History YMMV / Genesis

30th Apr '16 8:09:20 AM 123456789
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* SophomoreSlump: Averted with ''Trespass'', almost universally considered a huge improvement over ''From Genesis to Revelation''. The band had kept writing songs during their early tours and cherry-picked the numbers that went over especially well for the album.

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* SophomoreSlump: Averted Averted, if not Inverted with ''Trespass'', almost universally considered a huge improvement over ''From Genesis to Revelation''. The band had kept writing songs during their early tours and cherry-picked the numbers that went over especially well for the album.



** "Firth of Daryl"[[note]] Referring to touring guitarist Daryl Steurmer taking Steve Hackett's epic "Firth of Fifth" middle section and turning it into a Music/VanHalen-esque generic guitar solo[[/note]], along with many other examples of the Collins-era band trying to cover Gabriel-era material. On the other hand, Gabriel actually praised Collins' renditions of his songs, claiming that Collins "sang them better" than he did. [[labelnote:Although...]]He did have mixed feelings about Collins' rendition of "Music/SuppersReady", but that was mainly because the song was so personal to him; he compared it to seeing someone trying on your old clothes and being unsure if they'll fit.[[/labelnote]]

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** "Firth of Daryl"[[note]] Referring to touring guitarist Daryl Steurmer taking Steve Hackett's epic "Firth of Fifth" middle section and turning it into a Music/VanHalen-esque generic guitar solo[[/note]], along with many other examples of the Collins-era band trying to cover Gabriel-era material. On the other hand, Gabriel actually praised Collins' renditions of his songs, claiming that Collins "sang them better" than he did. [[labelnote:Although...]]He did have mixed feelings about Collins' rendition of "Music/SuppersReady", [[JustifiedTrope but that was mainly because the song was so personal to him; him]]; he compared it to seeing someone trying on your old clothes and being unsure if they'll fit.[[/labelnote]]
17th Mar '16 4:34:53 PM 123456789
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* [[TookTheBadFilmSeriously Took The Bad Album Seriously]]: Ray Wilson, whose work with Genesis, and the album, ''Calling All Stations'', resulting it, was killed by fan indifference before it could begin, has seemed to parlay that brief time into a substantial career. To this day, he still performs songs from ''Calling All Stations'' live and recently appeared as a guest singer at Steve Hackett's 2013 ''Genesis Revisited II'' show at the Royal Albert Hall.

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* [[TookTheBadFilmSeriously Took The Bad Album Seriously]]: Ray Wilson, whose work with Genesis, and Genesis on the album, album ''Calling All Stations'', resulting it, which was killed by fan indifference before it could begin, outright panned, has seemed to parlay that his brief time stint into a substantial career. To this day, he still performs songs from ''Calling All Stations'' live and recently appeared as a guest singer at Steve Hackett's 2013 ''Genesis Revisited II'' show at the Royal Albert Hall.
17th Mar '16 4:29:55 PM 123456789
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Added DiffLines:

* [[TookTheBadFilmSeriously Took The Bad Album Seriously]]: Ray Wilson, whose work with Genesis, and the album, ''Calling All Stations'', resulting it, was killed by fan indifference before it could begin, has seemed to parlay that brief time into a substantial career. To this day, he still performs songs from ''Calling All Stations'' live and recently appeared as a guest singer at Steve Hackett's 2013 ''Genesis Revisited II'' show at the Royal Albert Hall.
15th Feb '16 6:09:05 AM 123456789
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** While averting this when succeding him as the above, Collins following Gabriel into a solo career; it was Johnny Carson who once introduced him as "The man who made a career out of being not as good as Peter Gabriel."
** In a certain sense, Daryl Stuermer's guitar and bass work, along with Chester Thompson's drumming, might get compared and contrasted to the musicians whose contributions they have to recreate in live performance. This might ''especially'' be the case for Daryl's recreations of Steve Hackett's guitar work, as unlike Mike Rutherford or Phil Collins, Hackett's physical presence onstage is missing from the trio-era lineup.

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** While averting this when succeding him Gabriel as the above, lead singer, Collins following Gabriel him into a solo career; it was Johnny Carson who once introduced him as "The man who made a career out of being not as good as Peter Gabriel."
** In a certain sense, the rhythm section of Daryl Stuermer's guitar Stuermer (guitar, bass) and bass work, along with Chester Thompson's drumming, Thompson (drums) might get compared and contrasted to the musicians whose contributions they have to recreate in live performance. This might ''especially'' be the case for Daryl's recreations of Steve Hackett's guitar work, as unlike Mike Rutherford or Phil Collins, Hackett's physical presence onstage is missing from the trio-era lineup.
15th Feb '16 6:04:01 AM 123456789
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* CultClassic: Of ALL things, ''Calling All Stations'', the sole album recorded with Ray Wilson.
15th Feb '16 5:59:41 AM 123456789
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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Oh, so many. "Watcher of the Skies" from ''Foxtrot'' immediately springs to mind.

