History YMMV / KingdomOfLoathing

24th Dec '15 3:22:36 PM billybobfred
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** Fernswarthy's Basement. 500 grueling, repetitious levels of tough monsters and "tests" that mainly test your ability to spend tons of meat on potions. Actually, there's ''infinite'' levels, but most people stop at 500 because that's when you finally get the telescope. No, sorry, one-seventh of the telescope. You've got to do 500 levels of the basement six more times to finish upgrading it, or it won't be very useful. Have "fun!" After the Tower revamp, you can stop at a rank five telescope and see all the Lair previews, but it still ''goes'' to seven, in case you want that extra 10% to all stats for 10 turns a day.

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** Fernswarthy's Basement. 500 grueling, repetitious levels of tough monsters and "tests" that mainly test your ability to spend tons of meat on potions. Actually, there's ''infinite'' levels, but most people stop at 500 because that's when you finally get the telescope. No, sorry, one-seventh of the telescope. You've got to do 500 levels of the basement six more times to finish upgrading it, or it won't be very useful. Have "fun!" "fun!". After the Tower revamp, you can stop at a rank five telescope and see all the Lair previews, but it still ''goes'' to seven, in case you want that extra 10% to all stats for 10 turns a day.
24th Dec '15 3:20:18 PM billybobfred
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** Fernswarthy's Basement. 500 grueling, repetitious levels of tough monsters and "tests" that mainly test your ability to spend tons of meat on potions. Actually, there's ''infinite'' levels, but most people stop at 500 because that's when you finally get the telescope. No, sorry, one-seventh of the telescope. You've got to do 500 levels of the basement six more times to finish upgrading it, or it won't be very useful. Have "fun!"

to:

** Fernswarthy's Basement. 500 grueling, repetitious levels of tough monsters and "tests" that mainly test your ability to spend tons of meat on potions. Actually, there's ''infinite'' levels, but most people stop at 500 because that's when you finally get the telescope. No, sorry, one-seventh of the telescope. You've got to do 500 levels of the basement six more times to finish upgrading it, or it won't be very useful. Have "fun!""fun!" After the Tower revamp, you can stop at a rank five telescope and see all the Lair previews, but it still ''goes'' to seven, in case you want that extra 10% to all stats for 10 turns a day.
24th Dec '15 3:08:42 PM billybobfred
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** "[Answer: YES!]", coined when a SingleIssueWonk edited the latest iteration of their demand that [[EscapeBattleTechnique tattered scraps of paper]] be {{nerf}}ed to misleadingly imply that WordOfGod had chimed in to agree with them.

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** "[Answer: YES!]", coined when a SingleIssueWonk edited the latest iteration of their demand that [[EscapeBattleTechnique tattered scraps of paper]] be {{nerf}}ed to misleadingly imply that WordOfGod had chimed in to agree with them.expressed agreement.


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** Standard restrictions were seen this way when first introduced. No limited-time content more than two calendar years old may be used under Standard restrictions, and when first introduced, they applied only to the latest challenge path, which caused a fair amount of outcry by itself. Then, when the Standard path was introduced (ordinary ascension, but with Standard restrictions applied), and the old unrestricted paths buried behind an extra menu, players who had a large stock of older donation items felt as though they were being snubbed. While many players still don't like Standard, the realization that it allows donation items to be developed without worry of "what if this is too much of a GameBreaker" or having to re-issue older mechanics that had become inaccessible to newer players has placated some. The Chateau Mantegna and Deck of Every Card are often cited as things that could not have been released as they were without Standard restrictions, since they don't compete for a "slot" like the Mystical Bookshelf and Garden items do.
24th Dec '15 2:58:41 PM billybobfred
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** The old version of the adventure queue. Simply put, the adventure queue smooths out the RNG by remembering the last 5 combat and non-combat adventures you've had in each area and making them less likely to occur. The old version was the same, minus the phrase "in each area", meaning that to play optimally you would have to juggle as many different tasks as possible and rotate through them each time you made the tiniest bit of progress. The new version can't be manipulated this way, removing the obligation to do it for all high-level SpeedRuns. Ironically, the new adventure queue heralded cries of TheyChangedItNowItSucks, precisely because it couldn't be manipulated, even though the actual method of manipulating the old one was a total pain in the ass.

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** The old version of the adventure queue. Simply put, the adventure queue smooths out the RNG by remembering the last 5 combat and non-combat adventures you've had in each area and making them less likely to occur. The old version was the same, minus the phrase "in each area", meaning that to play optimally you would have to juggle as many different tasks as possible and rotate through them each time you made the tiniest bit of progress. The new version can't be manipulated this way, removing the obligation to do it for all high-level SpeedRuns.{{Speed Run}}s. Ironically, the new adventure queue heralded cries of TheyChangedItNowItSucks, precisely because it couldn't be manipulated, even though the actual method of manipulating the old one was a total pain in the ass.
24th Dec '15 2:57:39 PM billybobfred
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* ScrappyMechanic: The one they may yet remove is ()delay (which deliberately makes it take longer for you to get quest items). The one they'll probably never remove is Ronin (which cuts off any outside support for 1,000 turns in Normal ascension runs).
** They did, however, introduce the Casual ascension path; you have no Ronin period, but gain no Karma from the run. (Other rewards are unaffected.)

