History YMMV / MalazanBookOfTheFallen

22nd Nov '16 9:47:34 PM 8088ben
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CompleteMonster: Bidithal is [[EvilOldFolks an elderly member]] of the rebellious army the Whirlwind and its most powerful High Mage who gets away with his atrocities due to his power and high position. He has a disturbing taste for [[{{Lolicon}} little girls]] that he rapes and performs female circumcision on. In his darkest act, Bidithal captures the adopted daughter of the Whirlwind's leader, Felisin the Younger, and rapes her. He tells her he will "drink all the pleasure from your precious body, leaving naught but bitterness, naught but dead places within." Even the barbarian AntiHero Karsa Orlong finds Bidithal an utter blot on humanity as a whole and relishes a chance to force Bidithal to [[KarmicDeath choke on his pleasure]].

to:

* CompleteMonster: Bidithal is [[EvilOldFolks an elderly member]] of the rebellious army the Whirlwind and its most powerful High Mage who gets away with his atrocities due to his power and high position. He has a disturbing taste for [[{{Lolicon}} little girls]] that he rapes and performs female circumcision on. In his darkest act, Bidithal captures the adopted daughter of the Whirlwind's leader, Felisin the Younger, and rapes her. He tells her he will "drink all the pleasure from your precious body, leaving naught but bitterness, naught but dead places within." Even the barbarian AntiHero Karsa Orlong finds Bidithal an utter blot on humanity as a whole and relishes a chance to force Bidithal to to [[GroinAttack choke on]] [[KarmicDeath choke on his pleasure]].
26th Oct '16 5:34:16 PM Derkhan
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ArchivePanic: The series consists of ten main volumes (each of which is a {{Doorstopper}} in its own right), a separate series of six novels by co-creator Ian Cameron Esslemont, a [[{{Prequel}} prequel]] trilogy two-thirds published as of 2016, another prequel trilogy by Ian Cameron Esslemont (of which one volume has been published as of 2016), and six novellas. All in all, that's 25 books, with more on the way. That, and the fact that there are two authors writing in the verse, is enough to trigger CommitmentAnxiety in the casual reader.
24th Aug '16 9:39:30 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* OlderThanTheyThink: The series owes a considerable debt to ''TheBlackCompany.''

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: The series owes a considerable debt to ''TheBlackCompany.''Literature/TheBlackCompany.''
11th Jul '16 3:35:23 PM CassandraLeo
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** It is, however, worth noting that Orlong is intended to be a deconstruction of the BarbarianHero archetype and is not intended to be sympathetic (at least at first), as per WordOfGod.

to:

** It is, however, worth noting that Orlong is intended to be a deconstruction of the BarbarianHero archetype and is not intended to be sympathetic (at least at first), as per WordOfGod. As for his tendency to rape people, this goes away as he undergoes CharacterDevelopment. Even fans of the character don't find him sympathetic when first introduced; it's only later in his character arc that he becomes likeable to his fans.



* CrazyAwesome: Karsa Orlong, Iskaral Pust, Tehol & Bugg, Second Seguleh, Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, probably all sapers...
** [[spoiler: As we see in TheCrippledGod, after becoming Master of the Deck, Captain Ganoes isn't afraid to come to talk to dangerous enemy commander, just to see what person she is, and piss her off just by talking... and he gets away with it!]]

to:

* CrazyAwesome: Karsa Orlong, Iskaral Pust, Tehol & Bugg, Second Seguleh, Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, probably all sapers...
sappers...
** [[spoiler: As we see in TheCrippledGod, after becoming Master of the Deck, Captain Ganoes isn't afraid to come to talk to a dangerous enemy commander, just to see what person she is, and piss her off just by talking... and he gets away with it!]]
11th Jul '16 3:32:30 PM CassandraLeo
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[spoiler:Mayen abuses Feather Witch, and the abuse is heavily implied to be sexual in nature. However, Mayen herself is the victim of rape at the hands of Rhulad, who himself may very well be too insane to realise that what he's doing is wrong at first. He eventually comes to a HeelRealization and both makes Mayen stop her abuse of Feather Witch and frees Mayen of her forced betrothal to him, but by this point she has already crossed the DespairEventHorizon and after being chased by Letherii who apparently intend to rape her is ultimately DrivenToSuicide.]]
** [[spoiler:Feather Witch also qualifies; her abuse at the hands of Mayen qualifies her for the Woobie part, while her appalling treatment of Udinaas, who is hopelessly in love with her, qualifies for her the Jerkass part. It's subtly hinted at one point that her treatment of Udinaas may be due to her unwillingness to reciprocate his affections, but it's not firmly established one way or the other, even in her internal monologue.]]



* TheScrappy: The Mhbye in ''Memories of Ice.'' Depending on who you ask, Karsa Orlong and/or Kruppe as well.

to:

* TheScrappy: The Mhbye Mhybe in ''Memories of Ice.'' Depending on who you ask, Karsa Orlong and/or Kruppe as well.



