History YMMV / GameOfThrones

14th Jun '18 4:50:07 AM Tuomas
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** The Season 7 finale retroactively turned [[spoiler:all of Robert's Rebellion into one. Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped to get married, because they were apparently in love with each other, despite Lyanna being betrothed to [[BoisterousBruiser Robert Baratheon]] and Rhaegar being married to [[IllGirl Elia Martell]], with whom he has two children. When Lyanna disappears, her brother Brandon and her betrothed Robert are obviously furious, thinking that she has been kidnapped by Rhaegar. So when Brandon bursts into the throne room demanding to see Rhaegar, he is arrested by [[TheCaligula Aerys]] and the rest, as they say, is history. House Targaryen would still be in power and thousands would still be alive today if Rhaegar or Lyanna had bothered to tell their families. Or, they could have just ''not'' eloped. That would have worked, too.]]
11th Jun '18 9:23:13 AM OccasionalExister
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** "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS6E9BattleOfTheBastards Battle of the Bastards]]" is this for a ''lot'' of fans, seeing as [[spoiler: [[BastardBastard Ramsay Bolton]] ''finally'' gets [[KarmaHoudiniWarranty his comeuppance]] in ''deservedly'' '''[[KarmicDeath gruesome]]''' fashion.]]

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** "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS6E9BattleOfTheBastards Battle of the Bastards]]" is this for a ''lot'' of fans, seeing as [[spoiler: [[BastardBastard Ramsay Bolton]] ''finally'' gets [[KarmaHoudiniWarranty his comeuppance]] in ''deservedly'' '''[[KarmicDeath gruesome]]''' fashion. His army is defeated, Jon Snow beats the ever-loving shit out of him, then he's handed over to one of his past victim, Sansa, who not only [[ShutUpHannibal shuts down his final attempts at mind games]], but then unleashes his own starving dogs on him. To see a character who's been nothing but a smug, sadistic bastard for four seasons straight go from utterly confident, to absolutely terrified, to screaming in agony as his dogs eat him alive, complete with tearing his face off... Let's just say there are few {{Cruel And Unusual Death}}s more satisfying or well-deserved.]]
27th May '18 7:06:02 AM Ciara25
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** The whole Dorne storyline in Season 5. After Oberyn Martell became a major fan favourite in Season 4 and [[spoiler: suffered a gut-wrenching, tragic death]], there was much anticipation for a visit to his homeland in Season 5. However, most viewers just considered it one of the season's biggest disappointments, thanks to way too much anti-climactic action, massive IdiotBall moments (Did Jaime and Bronn think they could just sneak into Dorne willy-nilly? Why is Doran so nonchalant about Ellaria coming into close contact to Myrcella, when she's made direct threats to torture or even kill her?), the cheesy and underspent Sand Snakes and a CruelTwistEnding [[ShaggyDogStory that made the whole drawn-out affair seem utterly pointless]]. It's not helped by how flimsy Ellaria's motivation for revenge is. [[spoiler: Oberyn's death was terrible, but ENTIRELY his own fault. He ''volunteered'' to take part in a legal fight to the death against one of the most powerful warriors in Westeros, [[SuicidalOverconfidence let himself get cocky when he thought he had it won, and paid the price for it.]] It's a valid reason to be upset for sure, but extremely petty to base going on a murderous vendetta over.]]

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** The whole Dorne storyline in Season 5. After Oberyn Martell became a major fan favourite in Season 4 and [[spoiler: suffered a gut-wrenching, tragic death]], there was much anticipation for a visit to his homeland in Season 5. However, most viewers just considered it one of the season's biggest disappointments, thanks to way too much anti-climactic action, massive IdiotBall moments (Did Jaime and Bronn think they could just sneak into Dorne willy-nilly? Why is Doran so nonchalant about Ellaria coming into close contact to Myrcella, when she's made direct threats to torture or even kill her?), the cheesy and underspent Sand Snakes and a CruelTwistEnding [[ShaggyDogStory that made the whole drawn-out affair seem utterly pointless]]. It's not helped by how flimsy Ellaria's motivation for revenge is. [[spoiler: Oberyn's death was indeed terrible, but ENTIRELY it was also ''entirely'' his own fault. He It wasn't as if he was betrayed and stabbed in the back like Robb and Catelyn at the Red Wedding; he ''volunteered'' to take part in a legal fight to the death against one of the most powerful warriors in Westeros, [[SuicidalOverconfidence let himself get cocky when he thought he had it won, and paid the price for it.]] It's a valid reason to be upset for sure, but extremely petty to base going on a murderous vendetta over.]]
22nd May '18 1:12:09 AM cherrychels
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** The number of people in-universe who like Tyrion can be counted on one hand. The number of people in real life who ''don't'' like Tyrion can also be counted on one hand.