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* ScrappyMechanic: The one they may yet remove is ()delay (which deliberately makes it take ScrappyMechanic:
** delay() was an obnoxiously complex function that would prevent you from receiving important encounters for a certain number of turns. It originally did this by taking a set number of total delay adventures and distributing them randomly among all relevant areas, but with some weird caveats (most infamously, two ascension-relevant areas would have the same delay() number, but only subtract that many turns from the total pool once). Jick eventually started phasing out usage of delay() by building that directly into the relevant quests, which made the whole thing a lot swingier (since areas that no
longer for you to get quest items). The one they'll probably never remove is actually used delay() would still be assigned a number) until he just replaced the complex math with "return 5".
**
Ronin (which cuts off any outside support for is a period of 1,000 turns in Normal ascension runs).
** They did, however, introduce
a Softcore run when you can only pull 20 items per day and can't receive anything from other players. Complaints about remaining turns of Ronin were one of the most common sights in chat, until the Casual ascension path; you have no type was introduced and players could opt out of it. Noting that Ronin period, but gain no Karma from also ends when you break the run. (Other prism actually encouraged casual players to SpeedRun just to get out of it early. Unlike nearly every other ScrappyMechanic, Ronin is probably never going to get removed, since it's the only thing other than rewards are unaffected.)that distinguishes Softcore from Casual, and using pulls wisely is a vital part of the SpeedRun MetaGame.
** The old version of the adventure queue. Simply put, the adventure queue smooths out the RNG by remembering the last 5 combat and non-combat adventures you've had in each area and making them less likely to occur. The old version was the same, minus the phrase "in each area", meaning that to play optimally you would have to juggle as many different tasks as possible and rotate through them each time you made the tiniest bit of progress. The new version can't be manipulated this way, removing the obligation to do it for all high-level SpeedRuns. Ironically, the new adventure queue heralded cries of TheyChangedItNowItSucks, precisely because it couldn't be manipulated, even though the actual method of manipulating the old one was a total pain in the ass.
** The "much-maligned, super-secret hidden interaction between +Monster Level and +Noncombat Chance", where every 5 [=+ML=] would cancel out [=1% +NC=]. It was an attempt to curb a PlayerPreferredPattern of always pumping both of those stats as high as possible, since they were both extremely useful, but it ended up just being an unfun GuideDangIt that made [=+ML=] worse than useless, and got scrapped a year and a half after its introduction.
11th Dec '15 9:56:45 AM TheSteelFire
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* {{Squick}}: Often [[invoked]] in sleaze attacks

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* {{Squick}}: Often [[invoked]] invoked in sleaze attacksattacks.
11th Dec '15 9:56:19 AM TheSteelFire
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* {{Squick}}: Often [[invoked]] in sleaze attacks
29th Nov '15 10:26:44 PM billybobfred
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** Seal Clubber's Tropical Island. You need to make a disguise that will allow you to get past the guards at the volcano. In order to do so, you need six each of three specific items dropped only by the mother hellseals at the beach. How to make them appear in the first place? You have to injure (not kill) a hellseal pup so it will wail for help. And here's where the hardest part comes in - the chance of a mother hellseal appearing are equally proportional to how many times a hellseal pup wailed... but so is their [[OhCrap strength]]. Putting it simply, you have to choose between fighting a pretty tough enemy with a ridiculously low chance of appearing in the first place or [[BossInMookClothing a ridiculously powerful foe that will kill you unless you one-shot it]]. Oh, and don't forget to have a club as your main weapon or the parts they drop will be damaged and thus useless. Fortunately, [[GlassCannon the mother hellseals' HP doesn't scale with their other stats]], and your Nemesis is [[AnticlimaxBoss ridiculously easy]] in comparison.

to:

** Seal Clubber's Tropical Island. You need to make a disguise that will allow you to get past the guards at the volcano. In order to do so, you need six each of three specific items dropped only by the mother hellseals at the beach. How to make them appear in the first place? You have to injure (not kill) a hellseal pup so it will wail for help. And here's where the hardest part comes in - the chance of a mother hellseal appearing are equally proportional to how many times a hellseal pup wailed... but so is their [[OhCrap strength]]. Putting it simply, you have to choose between fighting a pretty tough enemy with a ridiculously low chance of appearing in the first place or [[BossInMookClothing a ridiculously powerful foe that will kill you unless you one-shot it]]. Oh, and don't forget to have a club as your main weapon and ''absolutely no other sources of damage'', or the parts they drop will be damaged and thus useless. Fortunately, [[GlassCannon the mother hellseals' HP doesn't scale with their other stats]], and your Nemesis is [[AnticlimaxBoss ridiculously easy]] in comparison.
29th Nov '15 6:05:27 PM billybobfred
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** The "cornbeefadon" is a recurring meme, sparked ages ago when someone jokingly suggested that Mr. Store sell a familiar that's just a dinosaur with a corned beef sandwich taped to its face.
** "You can't get the same semirare twice in a row." An oft-forgotten mechanic of the game, when a player comes into the forums asking why their semirare didn't work, they'll usually get several variants of the phrase.
** "[Answer: YES!]", coined when a SingleIssueWonk edited the latest iteration of their demand that [[EscapeBattleTechnique tattered scraps of paper]] be {{nerf}}ed to misleadingly imply that WordOfGod had chimed in to agree with them.
21st Mar '15 3:09:22 PM billybobfred
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** For [[HundredPercentCompletion completionists]], the "Bees Hate You" challenge path. Updates occasionally add a reason for going back (most notably, the introduction of Monster Manuel a year after the path meant factoid hunters had to dive in for at least long enough to fight all the wandering bees three times each), and often add a hurdle to make the path much harder.

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** For [[HundredPercentCompletion completionists]], the "Bees Hate You" challenge path. Updates occasionally add a reason for going back (most notably, the introduction of Monster Manuel a year after the path meant factoid hunters had to dive in for at least long enough to fight all the wandering bees three times each), and often add a hurdle to make the path much harder. Some players actually ''like'' this, surprisingly enough.
-->'''[[http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showthread.php?p=4713386#post4713386 Eroquin]]''': BHY is the champion of "make completionists do it again and again and again". And it's great because it keeps getting suckier!
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