History YMMV / JackKirby

14th Sep '17 6:59:38 AM Saveelich
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* MemeticBadass: The man was an army veteran, learned to street fight as a child, and was one of the most prolific artists in all of the industry. It's not a stretch to believe the story of him rolling up his sleeves and going downstairs to deal with some Nazis who were harassing him and Joe Simon. Nor is it a stretch to believe that he actively sought out people to fight as a kid to learn each neighborhood's fighting style.

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* MemeticBadass: The man was an army veteran, learned to street fight as a child, and was one of the most prolific artists in all of the industry. It's not a stretch to believe the story of him rolling up his sleeves and going downstairs to deal with some American Nazis who were harassing him and Joe Simon. Nor is it a stretch to believe that he actively sought out people to fight as a kid to learn each neighborhood's fighting style.
9th Sep '17 12:43:20 AM BeastC
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* MemeticBadass: The man was an army veteran, learned to street fight as a child, and was one of the most prolific artists in all of the industry. It's not a stretch to believe the story of him rolling up his sleeves and going downstairs to deal with some Nazis who were harassing him and Joe Simon. Nor is it a stretch to believe that he actively sought out people to fight as a kid to learn each neighborhood's fighting style.
3rd Sep '17 11:17:29 AM JulianLapostat
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* AttentionDeficitCreatorDisorder: Just imagine Kirby at his height drawing and plotting out comics with his detailed panels and pushing them out weekly during the golden age of the Marvel comics. That's a rate of productivity and creativity that is still the stuff of legends. Remember that it takes far more time to draw and lay out comics than it is to write them and as per the Marvel Method, Kirby more or less came up with [[MasterOfAll the plots, character designs and action]] entirely on his own.

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* AttentionDeficitCreatorDisorder: Just imagine Kirby at his height drawing and plotting out comics with his detailed panels and pushing them out weekly during the golden age of the Marvel comics. That's a rate of productivity and creativity that is still the stuff of legends. Remember that it takes far more time to draw and lay out comics than it is to write them and as per the Marvel Method, Kirby more or less came up with [[MasterOfAll the plots, character designs and action]] entirely on his own. This goes back to his earlier career. When he was about to sign up for the US Army, Kirby drew up ''a year's worth of comics'' as a backlog for his publishers so that he could still pump up material while on tour of duty.
22nd Aug '17 9:40:46 PM BeastC
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* VindicatedByHistory: The man had been a ButtMonkey of the industry thanks to Stan Lee getting the majority of the praise for their collaborations. It's only as time went on that true appreciation for his artwork and high influence on the medium began to grow. It helped that he was pretty ahead of his time, as noted in OlderThanTheyThink.

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* VindicatedByHistory: The man had been a ButtMonkey of the industry thanks to Stan Lee getting the majority of the praise for their collaborations. It's only as time went on that true appreciation for his artwork and high influence on the medium began to grow. It helped that he was pretty ahead of his time, as noted in OlderThanTheyThink. Hell, this very YMMV page had only one example until his centennial rapidly started approaching, at which point it blew up with WikiMagic.
11th Aug '17 6:14:37 PM JulianLapostat
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* MyRealDaddy: A good number of comics fans, comics artists, and writers, and comics historians consider Kirby to be the real creator of the Franchise/MarvelUniverse:
** For one thing, as per the Marvel Method, the artist, in this case Kirby, not only drew the panels but also came up with the scene breakdown, the actions, the costume designs, and in some cases the whole plots. Creator/StanLee himself noted that he often gave Kirby the bare outline and he would draw up the whole comic and then Lee would add the dialogue. As Creator/MarkEvanier pointed out this meant that Kirby was actually both writer and artist (in that he created the plot and situation, and action) and that it meant that Kirby was doing part of Lee's job but Lee was not doing part of Kirby's job (i.e. actually drawing the comic which takes far more time than to write it).
** Not only did Kirby wrote and drew most of Marvel's early comics but the artists who followed him were directly apprenticed under him or told by the editors to copy his style. So Kirby created the house style in addition to his own work, with the main exception being Creator/SteveDitko (who did ComicBook/DoctorStrange and Franchise/SpiderMan mainly because he couldn't match Kirby's famously productive rate).
** As per Lee himself, Kirby was more or less responsible for the Galactus trilogy, his main brief being asking him to come up with a God-like threat on which Kirby expanded and created the Silver Surfer, Galactus and the entire cosmic threat. Likewise, Ego the Living Planet was entirely Kirby as Lee admitted, noting only the latter could come up with a concept like the GeniusLoci (which had precedence in science-fiction but not in superhero fiction).


