History YMMV / Goblins

22nd Sep '16 8:21:05 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster:
** [[BigBadWannabe Dellyn Goblinslayer]], ranger and captain of Brassmoon city's Elite Guard, is a highly sadistic TortureTechnician and {{Fantastic Racis|m}}t whose hobby was capturing live monsters, vivisecting them to learn their weaknesses, and slowly torturing them to death. One of Dellyn's preferred tortures was using knives designed to cause certain monsters the most agony imaginable in order to permanently mutilate them by carving insults into their skin. Other tortures included amputating limbs and, in one instance, flaying the skin off of a monster's back so that her spine was clearly visible. Planning on having his Elite Guards supplant Brassmoon's current guard to increase his political power, and mistakenly believing that a goblin army was ready to attack the city, Dellyn arranged a public execution for the goblin [[spoiler:Fumbles]], who he had mutilated earlier, in order to lure the other goblins out of hiding. Once they did so, Dellyn planned on his guards annihilating the "invading forces" so that the city would back his political play. When one of his men told him that many innocent bystanders would be caught in the crossfire, [[LackOfEmpathy Dellyn was happy]], noting that this would only make the rest of the citizens more grateful for showing them what's at risk. Dellyn also had a Yuan-Ti slave named Kin, who he abducted then raped and beat on a nightly basis, repeatedly reducing her to her last hitpoint before reviving her with healing potions. Ultimately Dellyn was nothing more than a petty {{sadist}} whose desire was to be [[GloryHound worshipped as a heroic savior]] by the people he'd sacrifice without a second thought.
** [[KnightTemplar Kore]] is a dwarf {{Paladin}} who sees all "monster" races as AlwaysChaoticEvil and [[FantasticRacism indiscriminately slaughters any members of such he finds]], in a world where only demons and undead can be considered such. Even defenseless elders and those begging for mercy aren't spared. When confronted with a small dwarf child who was [[RaisedByOrcs raised by an orc]] to be a decent person and not afflicted by the FantasticRacism endemic to the setting, he [[WouldHurtAChild butchers the kid]] like any of the other humanoids he just massacred, ignoring the foster father's dying pleas to spare him, claiming the boy was hopelessly tainted. When Chief attempts a YouShallNotPass on Kore so the rest of the goblin party can escape, Kore takes down Chief, heals him so he doesn't die, and then [[ColdBloodedTorture tortures him]] so his screams of pain will lure back the rest of the group. This proves his {{hypocri|te}}sy since he uses his prey's basic moral decency against them yet still considers them irredeemable scum. When Minmax and Forgath show up, he also attacks them even though they were also fighting the goblin party. This is because Forgath is part of the Bladebeard clan, which Kore views AlwaysChaoticEvil simply because of the dwarf boy he previously killed, despite that he once viewed the clan in high regard. His only FreudianExcuse is that he was cursed to never believe his actions are anything but good, which does little to actually excuse them. Also, there is serious FridgeHorror in that either he never uses his Detect Evil, or ignores it when it reveals that his prey aren't all evil. This dovetails with his twisted world view that anyone associating with what he considers evil monsters are tainted and worthy of nothing but pitiless extermination, no rehabilitation possible.