** Sums up everyone's behavior around Kallor. First they let the psycho into their army, then they mock and belittle him. Brilliant move, people.
** Sorry/Apsalar. Multiple people have pointed out to her that [[spoiler: abandoning Cutter wasn't a great idea. Anyone who's moderately perceptive can spot either of their broken hearts immediately]].

to:

** Sums up everyone's behavior around Kallor. First they let the psycho into their army, then they [[BullyingADragon mock and belittle him.him]]. Brilliant move, people.
** Sorry/Apsalar. Multiple people have pointed out to her that [[spoiler: abandoning Cutter wasn't a great idea. Anyone who's moderately perceptive can spot either of their broken hearts immediately]].immediately]].
** Basically anyone who mouths off to Karsa Orlong. The guy's a giant barbarian. What did you expect to happen?
20th Jun '16 4:02:13 PM CassandraLeo
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Felisin Paran. Sure, she's abrasive and [[spoiler:ultimately leads a fanatical rebellion]], but [[spoiler:she was [[MadeASlave sold into slavery]] by her own sister (to protect her from the Malazan Empire's cull of the nobility, but Felisin seems to have regarded it as a FateWorseThanDeath), prostituted herself to protect herself and her friends as a result, lost several of those friends in her escape from the Otataral mines, became the mind slave of an insane goddess who wants to wipe out humanity, and is ultimately killed by the aforementioned sister, who ''never even realises that she was fighting Felisin''. Her whole life is basically one big TraumaCongaLine and ultimately a particularly nasty case of ShootTheShaggyDog.]]

to:

** Felisin Paran. Sure, she's abrasive and [[spoiler:ultimately leads a fanatical rebellion]], but [[spoiler:she was [[MadeASlave sold into slavery]] by her own sister (to protect her from the Malazan Empire's cull of the nobility, but Felisin seems to have regarded it as a FateWorseThanDeath), prostituted herself to protect herself and her friends as a result, lost several of those friends in her escape from the Otataral mines, became the mind slave of an insane goddess who wants to wipe out humanity, and is ultimately killed by the aforementioned sister, who ''never even realises that she was fighting Felisin''. Felisin'']]. Her whole life is basically one big TraumaCongaLine and ultimately a [[spoiler:a particularly nasty case of ShootTheShaggyDog.]]ShootTheShaggyDog]].



** [[spoiler:Challice is unfaithful to her husband - it's implied serially - but it's also made plain that this is because she's been cajoled by the strictures of her society and family pressures into a loveless ArrangedMarriage with a man who's a bit too much of a {{Jerkass}} for her to ever love. She clearly feels trapped by the norms of Darujhistan nobility and it's indicated that the main reason she cheats is because it's the only thing that makes her feel alive. She talks about her plans of escaping, but inwardly she suspects they will never happen. Ultimately, when Darjuhistan comes under siege by Hounds of Shadow, she is so overwhelmed by fear that she ends up killing herself, not aware that her husband has been killed in a duel - by her lover, no less, albeit for reasons of {{revenge}} that have little to do with her marriage. Whether she even counts as a {{jerkass}} depends on [[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery how sympathetic you are to her adultery]], but her {{woobie}} status is pretty difficult to dispute.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:Challice Challice is unfaithful [[spoiler:unfaithful to her husband - it's implied serially - but it's also made plain that this is because she's been cajoled by the strictures of her society and family pressures into a loveless ArrangedMarriage with a man who's a bit too much of a {{Jerkass}} for her to ever love. She clearly feels trapped by the norms of Darujhistan nobility and it's indicated that the main reason she cheats is because it's the only thing that makes her feel alive. She talks about her plans of escaping, but inwardly she suspects they will never happen. Ultimately, when Darjuhistan comes under siege by Hounds of Shadow, she is so overwhelmed by fear that she ends up killing herself, not aware that her husband has been killed in a duel - by her lover, no less, albeit for reasons of {{revenge}} that have little to do with her marriage. marriage]]. Whether she even counts as a {{jerkass}} depends on [[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery how sympathetic you are to [[spoiler:[[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery her adultery]], adultery]]]], but her {{woobie}} status is pretty difficult to dispute.]]
20th Jun '16 4:00:37 PM CassandraLeo
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Felisin Paran.

to:

** Felisin Paran. Sure, she's abrasive and [[spoiler:ultimately leads a fanatical rebellion]], but [[spoiler:she was [[MadeASlave sold into slavery]] by her own sister (to protect her from the Malazan Empire's cull of the nobility, but Felisin seems to have regarded it as a FateWorseThanDeath), prostituted herself to protect herself and her friends as a result, lost several of those friends in her escape from the Otataral mines, became the mind slave of an insane goddess who wants to wipe out humanity, and is ultimately killed by the aforementioned sister, who ''never even realises that she was fighting Felisin''. Her whole life is basically one big TraumaCongaLine and ultimately a particularly nasty case of ShootTheShaggyDog.]]



