History YMMV / Genesis

8th Feb '16 5:37:25 AM Freshmeat
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*** Side one hell. The whole album is generally considered a masterpiece and the band's MagnumOpus. [[note]]Although many, including Phil Collins himself, feel that the album gets progressively weaker towards the end[[/note]] Probably not the place to start for someone new to the band though - ''Foxtrot'' and ''Selling England'' are good choices.
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*** Side one hell. The whole album is generally considered a masterpiece and the band's MagnumOpus.masterpiece. [[note]]Although many, including Phil Collins himself, feel that the album gets progressively weaker towards the end[[/note]] Probably not the place to start for someone new to the band though - ''Foxtrot'' and ''Selling England'' are good choices.
6th Feb '16 12:19:59 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* MagnumOpus: ''Foxtrot'', ''Selling England by the Pound'', or ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'' for the prog era. Probably ''Duke'' or ''Invisible Touch'' for the pop era.
30th Jan '16 12:47:58 AM PrincessTogezo
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** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage. ** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), or did it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when Steve Hackett left)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop. ** Even the all-era fans are heavily divided on the quality of the individual songs "Who Dunnit?" (from ''Abacab'') and "Illegal Alien" (from ''Genesis''). Some fans think the songs are hilarious, while others think the former song is [[BrokenRecord annoying]] and the latter is [[ValuesDissonance awkward]].
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** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, tenure as lead singer, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage. ** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after was their last truly good album ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), (the last album with Gabriel), or did was it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when (the last album with Steve Hackett left)? Hackett)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop. ** Among the fans who consider ''Invisible Touch'' to be a bad album, there's a debate on whether ''We Can't Dance'' was an improvement (due to some of the more prog-like songs such as "Driving the Last Spike" and "Fading Lights") or just another throwaway pop album (due to the poppier songs such as "I Can't Dance" and "Jesus He Knows Me"). ** Even the all-era fans are heavily divided on the quality of the individual songs certain songs; "Who Dunnit?" (from ''Abacab'') and "Illegal Alien" (from ''Genesis''). Some fans think ''Genesis'') tend to get the songs are hilarious, while others think worst of this. While the former is very often thought of as the band's worst song is [[BrokenRecord annoying]] and by a wide margin, fans are divided on whether the song's over-the-top nature makes it SoBadItsGood or just plain bad. The latter is doesn't get quite as much heat, but many fans consider it [[ValuesDissonance awkward]].too awkward]] to laugh at nowadays, not just for the stereotypes, but also for being a song poking fun at a serious political issue regarding Mexican immigration to America (which is still a hot-button topic decades after the song's release).

* EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory: Some fans have come up with some rather ''interesting'' interpretations for various songs, including the theory that the [[TheEighties Eighties]] pop album ''Invisible Touch'' is a [[EpilepticTrees concept album about nuclear war]].
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* EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory: Some fans have come up with some rather ''interesting'' interpretations for various songs, including the theory that the [[TheEighties Eighties]] pop album ''Invisible Touch'' is a [[EpilepticTrees concept album about nuclear war]].war]] (or, according to one [=SongMeanings=] user, that all the songs on that album, except for "The Brazilian", are secretly {{Religion Rant Song}}s).

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* EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory: Some fans have come up with some rather ''interesting'' interpretations for various songs, including FunnyAneurysmMoment: Considering what has gone on in Phil's love life since ''...And Then There Were Three...'' was released (he and his first wife went through a nasty divorce not long after the theory that the [[TheEighties Eighties]] pop album ''Invisible Touch'' is was released, and he later had two more failed marriages, though he has since gotten back together with his third wife), it's a [[EpilepticTrees concept album about nuclear war]].little bit awkward to hear him singing "Follow You, Follow Me", a song where the narrator hopes his loved one will always stay with him.[[note]][[HeartwarmingInHindsight On the other hand]], both Mike (who wrote the song's lyrics) and Tony were {{happily married}} to their respective wives at the time, and still are to this day.[[/note]]
6th Nov '15 6:00:41 PM PrincessTogezo
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* BrokenBase: Oh God, and how! Gabriel vs. Collins, Collins vs. Wilson, etc. etc. etc.
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* BrokenBase: Oh God, and how! To name just a few points of contention: ** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter Gabriel vs. Collins, or Phil Collins vs. Wilson, etc. etc. etc.was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage. ** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), or did it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when Steve Hackett left)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop.

* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + the Mechanics.
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* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + the Mechanics.Mechanics, and Steve Hackett remains a well-respected figure in the progressive rock community to this day (it helps that, in concerts, he often performs old Genesis songs in addition to his original songs).

* ScapegoatCreator: Again, as mentioned under FaceOfTheBand and {{Misblamed}}, the fans who reject the band's pop-oriented material tend to place the blame for it squarely on Phil Collins. Even though both Tony Banks and especially Mike Rutherford wanted to write pop songs as well, and the trio eventually developed a democratic songwriting system where, if two band members didn't like a song idea that the third proposed, they would vote it down (so if Banks and Rutherford were against changing the band's sound as much as members of Collins' hatedom say they were, the albums from ''Genesis'' onward would have been a return to the progressive rock sound instead of the pop albums they are).
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* ScapegoatCreator: Again, as mentioned under FaceOfTheBand and {{Misblamed}}, the fans who reject the band's pop-oriented material tend to place the blame for it squarely on Phil Collins. Even though both Tony Banks and especially Mike Rutherford wanted to write pop songs as well, and the trio eventually developed a democratic songwriting system where, if two band members didn't like a song idea that the third proposed, they would vote it down (so if Banks and Rutherford were against changing the band's sound as much as members of Collins' hatedom say they were, then theoretically, the albums from ''Genesis'' onward would should have been more of a return to the progressive rock sound instead of the pop albums they are).

* TastesLikeDiabetes: A lot of the more popular songs put out during the Collins-led era, ''especially'' love songs. Special mention goes to "Follow You Follow Me" and ''We Can't Dance'''s "Hold On My Heart".
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* TastesLikeDiabetes: A lot of the more popular songs put out during the Collins-led era, ''especially'' love songs. Special mention goes to "Follow You Follow Me" and ''We Can't Dance'''s "Hold On My Heart".Heart" (although for many fans, those two songs fall under this category in [[SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments the best]] [[SugarWiki/SweetDreamsFuel possible way]]).
24th Jul '15 2:08:32 PM PrincessTogezo
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** Music/PeterGabriel's theatricality, masks and costumes were a focal point of the band[[note]]He says that the decision to dress up came from a combination of shyness (so he could pretend to be someone else on stage) and because the rest of the band took too long to retune their instruments between songs, so he had to vamp and tell the overarching stories of their albums to keep the audience engaged[[/note]], to the point that many feared the band wouldn't be able to survive without him. It didn't help matters that the media thought Gabriel wrote all of the material (they credited the writing to "Genesis" to avoid in-fighting) and was responsible for all of the sound and creativity of the band. This is why post-Peter albums started crediting individual writers in the band (which actually did lead to in-group arguing and the departure of Steve Hackett) on the album sleeves, at least until they began writing as a democratic group in TheEighties.
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** Music/PeterGabriel's theatricality, masks and costumes were a focal point of the band[[note]]He says that the decision to dress up came from a combination of shyness (so he could pretend to be someone else on stage) and because the rest of the band took too long to retune their instruments between songs, so he had to vamp and tell the overarching stories of their albums to keep the audience engaged[[/note]], to the point that many feared the band wouldn't be able to survive without him.him (when he left, the media was quick to declare that Genesis was dead, prompting the rest of the band to clarify that no, they weren't planning on breaking up). It didn't help matters that the media thought Gabriel wrote all of the material (they credited the writing to "Genesis" to avoid in-fighting) and was responsible for all of the sound and creativity of the band. This is why post-Peter albums started crediting individual writers in the band (which actually did lead to in-group arguing and the departure of Steve Hackett) on the album sleeves, at least until they began writing as a democratic group in TheEighties.