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** The number of people in-universe InUniverse who like Tyrion can be counted on one hand. The number of people in real life who ''don't'' like Tyrion can also be counted on one hand.



** Stannis Baratheon is deeply unpopular within Westeros and is openly disliked by the show runners who have given him AdaptationalVillainy while his enemies get AdaptationalHeroism. However Stephen Dillane's performance and the sudden and poorly developed denouement of his arc in Season 5, which drastically diverged from the books[[note]]leading show runners to outright divulge spoilers related to them by WordOfGod in private to explain Shireen's sacrifice[[/note]] has led many fans to call FanonDiscontinuity, especially since Season 6 gives Book!Stannis' plotline to CreatorsPet characters. This ensures that Stannis has a vocal fanbase drawn to his comically serious personality and his no-nonsense HatesSmallTalk attitude, and they also note that its fitting that Stannis is wrongfully usurped of his rightful plotline in adaptation.
** Samwell Tarly is the runt of the Black Watch, being fat, cowardly, and soft -- him killing a White Walker, which would be an honor to other Brothers, is made into a joke at his expense. However, Sam is such an absolute ''sweetheart'' that it's nigh-impossible to find someone who does ''not'' like him.

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** Stannis Baratheon is deeply unpopular InUniverse within Westeros but the character has a vocal fanbase drawn to his comically serious personality, no-nonsense HatesSmallTalk attitude, and is openly disliked by unintentional humor from the show runners who books. The showrunners have given him the character AdaptationalVillainy in the TV series while his enemies get AdaptationalHeroism. However the character's book counterpart is a complicated and dutifully-minded man who believes firmly in law and justice. However, Stephen Dillane's performance and the sudden and poorly developed denouement of his arc in Season 5, which drastically diverged diverges from the books[[note]]leading show runners to outright divulge spoilers related to them by WordOfGod in private to explain Shireen's sacrifice[[/note]] books, has led many of his fans to call FanonDiscontinuity, especially since Season 6 gives Book!Stannis' plotline to CreatorsPet characters. This ensures FanonDiscontinuity. Among these differences in the character's book-to-show arc is that in the fifth book, Stannis has a vocal fanbase drawn to does not burn his comically serious personality and his no-nonsense HatesSmallTalk attitude, and they also note that its fitting that daughter, Shireen -- as of the end of ''A Dance With Dragons'', Shireen is alive with her mother Selyse at Castle Black while Stannis gathers an army to march on Bolton-occupied Winterfell. Additionally, despite Ramsay's claim in the Pink Letter, George R. R. Martin [[spoiler:confirms [[https://grrm.livejournal.com/438596.html?thread=22329668#t22329668 Stannis is wrongfully usurped still alive in the books]]]]. Many of his rightful plotline Stannis's fans have expressed great disappointment with the way Stannis's character and story arc have been adapted in adaptation.the TV series, explaining how badly both have been mishandled.
** Samwell Tarly is the runt of the Black Night's Watch, being fat, cowardly, and soft -- him soft. Sam killing a White Walker, which would be an honor to the other Brothers, Watchmen, is made into a joke at his expense. However, Sam is such an absolute ''sweetheart'' that it's nigh-impossible to find someone who does ''not'' like him.



** Some viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow. [[labelnote:From the books]]Some book readers feel this way about the character's book counterpart as Jon is one of the characters most befitting a classic hero on a hero's journey and is among the most fundamentally moral characters in the books. At the same time, some book readers feel the show's portrayal softens some of the character's more original traits and flaws by dialing down his intelligence, reserved nature, inability to stay politically or emotionally neutral per the Watch's requirements, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence.[[/labelnote]] Compared to many other characters in this series, Jon is more of a classic fantasy hero played straight with far less moral ambiguity in a CrapsackWorld and faces fewer instances of morally compromising choices and decisions.

