History YMMV / KingdomHearts

22nd Jun '16 8:38:06 PM Adept
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* AmericansHateTingle: Reports on the Japanese ''KH'' fandom report ''significantly'' less Kairi/Namine/Xion hate from fangirls than there is in the US; even most of the ones who don't care for them don't ''hate'' on them. To be fair, some of this hate comes from the YaoiFangirls [[DieForOurShip for]] [[RonTheDeathEater obvious]] {{rea|lWomenDontWearDresses}}sons.
** Also, while he is far from hated, Riku is nowhere near as popular in Japan as he used to be even though he remains popular in the west. An official Japanese popularity poll listed Sora, Roxas, Axel, Aqua, and Terra (in that order) as the fan favorites, while Riku didn't even breach the 100 vote mark.

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* AmericansHateTingle: AmericansHateTingle:
**
Reports on the Japanese ''KH'' fandom report ''significantly'' less Kairi/Namine/Xion hate from fangirls than there is in the US; even most of the ones who don't care for them don't ''hate'' on them. To be fair, some of this hate comes from the YaoiFangirls [[DieForOurShip for]] [[RonTheDeathEater obvious]] {{rea|lWomenDontWearDresses}}sons.
** Also, while he is far from hated, Riku is nowhere near as Sora has become something of a BaseBreaker amongst the American fandom. In Japan, he's '''''the''''' most popular in Japan as he used to be even though he remains popular in character from the west. An official Japanese popularity poll listed Sora, Roxas, Axel, Aqua, series, and Terra (in that order) in a ''Famitsu'' reader poll, he ranked 5th as the fan favorites, while Riku didn't even breach most liked Video Game Character.[[note]]The only characters that outranked him were [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]], Cloud Strife from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', Solid Snake from ''Franchise/MetalGear'', and the 100 vote mark.Metal Slime from ''VideoGame/DragonQuest''.[[/note]]



* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: It should be noted that some characters are more popular with certain segments of the fandom than others. While EnsembleDarkhorse {{Bishonen}} characters such as Demyx and Zexion are popular with fangirls, RatedMForManly {{Badass}} characters such as "Ansem", Xemnas, Braig and Terra are popular with male ''Kingdom Hearts'' fans. Kairi and girls similar to her aren't very well-liked among fangirls (as stated above), but tend to be popular with younger/girlier girls, Disney fans and, of course, [[FetishFuel horny]] [[PerverseSexualLust males]].
** Sora has become something of a BaseBreaker amongst the American fandom. In Japan, he's '''''the''''' most popular character from the series, and in a ''Famitsu'' reader poll, he ranked 5th as the most liked Video Game Character.[[note]]The only characters that outranked him were [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]], Cloud Strife from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', Solid Snake from ''Franchise/MetalGear'', and the Metal Slime from ''VideoGame/DragonQuest''.[[/note]]

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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff:
**
It should be noted that some characters are more popular with certain segments of the fandom than others. While EnsembleDarkhorse {{Bishonen}} characters such as Demyx and Zexion are popular with fangirls, RatedMForManly {{Badass}} characters such as "Ansem", Xemnas, Braig and Terra are popular with male ''Kingdom Hearts'' fans. Kairi and girls similar to her aren't very well-liked among fangirls (as stated above), but tend to be popular with younger/girlier girls, Disney fans and, of course, [[FetishFuel horny]] [[PerverseSexualLust males]].
** Sora has become something of a BaseBreaker amongst the American fandom. In Japan, he's '''''the''''' most Riku is nowhere near as popular character from in Japan as he used to be even though he remains popular in the series, west. An official Japanese popularity poll listed Sora, Roxas, Axel, Aqua, and in a ''Famitsu'' reader poll, he ranked 5th Terra (in that order) as the most liked Video Game Character.[[note]]The only characters that outranked him were [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Mario]], Cloud Strife from ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', Solid Snake from ''Franchise/MetalGear'', and fan favorites, while Riku didn't even breach the Metal Slime from ''VideoGame/DragonQuest''.[[/note]]100 vote mark.
18th Jun '16 7:50:46 AM Peridonyx
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series, though not without its dark moments, started off as a lighthearted romp through various Disney worlds, with ThePowerOfFriendship as its central theme. However, the series began to move dangerously far into DarkerAndEdgier territory with the BittersweetEnding of ''Birth by Sleep'', where [[spoiler:Master Xehanort killed Eraqus and then ruined the lives of Terra, Aqua, and Ven -- Terra's body became Xehanort's new vessel, Aqua got trapped in the Realm of Darkness, and Ven was left comatose in a castle]]. But it was the ending of ''Dream Drop Distance'' that truly raised the ire and frustration of quite a bit of fans -- it was revealed that [[spoiler:everything that had happened so far throughout the series was all part of Xehanort's master plan via TimeTravel, thus both retroactively reducing all of the heroes' accomplishments to nothing and making Xehanort an outright InvincibleVillain]]. That, combined with ''Kingdom Hearts III'' taking so long to come out and potentially throw said fans a bone by finally subverting this trope, has only served to burn them out.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series, though not without its dark moments, started off as a lighthearted romp through various Disney worlds, with ThePowerOfFriendship as its central theme. However, the series began to move dangerously far into DarkerAndEdgier territory with the BittersweetEnding of ''Birth by Sleep'', where [[spoiler:Master Xehanort killed Eraqus and then ruined the lives of Terra, Aqua, and Ven -- Terra's body became Xehanort's new vessel, Aqua got trapped in the Realm of Darkness, and Ven was left comatose in a castle]]. But it was the ending of ''Dream Drop Distance'' that truly raised the ire and frustration of quite a bit of fans -- it fans: It was revealed that [[spoiler:everything that had happened so far throughout the series was all part of Xehanort's master plan via TimeTravel, thus both retroactively reducing all of the heroes' accomplishments to nothing and making Xehanort an outright InvincibleVillain]]. That, combined with ''Kingdom Hearts III'' taking so long to come out and potentially throw said fans a bone by finally subverting this trope, has only served to burn them out.
31st May '16 5:08:23 PM Peridonyx
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Added DiffLines:

* ShowDontTell: A problem that many fans have with the whole BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil Aesop about Light and Darkness that got started in ''Chain of Memories''. Virtually every major tragedy has been caused by Darkness, and virtually every major solution has been made possible by Light, not to mention the multiple prophecies that explicitly support LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil. Furthermore, any DarkIsNotEvil characters are exceedingly rare, their motives still seem to favor the Light, and using Darkness seems to cause them no end of grief regardless. If anything, the "tyranny of Light" comes across as the much preferable option, especially when the aforementioned Aesop also happens to be one of the main motives behind the BigBad's nigh-endless list of atrocities.
31st May '16 9:38:26 AM DrakeClawfang
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: ''Birth by Sleep'' and ''Re:coded'' both feature [[BonusBoss additional bosses]] that, gameplay-wise, turn out to be [[{{Expy}} close enough]] to the ones previously exclusive to the ''Final Mix'' version of ''Kingdom Hearts'' and ''Kingdom Hearts II'', and therefore [[NoExportForYou confined to Japan]]. So, the "Unknown" [[ItWasHisSled (Xemnas)]] gets an expy through the ''new'' Unknown in ''Birth by Sleep'', thus covering ''KHIFM'' territory, while Terra's Lingering Will from ''KHIIFM+'' gets his expy thanks to ''Vanitas[='=]'' Lingering Will, still in BBS. About Roxas, upgraded from a cutscene (''KHII'') to a full-fledged boss (''KHIIFM+''), the fact he was still a storyline boss instead of a bonus boss allowed him to be used as a FinalBoss instead, in ''Re:coded''. You can basically see Creator/TetsuyaNomura saying "sorry, western fans."
** Now that ''1.5 HD Remix'' and ''2.5 HD Remix'' are coming to the west, this apology may have been rendered meaningless.
** Nomura must know how much Chernabog is an EnsembleDarkhorse among the Disney villains of the series, because with every game/re-release, he's gotten an even better treatment. He's remembered for having an epic, intense boss battle during the DarkestHour of the original game, and having his original theme playing… only in the Western versions, however. ''Final Mix'' had "Night on Bald Mountain" added to the fight, but some fans still disliked the arrangement present, claiming it seemed childish or too whimsical to accommodate a portrayal of Satan. A decade later, [[spoiler: Chernabog returns in ''Dream Drop Distance'', with a much more faithful version of his leitmotif for his boss battle in ''both'' editions of the game.]] However, fans were disappointed when his boss battle was more of a Dive battle, and a very simple fight at that. Come ''1.5'', everything is settled: both the East and the West have the epic, memorable boss battle with Chernabog while listening to the grand, badass theme used in ''Dream Drop Distance''.