** Many people, [[CanonDiscontinuity including the band themselves]] tend to pretend that the album ''Calling All Stations'' never happened. None of the songs from that album were performed on [[PuttingTheBandBackTogether the recent reunion tour]].
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** Many people, [[CanonDiscontinuity including the band themselves]] tend to pretend that the album ''Calling All Stations'' never happened. None of the songs from that album were performed on [[PuttingTheBandBackTogether the recent 2006-2007 reunion tour]].

** Phil Collins ''and'' Peter Gabriel {{Jossed}} the accusations that as Phil had some reservations with some of Peter's more elaborate theatrics (and how they threatenened to overshadow the music) by ''The Lamb''[[note]]in particular the Slipperman costume, which was by even Peter's admittance was so bulky that it was hard to breathe in it, let along get a microphone near it[[/note]], that Phil was trying to edge Peter out of the group and take over. Phil not only was quite comfortable as drummer and background vocalist, and sad to see Peter leave (they remain friends to this day), but even after having recorded ''A Trick of the Tail'', was still planning to hire a formal lead vocalist to go on the road. Collins was reluctant to take on the vocalist/frontman role, only doing so as the band could find no proper replacement for Peter. Collins had even at first, with no disrespect to Peter, suggested that the band could pursue the option of continuing on as an instrumental group.
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** Phil Collins ''and'' Peter Gabriel {{Jossed}} the accusations that as Phil had some reservations with some of Peter's more elaborate theatrics (and how they threatenened to overshadow the music) by ''The Lamb''[[note]]in particular the Slipperman costume, which was by even Peter's admittance was so bulky that it was hard to breathe in it, let along alone get a microphone near it[[/note]], that Phil was trying to edge Peter out of the group and take over. Phil not only was quite comfortable as drummer and background vocalist, and sad to see Peter leave (they remain friends to this day), but even after having recorded ''A Trick of the Tail'', was still planning to hire a formal lead vocalist to go on the road. Collins was reluctant to take on the vocalist/frontman role, only doing so as the band could find no proper replacement for Peter. Collins had even at first, with no disrespect to Peter, suggested that the band could pursue the option of continuing on as an instrumental group.

** The song "Match of the Day" from the ''Spot the Pigeon'' EP was, for a while, extremely hard to find if one didn't have that EP, since Phil Collins was not very proud of the song at all.
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** The song "Match of the Day" from the ''Spot the Pigeon'' EP was, for a while, extremely hard to find if one didn't have that EP, since Phil Collins was not very proud of the song at all. (He wasn't very proud of "Me and Virgil" from the ''3 X 3'' EP, either.)

** The * ScapegoatCreator: Again, as mentioned under FaceOfTheBand and {{Misblamed}}, the fans who reject the band's pop-oriented material tend to place the blame for it squarely on Phil Collins. Even though both Tony Banks and especially Mike Rutherford wanted to write pop songs as well, and the trio eventually developed a democratic songwriting system where, if two band members didn't like a song "Match idea that the third proposed, they would vote it down (so if Banks and Rutherford were against changing the band's sound as much as members of Collins' hatedom say they were, the albums from ''Genesis'' onward would have been a return to the progressive rock sound instead of the Day" from the ''Spot the Pigeon'' EP was, for a while, extremely hard to find if one didn't have that EP, since Phil Collins was not very proud of the song at all.pop albums they are).

* SpecialEffectFailure: In a documentary, Collins said ''TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'' had at least one in every show they did. For example, one scene required two explosions onstage revealing Gabriel and a mannequin dressed as Gabriel to represent Rael's dual personality. The pyrotechnic expert was a bit overzealous on the explosives, resulting in a charred mannequin.
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* SpecialEffectFailure: In a documentary, Collins said ''TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'' ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'' had at least one in every show they did. For example, one scene required two explosions onstage revealing Gabriel and a mannequin dressed as Gabriel to represent Rael's dual personality. The pyrotechnic expert was a bit overzealous on the explosives, resulting in a charred mannequin.