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** Some viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow. [[labelnote:From the books]]Some books]]While some book readers feel this way about the character's book counterpart too as Jon is one of the characters most befitting a classic hero on a hero's journey and is among the most fundamentally moral characters in the books. At the same time, books, some book readers also feel the show's portrayal softens some of the character's more original traits and and/or flaws by dialing down his intelligence, outwardly reserved nature, greater political awareness and strategic competence, some harsher decisions to save lives, and inability to stay politically or emotionally neutral per the Watch's requirements, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence.requirements.[[/labelnote]] Compared to many other characters in this series, Jon is more of a classic fantasy hero played straight with far less moral ambiguity in a CrapsackWorld and faces fewer instances of morally compromising choices and decisions.
20th May '18 5:15:07 AM cherrychels
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** Even after the controversial episode 9 of Season 5, Stannis Baratheon still has fans who root for him, though now it's driven by fans calling DeathOfTheAuthor on the show runners for giving him AdaptationalVillainy more than anything else. This is only increased in Season 6 and Season 7, by Brienne pettily gloating about killing Stannis as if she won a great duel rather than kill a man when he was already wounded and beaten, and that by the time of Season 7, Stannis is more or less VindicatedByHistory since he came to the aid of the Night's Watch and accepted the Long Night where [[spoiler:Dany and Tyrion continue to subscribe to ArbitrarySkepticism, Varys who claimed that Stannis would have made a bad king turned out to have a MissingStepsPlan all along, Jon Snow becomes an IdiotHero whose leadership is subject to InformedAttribute, and Stannis encouraging Sam's scholarly pursuits helped him to go to the Citadel where he laments that he should have listened to Stannis when he mentioned having dragonglass on his island fortress. Tormund admits that Mance Rayder was a fool who should have bent the knee to Stannis, and likewise Daenerys claims that one has to see the Night King and White Walker threat to believe it, except Stannis believed it without seeing it]].

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** Even after the controversial episode 9 of Season 5, Stannis Baratheon still has fans who root for him, though now it's driven by fans calling DeathOfTheAuthor on the show runners showrunners for giving him Stannis AdaptationalVillainy more than anything else. This is only increased Additionally, in Season 6 and Season 7, by Brienne pettily gloating about killing Stannis as if she won a great duel rather than kill a man later seasons when it is increasingly more accepted that the Long Night has arrived and the ZombieApocalypse ''is'' coming, Stannis's value as a leader is shown as he was already wounded and beaten, and that by the time of Season 7, Stannis is more or less VindicatedByHistory since he only southron leader who came to the aid of the Night's Watch Watch, is one of the few leaders who believed the White Walkers were returning, and accepted was also one of the Long Night where [[spoiler:Dany and Tyrion continue to subscribe to ArbitrarySkepticism, Varys few leaders who claimed that Stannis would have made a bad king turned out to have a MissingStepsPlan all along, Jon Snow becomes an IdiotHero whose leadership is subject to InformedAttribute, and favoured letting the wildlings come south of the Wall. [[spoiler:In Season 7, Stannis encouraging Sam's scholarly pursuits helped him to Sam go to the Citadel where he laments that he should have listened to Stannis when he mentioned having dragonglass on his island fortress. Tormund admits that Mance Rayder was a fool who should have bent the knee to Stannis, and likewise Daenerys claims that one has to see the Night King and White Walker threat to believe it, except Stannis believed it without seeing it]].for the sake of his people]].
20th May '18 3:27:50 AM cherrychels
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** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she had many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but a naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she becomes more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time, more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she starts to garner more appreciation from the audience. Upon becoming a victim of torment and DomesticAbuse during her time in King's Landing, Sansa begins to receive viewer sympathy for her plight. Later, being tormented and abused by Ramsay Bolton; escaping to exact revenge on those who hurt her family; and receiving a non-emotional reaction from Bran, who is 'no longer' himself having become the three-eyed raven, and a NoSympathy reaction from Arya, who became very cynical in her six years away and is incredibly suspicious of Sansa for much of Season 7 (although Arya and Bran have gone through a lot themselves) garnered Sansa's character more sympathy from some viewers. In her storyline with Arya, who is usually a fan favorite, even some viewers who are not big fans of Sansa's character found themselves siding with Sansa against Arya.

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** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she had many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but a naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she becomes more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time, more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she starts to garner more appreciation from the audience. Upon becoming a victim of torment and DomesticAbuse during her time in King's Landing, Sansa begins to receive viewer sympathy for her plight. Later, being tormented and abused by Ramsay Bolton; escaping to exact reunite with Jon; doing whatever she can to take back their home; her revenge on those who hurt her family; Ramsay; and receiving a non-emotional reaction from Bran, who Bran (who is 'no longer' himself having become the three-eyed raven, raven), and a NoSympathy reaction from Arya, who Arya (who became very cynical in her six years away and is incredibly suspicious of Sansa for much of Season 7 (although Arya and Bran have gone through a lot themselves) 7) garnered Sansa's character more sympathy from some viewers.viewers (while recognizing Arya and Bran have gone through a lot themselves). In her storyline with Arya, who is usually a fan favorite, even some viewers who are not big fans of Sansa's character found themselves siding with Sansa against Arya.
20th May '18 3:18:25 AM cherrychels
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** Aerys II Targaryen, TheDreaded Mad King himself. He's only appeared for a few ''seconds'', but he left one hell of an impression thanks to his bone chilling line: '''"BURN THEM ALL"'''