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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Oh, so many. "Watcher of the Skies" from ''Foxtrot'' immediately springs to mind.mind, what with its epic intro played on the Mellotron.



* BrokenBase: Oh God, and how! To name just a few points of contention:

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* BrokenBase: [[BigOMG Oh God, My God]], and how! To name just a few points of contention:



** Their first album also qualifies. Not only were Phil and Steve not on it[[note]]They weren't on the second album, ''Trespass'', either, but that album is closer to the band's typical style than the first one, and fans (and the band) still consider it a good album[[/note]], but the band does not own the rights to it, and it is distributed to the few who want to hear it by another company. Thus, most official discographies and catalogues make no mention of it. It's also pretty different from even their second album. Several demo pieces from it (missing the shitty string section [[ExecutiveMeddling forced on the band by manager Jonathan King]]) did make it onto the band's first box set.

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** Their first album also qualifies. Not only were Phil and Steve not on it[[note]]They weren't on the second album, ''Trespass'', either, but that album is closer to the band's typical style than the first one, and fans (and the band) still consider it a good album[[/note]], but the band does not own the rights to it, and it is distributed to the few who want to hear it by another company. Thus, most official discographies and catalogues make no mention of it. It's also pretty different from even their second album. Several demo pieces from it (missing the shitty excuse of a string section [[ExecutiveMeddling forced on the band by manager Jonathan King]]) did make it onto the band's first box set.



** Collins following Gabriel into a solo career; it was Johnny Carson who once introduced him as "The man who made a career out of being not as good as Peter Gabriel."

to:

** While averting this when succeding him as the above, Collins following Gabriel into a solo career; it was Johnny Carson who once introduced him as "The man who made a career out of being not as good as Peter Gabriel."
8th Feb '16 5:37:25 AM Freshmeat
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*** Side one hell. The whole album is generally considered a masterpiece and the band's MagnumOpus. [[note]]Although many, including Phil Collins himself, feel that the album gets progressively weaker towards the end[[/note]] Probably not the place to start for someone new to the band though - ''Foxtrot'' and ''Selling England'' are good choices.

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*** Side one hell. The whole album is generally considered a masterpiece and the band's MagnumOpus.masterpiece. [[note]]Although many, including Phil Collins himself, feel that the album gets progressively weaker towards the end[[/note]] Probably not the place to start for someone new to the band though - ''Foxtrot'' and ''Selling England'' are good choices.
6th Feb '16 12:19:59 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* MagnumOpus: ''Foxtrot'', ''Selling England by the Pound'', or ''Music/TheLambLiesDownOnBroadway'' for the prog era. Probably ''Duke'' or ''Invisible Touch'' for the pop era.
30th Jan '16 12:47:58 AM PrincessTogezo
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** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage.
** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), or did it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when Steve Hackett left)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop.
** Even the all-era fans are heavily divided on the quality of the individual songs "Who Dunnit?" (from ''Abacab'') and "Illegal Alien" (from ''Genesis''). Some fans think the songs are hilarious, while others think the former song is [[BrokenRecord annoying]] and the latter is [[ValuesDissonance awkward]].

to:

** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter Gabriel or Phil Collins was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, tenure as lead singer, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage.
** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after was their last truly good album ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), (the last album with Gabriel), or did was it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when (the last album with Steve Hackett left)? Hackett)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop.
** Among the fans who consider ''Invisible Touch'' to be a bad album, there's a debate on whether ''We Can't Dance'' was an improvement (due to some of the more prog-like songs such as "Driving the Last Spike" and "Fading Lights") or just another throwaway pop album (due to the poppier songs such as "I Can't Dance" and "Jesus He Knows Me").
**
Even the all-era fans are heavily divided on the quality of the individual songs certain songs; "Who Dunnit?" (from ''Abacab'') and "Illegal Alien" (from ''Genesis''). Some fans think ''Genesis'') tend to get the songs are hilarious, while others think worst of this. While the former is very often thought of as the band's worst song is [[BrokenRecord annoying]] and by a wide margin, fans are divided on whether the song's over-the-top nature makes it SoBadItsGood or just plain bad. The latter is doesn't get quite as much heat, but many fans consider it [[ValuesDissonance awkward]].too awkward]] to laugh at nowadays, not just for the stereotypes, but also for being a song poking fun at a serious political issue regarding Mexican immigration to America (which is still a hot-button topic decades after the song's release).



* EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory: Some fans have come up with some rather ''interesting'' interpretations for various songs, including the theory that the [[TheEighties Eighties]] pop album ''Invisible Touch'' is a [[EpilepticTrees concept album about nuclear war]].

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* EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory: Some fans have come up with some rather ''interesting'' interpretations for various songs, including the theory that the [[TheEighties Eighties]] pop album ''Invisible Touch'' is a [[EpilepticTrees concept album about nuclear war]].war]] (or, according to one [=SongMeanings=] user, that all the songs on that album, except for "The Brazilian", are secretly {{Religion Rant Song}}s).


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* FunnyAneurysmMoment: Considering what has gone on in Phil's love life since ''...And Then There Were Three...'' was released (he and his first wife went through a nasty divorce not long after the album was released, and he later had two more failed marriages, though he has since gotten back together with his third wife), it's a little bit awkward to hear him singing "Follow You, Follow Me", a song where the narrator hopes his loved one will always stay with him.[[note]][[HeartwarmingInHindsight On the other hand]], both Mike (who wrote the song's lyrics) and Tony were {{happily married}} to their respective wives at the time, and still are to this day.[[/note]]
6th Nov '15 6:00:41 PM PrincessTogezo
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* BrokenBase: Oh God, and how! Gabriel vs. Collins, Collins vs. Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

to:

* BrokenBase: Oh God, and how! To name just a few points of contention:
** The most infamous debate in the fandom is whether Peter
Gabriel vs. Collins, or Phil Collins vs. Wilson, etc. etc. etc.was the best frontman. Some fans think the band became terrible after Gabriel left, while others think that was the point where they started getting good. Meanwhile, there are the all-era fans who love both singers and think the other fans need to calm down. And don't even mention Ray Wilson unless you want to open a whole new can of worms; some fans think the band is right to ignore his contributions to the band, while others love ''Calling All Stations'' and think its omission from the band's 2014 documentary was an outrage.
** When it comes to the fans who think the band lost their way in the '80s, did that happen after ''The Lamb'' (when Gabriel left), or did it happen after ''Wind and Wuthering'' (when Steve Hackett left)? Some even think the trio era had one or two good albums before moving straight into pop.



* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + the Mechanics.

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* EnsembleDarkHorse: Phil Collins came out from behind his drum kit to take over as lead singer of the band, and then went on to have an astronomical solo career. Mike Rutherford has also found solo success with his band Mike + the Mechanics.Mechanics, and Steve Hackett remains a well-respected figure in the progressive rock community to this day (it helps that, in concerts, he often performs old Genesis songs in addition to his original songs).



* ScapegoatCreator: Again, as mentioned under FaceOfTheBand and {{Misblamed}}, the fans who reject the band's pop-oriented material tend to place the blame for it squarely on Phil Collins. Even though both Tony Banks and especially Mike Rutherford wanted to write pop songs as well, and the trio eventually developed a democratic songwriting system where, if two band members didn't like a song idea that the third proposed, they would vote it down (so if Banks and Rutherford were against changing the band's sound as much as members of Collins' hatedom say they were, the albums from ''Genesis'' onward would have been a return to the progressive rock sound instead of the pop albums they are).

to:

* ScapegoatCreator: Again, as mentioned under FaceOfTheBand and {{Misblamed}}, the fans who reject the band's pop-oriented material tend to place the blame for it squarely on Phil Collins. Even though both Tony Banks and especially Mike Rutherford wanted to write pop songs as well, and the trio eventually developed a democratic songwriting system where, if two band members didn't like a song idea that the third proposed, they would vote it down (so if Banks and Rutherford were against changing the band's sound as much as members of Collins' hatedom say they were, then theoretically, the albums from ''Genesis'' onward would should have been more of a return to the progressive rock sound instead of the pop albums they are).



* TastesLikeDiabetes: A lot of the more popular songs put out during the Collins-led era, ''especially'' love songs. Special mention goes to "Follow You Follow Me" and ''We Can't Dance'''s "Hold On My Heart".

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* TastesLikeDiabetes: A lot of the more popular songs put out during the Collins-led era, ''especially'' love songs. Special mention goes to "Follow You Follow Me" and ''We Can't Dance'''s "Hold On My Heart".Heart" (although for many fans, those two songs fall under this category in [[SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments the best]] [[SugarWiki/SweetDreamsFuel possible way]]).
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Genesis