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* AuthorsSavingThrow: ''Birth by Sleep'' After three infamously NoExportForYou "Final Mix" versions that were Japan-only, the 1.5 and ''Re:coded'' both feature [[BonusBoss additional bosses]] that, gameplay-wise, turn out to be [[{{Expy}} close enough]] to 2.5 [=PS3=] ports of the ones previously exclusive to series included the ''Final Mix'' version versions of ''Kingdom Hearts'' ''I'', ''II'', and ''Kingdom Hearts II'', and therefore [[NoExportForYou confined to Japan]]. So, the "Unknown" [[ItWasHisSled (Xemnas)]] gets an expy through the ''new'' Unknown in ''Birth by Sleep'', thus covering ''KHIFM'' territory, while Terra's Lingering Will from ''KHIIFM+'' gets his expy thanks to ''Vanitas[='=]'' Lingering Will, still in BBS. About Roxas, upgraded from a cutscene (''KHII'') to a full-fledged boss (''KHIIFM+''), the fact he was still a storyline boss instead of a bonus boss allowed him to be used as a FinalBoss instead, in ''Re:coded''. You can basically see Creator/TetsuyaNomura saying "sorry, western fans."
** Now
By Sleep''. International fans that ''1.5 HD Remix'' and ''2.5 HD Remix'' are coming to the west, this apology may have had been rendered meaningless.
** Nomura must know how much Chernabog is an EnsembleDarkhorse among
left out of all their extra content over the Disney villains of the series, because with every game/re-release, he's gotten an even years can now enjoy it looking better treatment. He's remembered for having an epic, intense boss battle during the DarkestHour of the original game, and having his original theme playing… only in the Western versions, however. ''Final Mix'' had "Night on Bald Mountain" added to the fight, but some fans still disliked the arrangement present, claiming it seemed childish or too whimsical to accommodate a portrayal of Satan. A decade later, [[spoiler: Chernabog returns in ''Dream Drop Distance'', with a much more faithful version of his leitmotif for his boss battle in ''both'' editions of the game.]] However, fans were disappointed when his boss battle was more of a Dive battle, and a very simple fight at that. Come ''1.5'', everything is settled: both the East and the West have the epic, memorable boss battle with Chernabog while listening to the grand, badass theme used in ''Dream Drop Distance''.than ever.
26th May '16 5:46:20 PM nombretomado
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** The announcement of Kingdom Hearts [=II.8=] has ''already'' caused this, with some fans happy for the chance to play 3D in HD and get some new content, with others wishing that Square would just get on with moving the series forward with Kingdom Hearts 3 already and upset that it's a PS4 exclusive.

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** The announcement of Kingdom Hearts [=II.8=] has ''already'' caused this, with some fans happy for the chance to play 3D in HD and get some new content, with others wishing that Square would just get on with moving the series forward with Kingdom Hearts 3 already and upset that it's a PS4 [=PS4=] exclusive.
22nd May '16 2:30:33 PM Chris116
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Added DiffLines:

** Despite the fact [[Disney/{{Hercules}} Olympus]] is the most heavily recurring Disney world in the series, only ''two'' of the five Titans have appeared as bosses. Many fans have been clamoring since the first game for a boss battle with the Lava and Wind Titans (and to a much lesser extent, the cyclops).
5th Apr '16 11:43:00 AM Chris116
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** Nomura must know how much Chernabog is an EnsembleDarkhorse among the Disney villains of the series, because with every game/re-release, he's gotten an even better treatment. He's remembered for having an epic, intense boss battle during the DarkestHour of the original game, and having his original theme playing… only in the Western versions, however. ''Final Mix'' had "Night on Bald Mountain" added to the fight, but some fans still disliked the "Kingdom Hearts" version of his theme, claiming it seemed childish or too silly to accommodate a portrayal of Satan. A decade later, [[spoiler: Chernabog returns in ''Dream Drop Distance'', with a much more faithful version of his leitmotif for his boss battle in ''both'' editions of the game.]] However, fans were disappointed when his boss battle was more of a Dive battle, and a very simple fight at that. Come ''1.5'', everything is settled: both the East and the West have the epic, memorable boss battle with Chernabog while listening to the grand, badass theme used in ''Dream Drop Distance''.

to:

** Nomura must know how much Chernabog is an EnsembleDarkhorse among the Disney villains of the series, because with every game/re-release, he's gotten an even better treatment. He's remembered for having an epic, intense boss battle during the DarkestHour of the original game, and having his original theme playing… only in the Western versions, however. ''Final Mix'' had "Night on Bald Mountain" added to the fight, but some fans still disliked the "Kingdom Hearts" version of his theme, arrangement present, claiming it seemed childish or too silly whimsical to accommodate a portrayal of Satan. A decade later, [[spoiler: Chernabog returns in ''Dream Drop Distance'', with a much more faithful version of his leitmotif for his boss battle in ''both'' editions of the game.]] However, fans were disappointed when his boss battle was more of a Dive battle, and a very simple fight at that. Come ''1.5'', everything is settled: both the East and the West have the epic, memorable boss battle with Chernabog while listening to the grand, badass theme used in ''Dream Drop Distance''.