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** Aerys II Targaryen, TheDreaded Mad King himself. He's only appeared for a few ''seconds'', but he left one hell of an impression thanks to his bone chilling bone-chilling line: '''"BURN THEM ALL"'''



** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she had many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but a naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she becomes more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time, more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she starts to garner more appreciation from the audience. Becoming a victim of DomesticAbuse in order to get revenge on those who hurt her family and receiving a non-emotional reaction from Bran, who is 'no longer' himself having become the three-eyed raven, and a NoSympathy reaction from Arya, who became very cynical in her six years away and is incredibly suspicious of Sansa for much of Season 7 (although Arya and Bran have gone through a lot themselves) garnered Sansa's character more sympathy. In her storyline with Arya, who is usually a fan favorite, some viewers who are not big fans of Sansa's character found themselves siding with Sansa against Arya.

to:

** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she had many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but a naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she becomes more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time, more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she starts to garner more appreciation from the audience. Becoming Upon becoming a victim of torment and DomesticAbuse during her time in order King's Landing, Sansa begins to get receive viewer sympathy for her plight. Later, being tormented and abused by Ramsay Bolton; escaping to exact revenge on those who hurt her family family; and receiving a non-emotional reaction from Bran, who is 'no longer' himself having become the three-eyed raven, and a NoSympathy reaction from Arya, who became very cynical in her six years away and is incredibly suspicious of Sansa for much of Season 7 (although Arya and Bran have gone through a lot themselves) garnered Sansa's character more sympathy. sympathy from some viewers. In her storyline with Arya, who is usually a fan favorite, even some viewers who are not big fans of Sansa's character found themselves siding with Sansa against Arya.



** Some viewers disliked Shae in the beginning and considered her a SatelliteLoveInterest to Tyrion. After witnessing her new-found badassery in Season 2 and taking on a protective role over Sansa, the critics disappeared. Sadly, she begins to slide back into it with Season 4 by becoming a ClingyJealousGirl once Tyrion is forced to marry Sansa and [[spoiler:betraying both of them later on before dying at Tyrion's hand because she tries to kill him]].

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** Some viewers disliked Shae in the beginning and considered her a SatelliteLoveInterest to Tyrion. After witnessing her new-found badassery in Season 2 and taking on a protective role over for Sansa, the many critics disappeared. Sadly, she begins to slide back into it with Season 4 by becoming a ClingyJealousGirl once Tyrion is forced to marry Sansa and [[spoiler:betraying both of them later on before dying at Tyrion's hand because she tries to kill him]].
20th May '18 2:07:46 AM cherrychels
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** In "The Rains of Castamere", [[spoiler:a pregnant Talisa is stabbed in her stomach... again, and again, and again. Even her many haters found the scene to be absolutely traumatizing.]]

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** In "The Rains of Castamere", [[spoiler:a pregnant Talisa is stabbed in her stomach... again, and again, and again. Even her many haters found the scene to be absolutely traumatizing.horrific.]]



** Ramsay Bolton has his fangirls too, some of whom think he's redeemable whilst others actually seem to want him to torture them, which presumably counts as either TooKinkyToTorture or ComicallyMissingThePoint, especially considering he's a sadistic rapist. It's mostly as a result of him recieving AdaptationalAttractiveness via casting and being an AdaptationalBadass.

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** Ramsay Bolton has his fangirls too, some of whom think he's redeemable whilst others actually seem to want him to torture them, which presumably counts as either TooKinkyToTorture or ComicallyMissingThePoint, especially considering he's a sadistic rapist. It's mostly as a result of him recieving receiving AdaptationalAttractiveness via casting and being an AdaptationalBadass.



** "[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRO0jQFnLjE The Rains of Castamere]]", as performed by the rockband The National for Season 2.

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** "[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRO0jQFnLjE The Rains of Castamere]]", as performed by the rockband rock band The National for Season 2.



** While Sansa isn't really evil yet, she makes an EvilCostumeSwitch in an attempt to take charge of her life and embraces this trope to its fullest.

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** While Sansa isn't really evil yet, evil, she makes an EvilCostumeSwitch in an attempt to take charge of her life and embraces this trope to its fullest.



** Sansa/Jon is increasing popular for a crackship, since their very affectionate reunion in Season 6. [[spoiler: And made fortunately much less squicky with the reveal that they're actually cousins.]]