* ToughActToFollow: What happened after ''TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'', until the band switched genres.
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* ToughActToFollow: What happened after ''TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'', ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'', until the band switched genres.
1st Jun '15 11:39:38 PM kyeo
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* Also, "Illegal Alien" pokes fun at a rather serious problem; the poverty of Latin American would-be immigrants attempting to enter the USA. Unfortunately, the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61hzuGGJX0 video]] took it UpToEleven, with the band sporting stereotypically Mexican outfits and engaging in allegedly comic south of the border shenanigans to the point of racist caricature.
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* ** Also, "Illegal Alien" pokes fun at a rather serious problem; the poverty of Latin American would-be immigrants attempting to enter the USA. Unfortunately, the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61hzuGGJX0 video]] took it UpToEleven, with the band sporting stereotypically Mexican outfits and engaging in allegedly comic south of the border shenanigans to the point of racist caricature.
1st Jun '15 11:39:17 PM kyeo
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Added DiffLines:
* Also, "Illegal Alien" pokes fun at a rather serious problem; the poverty of Latin American would-be immigrants attempting to enter the USA. Unfortunately, the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61hzuGGJX0 video]] took it UpToEleven, with the band sporting stereotypically Mexican outfits and engaging in allegedly comic south of the border shenanigans to the point of racist caricature.
26th May '15 1:42:38 PM CassandraLeo
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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Oh, so many. "Watcher Of The Skies" from ''Foxtrot'' immediately springs to mind. ** Also, "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Dance On A Volcano", "Firth Of Fifth", "Los Endos" and the ending sections of "The Musical Box", "Music/SuppersReady" and "Cinema Show".
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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Oh, so many. "Watcher Of The of the Skies" from ''Foxtrot'' immediately springs to mind. ** Also, "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Dance On A on a Volcano", "Firth Of of Fifth", "Los Endos" and the ending sections of "The Musical Box", "Music/SuppersReady" and "Cinema Show".

** For the post-Gabriel era: "One for the Vine", the "Duke" suite, "Home By The Sea," "Domino," and the various live medleys all come to mind.
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** For the post-Gabriel era: "One for the Vine", the "Duke" ''Duke'' suite, "Home By The by the Sea," "Domino," and the various live medleys all come to mind.

* CrossesTheLineTwice: "Harold The Barrel" from the album ''Nursery Cryme''.
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* CrossesTheLineTwice: "Harold The the Barrel" from the album ''Nursery Cryme''.

* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + The Mechanics.
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* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + The the Mechanics.

** That majority of old fans were actually quite happy with Phil Collins until the band got poppier to match his solo career. The albums "A Trick Of The Tail" and "Wind And Wuthering" are usually as well loved as the Gabriel albums.
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** That The majority of old fans were actually quite happy with Phil Collins until the band got poppier to match his solo career. The albums "A ''A Trick Of The Tail" of the Tail'' and "Wind And Wuthering" ''Wind & Wuthering'' are usually as well loved as the Gabriel albums.albums, or at least nearly so.

