History YMMV / MobileSuitGundamSEED

13th Jun '16 2:54:16 AM rafi
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* AmericansHateTingle: Flay is not as popular in the west as she is in the east. In Japan, she's generally well-liked. Which is ironic since the director had actually thought she'd be the type of character to appeal to Western audiences.

to:

* AmericansHateTingle: Flay is not as popular a BaseBreaker bordering on TheScrappy in the west as she is west. Not so much in the east. In Japan, where she's generally well-liked. Which is ironic since the director had actually thought she'd be the type of character to appeal to Western audiences.audiences, but things ended up reversed.


Added DiffLines:

* BaseBreaker:
** Flay is a polarizing character. She spends much of the first half of the show being a manipulative FillieFatale for a sympathetic-but-unjustified reason, and later attempts to make up for it. Either she was a JerkassWoobie who redeemed herself in the end, or a selfish asshole too wrapped up in her own problems to empathize with anyone else and her later actions were too little too late.
** Lacus, given her status as an idol singer, which some fans feel doesn't fit really well with the series' tone. Her turning out to have a large political clout while being a ''teenage'' idol singer also pushes SuspensionOfDisbelief a little thin even though such role is preferred over an idol. Her worst critics argue that she comes off as a hopelessly naive person who lucks her way into victory and power. However, there are plenty of people who feel that her portrayal as a Peacecroft-esque alternative political figure works fine, and even some who don't mind the IdolSinger angle.
** Kira himself. For everyone who hates the "Jesus Yamato" angle and finds it makes him overbearing and boring, there's someone who finds him awesome and likes that at least ''one'' Gundam protagonist is willing to actually stop killing people instead of doing it and then endlessly {{Wangst}}ing about it.
8th Jun '16 10:28:10 AM VyHuynh123
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* AmericansHateTingle: Flay is a BaseBreaker bordering on TheScrappy in the west. Not so much in Japan, where she's generally well-liked. Which is ironic since the director had actually thought she'd be the type of character to appeal to Western audiences, but things ended up reversed.

to:

* AmericansHateTingle: Flay is a BaseBreaker bordering on TheScrappy not as popular in the west. Not so much west as she is in the east. In Japan, where she's generally well-liked. Which is ironic since the director had actually thought she'd be the type of character to appeal to Western audiences, but things ended up reversed.audiences.