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** Sansa/Jon is increasing popular for a crackship, since their very affectionate reunion in Season 6. [[spoiler: And For some, it is made fortunately much less biologically squicky with the reveal that they're actually cousins.cousins by blood as opposed to half-siblings.]]



** There's also some overlap between ''Game of Thrones'' fans and players of ''VideoGame/CrusaderKingsII'', since the latter is essentially a medieval politics simulator. There's a ''Game of Thrones''-themed Game Mod which is reasonably popular, which has in turn inspired a number of AfterActionReport fan fictions. Now that there is also a mod for ''Crusader Kings II'' that allows you to play as one of the rulers in Tamriel, it seems the cycle is now complete.

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** There's also some overlap between ''Game of Thrones'' fans and players of ''VideoGame/CrusaderKingsII'', since the latter is essentially a medieval politics simulator. There's a ''Game of Thrones''-themed Game Mod which is reasonably popular, which has in turn inspired a number of AfterActionReport fan fictions.fanfictions. Now that there is also a mod for ''Crusader Kings II'' that allows you to play as one of the rulers in Tamriel, it seems the cycle is now complete.



** Lady Olenna Tyrell [[spoiler:becomes the last Tyrell after losing Mace, Loras and Margaery in Cersei's wildfire plot]] but the Queen of Thorns doesn't loss her resolve and stays in the game [[spoiler:allied with Daenarys Targaryen]].

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** Lady Olenna Tyrell [[spoiler:becomes the last Tyrell after losing Mace, Loras and Margaery in Cersei's wildfire plot]] but the Queen of Thorns doesn't loss her resolve and stays in the game [[spoiler:allied with Daenarys Daenerys Targaryen]].



** Arya yelling "Oysters, clams and cockles!" over and over.

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** Arya yelling yelling, "Oysters, clams and cockles!" over and over.



** Yara's vow to free Theon from Ramsay Bolton in Season 3, one of the major cliffhangers of the previous season. It's resolved in a single scene in Season 4, where Yara and her band are easily driven off by Ramsay. And that's the end of that plot line.

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** Yara's vow to free Theon from Ramsay Bolton in Season 3, one of the major cliffhangers of the previous season. It's resolved in a single scene in Season 4, where Yara and her band are easily driven off by Ramsay. And that's the end of that plot line.plotline.



** Season 6 reintroduced the Brotherhood Without Banners, the Freys and the Tullys after a long PutOnABus (absent for both Season 4 and Season 5) as well as the Greyjoys. However, on account of being brought back outside their original time in the plot, with the showrunners focusing on the reviled Dorne arc instead, the storylines was subject to much AdaptationDistillation and hastily shortened, with the removal of Lady Stoneheart more or less removing the keystone of the entire section and many felt that if they had AdaptedOut Dorne instead and focused on the Riverlands, the show could have been better balanced even with the other changes in the plotline. Pilou Asbaek's Euron Greyjoy despite limited screetime in Season 6 was well-received and many felt that if they had brought him earlier, he could have become the horn-wielding sorceror of the books.

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** Season 6 reintroduced the Brotherhood Without Banners, the Freys and the Tullys after a long PutOnABus (absent for both Season 4 and Season 5) as well as the Greyjoys. However, on account of being brought back outside their original time in the plot, with the showrunners focusing on the reviled Dorne arc instead, the storylines was subject to much AdaptationDistillation and hastily shortened, with the removal of Lady Stoneheart more or less removing the keystone of the entire section and many felt that if they had AdaptedOut Dorne instead and focused on the Riverlands, the show could have been better balanced even with the other changes in the plotline. Pilou Asbaek's Euron Greyjoy despite limited screetime screentime in Season 6 was well-received and many felt that if they had brought him earlier, he could have become the horn-wielding sorceror sorcerer of the books.



** The show has been accused of [[http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499 sexualizing violence]] or relying too heavily on GratuitousRape for cheap shock value by online critics. In particular, Jaime and Cersei's sex scene in "Breaker Of Chains" was changed from the source material to appear to many viewers to be rape. The fact that the director has stated that it is a consensual sex scene in spite of Cersei's protests has added [[http://www.genevievevalentine.com/2014/04/its-complicated/ fuel to the fire]]. [[http://www.vox.com/2015/5/18/8622119/game-of-thrones-sansa-rape As has]] the scene in Season 5 where Ramsay [[spoiler:rapes Sansa after their wedding]].