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* OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight: Not a much as others since there ''are'' good ComicBook/FantasticFour comics after he left, and Walt Simonson's ''ComicBook/TheMightyThor'' is considered the definitive run. But in terms of certain characters, everyone agrees that ComicBook/{{Galactus}} is never quite the same creation in the hands of other writers than Kirby, and Kirby insisted that he saw Galactus as a character with limited story potential. Likewise, the ComicBook/NewGods in general, and Mister Miracle in particular are rarely as great in other writers hands (though Tom King hopes to correct that).


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* ValuesDissonance: Well not as much as others but if we consider Kirby the real creator of the Marvel Universe, then he should take the blame for the fair bit of sexism in the early adventures of ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' where Susan Storm, the Invisible Girl was more or less either a prize for alpha male types (Reed, Ben, Namor), a WetBlanketWife for Reed, or a TeamMom. The fact that this lasted for more than a hundred issues meant that the famous group dynamic of the Four had too much baggage for Sue to really break away from her original character. Some scholars argue that Big Barda, certainly Kirby's most beloved female character, was an attempt by him to make up for the sexism from his Marvel years, while others point out that Kirby did work in romance comics and ''could'' write for a female audience.
11th Aug '17 10:49:47 AM JulianLapostat
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* SignatureScene: He designed some of the most iconic covers and panels in the medium, and as per the Marvel Method, he was both author and draughtsman of those scenes:
** The original cover of Fantastic Four #1 with the four battling the monster from the earth with each of them showing their unique powers and designs, the cover of Avengers #4 (the one where Captain America returns to the modern age), the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15 (Kirby had little to no say in Spider-Man's development but he ''did'' pencil and design that iconic composition).[[note]]Kirby's only involvement with Spider-Man as per Lee and Ditko was making Peter an orphan who lived with his aunt and uncle. His idea of an origin involved magic rather than science.[[/note]]
** The panels in Fantastic Four #4 where the hobo Johnny Storm runs into gets a shave and turns out to be Namor (more or less ground zero for the Marvel SharedUniverse), Mr. Fantastic in the Negative Zone, the full-page reveal of Ego the Living Planet and the opening pages of New Gods #1 showing the origin of Apokolips and New Genesis.
11th Aug '17 10:36:54 AM JulianLapostat
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** On a more contentious and bitter note, Kirby himself pointed out that many of the concepts in the Marvel years were based on the work he did earlier for DC. ComicBook/TheMightyThor, as per Kirby [[http://www.dorkly.com/post/84742/6-weird-things-about-thors-original-origin-story-nobody-talks-about began in a small DC story]] he did before. The look of Thor in the DC version is more mythologically accurate (in that he has red hair instead of blonde) but the costume look and pattern is quite similar to the Marvel appearance. Likewise, ''ComicBook/ChallengersOfTheUnknown'' which has a quartet of adventurers wearing identical jumpsuits duke out a series of bizarre threats is often seen as a dry-run for ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' although the differences outweigh the similarities in the latter case (the Challengers had no powers unlike the Fantastics, it was a team of four dudes rather than three guys and a girl[[note]]Of course during the Lee-Kirby era, Sue Storm might well have been, heh heh, invisible from the way she was written[[/note]]).

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** On a more contentious and bitter note, Kirby himself pointed out that many of the concepts in the Marvel years were based on the work he did earlier for DC. ComicBook/TheMightyThor, as per Kirby [[http://www.dorkly.com/post/84742/6-weird-things-about-thors-original-origin-story-nobody-talks-about began in a small DC story]] he did before. The look of Thor in the DC version is more mythologically accurate (in that he has red hair instead of blonde) but the costume look and pattern is quite similar to the Marvel appearance. Likewise, ''ComicBook/ChallengersOfTheUnknown'' which has a quartet of adventurers wearing identical jumpsuits duke out a series of bizarre threats is often seen as a dry-run for ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' although the differences outweigh the similarities in the latter case (the Challengers had no powers unlike the Fantastics, it was a team of four dudes rather than three guys and a girl[[note]]Of course during the Lee-Kirby era, Sue Storm might well have been, heh heh, invisible from the way she was written[[/note]]). This lends credence to the consensus (at least among comics scholars) that Kirby did the lion's share of development in the Marvel years. The Marvel Method of course meant in any case, that he had to have done the most work.
11th Aug '17 10:34:41 AM JulianLapostat
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** On a more contentious and bitter note, Kirby himself pointed out that many of the concepts in the Marvel years were based on the work he did earlier for DC. ComicBook/TheMightyThor, as per Kirby [[http://www.dorkly.com/post/84742/6-weird-things-about-thors-original-origin-story-nobody-talks-about began in a small DC story]] he did before. The look of Thor in the DC version is more mythologically accurate (in that he has red hair instead of blonde) but the costume look and pattern is quite similar to the Marvel appearance. Likewise, ''ComicBook/ChallengersOfTheUnknown'' which has a quartet of adventurers wearing identical jumpsuits duke out a series of bizarre threats is often seen as a dry-run for ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' although the differences outweigh the similarities in the latter case (the Challengers had no powers unlike the Fantastics, it was a team of four dudes rather than three guys and a girl[[note]]Of course during the Lee-Kirby era, Sue Storm might well have been, heh heh, invisible from the way she was written[[/note]].