* BrokenBase: It is a Gundam AU series, after all.
8th Jun '16 10:26:07 AM VyHuynh123
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* BaseBreaker:
** Flay is a polarizing character. She spends much of the first half of the show being a manipulative FillieFatale for a sympathetic-but-unjustified reason, and later attempts to make up for it. Either she was a JerkassWoobie who redeemed herself in the end, or a selfish asshole too wrapped up in her own problems to empathize with anyone else and her later actions were too little too late.
** Lacus, given her status as an idol singer, which some fans feel doesn't fit really well with the series' tone. Her turning out to have a large political clout while being a ''teenage'' idol singer also pushes SuspensionOfDisbelief a little thin even though such role is preferred over an idol. Her worst critics argue that she comes off as a hopelessly naive person who lucks her way into victory and power. However, there are plenty of people who feel that her portrayal as a Peacecroft-esque alternative political figure works fine, and even some who don't mind the IdolSinger angle.
** Kira himself. For everyone who hates the "Jesus Yamato" angle and finds it makes him overbearing and boring, there's someone who finds him awesome and likes that at least ''one'' Gundam protagonist is willing to actually stop killing people instead of doing it and then endlessly {{Wangst}}ing about it.
24th May '16 1:40:21 PM drac0blade
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sort of. English-speaking fans often mistaken a brief conversation between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala as this. In one scene, the two discuss the fact that few Coordinator children are being born in the [=PLANTs=], and it's mentioned that some people have been advocating for {{Arranged Marriage}}s in order to encourage people to start families (including Clyne and Zala themselves -- this is exactly why Athrun and Lacus are engaged). This is a reference to the [[RippedFromTheHeadlines real-life social issue in Japan]] of an unsustainably low birth rate (literally; their population is getting smaller because more people are dying than are being born), but many English-speaking fans understandably miss the reference and believe it's an indication that Coordinators are becoming infertile due to their genetic manipulation, and are confused when the issue is never raised again.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Sort of. English-speaking fans often mistaken mistake a brief conversation between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala as this. In one scene, the two discuss the fact that few Coordinator children are being born in the [=PLANTs=], and it's mentioned that some people have been advocating for {{Arranged Marriage}}s in order to encourage people to start families (including Clyne and Zala themselves -- this is exactly why Athrun and Lacus are engaged). This is a reference to the [[RippedFromTheHeadlines real-life social issue in Japan]] of an unsustainably low birth rate (literally; their population is getting smaller because more people are dying than are being born), but many English-speaking fans understandably miss the reference and believe it's an indication that Coordinators are becoming infertile due to their genetic manipulation, and are confused when the issue is never raised again.
19th Feb '16 6:28:53 AM NativeJovian
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals that the Coordinators are a dying race. Due to genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why {{arranged marriage}}s between fertile individuals are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange Sort of. English-speaking fans often mistaken a brief conversation between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals as this. In one scene, the two discuss the fact that few Coordinator children are being born in the [=PLANTs=], and it's mentioned that some people have been advocating for {{Arranged Marriage}}s in order to encourage people to start families (including Clyne and Zala themselves -- this is exactly why Athrun and Lacus are engaged). This is a reference to the [[RippedFromTheHeadlines real-life social issue in Japan]] of an unsustainably low birth rate (literally; their population is getting smaller because more people are dying than are being born), but many English-speaking fans understandably miss the reference and believe it's an indication that Coordinators are a dying race. Due becoming infertile due to their genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why {{arranged marriage}}s between fertile individuals manipulation, and are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with confused when the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This issue is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.raised again.
18th Feb '16 8:41:30 PM Angeldeb82
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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The Remastered version is by and large the same, but there are small touch-ups and additions of scenes here and there. One notable instance is in episode 36 which adds a shot of [[CallForward Shinn and his family]] trying to flee the fighting. Probably the bigger change is in the ending themes: the first ending theme was remade and sounds somewhat different, while the original 2nd ending theme "River" by Tatsuya Ishii is omitted entirely and replaced with a new song by [[Music/YukiKajiura FictionJunction]]. Predictably, some fans of the original run have reacted much in the same vein as "Han shot first."
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals that the Coordinators are a dying race. Due to genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why {{arranged marriage}}s between fertile individuals are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.
* ViewerGenderConfusion: Tons of viewers thought Nicol was a girl based on his looks, voice, and gentle mannerisms. If Youtube comments are any indication, he's STILL being mistaken for a girl over 10 years after the series aired in the Remastered episodes.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The Remastered version is by and large the same, but there are small touch-ups and additions of scenes here and there. One notable instance is in episode 36 which adds a shot of [[CallForward Shinn and his family]] trying to flee the fighting. Probably the bigger change is in the ending themes: the first ending theme was remade and sounds somewhat different, while the original 2nd ending theme "River" by Tatsuya Ishii is omitted entirely and replaced with a new song by [[Music/YukiKajiura FictionJunction]]. Predictably, some fans of the original run have reacted much in the same vein as "Han shot first."
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals that the Coordinators are a dying race. Due to genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why {{arranged marriage}}s between fertile individuals are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.
* ViewerGenderConfusion: Tons of viewers thought Nicol was a girl based on his looks, voice, and gentle mannerisms. If Youtube comments are any indication, he's STILL being mistaken for a girl over 10 years after the series aired in the Remastered episodes.
18th Feb '16 8:39:48 PM Angeldeb82
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* ItsTheSameSoItSucks: This series is the AU series that is the most like the UC shows, due to the similarities between the Earth Alliance/ZAFT and Federation/Zeon conflicts, which might be a factor into why it's a frequent target from UC fans.

to:

* ItsTheSameSoItSucks: ItsTheSameNowItSucks: This series is the AU series that is the most like the UC shows, due to the similarities between the Earth Alliance/ZAFT and Federation/Zeon conflicts, which might be a factor into why it's a frequent target from UC fans.
18th Feb '16 8:38:45 PM Angeldeb82
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* CompleteMonster: {{The sociopath}}ic [[FantasticRacism Muruta Azrael]], the [[ANaziByAnyOtherName Nazi-like]] leader of the [[WesternTerrorists terrorist organization]] [[MugglePower Blue Cosmos]], wants to [[FinalSolution kill all]] [[GattacaBabies Coordinators]] (people created via genetic engineering) by [[WeaponsOfMassDestruction any means necessary]] and takes [[LaughingMad unholy delight]] in their wholesale slaughter, making [[BigBad Rau]] [[OmnicidalManiac Le Creuset]] seem [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds sympathetic]] . He's also [[HeManWomanHater misogynistic]], [[ManChild childish]], [[SmugSnake smug]], arrogant, condescending, and [[PsychopathicManchild enthusiastically psychotic]]. He believes entirely that his subordinates [[WeHaveReserves are expendable]] and willingly sacrifices millions of them just to see all the Coordinators [[NukeEm burn]]. A SoreLoser and a raging {{hypocrite}} who uses [[PsychoSerum drugs]] and brainwashing to turn children into {{Tykebomb}} {{Super Soldier}}s (referred to as the Extended), while claiming that genetic engineering is a sin (it's heavily implied that this is a case of DrivenByEnvy), Azrael is also TheManBehindTheMan to both the [[{{Eagleland}} Atlantic Federation]] and the Earth Alliance Forces, whom he manages to corrupt with his FantasticRacism, and goes out of his way to make sure that neutral nations are coopted or destroyed. Having started the war by launching a nuclear assault on the Coordinator homeland, Azrael hopes to [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill end it the same way]], and is willing to blow up his own men to do it. His [[FreudianExcuse sole motivation]] is that he was [[EvilIsPetty bullied by Coordinators]] [[DisproportionateRetribution when he was a kid]]. ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny'''s sidestory, ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDCE73Stargazer'' adds some further atrocities to Azrael's name, showing that he regularly [[WouldHurtAChild took children from their parents]], put them through TrainingFromHell and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy brainwashed them]] with anti-Coordinator propaganda in an effort at creating pilots who could match Coordinators in combat, without the [[PsychoSerum drug problems]] of the Extended. Other villains might kill more people, but when it comes to the spreading of sheer human misery, no other villain in the ''CE'' verse can hold a candle to Azrael.

to:

* CompleteMonster: {{The sociopath}}ic [[FantasticRacism Muruta Azrael]], the [[ANaziByAnyOtherName Nazi-like]] leader of the [[WesternTerrorists terrorist organization]] [[MugglePower Blue Cosmos]], wants to [[FinalSolution kill all]] [[GattacaBabies Coordinators]] (people created via genetic engineering) by [[WeaponsOfMassDestruction any means necessary]] and takes [[LaughingMad unholy delight]] in their wholesale slaughter, making [[BigBad Rau]] [[OmnicidalManiac Le Creuset]] seem [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds sympathetic]] . He's also [[HeManWomanHater misogynistic]], [[ManChild childish]], [[SmugSnake smug]], {{smug|Snake}}, arrogant, condescending, and [[PsychopathicManchild enthusiastically psychotic]]. He believes entirely that his subordinates [[WeHaveReserves are expendable]] and willingly sacrifices millions of them just to see all the Coordinators [[NukeEm burn]]. A SoreLoser and a raging {{hypocrite}} who uses [[PsychoSerum drugs]] and brainwashing to turn children into {{Tykebomb}} {{Super Soldier}}s (referred to as the Extended), while claiming that genetic engineering is a sin (it's heavily implied that this is a case of DrivenByEnvy), Azrael is also TheManBehindTheMan to both the [[{{Eagleland}} Atlantic Federation]] and the Earth Alliance Forces, whom he manages to corrupt with his FantasticRacism, and goes out of his way to make sure that neutral nations are coopted or destroyed. Having started the war by launching a nuclear assault on the Coordinator homeland, Azrael hopes to [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill end it the same way]], and is willing to blow up his own men to do it. His [[FreudianExcuse sole motivation]] is that he was [[EvilIsPetty bullied by Coordinators]] [[DisproportionateRetribution when he was a kid]]. ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny'''s sidestory, ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDCE73Stargazer'' adds some further atrocities to Azrael's name, showing that he regularly [[WouldHurtAChild took children from their parents]], put them through TrainingFromHell and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy brainwashed them]] with anti-Coordinator propaganda in an effort at creating pilots who could match Coordinators in combat, without the [[PsychoSerum drug problems]] of the Extended. Other villains might kill more people, but when it comes to the spreading of sheer human misery, no other villain in the ''CE'' verse can hold a candle to Azrael.