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** The show has been accused of [[http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499 sexualizing violence]] or relying too heavily on GratuitousRape for cheap shock value by online critics. In particular, Jaime and Cersei's sex scene in "Breaker Of Chains" was changed from the source material to appear as rape to many viewers to be rape.viewers. The fact that the director has stated that it is a consensual sex scene in spite of Cersei's protests has added [[http://www.genevievevalentine.com/2014/04/its-complicated/ fuel to the fire]]. [[http://www.vox.com/2015/5/18/8622119/game-of-thrones-sansa-rape As has]] the scene in Season 5 where Ramsay [[spoiler:rapes Sansa after their wedding]].



** Same goes for Lyanna Stark. [[spoiler:Her romance with Rhaegar is meant to be true love, but with how Elia is just brushed aside it constrives to paint Lyanna as a homewrecker and further shows them both as incredibly irresponsible for insulting both House Baratheon and House Martell simultaneously by breaking off their engagements/marriages to people from those Houses and setting off a civil war. This is all the more perplexing since her nephew Robb's impromptu marriage to Talisa is treated as a political blunder that was Robb's undoing. Combining this with Rhaegar's example above, it makes Robert's Rebellion look like the direct result of two stupid young people eloping without bothering to mention this (rather important) fact before it's too late. Or even after it's too late, for that matter.]]

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** Same goes for Lyanna Stark. [[spoiler:Her romance with Rhaegar is meant to be true love, but with how Elia is just brushed aside it constrives to aside, this can paint Lyanna as a homewrecker and further shows them both as incredibly irresponsible for insulting both House Baratheon and House Martell simultaneously by breaking off their engagements/marriages to people from those Houses and setting off a civil war. This is all the more perplexing since her nephew Robb's impromptu marriage to Talisa is treated as a political blunder that was Robb's undoing. Combining this with Rhaegar's example above, it makes Robert's Rebellion look like the direct result of two stupid young people eloping without bothering to mention this (rather important) fact before it's too late. Or even after it's too late, for that matter.]]



** Samwell Tarly is the runt of the Black Watch, being fat, cowardly, and soft--him killing a White Walker, which would be an honor to other Brothers, is made into a joke at his expense. However, Sam is such an absolute ''sweetheart'' that it's nigh-impossible to find someone who does ''not'' like him.

to:

** Samwell Tarly is the runt of the Black Watch, being fat, cowardly, and soft--him soft -- him killing a White Walker, which would be an honor to other Brothers, is made into a joke at his expense. However, Sam is such an absolute ''sweetheart'' that it's nigh-impossible to find someone who does ''not'' like him.



** Some viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow. [[labelnote:From the Books]]Likewise, some book readers feel this way about the character's book counterpart as Jon remains among one of the characters most befitting a classic hero on a hero's journey and is one of the most fundamentally moral characters in the books. At the same time, some book readers feel the show's portrayal softens some of the character's more original traits and flaws by dialing down his intelligence, reserved nature, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence.[[/labelnote]] Compared to many other characters in this series, Jon is more of a classic fantasy hero played straight with far less moral ambiguity in a CrapsackWorld and faces fewer instances of morally compromising choices and decisions.

to:

** Some viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow. [[labelnote:From the Books]]Likewise, some books]]Some book readers feel this way about the character's book counterpart as Jon remains among is one of the characters most befitting a classic hero on a hero's journey and is one of among the most fundamentally moral characters in the books. At the same time, some book readers feel the show's portrayal softens some of the character's more original traits and flaws by dialing down his intelligence, reserved nature, inability to stay politically or emotionally neutral per the Watch's requirements, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence.[[/labelnote]] Compared to many other characters in this series, Jon is more of a classic fantasy hero played straight with far less moral ambiguity in a CrapsackWorld and faces fewer instances of morally compromising choices and decisions.
20th May '18 1:37:23 AM cherrychels
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** Similarly, Stannis after a dramatic comeback in the Season 4 finale, takes a whole 10 episodes to get from the Wall to Winterfell in his reconquest for the throne. [[spoiler: Even worse, the CurbStompBattle ends up being the most anti climactic confrontation in Game of Thrones history. And then he dies as well.]]

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** Similarly, Stannis after a dramatic comeback in the Season 4 finale, takes a whole 10 episodes to get from the Wall to Winterfell in his reconquest for the throne. [[spoiler: Even worse, the CurbStompBattle ends up being the most anti climactic anti-climactic confrontation in Game of Thrones history. And then he dies as well.]]