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* CompleteMonster:
**
CompleteMonster: [[BigBadWannabe Dellyn Goblinslayer]], ranger and captain of Brassmoon city's Elite Guard, is a highly sadistic TortureTechnician and {{Fantastic Racis|m}}t whose hobby was capturing live monsters, vivisecting them to learn their weaknesses, and slowly torturing them to death. One of Dellyn's preferred tortures was using knives designed to cause certain monsters the most agony imaginable in order to permanently mutilate them by carving insults into their skin. Other tortures included amputating limbs and, in one instance, flaying the skin off of a monster's back so that her spine was clearly visible. Planning on having his Elite Guards supplant Brassmoon's current guard to increase his political power, and mistakenly believing that a goblin army was ready to attack the city, Dellyn arranged a public execution for the goblin [[spoiler:Fumbles]], who he had mutilated earlier, in order to lure the other goblins out of hiding. Once they did so, Dellyn planned on his guards annihilating the "invading forces" so that the city would back his political play. When one of his men told him that many innocent bystanders would be caught in the crossfire, [[LackOfEmpathy Dellyn was happy]], noting that this would only make the rest of the citizens more grateful for showing them what's at risk. Dellyn also had a Yuan-Ti slave named Kin, who he abducted then raped and beat on a nightly basis, repeatedly reducing her to her last hitpoint before reviving her with healing potions. Ultimately Dellyn was nothing more than a petty {{sadist}} whose desire was to be [[GloryHound worshipped as a heroic savior]] by the people he'd sacrifice without a second thought.
** [[KnightTemplar Kore]] is a dwarf {{Paladin}} who sees all "monster" races as AlwaysChaoticEvil and [[FantasticRacism indiscriminately slaughters any members of such he finds]], in a world where only demons and undead can be considered such. Even defenseless elders and those begging for mercy aren't spared. When confronted with a small dwarf child who was [[RaisedByOrcs raised by an orc]] to be a decent person and not afflicted by the FantasticRacism endemic to the setting, he [[WouldHurtAChild butchers the kid]] like any of the other humanoids he just massacred, ignoring the foster father's dying pleas to spare him, claiming the boy was hopelessly tainted. When Chief attempts a YouShallNotPass on Kore so the rest of the goblin party can escape, Kore takes down Chief, heals him so he doesn't die, and then [[ColdBloodedTorture tortures him]] so his screams of pain will lure back the rest of the group. This proves his {{hypocri|te}}sy since he uses his prey's basic moral decency against them yet still considers them irredeemable scum. When Minmax and Forgath show up, he also attacks them even though they were also fighting the goblin party. This is because Forgath is part of the Bladebeard clan, which Kore views AlwaysChaoticEvil simply because of the dwarf boy he previously killed, despite that he once viewed the clan in high regard. His only FreudianExcuse is that he was cursed to never believe his actions are anything but good, which does little to actually excuse them. Also, there is serious FridgeHorror in that either he never uses his Detect Evil, or ignores it when it reveals that his prey aren't all evil. This dovetails with his twisted world view that anyone associating with what he considers evil monsters are tainted and worthy of nothing but pitiless extermination, no rehabilitation possible.
thought.
11th Sep '16 6:41:55 PM Cakeman
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** Starting to creep in after [[spoiler:Kore kills Chief]]. That arc was grim enough, but the following horrors happening to Dies Horribly's party and to Minmax's party in their respective dungeon crawls have taken the strip into full grimdark territory that's making it hard to care.
The author himself seems to have noticed this, since he's had Saves-A-Fox, Dies Horribly, Kin, and Forgath all survive situations that would have potentially killed them, but he also destroys [[spoiler:Minmax and Kin's relationship by giving it a reset through the actions of a third party, [[CosmicRetcon retconning]] away loads of character development, with a rape allegory during their "break up" as a bonus.]]

to:

** Starting to creep in after [[spoiler:Kore kills Chief]]. That arc was grim enough, but the following horrors happening to Dies Horribly's party and to Minmax's party in their respective dungeon crawls have taken the strip into full grimdark territory that's making it hard to care.
care. The author himself seems to have noticed this, since he's had Saves-A-Fox, Dies Horribly, Kin, and Forgath all survive situations that would have potentially killed them, but he also destroys [[spoiler:Minmax and Kin's relationship by giving it a reset through the actions of a third party, [[CosmicRetcon retconning]] away loads of character development, with a rape allegory during their "break up" as a bonus.]]
9th Sep '16 12:05:34 PM Cakeman
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** And now at the end of Minmax and company dungeon crawls it just gets worse. [[spoiler:Minmax and Kin's relationship gets a reset through the actions of a third party, [[CosmicRetcon retconning]] away loads of character development, with a rape allegory during their "break up" as a bonus.]]
** The comic in general can be cited as this. The goblins are massive hypocrites who slaughter non-goblins indiscriminately and yet claim moral superiority, and yet the people they fight against ''are'' that bad. There's nobody worth siding with.