** Shani, Clotho, and Orga get the same treatment. Yes they're SlaveMooks forced into the war by Azrael, but that doesn't make them any less [[SociopathicSoldier vicious]] or [[AxeCrazy insane]].

to:

** Shani, Clotho, and Orga get the same treatment. Yes they're SlaveMooks forced into the war by Azrael, but that doesn't make them any less [[SociopathicSoldier vicious]] or [[AxeCrazy [[AxCrazy insane]].



* EvilIsCool: As the show's resident CharClone and MalevolentMaskedMan, everyone knew Le Creuset was going to be cool. Then the reveal comes in, and he turns out to be not only an AcePilot and a total {{Badass}}, but an impossible combination of Char, [[StarWars Emperor Palpatine]] and [[SilenceOfTheLambs Hannibal Lecter]]. Muruta Azrael also gets this treatment, both from fangirls who [[DracoInLeatherPants give him leather pants]], and others who find that his enthusiasm, [[LaughablyEvil dark sense of humour]], and status as a CompleteMonster with [[AttentionDeficitOohShiny ADHD]] make him a lot of fun to watch.

to:

* EvilIsCool: As the show's resident CharClone and MalevolentMaskedMan, everyone knew Le Creuset was going to be cool. Then the reveal comes in, and he turns out to be not only an AcePilot and a total {{Badass}}, but an impossible combination of Char, [[StarWars [[Franchise/StarWars Emperor Palpatine]] and [[SilenceOfTheLambs [[Film/TheSilenceOfTheLambs Hannibal Lecter]]. Muruta Azrael also gets this treatment, both from fangirls who [[DracoInLeatherPants give him leather pants]], and others who find that his enthusiasm, [[LaughablyEvil dark sense of humour]], and status as a CompleteMonster with [[AttentionDeficitOohShiny ADHD]] {{A|ttentionDeficitOohShiny}}DHD make him a lot of fun to watch.



** [[Creator/HiroYuki Clotho's Japanese voice actor]] dubbed [[WesternAnimation/SouthPark Stan Marsh]] for a while. Can you now say [[spoiler:[[TheyKilledKenny OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED CLOTHO!]]]] at the end of the series?

to:

** [[Creator/HiroYuki Clotho's Japanese voice actor]] dubbed [[WesternAnimation/SouthPark Stan Marsh]] for a while. Can you now say [[spoiler:[[TheyKilledKenny [[spoiler:[[TheyKilledKennyAgain OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED CLOTHO!]]]] at the end of the series?



* LoveToHate: Rau Le Creuset, who is incredibly popular due to his [[MagnificentBastard brilliance]], [[{{Badass}} badassery]], and [[BreakingSpeech ability to give a speech]].
* MagnificentBastard: Rau Le Creuset fits this trope incredibly well. He does have a VillainousBreakdown but not much of one, goes out with a smile, and most importantly is a fine ManipulativeBastard and {{Chessmaster}}. When you [[spoiler:talk the world into self-destruction, manipulating a pair of ''very'' high-functioning {{Smug Snake}}s in the process, you count]].

to:

* LoveToHate: Rau Le Creuset, who is incredibly popular due to his [[MagnificentBastard brilliance]], [[{{Badass}} badassery]], {{badass}}ery, and [[BreakingSpeech [[BreakThemByTalking ability to give a speech]].
* MagnificentBastard: Rau Le Creuset fits this trope incredibly well. He does have a VillainousBreakdown but not much of one, goes out with a smile, and most importantly is a fine ManipulativeBastard and {{Chessmaster}}.TheChessmaster. When you [[spoiler:talk the world into self-destruction, manipulating a pair of ''very'' high-functioning {{Smug Snake}}s in the process, you count]].