** And then the opposite happens in Season 7; because of the decreased number of episodes, the story is extremely compressed. This leaves characters with the apparent ability to teleport -- for instance, Euron brings [[spoiler:a captured Yara, Ellaria and Tyene]] to King's Landing and then appears to have sailed around to the Western coast of Westeros [[spoiler:to besiege the Unsullied]] in Casterly Rock ''in the same episode.'' Additionally, encounters and plot points that readers and viewers alike have been waiting years for, such as Jon and Dany meeting, or the Starks returning to Winterfell, can feel rushed and underwhelming. Finally, it lends distinct StrangledByTheRedString problems to Jon and Daenerys's burgeoning relationship; they go from disliking and distrusting each other to sexual tension entirely too quickly.

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** And then the opposite happens in Season 7; because of the decreased number of episodes, the story is extremely compressed. This leaves characters with the apparent ability to teleport -- for instance, Euron brings [[spoiler:a captured Yara, Ellaria and Tyene]] to King's Landing and then appears to have sailed around to the Western coast of Westeros [[spoiler:to besiege the Unsullied]] in Casterly Rock ''in the same episode.'' Additionally, encounters and plot points in Season 7 that readers and viewers alike have been waiting years for, such as Jon and Dany meeting, or the Starks Arya and Bran returning to Winterfell, and/or long-awaited reunions can feel anti-climatic and rushed and underwhelming. for some. Finally, it lends distinct StrangledByTheRedString problems for some viewers when it comes to Jon and Daenerys's burgeoning relationship; they go from disliking and distrusting each other to sexual tension entirely too quickly.



** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she is captive and has many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she was finally able to become more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she started getting more appreciation as a sympathetic character. Becoming a victim of DomesticAbuse in order to get revenge on those who hurt her family and getting NoSympathy and an UngratefulBastard reaction from Bran and Arya (although both had gone through a lot) resulted in even more viewer sympathy, at the expense of ''Arya'', usually a fan favorite. Judging from You Tube comments, even people who had disliked her until Season 7 ended up siding with her, to their amazement.

to:

** Sansa was unpopular in early seasons because she is captive and has had many intentionally unsympathetic character traits (quite simply: she's a well-meaning but a naive and pretty shallow teenager). When she was finally able to become becomes more compassionate and tolerant, and at the same time time, more proactive and manipulative in the King's Landing court, she started getting starts to garner more appreciation as a sympathetic character. from the audience. Becoming a victim of DomesticAbuse in order to get revenge on those who hurt her family and getting NoSympathy and an UngratefulBastard receiving a non-emotional reaction from Bran Bran, who is 'no longer' himself having become the three-eyed raven, and Arya a NoSympathy reaction from Arya, who became very cynical in her six years away and is incredibly suspicious of Sansa for much of Season 7 (although both had Arya and Bran have gone through a lot) resulted in even lot themselves) garnered Sansa's character more viewer sympathy, at the expense of ''Arya'', sympathy. In her storyline with Arya, who is usually a fan favorite. Judging from You Tube comments, even people favorite, some viewers who had disliked her until Season 7 ended up are not big fans of Sansa's character found themselves siding with her, to their amazement.Sansa against Arya.



** Meta example with Ian Whyte. He was considered to be a ReplacementScrappy as the second Mountain, but Wun Wun is considered to be one of the best things about the Wall story line.

to:

** Meta example with Ian Whyte. He was considered to be a ReplacementScrappy as the second Mountain, but Wun Wun is considered to be one of the best things about the Wall story line.storyline.



* SpiritualLicensee: Due to shared inspiration (specifically, the real life UsefulNotes/WarsOfTheRoses), fans have considered this the closest thing to a DarkerAndEdgier live action adaptation of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' they're ever likely to see.

to:

* SpiritualLicensee: Due to shared inspiration (specifically, the real life real-life UsefulNotes/WarsOfTheRoses), fans have considered this the closest thing to a DarkerAndEdgier live action live-action adaptation of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyTactics'' they're ever likely to see.
20th May '18 1:11:38 AM cherrychels
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* PanderingToTheBase: One of several widespread criticisms of Season 7, the worst-received season thus far, is that it used a bit too much of this, including [[spoiler:Gendry's and the Brothers Without Banners' overly convenient return, The Hound's humanization CharacterDevelopment, Daenerys and Jon Snow hooking up, Littlefinger finally getting killed, Theon gaining the (reluctant) respect of the other Ironborn, Jorah's infection being cured by a completely inexperienced Samwell, finding out Jon is the true heir to the throne]], and so on.

to:

* PanderingToTheBase: One of several widespread criticisms of For some, among the criticism for Season 7, the worst-received season thus far, 7 is that it used a bit too much of this, including [[spoiler:Gendry's and the Brothers Without Banners' overly convenient return, The Hound's humanization CharacterDevelopment, Daenerys and Jon Snow hooking up, Littlefinger finally getting killed, Theon gaining the (reluctant) respect of the other Ironborn, Jorah's infection being cured by a completely inexperienced Samwell, finding out Jon is the true heir to the throne]], and so on.



