History YMMV / MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty

11th Jun '18 4:19:01 AM PF
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* VindicatedByHistory: Though its gameplay and graphics were praised, the storyline was deemed convoluted at best and exploitative at a few points. However, as years go by, more are finding it to be an excellent early example of post-modernism in the video game medium, as well as a decent deconstruction of ButThouMust games. These two traits would later be championed by the critically acclaimed ''Franchise/{{Bioshock}}'' series. In addition, critically acclaimed games that act as a {{Deconstruction}} of the medium such as ''VideoGame/SpecOpsTheLine'' and ''VideoGame/TheStanleyParable'' have only boosted this game's vindication. As these sorts of games become more popular, ''Metal Gear Solid 2'' has also become much more accepted, and is even considered to be the first example of a "game about games".

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: Though its gameplay and graphics were praised, the storyline was deemed convoluted at best and exploitative at a few points. However, as years go by, more are finding it to be an excellent early example of post-modernism in the video game medium, as well as a decent deconstruction of ButThouMust games. These two traits would later be championed by the critically acclaimed ''Franchise/{{Bioshock}}'' ''Franchise/BioShock'' series. In addition, critically acclaimed games that act as a {{Deconstruction}} of the medium such as ''VideoGame/SpecOpsTheLine'' and ''VideoGame/TheStanleyParable'' have only boosted this game's vindication. As these sorts of games become more popular, ''Metal Gear Solid 2'' has also become much more accepted, and is even considered to be the first example of a "game about games".
23rd Apr '18 1:54:49 PM PF
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** An ahead-of-its-time postmodernist deconstruction of the recycled tropes of fiction and the escapist nature of video games, married to a stirring examination of the themes of life, love, and building a better future... as the sequel to a popular, story-heavy but relatively-straightforward stealth-action game. The creators predicted this trope, so said premise was ''deliberately hidden'' by the marketing lead-up, to ensure that people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in the game would still buy and play it. Unfortunately, subverted expectations can be even ''more'' alienating than just an off-kilter premise.

to:

** An ahead-of-its-time postmodernist deconstruction of the recycled tropes of fiction and the escapist nature of video games, married to a stirring examination of the themes of life, love, and building a better future... as the sequel to a popular, story-heavy but relatively-straightforward stealth-action game. The creators predicted this trope, this, so said premise was ''deliberately hidden'' by the marketing lead-up, to ensure that people who otherwise wouldn't be interested in the game would still buy and play it. Unfortunately, subverted expectations can be even ''more'' alienating than just an off-kilter premise.



'''Rosemary''': You '''''[[BigWhat WHAT?]]'''''

to:

'''Rosemary''': '''Rosemary:''' You '''''[[BigWhat WHAT?]]'''''



** The M9 tranquilizer handgun, or the silenced SOCOM. Take your pick. Both are capable of instantly incapacitating headshots from distances that only a sniper rifle would remain accurate at in RealLife, the ammo is extremely common, and abusing them almost guarantees you never being seen. The M9 is arguably the better of the two since you don't aim it down the iron sights, meaning the gun takes up less of the screen in first-person view, and the laser is much easier to line up shots with than the SOCOM's ironsights. Plus, your endgame status is better if you don't kill anyone, and you get extra dog tags from the bosses to unlock goodies for NewGamePlus. Extra points since it's a DiscOneNuke. The silencer for the SOCOM comes literally about an hour into the game later though. Subverted on higher difficulty settings, where the tranquilising effect doesn't last pissing time.



** The M9 tranquilizer handgun, or the silenced SOCOM. Take your pick. Both are capable of instantly incapacitating headshots from distances that only a sniper rifle would remain accurate at in RealLife, the ammo is extremely common, and abusing them almost guarantees you never being seen. The M9 is arguably the better of the two since you don't aim it down the iron sights, meaning the gun takes up less of the screen in first-person view, and the laser is much easier to line up shots with than the SOCOM's ironsights. Plus, your endgame status is better if you don't kill anyone, and you get extra dog tags from the bosses to unlock goodies for NewGamePlus. Extra points since it's a DiscOneNuke. The silencer for the SOCOM comes literally about an hour into the game later though. Subverted on higher difficulty settings, where the tranquilising effect doesn't last pissing time.