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** On a more contentious and bitter note, Kirby himself pointed out that many of the concepts in the Marvel years were based on the work he did earlier for DC. ComicBook/TheMightyThor, as per Kirby [[http://www.dorkly.com/post/84742/6-weird-things-about-thors-original-origin-story-nobody-talks-about began in a small DC story]] he did before. The look of Thor in the DC version is more mythologically accurate (in that he has red hair instead of blonde) but the costume look and pattern is quite similar to the Marvel appearance. Likewise, ''ComicBook/ChallengersOfTheUnknown'' which has a quartet of adventurers wearing identical jumpsuits duke out a series of bizarre threats is often seen as a dry-run for ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' although the differences outweigh the similarities in the latter case (the Challengers had no powers unlike the Fantastics, it was a team of four dudes rather than three guys and a girl[[note]]Of course during the Lee-Kirby era, Sue Storm might well have been, heh heh, invisible from the way she was written[[/note]].written[[/note]]).
11th Aug '17 10:34:04 AM JulianLapostat
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** On a more contentious and bitter note, Kirby himself pointed out that many of the concepts in the Marvel years were based on the work he did earlier for DC. ComicBook/TheMightyThor, as per Kirby [[http://www.dorkly.com/post/84742/6-weird-things-about-thors-original-origin-story-nobody-talks-about began in a small DC story]] he did before. The look of Thor in the DC version is more mythologically accurate (in that he has red hair instead of blonde) but the costume look and pattern is quite similar to the Marvel appearance. Likewise, ''ComicBook/ChallengersOfTheUnknown'' which has a quartet of adventurers wearing identical jumpsuits duke out a series of bizarre threats is often seen as a dry-run for ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' although the differences outweigh the similarities in the latter case (the Challengers had no powers unlike the Fantastics, it was a team of four dudes rather than three guys and a girl[[note]]Of course during the Lee-Kirby era, Sue Storm might well have been, heh heh, invisible from the way she was written[[/note]].
3rd Aug '17 9:58:49 AM moloch
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** Everyone assumes that superhero {{Deconstruction}} and revival of forgotten characters began with Creator/AlanMoore but "King" Kirby did it first as Moore keeps pointing out. It was Kirby who brought back forgotten golden age characters like the Sub-Mariner in the Marvel Age, where in the early FF issue, Johnny Storm runs into an alcoholic hobo with a beard who after a shave turns out to be an amnesiac Namor who remembers his past and gets a DarkerAndEdgier upgrade (which is where ComicBook/{{Miracleman}} comes from). Likewise, Kirby was the one who decided to bring Captain America to the modern age in the famous Avengers issue where he was thawed out of ice and became a superhero out of time in a world vastly different from the Golden Age.

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** Everyone assumes that superhero {{Deconstruction}} and revival of forgotten characters began with Creator/AlanMoore but "King" Kirby did it first first, as Moore keeps pointing out. It was Kirby who brought back forgotten golden age Golden Age characters like the Sub-Mariner in the Marvel Age, where in the Age. In an early FF issue, Johnny Storm runs into an alcoholic hobo with a beard who who, after a shave shave, turns out to be an amnesiac Namor who remembers his past and gets a DarkerAndEdgier upgrade (which is where ComicBook/{{Miracleman}} comes from). Likewise, Kirby was the one who decided to bring Captain America to the modern age in the famous Avengers issue where he was thawed out of ice and became a superhero out of time in a world vastly different from the Golden Age.
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