** A lot of viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow, with even Kristian Nairn (who played Hodor) while praising [[http://gameoflaughs.com/game-of-thrones-star-kristian-nairn-says-he-was-glad-jon-snow-got-stabbed/ Kit Harington's performance]], lamented that the character he played was boring[[labelnote:From the Books]]Book readers note that this is a result of the show softening and dialing down his character's more original traits and flaws, especially dialing down his intelligence and aloofness, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence[[/labelnote]]. Unlike the other Stark children (Bran, Arya, Sansa, Robb) or Tyrion, Jaime, Stannis and Daenerys, Jon Snow is more or less a standard fantasy hero played straight complete with GoodIsDumb and PlotArmour, and unlike other "good" characters in the show (such as Ned Stark) with very few instances of actual morally compromising choices and decisions to make. His actions and achievements are also subject to benefiting of other people's help (such as the Vale arriving in time to bail him out in the Battle of the Bastards, and Stannis coming in time to save him and crush Mance Rayder), with much InformedAttribute (such as becoming King in the North, despite a weak claim, poor military leadership and generally spotty record).
** Tyrion Lannister is also becoming this in Seasons 5-7, where characters like Varys praise him for being a brilliant political mind, and the AdaptationalHeroism he receives dials down some of the original and tragic aspects of his book counterpart, which has the side-effect of making him a more conventional character than originally envisioned. Where the Tyrion of Seasons 1-4 was driven by ambition, angst, resentment and a need to assert himself, Tyrion spends the later seasons being a sidekick and SatelliteCharacter to Dany's story and even trying to serve as a conscience and calming influence on Dany with very little sign of having his own goals and interests. Complicating this is that many of his plans and ideas fail, such as his olive branch to the slave-owning cabal in Essos, and his original invasion scheme [[spoiler:for Dany which falls apart in the first three episodes of Westeros, largely because of DiabolusExMachina to better serve Dany's more dynamic story]].

to:

** A lot of Some viewers feel this way about the show's version of Jon Snow, with even Kristian Nairn (who played Hodor) while praising [[http://gameoflaughs.com/game-of-thrones-star-kristian-nairn-says-he-was-glad-jon-snow-got-stabbed/ Kit Harington's performance]], lamented that Snow. [[labelnote:From the character he played was boring[[labelnote:From the Books]]Book Books]]Likewise, some book readers note that feel this is a result way about the character's book counterpart as Jon remains among one of the show softening characters most befitting a classic hero on a hero's journey and dialing down his is one of the most fundamentally moral characters in the books. At the same time, some book readers feel the show's portrayal softens some of the character's more original traits and flaws, especially flaws by dialing down his intelligence and aloofness, intelligence, reserved nature, and his greater political awareness and strategic competence[[/labelnote]]. Unlike the competence.[[/labelnote]] Compared to many other Stark children (Bran, Arya, Sansa, Robb) or Tyrion, Jaime, Stannis and Daenerys, characters in this series, Jon Snow is more or less of a standard classic fantasy hero played straight complete with GoodIsDumb far less moral ambiguity in a CrapsackWorld and PlotArmour, and unlike other "good" characters in the show (such as Ned Stark) with very few faces fewer instances of actual morally compromising choices and decisions to make. His actions and achievements are also subject to benefiting of other people's help (such as the Vale arriving in time to bail him out in the Battle of the Bastards, and Stannis coming in time to save him and crush Mance Rayder), with much InformedAttribute (such as becoming King in the North, despite a weak claim, poor military leadership and generally spotty record).
decisions.
** Some viewers feel Tyrion Lannister is also becoming fits this trope in Seasons 5-7, where characters like Varys praise him for being 5-7 as a brilliant political mind, and result of the character's AdaptationalHeroism he receives dials dialing down some of the original and tragic aspects of his book counterpart, which has the side-effect of making him a more conventional character than originally envisioned. and morally relatable character. Where the Tyrion of Seasons 1-4 was driven by ambition, angst, resentment and a need to assert himself, Tyrion spends the later seasons being with a sidekick and SatelliteCharacter to more relatable morality when he serves as a reminder of Dany's story and even trying to serve as a conscience and is a calming influence on Dany with very little sign of having his own goals and interests. Complicating this is that many of his plans and ideas fail, such as his olive branch to the slave-owning cabal in Essos, and his original invasion scheme [[spoiler:for Dany which falls apart in the first three episodes of Westeros, largely because of DiabolusExMachina to better serve Dany's her more dynamic story]].extreme tendencies.
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