*** He even got "Night on Bald Mountain" as his boss theme, something NONE of the other Disney villains have gotten (having a theme or song from their films as their boss theme, that is). This was only in the American version, however; in the Japanese version, he just has the regular boss music. [[spoiler:In ''3D'', he keeps "Night on Bald Mountain" as his boss music, even in the Japanese version. Even better, it's a much more faithful rendition of his theme, whereas in the original, it was a more "Kingdom Hearts" take on it. It was this rendition that was inserted into his original boss battle in ''Kingdom Hearts'' for ''1.5'']]
** Xigbar/Braig is starting to get here, thanks to mastering the art of [[DeadpanSnarker deadpanned snarking]] and by being, by far, the biggest {{Troll}} in the series.

to:

*** He even got "Night on Bald Mountain" as his boss theme, something NONE of the other Disney villains have gotten (having a theme or song from their films as their boss theme, that is). This was only in the American version, however; in the Japanese version, he just has the regular boss music. [[spoiler:In ''3D'', he keeps "Night on Bald Mountain" as his boss music, even in the Japanese version. Even better, it's a much more faithful rendition of his theme, whereas in the original, it was a more "Kingdom Hearts" take on it.theme than Shimomura's original composition. It was this rendition that was inserted into his original boss battle in ''Kingdom Hearts'' for ''1.5'']]
** Xigbar/Braig is starting to get here, thanks to mastering the art of [[DeadpanSnarker deadpanned snarking]] and by being, by far, the biggest {{Troll}} in the series.series - as well as the reveal of his critical importance to the series' plot.



** Yen Sid has gotten some popularity thanks to being an AscendedExtra who goes from a generic mentor to the BigGood of the series, and a reasonable CoolOldGuy who doesn't adhere to Eraqus' vehement anti-light philosophy. Many would like to see him take part in the final battle.
** Ansem the Wise has gotten fans thanks to being voiced by freakin' Creator/ChristopherLee, and for his CharacterDevelopment as he becomes TheAtoner for being such a KnightTemplar.



* ItWasHisSled: That Ansem guy you're looking for in order to find a way to stop the Heartless? He's actually the BigBad. And then the second game revealed that he ''wasn't'' actually Ansem, but the Heartless of Xehanort, a man who studied under (and pretended to be) the ''real'' Ansem the Wise. Both of these were shocking twists at the time of their respective releases, but are more or less {{Late Arrival Spoiler}}s now.

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* ItWasHisSled: ItWasHisSled:
**
That Ansem guy you're looking for in order to find a way to stop the Heartless? He's actually the BigBad. And then the second game revealed that he ''wasn't'' actually Ansem, but the Heartless of Xehanort, a man who studied under (and pretended to be) the ''real'' Ansem the Wise. Both of these were shocking twists at the time of their respective releases, but are more or less {{Late Arrival Spoiler}}s now.now.
** Kairi is a Princess of Heart.
** Roxas is Sora's Nobody.
** Diz is actually Ansem the Wise in disguise.
5th Apr '16 8:38:40 AM Peridonyx
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** Master Xehanort is either a BadassGrandpa MagnificentBastard or an awful InvincibleVillain who ruined the plot via excessive {{Asspull}}s and {{Retcon}}s.

to:

** Master Xehanort is either a BadassGrandpa MagnificentBastard or an awful InvincibleVillain who has ruined the plot via excessive too many {{Asspull}}s and {{Retcon}}s.



* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series, though not without its dark moments, started off as a lighthearted romp through various Disney worlds with ThePowerOfFriendship as its central theme. However, the series began to move dangerously far into DarkerAndEdgier territory with the BittersweetEnding of ''Birth by Sleep'', where [[spoiler:Master Xehanort killed Eraqus and ruins the lives of Terra, Aqua, and Ven -- Terra's body became Xehanort's new vessel, Aqua got trapped in the Realm of Darkness, and Ven was left comatose in a castle]]. But it was the ending of ''Dream Drop Distance'' that truly raised the ire and frustration of quite a bit of fans -- it was revealed that [[spoiler:everything that happened so far throughout the series was all part of Xehanort's master plan via TimeTravel, thus retroactively reducing all of the heroes' accomplishments to nothing and making Xehanort an outright InvincibleVillain]]. That, combined with ''Kingdom Hearts III'' taking so long to come out and potentially throw said fans a bone by finally subverting this trope, has only served to burn them out.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series, though not without its dark moments, started off as a lighthearted romp through various Disney worlds worlds, with ThePowerOfFriendship as its central theme. However, the series began to move dangerously far into DarkerAndEdgier territory with the BittersweetEnding of ''Birth by Sleep'', where [[spoiler:Master Xehanort killed Eraqus and ruins then ruined the lives of Terra, Aqua, and Ven -- Terra's body became Xehanort's new vessel, Aqua got trapped in the Realm of Darkness, and Ven was left comatose in a castle]]. But it was the ending of ''Dream Drop Distance'' that truly raised the ire and frustration of quite a bit of fans -- it was revealed that [[spoiler:everything that had happened so far throughout the series was all part of Xehanort's master plan via TimeTravel, thus both retroactively reducing all of the heroes' accomplishments to nothing and making Xehanort an outright InvincibleVillain]]. That, combined with ''Kingdom Hearts III'' taking so long to come out and potentially throw said fans a bone by finally subverting this trope, has only served to burn them out.



** Xehanort's secret behind his CrazyPrepared streak throughout the series: [[spoiler:TimeTravel]]. [[InvincibleVillain Again]], [[RetCon understandable]].

to:

** Xehanort's secret behind his CrazyPrepared streak throughout the series: [[spoiler:TimeTravel]]. [[InvincibleVillain [[AssPull Again]], [[RetCon understandable]].



** Eraqus. Yes, he suffered from PoorCommunicationKills and tried to ShootTheDog on [[spoiler:Ven and Terra]], but he genuinely believed that doing so would prevent Master Xehanort's ApocalypseHow, he was even remorseful afterward, and he even decided to atone by [[spoiler:giving his heart to Terra to keep him from being fully overtaken by Xehanort's possession]]. And yet some fans still see him as a JerkAss fanatic who's too biased toward the light, despite the fact that Xehanort is obviously far worse and clearly biased toward darkness despite all his talk about "balance".

to:

** Eraqus. Yes, he suffered from PoorCommunicationKills and tried to ShootTheDog on [[spoiler:Ven and Terra]], but he genuinely believed that doing so would prevent Master Xehanort's ApocalypseHow, he was even still remorseful afterward, and then he even decided to atone by [[spoiler:giving his heart Heart to Terra to keep him from being fully overtaken by Xehanort's possession]]. And yet some fans still see him as a JerkAss fanatic who's who was too biased toward the light, Light, despite the fact that Xehanort is obviously far worse and clearly biased toward darkness Darkness despite all of his talk about "balance"."Balance".
31st Mar '16 9:29:56 AM XanderVJ
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** Special mention to the famous ''[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Z9Od7o36Y Another Side, Another Story]]'' special ending from the ''Final Mix'' version of the first game. This single video alone inspired so many fan theories back in 2003 that you needed to go to a debate about the timeline of ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'' series in order to find something remotely as insane. Fans literally went through the video frame by frame like it was the frigging Zapruder film (specially the second half, which was prone to this kind of viewing), looking for clues about what the next installment was to offer. Let us stress the fact that this was back when the series had only ''one game''... [[CrazyAwesome Yeah...]]

to:

** Special mention to the famous ''[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Z9Od7o36Y Another Side, Another Story]]'' special ending from the ''Final Mix'' version of the first game. This single video alone inspired so many fan theories back in 2003 that you needed to go to a debate about the timeline of ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'' series in order to find something remotely as insane. Fans literally went through the video frame by frame like it was the frigging Zapruder film Film/ZapruderFilm (specially the second half, which was prone to this kind of viewing), looking for clues about what the next installment was to offer. Let us stress the fact that this was back when the series had only ''one game''... [[CrazyAwesome Yeah...]]
31st Mar '16 8:49:21 AM XanderVJ
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** To be fair, if you've played the series in order from the beginning AND read all of the extra canon information not available outside Japan, you may still be lost when it comes to the plot. [[KudzuPlot It's one of those series.]]

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** To be fair, if you've played the series in order from the beginning AND read all of the extra canon information not available outside Japan, you may still be lost when it comes to the plot. [[KudzuPlot It's one of those series.]]See BrokenBase above.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.KingdomHearts