** It's easy to lose respect for Rau Le Creuset [[spoiler: when he nonchalantly uses his [=DRAGOONs=] to kill Flay Alster, who had by this point redeemed herself.]]

to:

** It's easy to lose respect for Rau Le Creuset [[spoiler: when he nonchalantly uses his [=DRAGOONs=] to kill Flay Alster, who had by this point redeemed herself.]] herself]].



*** If you're charitable to Lacus, she fits in like a hand to a glove. She's sheltered and ultra naive. -- but when the chips come down, she does her best to gather her resolve and do what she can to help. Only once she breaks down, and that's when [[spoiler: she cries in Kira's arms while telling him about her dad's death.]]

to:

*** If you're charitable to Lacus, she fits in like a hand to a glove. She's sheltered and ultra naive. -- but when the chips come down, she does her best to gather her resolve and do what she can to help. Only once she breaks down, and that's when [[spoiler: she cries in Kira's arms while telling him about her dad's death.]]death]].



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals that the Coordinators are a dying race. Due to genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why [[ArrangedMarriage arranged marriages]] between fertile individuals are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: An exchange between Siegel Clyne and Patrick Zala reveals that the Coordinators are a dying race. Due to genetic modification, later generations of Coordinators have a high risk of being sterile, which explain why [[ArrangedMarriage arranged marriages]] {{arranged marriage}}s between fertile individuals are encouraged. The situation is so bad that it's actually a state secret. Clyne wants to reconcile with the Naturals to save their race while Zala refuse to do so, believing a cure could be found one day. This is never brought in the series again or in ''Gundam SEED Destiny''.
31st Dec '15 2:19:48 AM SpectralTime
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** Kira himself. Some like Jesus Yamato and think it's excellent growth. Others find him boring.

to:

** Kira himself. Some like Jesus Yamato For everyone who hates the "Jesus Yamato" angle and think it's excellent growth. Others find finds it makes him boring.overbearing and boring, there's someone who finds him awesome and likes that at least ''one'' Gundam protagonist is willing to actually stop killing people instead of doing it and then endlessly {{Wangst}}ing about it.
31st Dec '15 1:42:10 AM MagBas
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** Lacus, given her status as an idol singer, which some fans feel doesn't fit really well with the series' tone. Her turning out to have a large political clout while being a ''teenage'' idol singer also pushes SuspensionOfDisbelief a little thin even though such role is preferred over an idol. Her worst critics argue that she comes off as a hopelessly naive PuritySue who lucks her way into victory and power. However, there are plenty of people who feel that her portrayal as a Peacecroft-esque alternative political figure works fine, and even some who don't mind the IdolSinger angle.
** Kira himself. Some like Jesus Yamato and think it's excellent growth. Others find him a boring CanonSue.

to:

** Lacus, given her status as an idol singer, which some fans feel doesn't fit really well with the series' tone. Her turning out to have a large political clout while being a ''teenage'' idol singer also pushes SuspensionOfDisbelief a little thin even though such role is preferred over an idol. Her worst critics argue that she comes off as a hopelessly naive PuritySue person who lucks her way into victory and power. However, there are plenty of people who feel that her portrayal as a Peacecroft-esque alternative political figure works fine, and even some who don't mind the IdolSinger angle.
** Kira himself. Some like Jesus Yamato and think it's excellent growth. Others find him a boring CanonSue.him boring.



* DieForOurShip: If you like Kira/Lacus, Flay is a rapist whore. If you like Kira/Flay, Lacus is a MarySue. ''There is NO middle ground''.

to:

* DieForOurShip: If you like Kira/Lacus, Flay is a rapist whore. If you like Kira/Flay, Lacus Lacus is a MarySue.annoying. ''There is NO middle ground''.



*** If you're charitable to Lacus, she fits in like a hand to a glove. She's sheltered, ultra naive and kind of a PuritySue -- but when the chips come down, she does her best to gather her resolve and do what she can to help. Only once she breaks down, and that's when [[spoiler: she cries in Kira's arms while telling him about her dad's death.]]

to:

*** If you're charitable to Lacus, she fits in like a hand to a glove. She's sheltered, sheltered and ultra naive and kind of a PuritySue naive. -- but when the chips come down, she does her best to gather her resolve and do what she can to help. Only once she breaks down, and that's when [[spoiler: she cries in Kira's arms while telling him about her dad's death.]]
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