** "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)", "The Silent Sun", "Happy The Man", "Twilight Alehouse", and "Counting Out Time" were earlier attempts at commercial singles, yet were still too quirky and progressive-sounding for commercial success. They weren't really ''opposed'' to the idea of radio success, just unlucky with their attempts to get a hit single. ** Phil Collins ''and'' Peter Gabriel {{Jossed}} the accusations that as Phil had some reservations with some of Peter's more elaborate theatrics (and how they threatenened to overshadow the music) by ''The Lamb''[[note]]in particular the Slipperman costume, which was by even Peter's admittance was so bulky that it was hard to breathe in it, let along get a microphone near it[[/note]], that Phil was trying to edge Peter out of the group and take over. Phil not only was quite comfortable as drummer and background vocalist, and sad to see Peter leave (they remain friends to this day), but even after having recorded ''A Trick Of The Tail'', was still planning to hire a formal lead vocalist to go on the road. Collins was reluctant to take on the vocalist/frontman role, only doing so as the band could find no proper replacement for Peter. Collins had even at first, with no disrespect to Peter, suggested that the band could pursue the option of continuing on as an instrumental group.
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** "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)", "The Silent Sun", "Happy The the Man", "Twilight Alehouse", and "Counting Out Time" were earlier attempts at commercial singles, yet were still too quirky and progressive-sounding for commercial success. They weren't really ''opposed'' to the idea of radio success, just unlucky with their attempts to get a hit single. ** Phil Collins ''and'' Peter Gabriel {{Jossed}} the accusations that as Phil had some reservations with some of Peter's more elaborate theatrics (and how they threatenened to overshadow the music) by ''The Lamb''[[note]]in particular the Slipperman costume, which was by even Peter's admittance was so bulky that it was hard to breathe in it, let along get a microphone near it[[/note]], that Phil was trying to edge Peter out of the group and take over. Phil not only was quite comfortable as drummer and background vocalist, and sad to see Peter leave (they remain friends to this day), but even after having recorded ''A Trick Of The of the Tail'', was still planning to hire a formal lead vocalist to go on the road. Collins was reluctant to take on the vocalist/frontman role, only doing so as the band could find no proper replacement for Peter. Collins had even at first, with no disrespect to Peter, suggested that the band could pursue the option of continuing on as an instrumental group.

* OldShame: Despite the song as a whole being nearly universally considered CrowningMusicOfAwesome, the ''lyrics'' to Firth of Fifth are considered by Music/TonyBanks to be some of the worst he's ever written. On the reunion tour, they cut the lyrics out entirely and just played the [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome epic middle section]] as an instrumental. ** The entire band has been similarly negative about ''...And Then There Were Three'', recorded in the midst of Hackett's departure and Collins' divorce; the three recording members felt they were making an album simply to make an album.
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* OldShame: Despite the song as a whole being nearly universally considered CrowningMusicOfAwesome, the ''lyrics'' to Firth "Firth of Fifth Fifth" are considered by Music/TonyBanks to be some of the worst he's ever written. On the reunion tour, they cut the lyrics out entirely and just played the [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome epic middle section]] as an instrumental. ** The entire band has been similarly negative about ''...And Then There Were Three'', Three...'', recorded in the midst of Hackett's departure and Collins' divorce; the three recording members felt they were making an album simply to make an album.

* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: The Carpet Crawlers was a long established classic in the band's oeuvre, so when the classic lineup regrouped to rerecord in 1999, many groaned and wondered what the point was. However, when they heard it, a lot of people changed their minds. The rerecording takes the original melody and improves the dramatic qualities of the song. In the original, the melody line is mostly driven by an arpeggiated organ, the drums are not really propulsive, and Peter Gabriel's voice couldn't quite handle the low notes. In the rerecording, all these issues are addressed, and while the song may seem a bit sleek, it ''works''.
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* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: The "The Carpet Crawlers Crawlers" was a long established classic in the band's oeuvre, so when the classic lineup regrouped to rerecord in 1999, many groaned and wondered what the point was. However, when they heard it, a lot of people changed their minds. The rerecording takes the original melody and improves the dramatic qualities of the song. In the original, the melody line is mostly driven by an arpeggiated organ, the drums are not really propulsive, and Peter Gabriel's voice couldn't quite handle the low notes. In the rerecording, all these issues are addressed, and while the song may seem a bit sleek, it ''works''.
24th Apr '15 7:09:43 PM PrincessTogezo
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Not that they wren't big anywhere else, but they were ''huge'' in Italy, and pretty much from day one (Genesis's Italian pic sleeve singles are usually unique and very collectable). Similarly, ''Trespass'', released to obscurity in England, was the number one album in Belgium shortly after release, leading to a hasty tour of the continent.
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Not that they wren't weren't big anywhere else, but they were ''huge'' in Italy, and pretty much from day one (Genesis's Italian pic sleeve singles are usually unique and very collectable). Similarly, ''Trespass'', released to obscurity in England, was the number one album in Belgium shortly after release, leading to a hasty tour of the continent.

