History YMMV / KingArthur

20th Jun '18 2:17:22 PM Tarbtano
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** Is Mordred a rebellious and treacherous son or victim of fate?

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** Is Mordred a rebellious and treacherous son or victim of fate?fate? Moreover in even older tales where he's Arthur's legitimate nephew and not his son, was his takeover him enacting a grab for power or him just acting as a regent in his uncle's absence? The earliest tales say he and Arthur fell during a battle but where they fighting each other or were they on the same side? The text was extremely vague.



** Also worth mentioning Scottish Arthurian literature that depicted Arthur and members of his court as tyrannical and lecherous villains, and portraying Mordred's power grab as a legitimate action to reclaim his birth right.

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** Also worth mentioning Scottish Arthurian literature that depicted Arthur and members of his court as tyrannical and lecherous villains, and portraying Mordred's power grab as a legitimate action to reclaim his birth right. Some even paint Mordred in a favorable light as a enacting rule of law and making peace with his neighboring realms, namely the Scottish King Loth.



* NewerThanTheyThink: What? There is no Lancelot in the original legends? Mordred is Arthur's nephew and there's practically no [[IncestIsRelative sister hanky panky]] going on? Arthur is a BadassNormal himself and his PowerTrio includes [[MagicKnight Cai]] and a [[HandicappedBadass one-handed]] [[LightningBruiser Bedwyr?]] The realm falls because of plain old duplicity and treachery and not some [[BecauseDestinySaysSo convoluted fate?]] And where the heck is [[EnsembleDarkHorse Merlin?]]

to:

* NewerThanTheyThink: What? There is no Lancelot in the original legends? Mordred is Arthur's nephew and there's heir with practically no [[IncestIsRelative sister hanky panky]] going on? Arthur is a BadassNormal himself and his PowerTrio includes [[MagicKnight Cai]] and a [[HandicappedBadass one-handed]] [[LightningBruiser Bedwyr?]] The realm falls because of plain old duplicity and treachery and not some [[BecauseDestinySaysSo convoluted fate?]] And where the heck is [[EnsembleDarkHorse Merlin?]]
13th Apr '18 8:47:55 AM KrspaceT
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Added DiffLines:

* SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped: The Parzival Poem features the character Feirefiz, Percival's half brother from a Moorish mother, and explicitly a pagan. While he does convert to Christianity, at no point before his conversion was he shown to be a bad person or evil, and was just as noble as his half brother. This is particularly notable for being implemented by the author ''in the early 13th century'', where that was not a common view to have.
18th Feb '18 12:36:38 AM nombretomado
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** Bors (BoisterousBruiser played by RayWinstone) and Tristan (ArcherArchetype with pet hawk and CoolSword played by Creator/MadsMikkelsen) are fan favorites.

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** Bors (BoisterousBruiser played by RayWinstone) Creator/RayWinstone) and Tristan (ArcherArchetype with pet hawk and CoolSword played by Creator/MadsMikkelsen) are fan favorites.
30th Jan '18 4:41:31 PM nombretomado
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** Itís no coincidence that the [[MisplacedNationalism French]] Lancelot was given so much attention by the later French writers, while the [[BadassDecay older Welsh knights like Bedivere and Kay]] were rarely featured [[ForgottenPhlebotinum and Kayís powers were never mentioned again]].

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** Itís no coincidence that the [[MisplacedNationalism [[UsefulNotes/MisplacedNationalism French]] Lancelot was given so much attention by the later French writers, while the [[BadassDecay older Welsh knights like Bedivere and Kay]] were rarely featured [[ForgottenPhlebotinum and Kayís powers were never mentioned again]].
29th Dec '17 10:23:51 PM Americanada
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*** In the earliest stories Morgan Le Fay was simply a mysterious/mystical healer associated with an island of apples.

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*** In the earliest stories Morgan Le Fay was simply a mysterious/mystical healer associated with an island of apples. Even earlier than that, there was not a Morgan le Fay, but there was a Morgan Tud, chief physician. Morgan Tud bears little resemblance to Morgan le Fau, as Morgan Tud is a male with no familial relationship to Arthur.