** [[spoiler:Challice is unfaithful to her husband - it's implied serially - but it's also made plain that this is because she's been cajoled by the strictures of her society into a loveless ArrangedMarriage with a man who's a bit too much of a {{Jerkass}} for her to ever love. She clearly feels trapped by the strictures of her society and it's indicated that the main reason she cheats is because it's the only thing that makes her feel alive. She talks about her plans of escaping, but inwardly she suspects they will never happen. Ultimately, when Darjuhistan comes under siege by Hounds of Shadow she is so overwhelmed by fear that she ends up killing herself, not aware that her husband has been killed in a duel - by her lover, no less, albeit for reasons of {{revenge}} that have little to do with her marriage. Whether she even counts as a {{jerkass}} depends on [[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery how sympathetic you are to her adultery]], but her {{woobie}} status is pretty difficult to dispute.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:Challice is unfaithful to her husband - it's implied serially - but it's also made plain that this is because she's been cajoled by the strictures of her society and family pressures into a loveless ArrangedMarriage with a man who's a bit too much of a {{Jerkass}} for her to ever love. She clearly feels trapped by the strictures norms of her society Darujhistan nobility and it's indicated that the main reason she cheats is because it's the only thing that makes her feel alive. She talks about her plans of escaping, but inwardly she suspects they will never happen. Ultimately, when Darjuhistan comes under siege by Hounds of Shadow Shadow, she is so overwhelmed by fear that she ends up killing herself, not aware that her husband has been killed in a duel - by her lover, no less, albeit for reasons of {{revenge}} that have little to do with her marriage. Whether she even counts as a {{jerkass}} depends on [[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery how sympathetic you are to her adultery]], but her {{woobie}} status is pretty difficult to dispute.]]
20th Jun '16 3:56:15 PM CassandraLeo
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** [[spoiler:Challice is unfaithful to her husband - it's implied serially - but it's also made plain that this is because she's been cajoled by the strictures of her society into a loveless ArrangedMarriage with a man who's a bit too much of a {{Jerkass}} for her to ever love. She clearly feels trapped by the strictures of her society and it's indicated that the main reason she cheats is because it's the only thing that makes her feel alive. She talks about her plans of escaping, but inwardly she suspects they will never happen. Ultimately, when Darjuhistan comes under siege by Hounds of Shadow she is so overwhelmed by fear that she ends up killing herself, not aware that her husband has been killed in a duel - by her lover, no less, albeit for reasons of {{revenge}} that have little to do with her marriage. Whether she even counts as a {{jerkass}} depends on [[GoodAdulteryBadAdultery how sympathetic you are to her adultery]], but her {{woobie}} status is pretty difficult to dispute.]]
18th Jun '16 8:31:43 PM Angeldeb82
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* BaseBreaker: Karsa Orlong. A CanonSue in a world of Canon Sues, while ''also'' being a Conan the Barbarian expy with vastly more power and fewer redeeming qualities. Oh, and he also rapes people repeatedly in his introduction story (while calling them 'children', though they're adults, due to the difference in size between his race and theirs. And yes, the effect of HotSkittyOnWailordAction is fairly graphically focused on.) And is generally treated as heroic, if brutal. As you might expect, he is ''slightly'' controversial.

to:

* BaseBreaker: Karsa Orlong. A CanonSue Canon Sue in a world of Canon Sues, while ''also'' being a Conan the Barbarian expy with vastly more power and fewer redeeming qualities. Oh, and he also rapes people repeatedly in his introduction story (while calling them 'children', though they're adults, due to the difference in size between his race and theirs. And yes, the effect of HotSkittyOnWailordAction is fairly graphically focused on.) And is generally treated as heroic, if brutal. As you might expect, he is ''slightly'' controversial.



* CultClassic: Opinions abound that it will never reach mainstream success circa ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' because the depth and complexity that makes it great is alienating to casual readers, and cannot be translated to other mediums.


Added DiffLines:

* CultClassic: Opinions abound that it will never reach mainstream success circa ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' because the depth and complexity that makes it great is alienating to casual readers, and cannot be translated to other mediums.
28th May '16 8:44:20 PM Angeldeb82
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CanonSue: Every third character is said to be this.



* CultClassic: Opinions abound that it will never reach mainstream success circa ASongOfIceAndFire because the depth and complexity that makes it great is alienating to casual readers, and cannot be translated to other mediums.

to:

* CultClassic: Opinions abound that it will never reach mainstream success circa ASongOfIceAndFire ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' because the depth and complexity that makes it great is alienating to casual readers, and cannot be translated to other mediums.



* GodModeSue: How some fans see Karsa.



* TearJerker: [[spoiler:Itkovian's death]].

to:

* TearJerker: [[spoiler:Itkovian's death]].death.]]



* TooCoolToLive: [[spoiler:Itkovian]].

to:

* TooCoolToLive: [[spoiler:Itkovian]].[[spoiler:Itkovian.]]



** Sorry/Apsalar. Multiple people have pointed out to her that [[spoiler: abandoning Cutter wasn't a great idea. Anyone who's moderately perceptive can spot either of their broken hearts immediately.]]

to:

** Sorry/Apsalar. Multiple people have pointed out to her that [[spoiler: abandoning Cutter wasn't a great idea. Anyone who's moderately perceptive can spot either of their broken hearts immediately.]]immediately]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 44. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MalazanBookOfTheFallen