** Solidus Snake's political extremism and secessionist views aren't too dissimilar from the way the political climate of the U.S. has been during the 2010s. Even better: they think they're continuing on in the spirit of the Founding Fathers while [[MisaimedFandom having nothing in common with them]], and have named themselves after the Boston Tea Party, in the game's case, the perpetrators. In 2009. Kojima: calling the Tea Party a decade in advance.
** Speaking of politics: in 2001, it was incredibly far-flung speculating (bordering on tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorizing) to suggest that it was realistic that a shadowy, omniscient cabal of post-nationalist boogeymen could manipulate information on the Internet to control geopolitics at such a massive scale as rigging a Presidential election and making the sitting President a stooge for their interests instead of the people of America's interests. Come the 2016 election, this is a topic that's on the tongue of many Americans. Note also the existential horror the game rings out of the loss and theft of personal identity: Raiden's identity is stolen out from under him, Solidus steals Snake's identity, etc. This was at a time when Internet-enabled identity theft and fraud was just beginning to become a Big Deal for people outside the tech industry, since most people's personal information was not on the Internet yet. These days, thanks to {{Friending Network}}s and social media, massive personal data breaches happen every few months or so, forcing everyone to wonder about whether we've let the proliferation of personal information hitting the Internet get out of hand.
*** Crossing somewhat into HilariousInHindsight meta territory, FBI head Robert Mueller's investigation into the 2016 elections indicted thirteen Russian nationals that were aiding the Trump campaign through data harvesting and social media manipulation. Paul Eiding would do a reading of the report in Colonel Campbell's voice, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWR-zuiIFvQ just to drive the point home]].
*** And then there is 2018 scandal of British tech firm Cambridge Analytica being revealed to have taken data from millions of Facebook users to influence elections. [[https://www.gamesradar.com/how-metal-gear-solid-manipulated-its-players-warning-us-of-an-age-of-fake-news-cambridge-analytica-and-data-surveillance/ This article]] even looks at how ''Sons of Liberty'' and other games in the MGS series all but predicted this technological near-dystopia.

to:

** Solidus Snake's political extremism and secessionist views aren't too dissimilar from the way the political climate of the U.S. has been during in the 2010s. Even better: they think they're continuing on in the spirit of the Founding Fathers while [[MisaimedFandom having nothing in common with them]], and have named themselves after the Boston Tea Party, in the game's case, the perpetrators. In 2009. Kojima: calling the Tea Party a decade in advance.
** Speaking of politics: in In 2001, it was incredibly far-flung speculating (bordering on tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorizing) to suggest that it was realistic that a shadowy, omniscient cabal of post-nationalist boogeymen could manipulate information on the Internet to control geopolitics at such a massive scale as rigging a Presidential election and making the sitting President a stooge for their interests instead of the people of America's interests. Come the 2016 election, this is a topic that's on the tongue of many Americans. Note also the existential horror the game rings out of the loss and theft of personal identity: Raiden's identity is stolen out from under him, Solidus steals Snake's identity, etc. This was at a time when Internet-enabled identity theft and fraud was just beginning to become a Big Deal big deal for people outside the tech industry, since most people's personal information was not on the Internet yet. These days, thanks to {{Friending Network}}s and social media, massive personal data breaches happen every few months or so, forcing everyone to wonder about whether we've let the proliferation of personal information hitting the Internet get out of hand.
*** ** Crossing somewhat into HilariousInHindsight meta territory, FBI head Robert Mueller's investigation into the 2016 elections indicted thirteen Russian nationals that were aiding the Trump campaign through data harvesting and social media manipulation. Paul Eiding would do a reading of the report in Colonel Campbell's voice, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWR-zuiIFvQ just to drive the point home]].
*** And then there is 2018 scandal of ** In 2018, it was revealed that British tech firm Cambridge Analytica being revealed to have taken took data from millions of Facebook users to influence elections. [[https://www.gamesradar.com/how-metal-gear-solid-manipulated-its-players-warning-us-of-an-age-of-fake-news-cambridge-analytica-and-data-surveillance/ This article]] even looks at how ''Sons of Liberty'' ''Metal Gear Solid 2'' and other games in the MGS series all but predicted this technological near-dystopia.