* BadassDecay: Originally Kay (Cai) had [[PlayingWithFire magical/supernatural powers]] and was one of Arthurís best knights, considering wounds from Kayís sword couldnít be healed. Then [[KidHero Perceval]] shows up to Arthurís court. After Kay [[JerkassHasAPoint questions Percevalís abilities]], insults fly and [[TookALevelInJerkass Kay even slaps a woman that would only laugh when she saw the greatest knight]], Perceval goes off on a quest and later [[DisproportionateRetribution breaks Kayís shoulder and kills Kayís (jousting/battle) horse.]] The cycle repeats with newer knights, until Kayís only purpose in the stories only seems to be taunting and insulting new knights so they will get angry and go off on quests and make names for themselves just to prove Kay wrong.

to:

* BadassDecay: Originally Kay (Cai) had [[PlayingWithFire magical/supernatural powers]] and was one of Arthurís best knights, considering wounds from Kayís sword couldnít be healed. Then [[KidHero Perceval]] shows up to Arthurís court. After Kay [[JerkassHasAPoint questions Percevalís abilities]], insults fly and [[TookALevelInJerkass Kay even slaps a woman that would only laugh when she saw the greatest knight]], knight]] (or strikes a dwarf and his she-dwarf who had been silent for the time theyíd spent in the court only to immediately greet and praise Peredur/Percival), Perceval goes off on a quest and later [[DisproportionateRetribution breaks Kayís shoulder and kills Kayís (jousting/battle) horse.]] defeats Kay, breaking his collarbone. The cycle repeats with newer knights, until Kayís only purpose in the stories only seems to be taunting and insulting new knights so they will get angry and go off on quests and make names for themselves just to prove Kay wrong.
4th Nov '17 10:53:23 PM fusilcontrafusil
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** To say nothing about how enamored Americans, whose very nation is based on the rejection of British monarchy, are with Arthurian myth.

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** To say nothing about how enamored Americans, whose very nation is based was founded on the rejection of British monarchy and particularly ''British'' monarchy, are with Arthurian myth.
4th Nov '17 10:51:45 PM fusilcontrafusil
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** To say nothing about how enamored Americans are with Arthurian myth.

to:

** To say nothing about how enamored Americans Americans, whose very nation is based on the rejection of British monarchy, are with Arthurian myth.
4th Nov '17 10:44:56 PM fusilcontrafusil
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* GeographicFlexibility: The earlier stories placed Arthurís court (or at least one of his courts) in ďCelliwigĒ in Cornwall. Most writers ignore this and instead place the location as the mythical ďCamelot,Ē if only to not be limited by the locationís geography.
2nd Nov '17 4:57:22 PM Americanada
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*** In the earliest stories Morgan Le Fay was simply a mysterious/mystical healer.

to:

*** In the earliest stories Morgan Le Fay was simply a mysterious/mystical healer.healer associated with an island of apples.



* BadassDecay: Originally Kay (Cai) had [[PlayingWithFire magical/supernatural powers]] and was one of Arthurís best knights, considering wounds from Kayís sword couldnít be healed. Then [[KidHero Perceval]] shows up to Arthurís court. After Kay [[JerkassHasAPoint questions Percevalís abilities]], insults fly and [[TookALevelInJerkass Kay even slaps a woman that would only laugh when she saw the greatest knight]], Perceval goes off on a quest and later [[DisproportionateRetribution breaks Kayís shoulder and kills Kayís (jousting/battle) horse.]]

to:

* BadassDecay: Originally Kay (Cai) had [[PlayingWithFire magical/supernatural powers]] and was one of Arthurís best knights, considering wounds from Kayís sword couldnít be healed. Then [[KidHero Perceval]] shows up to Arthurís court. After Kay [[JerkassHasAPoint questions Percevalís abilities]], insults fly and [[TookALevelInJerkass Kay even slaps a woman that would only laugh when she saw the greatest knight]], Perceval goes off on a quest and later [[DisproportionateRetribution breaks Kayís shoulder and kills Kayís (jousting/battle) horse.]]]] The cycle repeats with newer knights, until Kayís only purpose in the stories only seems to be taunting and insulting new knights so they will get angry and go off on quests and make names for themselves just to prove Kay wrong.
* GeographicFlexibility: The earlier stories placed Arthurís court (or at least one of his courts) in ďCelliwigĒ in Cornwall. Most writers ignore this and instead place the location as the mythical ďCamelot,Ē if only to not be limited by the locationís geography.
2nd Nov '17 3:22:33 PM Americanada
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** Kay's furious, hot-tempered personality is explained away in ''Parzival'' by Wolfram von Eschenbach as a function of his job as Arthur's bouncer. Tons of people showed up to the castle every day claiming to be worthy knights when they really weren't, and it was Kay's job to sort out the bad ones from the good. This explains his really jerkish behavior when Percival arrives at Camelot. If that's the case, he would also be a [[TheMeanBrit mean Brit]] long before Creator/SimonCowell was born.

to:

** Kay's furious, hot-tempered personality is explained away in ''Parzival'' by Wolfram von Eschenbach as a function of his job as Arthur's bouncer. Tons of people showed up to the castle every day claiming to be worthy knights when they really weren't, and it was Kay's job to sort out the bad ones from the good. This explains his really jerkish behavior when Percival arrives at Camelot. If that's the case, he would also be a [[TheMeanBrit mean Brit]] long before Creator/SimonCowell was born. And what happened to his magic powers?



*** In the even earlier stories, Merlin/Myrddin was called Myrddin Wyllt (Merlin the Wild). He was a wild, hairy man that lived alone in the wilderness for some time, receiving prophecies.



*** In the earliest stories Morgan Le Fay was simply a mysterious/mystical healer.
** Was Morgause an adulteress that seduced Arthur, or did Arthur deceive her into sleeping with him by pretending to be her husband? And was either one of them aware of their relation?



* AmericansHateTingle: One would have better luck trying to find a penguin in the Sahara than finding any Arthurian lore from Ireland that depicts Arthur in any fashion other than [[TakeThat a petty horse thief]].

to:

* AmericansHateTingle: One would have better luck trying to find a penguin in the Sahara than finding any Arthurian lore from Ireland that depicts Arthur in any fashion other than [[TakeThat a petty horse thief]]. A bit strange considering the many Irishmen in his court in Culhwch and Olwen, as well as his adventure in Ireland.



* BadassDecay: Originally Kay (Cai) had [[PlayingWithFire magical/supernatural powers]] and was one of Arthurís best knights, considering wounds from Kayís sword couldnít be healed. Then [[KidHero Perceval]] shows up to Arthurís court. After Kay [[JerkassHasAPoint questions Percevalís abilities]], insults fly and [[TookALevelInJerkass Kay even slaps a woman that would only laugh when she saw the greatest knight]], Perceval goes off on a quest and later [[DisproportionateRetribution breaks Kayís shoulder and kills Kayís (jousting/battle) horse.]]



** Itís no coincidence that the [[MisplacedNationalism French]] Lancelot was given so much attention by the later French writers, while the [[BadassDecay older Welsh knights like Bedivere and Kay]] were rarely featured [[ForgottenPhlebotinum and Kayís powers were never mentioned again]].



* NewerThanTheyThink: What? There is no Lancelot in the original legends? Mordred is Arthur's nephew and there's practically no [[IncestIsRelative sister hanky panky]] going on? Arthur is a BadassNormal himself and his PowerTrio includes [[BoisterousBruiser Cai]] and a [[HandicappedBadass one-handed]] [[LightningBruiser Bedwyr?]] The realm falls because of plain old duplicity and treachery and not some [[BecauseDestinySaysSo convoluted fate?]] And where the heck is [[EnsembleDarkHorse Merlin?]]

to:

* NewerThanTheyThink: What? There is no Lancelot in the original legends? Mordred is Arthur's nephew and there's practically no [[IncestIsRelative sister hanky panky]] going on? Arthur is a BadassNormal himself and his PowerTrio includes [[BoisterousBruiser [[MagicKnight Cai]] and a [[HandicappedBadass one-handed]] [[LightningBruiser Bedwyr?]] The realm falls because of plain old duplicity and treachery and not some [[BecauseDestinySaysSo convoluted fate?]] And where the heck is [[EnsembleDarkHorse Merlin?]]
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