to:

** And now at the end of Minmax The author himself seems to have noticed this, since he's had Saves-A-Fox, Dies Horribly, Kin, and company dungeon crawls it just gets worse. Forgath all survive situations that would have potentially killed them, but he also destroys [[spoiler:Minmax and Kin's relationship gets by giving it a reset through the actions of a third party, [[CosmicRetcon retconning]] away loads of character development, with a rape allegory during their "break up" as a bonus.]]
** The comic in general can be cited as this. The goblins are massive hypocrites who slaughter non-goblins indiscriminately and yet claim moral superiority, and yet the people they fight against ''are'' that bad. There's nobody worth siding with.
]]
3rd Sep '16 8:56:04 AM ThatBitterTase
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Added DiffLines:

** The comic in general can be cited as this. The goblins are massive hypocrites who slaughter non-goblins indiscriminately and yet claim moral superiority, and yet the people they fight against ''are'' that bad. There's nobody worth siding with.
14th Aug '16 2:29:45 PM Eagal
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* HarsherInHindsight:
** [[http://www.goblinscomic.com/04162007/ This page.]]
** And [[http://www.goblinscomic.com/04052011/ this]] one.

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* %%* HarsherInHindsight:
** %%** [[http://www.goblinscomic.com/04162007/ This page.]]
** %%** And [[http://www.goblinscomic.com/04052011/ this]] one.
14th Aug '16 2:28:38 PM Eagal
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** [[KnightTemplar Kore]] is a dwarf {{Paladin}} who sees all "monster" races as AlwaysChaoticEvil and [[FantasticRacism indiscriminately slaughters any members of such he finds]], in a world where only demons and undead can be considered such. Even defenseless elders and those begging for mercy aren't spared. When confronted with a small dwarf child who was [[RaisedByOrcs raised by an orc]] to be a decent person and not afflicted by the FantasticRacism endemic to the setting, he [[WouldHurtAChild butchers the kid]] like any of the other humanoids he just massacred, ignoring the foster father's dying pleas to spare him, claiming the boy was hopelessly tainted. When Chief attempts a YouShallNotPass on Kore so the rest of the goblin party can escape, Kore takes down Chief, heals him so he doesn't die, and then [[ColdBloodedTorture tortures him]] so his screams of pain will lure back the rest of the group. This proves his {{hypocri|te}}sy since he uses his prey's basic moral decency against them yet still considers them irredeemable scum. When Minmax and Forgath show up, he also attacks them even though they were also fighting the goblin party. This is because Forgath is part of the Bladebeard clan, which Kore views AlwaysChaoticEvil simply because of the dwarf boy he previously killed, despite that he once viewed the clan in high regard. He has had zero FreudianExcuse revealed, although Forgath's horrified reaction to finding out Kore is there hints that something very twisted happened involving him. Also, there is serious FridgeHorror in that either he never uses his Detect Evil, or ignores it when it reveals that his prey aren't all evil. This dovetails with his twisted world view that anyone associating with what he considers evil monsters are tainted and worthy of nothing but pitiless extermination, no rehabilitation possible.

to:

** [[KnightTemplar Kore]] is a dwarf {{Paladin}} who sees all "monster" races as AlwaysChaoticEvil and [[FantasticRacism indiscriminately slaughters any members of such he finds]], in a world where only demons and undead can be considered such. Even defenseless elders and those begging for mercy aren't spared. When confronted with a small dwarf child who was [[RaisedByOrcs raised by an orc]] to be a decent person and not afflicted by the FantasticRacism endemic to the setting, he [[WouldHurtAChild butchers the kid]] like any of the other humanoids he just massacred, ignoring the foster father's dying pleas to spare him, claiming the boy was hopelessly tainted. When Chief attempts a YouShallNotPass on Kore so the rest of the goblin party can escape, Kore takes down Chief, heals him so he doesn't die, and then [[ColdBloodedTorture tortures him]] so his screams of pain will lure back the rest of the group. This proves his {{hypocri|te}}sy since he uses his prey's basic moral decency against them yet still considers them irredeemable scum. When Minmax and Forgath show up, he also attacks them even though they were also fighting the goblin party. This is because Forgath is part of the Bladebeard clan, which Kore views AlwaysChaoticEvil simply because of the dwarf boy he previously killed, despite that he once viewed the clan in high regard. He has had zero His only FreudianExcuse revealed, although Forgath's horrified reaction to finding out Kore is there hints that something very twisted happened involving him.he was cursed to never believe his actions are anything but good, which does little to actually excuse them. Also, there is serious FridgeHorror in that either he never uses his Detect Evil, or ignores it when it reveals that his prey aren't all evil. This dovetails with his twisted world view that anyone associating with what he considers evil monsters are tainted and worthy of nothing but pitiless extermination, no rehabilitation possible.
18th Jul '16 7:31:05 AM DarkMask
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* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Dies Horribly is supposed to be viewed as TheWoobie because he's destined to... well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin die horribly]]. Except, in the world of Goblins ''most'' of the characters who die do so quite horribly, including most of the goblin war camp being slaughtered by adventurers, and K'Sellis (who was part of Dies's party) having one of the most [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath Family Unfriendly Deaths]] in the comic. Moreover, most monstrous characters know full well they will probably die horribly one day, especially if they willingly engage player characters, and are still able to act brave and noble and lead rich lives, while Dies Horribly constantly acts like a coward and moans about his fate (even though at one point he tries to convince Fox he's accepted his fate already). It sometimes comes to the point where you really wish someone would just smack Dies across the head and tell him "just because you're going to die horribly, doesn't mean you have to ''live'' horribly!"

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Dies Horribly is supposed to be viewed as TheWoobie because he's destined to... well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin die horribly]]. Except, in the world of Goblins ''most'' of the characters who die do so quite horribly, including most of the goblin war camp being slaughtered by adventurers, and K'Sellis (who was part of Dies's party) having one of the most [[FamilyUnfriendlyDeath Family Unfriendly Deaths]] in the comic. Moreover, most monstrous characters know full well they will probably die horribly one day, especially if they willingly engage player characters, and are still able to act brave and noble and lead rich lives, while Dies Horribly constantly acts like a coward and moans about his fate (even though at one point he tries to convince Fox he's accepted his fate already). It sometimes comes to the point where you really wish someone would just smack Dies across the head and tell him "just because you're going to die horribly, doesn't mean you have to ''live'' horribly!"horribly!" [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160715.jpg This guest comic]] actually sort of does just that (although without the smacking).
13th Jul '16 3:54:48 PM Eagal
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature to be quick to condemn and believe he is in the right for doing so. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature to be quick to condemn and believe he is in the right for doing so. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its it's because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.
17th Jun '16 7:10:33 PM DarkMask
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature to be quick to condemn and believe he is in the right for doing so. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its it because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature to be quick to condemn and believe he is in the right for doing so. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its it because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.
17th Jun '16 9:36:21 AM DarkMask
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its it because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.

to:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: [[http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20160617.jpg This comic]] finally sheds some light on the mythos of [[ThePaladin Paladins]] in this setting, more specifically, how ObviouslyEvil Kore can keep his Paladin powers, despite Paladins generally having to be AlwaysLawfulGood. Basically, Ears describes it that although Kore may be a villain and even 'evil' that's not the way he views himself, at no point does Kore ever feel he has committed an evil act or gone against his Paladin's oath, its just his nature.nature to be quick to condemn and believe he is in the right for doing so. This explains how Ears can be penalized for attacking Kore despite Kore having tortured and killed their chief, its it because he attacked someone he knew was a paladin from behind, an act he knew was against his oath yet he committed it anyways.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Goblins