** Snake's stern warnings about the dangers of "turning war into a video game" can seem even more chilling today than they did in 2001, what with the advent of drone warfare.

to:

** Snake's stern warnings about the dangers of "turning war into a video game" can seem even more chilling today than they did in 2001, what with thanks to the advent of drone warfare.



** In a less horrible, but more meta way, almost everything that got this game hated back when it came out is now standard. Deconstructing video game tropes and linearity has gotten pretty popular, using games as a storytelling platform is becoming the standard, soapboxing along with {{mind screw}}s is extremely popular amongst the more artsy and indie games, which gets them love for it, and sodomizing the fourth wall is no longer taboo, but almost expected. Even changing your protagonists has become a far more popular thing, although usually being more upfront with it.

to:

** In a less horrible, horrible but more meta way, almost everything that got this game hated back when it came out is now standard. Deconstructing video game tropes and linearity has gotten pretty popular, using games as a storytelling platform is becoming the standard, soapboxing along with {{mind screw}}s is extremely popular amongst the more artsy and indie games, which gets them love for it, and sodomizing the fourth wall is no longer taboo, but almost expected. Even changing your protagonists has become a far more popular thing, although usually being more upfront with it.
16th Apr '18 6:56:54 AM DensetsuNoKaboom
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* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: In the Plant mission, your support team can get on your nerves.

to:

* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: AnnoyingVideoGameHelper:
**
In the Plant mission, your support team can get on your nerves.nerves.
** Toward the end of the game, [[spoiler:the Colonel]] will call you every few ''seconds'', and lines will quickly begin to repeat. Of course, by this time [[spoiler:it's [[MissionControlIsOffItsMeds debatable]] whether he can be called a video game ''helper''...]]
4th Apr '18 4:22:36 PM KizunaTallis
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** Snake's stern warnings about the dangers of "turning war into a video game" can seem even more chilling today that they did in 2001, with the advent of drone warfare.

to:

** Snake's stern warnings about the dangers of "turning war into a video game" can seem even more chilling today that than they did in 2001, what with the advent of drone warfare.



** The President grabbing Raiden by the crotch is uncannily like some of the weirder stuff Donald Trump was accused of during his own successful presidential campaign.

to:

** The President grabbing Raiden by the crotch while mistaking Raiden for the female Olga is uncannily like some of the weirder stuff time Donald Trump was accused of during his own successful presidential campaign.said on a recorded video from ''Access Hollywood'' that he would grab women by their crotches.
4th Apr '18 4:07:56 PM KizunaTallis
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** Solidus Snake's political extremism and secessionist views aren't too dissimilar from the current climate in the U.S. Even better: they think they're continuing on in the spirit of the Founding Fathers while [[MisaimedFandom having nothing in common with them]], and have named themselves after the Boston Tea Party, in the game's case, the perpetrators. In 2009. Kojima: calling the Tea Party a decade in advance.
** Speaking of politics: in 2001, it was incredibly far-flung speculating (bordering on tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorizing) to suggest that it was realistic that a shadowy, omniscient cabal of post-nationalist boogeymen could manipulate information on the Internet to control geopolitics at such a massive scale as rigging a Presidential election and making the sitting President a stooge for their interests instead of the people of America's interests. Come the 2016 election, this is a topic that's on the tongue of Americans pretty much every day. Note also the existential horror the game rings out of the loss and theft of personal identity: Raiden's identity is stolen out from under him, Solidus steals Snake's identity, etc. This was at a time when Internet-enhanced identity theft and fraud was just beginning to become a Big Deal for people outside the tech industry, since most people's personal information was not on the Internet yet. These days, massive personal data breaches happen every few months or so, forcing everyone to wonder about whether we've let the proliferation of personal information hitting the Internet get out of hand.

to:

** Solidus Snake's political extremism and secessionist views aren't too dissimilar from the current way the political climate in of the U.S. has been during the 2010s. Even better: they think they're continuing on in the spirit of the Founding Fathers while [[MisaimedFandom having nothing in common with them]], and have named themselves after the Boston Tea Party, in the game's case, the perpetrators. In 2009. Kojima: calling the Tea Party a decade in advance.
** Speaking of politics: in 2001, it was incredibly far-flung speculating (bordering on tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorizing) to suggest that it was realistic that a shadowy, omniscient cabal of post-nationalist boogeymen could manipulate information on the Internet to control geopolitics at such a massive scale as rigging a Presidential election and making the sitting President a stooge for their interests instead of the people of America's interests. Come the 2016 election, this is a topic that's on the tongue of Americans pretty much every day.many Americans. Note also the existential horror the game rings out of the loss and theft of personal identity: Raiden's identity is stolen out from under him, Solidus steals Snake's identity, etc. This was at a time when Internet-enhanced Internet-enabled identity theft and fraud was just beginning to become a Big Deal for people outside the tech industry, since most people's personal information was not on the Internet yet. These days, thanks to {{Friending Network}}s and social media, massive personal data breaches happen every few months or so, forcing everyone to wonder about whether we've let the proliferation of personal information hitting the Internet get out of hand.hand.
*** Crossing somewhat into HilariousInHindsight meta territory, FBI head Robert Mueller's investigation into the 2016 elections indicted thirteen Russian nationals that were aiding the Trump campaign through data harvesting and social media manipulation. Paul Eiding would do a reading of the report in Colonel Campbell's voice, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWR-zuiIFvQ just to drive the point home]].
*** And then there is 2018 scandal of British tech firm Cambridge Analytica being revealed to have taken data from millions of Facebook users to influence elections. [[https://www.gamesradar.com/how-metal-gear-solid-manipulated-its-players-warning-us-of-an-age-of-fake-news-cambridge-analytica-and-data-surveillance/ This article]] even looks at how ''Sons of Liberty'' and other games in the MGS series all but predicted this technological near-dystopia.



** In a less horrible, but more meta way, almost everything that got this game hated back when it came out is now standard. Deconstructing video game tropes and linearity has gotten pretty popular, using games as a storytelling platform is becoming the standard, soapboxing along with mindfucks is extremely popular amongst the more artsy and indie games, which gets them love for it, and sodomizing the fourth wall is no longer taboo, but almost expected. Even changing your protagonists has become a far more popular thing, although usually being more upfront with it.

to:

** In a less horrible, but more meta way, almost everything that got this game hated back when it came out is now standard. Deconstructing video game tropes and linearity has gotten pretty popular, using games as a storytelling platform is becoming the standard, soapboxing along with mindfucks {{mind screw}}s is extremely popular amongst the more artsy and indie games, which gets them love for it, and sodomizing the fourth wall is no longer taboo, but almost expected. Even changing your protagonists has become a far more popular thing, although usually being more upfront with it.



** While [[spoiler:the Colonel's AI is malfunctioning]], he may have this to day

to:

** While [[spoiler:the Colonel's AI is malfunctioning]], he may have this to daysay:



** Several articles (such as [[http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/how-metal-gear-solid-2-foretold-our-post-truth-future-w450225 this one]]) described the game as eerily prescient of how information is disseminated and consumed in TheNewTens, the era of "fake news", "post-truth politics" and extreme political polarization.
* VindicatedByHistory: Though its gameplay and graphics were praised, the storyline was deemed convoluted at best and exploitative at a few points. However, as years go by, [[BrokenBase many]] are finding it to be an excellent early example of post-modernism in the video game medium, as well as a decent deconstruction of ButThouMust games. These two traits would later be championed by the critically acclaimed ''[=BioShock=]''. In addition, critically acclaimed games that act as a {{Deconstruction}} of the medium such as ''VideoGame/SpecOpsTheLine'' and ''The Stanley Parable'' have only boosted this game's vindication. As these sorts of games become more popular, ''Metal Gear Solid 2'' has also become much more accepted, and is even considered to be the first example of a "game about games".