** "Who Dunnit?" from ''Abacab''. It was written more or less as a joke, then the joke was taken even further by incorporating it into the tour setlist. To drive the point home, Mike Rutherford plays the ''drums''.
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** "Who Dunnit?" from ''Abacab''. It was written more or less as a joke, then the joke was taken even further by incorporating it into the tour setlist. To drive the point home, in live performances of the song, Mike Rutherford plays the ''drums''.

** "Firth of Daryl [[note]] Referring to touring guitarist Daryl Steurmer taking Steve Hackett's epic "Firth of Fifth" middle section and turning it into a Van Halenesque generic guitar solo [[/note]]," along with many other examples of the Collins-era band trying to cover Gabriel-era material. On the other hand, Gabriel actually praised Collins' renditions of his songs, claiming that Collins "sang them better" than he did. [[labelnote:Although...]]He did have mixed feelings about Collins' rendition of "Music/SuppersReady", but that was mainly because the song was so personal to him; he compared it to seeing someone trying on your old clothes and being unsure if they'll fit.[[/labelnote]] ** Can also, oddly enough, refer to the band's choice of equipment. Hardcore fans blame the Korg Wavestation for Tony Banks' muddy, generic sound in the 1990's, and many (and occasionally even bandmembers) will point out that quite a few of the older songs don't sound particularly well on anything but the old, worn-out, tempermental machines they were recorded on [[note]]In particular, "Watcher of the Skies" was recorded on a [=MkII=] Mellotron, an analogue sampler using magnetic tape, and one not meant for anything but studio use. When it finally broke for the last time, the band switched to a "portable" Mellotron M400, which sucked the life out of the song and led to its retirement[[/note]]. And let's not get into Phil Collins and drum machines...
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** "Firth of Daryl [[note]] Daryl"[[note]] Referring to touring guitarist Daryl Steurmer taking Steve Hackett's epic "Firth of Fifth" middle section and turning it into a Van Halenesque Music/VanHalen-esque generic guitar solo [[/note]]," solo[[/note]], along with many other examples of the Collins-era band trying to cover Gabriel-era material. On the other hand, Gabriel actually praised Collins' renditions of his songs, claiming that Collins "sang them better" than he did. [[labelnote:Although...]]He did have mixed feelings about Collins' rendition of "Music/SuppersReady", but that was mainly because the song was so personal to him; he compared it to seeing someone trying on your old clothes and being unsure if they'll fit.[[/labelnote]] ** Can also, oddly enough, refer to the band's choice of equipment. Hardcore fans blame the Korg Wavestation for Tony Banks' muddy, generic sound in the 1990's, and many (and occasionally even bandmembers) will point out that quite a few of the older songs don't sound particularly well on anything but the old, worn-out, tempermental temperamental machines they were recorded on [[note]]In particular, "Watcher of the Skies" was recorded on a [=MkII=] Mellotron, an analogue sampler using magnetic tape, and one not meant for anything but studio use. When it finally broke for the last time, the band switched to a "portable" Mellotron M400, which sucked the life out of the song and led to its retirement[[/note]]. And let's not get into Phil Collins and drum machines...
22nd Apr '15 6:16:31 PM bt8257
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* {{Anvilicious}}: Phil Collins' attempts at setting himself up as an artist with a social conscience were less than impressive - "Tell Me Why" was especially embarassing. Rutherford didn't fare much better - "Music/LandOfConfusion" was only saved by its sheer energy and the popular ''Series/SpittingImage'' video. * ArchivePanic: With over forty years' worth of material plus [[strike: [[KeepCirculatingTheTapes all kinds of bootlegs and]]]] each member's solo material, new fans can find it all a bit daunting.
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\n* {{Anvilicious}}: Phil Collins' attempts at setting himself up as an artist with a social conscience were less than impressive - "Tell Me Why" was especially embarassing. Rutherford didn't fare much better - "Music/LandOfConfusion" was only saved by its sheer energy and the popular ''Series/SpittingImage'' video.\n* ArchivePanic: With over forty years' worth of material plus [[strike: [[KeepCirculatingTheTapes all kinds of bootlegs and]]]] and]] each member's solo material, new fans can find it all a bit daunting.
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