to:

** Several articles (such as [[http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/how-metal-gear-solid-2-foretold-our-post-truth-future-w450225 this one]]) one]] and [[https://www.gamesradar.com/how-metal-gear-solid-manipulated-its-players-warning-us-of-an-age-of-fake-news-cambridge-analytica-and-data-surveillance/ this]]) described the game as eerily prescient of how information is disseminated and consumed in TheNewTens, the era of "fake news", "post-truth politics" and politics", "alternative facts", extreme political polarization.
polarization, and private organizations using people's personal data on social media to influence elections.
* VindicatedByHistory: Though its gameplay and graphics were praised, the storyline was deemed convoluted at best and exploitative at a few points. However, as years go by, [[BrokenBase many]] more are finding it to be an excellent early example of post-modernism in the video game medium, as well as a decent deconstruction of ButThouMust games. These two traits would later be championed by the critically acclaimed ''[=BioShock=]''. ''Franchise/{{Bioshock}}'' series. In addition, critically acclaimed games that act as a {{Deconstruction}} of the medium such as ''VideoGame/SpecOpsTheLine'' and ''The Stanley Parable'' ''VideoGame/TheStanleyParable'' have only boosted this game's vindication. As these sorts of games become more popular, ''Metal Gear Solid 2'' has also become much more accepted, and is even considered to be the first example of a "game about games".
25th Jan '18 5:39:01 AM PF
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* ValuesDissonance: Part of the reason for Raiden's lukewarm reception in the West. In Japan, there isn't nearly as much stigma against [[{{Bishonen}} men with feminine features]], and it's actually very traditional to cast them in heroic roles. This also counts in the west as of the end of the 00s, when the EmoTeen trend died out, and its feminine aspects got rolled into mainstream fashion.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Part of the reason for Raiden's lukewarm reception in the West. In Japan, there isn't nearly as much stigma against [[{{Bishonen}} men with feminine features]], and it's actually very traditional to cast them in heroic roles. This also counts in the west as of the end of the 00s, when the EmoTeen trend died out, and its feminine aspects got rolled into mainstream fashion.



** Likewise, Rose won't shut up about her relationship problems, even in places where she knows Raiden is in mortal danger.

to:

** Likewise, Rose won't shut up about her relationship problems, even in places where she knows Raiden is in mortal danger.
28th Dec '17 12:35:00 PM lilithmercy
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* ValuesDissonance: Part of the reason for Raiden's lukewarm reception in the West. In Japan, there isn't nearly as much stigma against [[{{Bishonen}} men with feminine features]], and it's actually very traditional to cast them in heroic roles.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Part of the reason for Raiden's lukewarm reception in the West. In Japan, there isn't nearly as much stigma against [[{{Bishonen}} men with feminine features]], and it's actually very traditional to cast them in heroic roles. This also counts in the west as of the end of the 00s, when the EmoTeen trend died out, and its feminine aspects got rolled into mainstream fashion.
24th Nov '17 9:37:37 AM nombretomado
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** The game was written in 1999. Featuring an extremely militaristic older president named George. It even throws [[ConspiracyTheory conspiracy theorists]] a bone, seeing as he actually ''did'' attack Manhattan.

to:

** The game was written in 1999. Featuring an extremely militaristic older president named George. It even throws [[ConspiracyTheory [[UsefulNotes/ConspiracyTheories conspiracy theorists]] a bone, seeing as he actually ''did'' attack Manhattan.
19th Nov '17 7:00:59 PM chuggaafan1
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Added DiffLines:

** While [[spoiler:the Colonel's AI is malfunctioning]], he may have this to day
--> "[[{{VideoGame/Undertale}} Don't you have anything better to do]] with your time?"
18th Nov '17 7:27:01 AM KJShea
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** OneSceneWonder: [[spoiler:Liquid Ocelot]] only appears once every chapter, but he owns every scene he's in.

to:

** * OneSceneWonder: [[spoiler:Liquid Ocelot]] only appears once every chapter, but he owns every scene he's in.
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