History YMMV / FireEmblemJugdral

23rd Mar '16 12:55:18 PM WaxingName
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** Finn, for being a character who survived part 1, including being usable in both Genealogy and Thracia 776, and being a solid character for both of them.

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** Finn, for being a character who survived part 1, including being usable in both Genealogy and Thracia 776, and being a solid character for both of them. [[http://imgur.com/a/f5COM In a series-wide poll conducted by Famitsu]], Finn came in the ''top ten'' alongside well-loved characters like Lyn and Hector.
23rd Mar '16 12:49:38 PM WaxingName
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Added DiffLines:

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Sigurd is a very popular Lord to western fans, as he is often considered a {{Badass}} exceeding that of other lords well-loved in the west such as [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Hector]] and [[VideoGame/FireEmblemTellius Ike]], and western fans tend to see his son Seliph as something of a minor ReplacementScrappy. Japanese fans on the other hand prefer Seliph to his father, due to his relatively kinder nature and that his own {{Badass}} cred is earned rather than being right there in the beginning.
11th Mar '16 4:10:31 PM Euvany
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* TheWoobie: Both games have plenty, but it pretty much sucks big time if you are a heroic character from House Freege.
** Tailto: Starts out as a super cheery, devil-may-care GenkiGirl that has the markings of a PluckyGirl. The pluckiness starts to shatter the instant her father brands her a traitor along with Sigurd and she felt that only her childhood friend Azel is the one she can turn to. It breaks again when confronting her father and eventually losing contact with her husband after the Battle of Belhalla. Then [[spoiler:she gets kidnapped with her infant daughter Teeny to Freege, losing contact with her son Arthur, and [[BreakTheCutie broken beyond belief]] due to the torture and abuse of [[EvilMatriarch Hilda]] just to protect little Teeny that [[KillTheCutie she degenerated into a depressed woman that dies losing her will to live]]. And possibly, she gets turned into the Deadlord Anguilla afterwards, seeing that Anguilla has both minor Tordo blood and the spellbook Tailto had in the beginning: Thoron. [[PlayerPunch Damn it.]]]]
** Teeny: See above. [[spoiler:The prospect of being kidnapped since infant age, seeing her mother die protecting her and spending the rest of her childhood taking further abuses by Hilda now that Tailto is gone (like being called 'traitor's daughter'), and Bloom still acting like a controlling uncle instead of protecting her... it's not doing any favors for Teeny's insecure self. It was a good thing that there were some kind souls like Ishtar and Ishtore to prevent her going off the rockers.]]
*** The same also applies for Linda, who takes Teeny's role if Talito died or had no children.
** Arthur: [[spoiler:Unlike any other children, Arthur pretty much had his life as a normal child robbed from him at the tender age of ''7'', including the kidnapping of his mother and sister. Other children may have their noble upbringing (Ced/Fee), being in an OrphanageOfLove (Seliph & co, Faval/Patty, Leen), be in good retainer/parent's hands (Leif, Nanna, Julia (yes, Arvis and Deirdre were very kind to her before things went to hell)), or be HappilyAdopted (Corple). Arthur only had a stranger old lady that picked him up and the rest, he had to fend for himself since young age, [[StoicWoobie shaping up his 'cold' self as mentioned]].]]

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* TheWoobie: Both games have plenty, but it given the CrapsackWorld that Jugdral becomes, with special mentions below.
** It
pretty much sucks big time if you are a heroic character from House Freege.
** *** Tailto: Starts out as a super cheery, devil-may-care GenkiGirl that has the markings of a PluckyGirl. The pluckiness starts to shatter the instant her father brands her a traitor along with Sigurd and she felt that only her childhood friend Azel is the one she can turn to. It breaks again when confronting her father and eventually losing contact with her husband after the Battle of Belhalla. Then [[spoiler:she gets kidnapped with her infant daughter Teeny to Freege, losing contact with her son Arthur, and [[BreakTheCutie broken beyond belief]] due to the torture and abuse of [[EvilMatriarch Hilda]] just to protect little Teeny that [[KillTheCutie she degenerated into a depressed woman that dies losing her will to live]]. And possibly, she gets turned into the Deadlord Anguilla afterwards, seeing that Anguilla has both minor Tordo blood and the spellbook Tailto had in the beginning: Thoron. [[PlayerPunch Damn it.]]]]
** *** Teeny: See above. [[spoiler:The prospect of being kidnapped since infant age, seeing her mother die protecting her and spending the rest of her childhood taking further abuses by Hilda now that Tailto is gone (like being called 'traitor's daughter'), and Bloom still acting like a controlling uncle instead of protecting her... it's not doing any favors for Teeny's insecure self. It was a good thing that there were some kind souls like Ishtar and Ishtore to prevent her going off the rockers.]]
***
]] The same also applies for Linda, who takes Teeny's role if Talito died or had no children.
** *** Arthur: [[spoiler:Unlike any other children, Arthur pretty much had his life as a normal child robbed from him at the tender age of ''7'', including the kidnapping of his mother and sister. Other children may have their noble upbringing (Ced/Fee), being in an OrphanageOfLove (Seliph & co, Faval/Patty, Leen), be in good retainer/parent's hands (Leif, Nanna, Julia (yes, Arvis and Deirdre were very kind to her before things went to hell)), or be HappilyAdopted (Corple). Arthur only had a stranger old lady that picked him up and the rest, he had to fend for himself since young age, [[StoicWoobie shaping up his 'cold' self as mentioned]].]]]]
** Altena: [[spoiler:Kidnapped as an infant by Travant, the man who murdered her parents, and raised to believe that she's his daughter]], with the Nea Fuyuki manga suggesting that she had a very unhappy (if not outright abusive) childhood with Areone as her only support. Either way, by the present she's a BrokenBird, and the bomb that Leif drops on her doesn't help, seeing as how it shakes up everything she's known and pits her against Areone, her ImpliedLoveInterest.



** For ''Tracia 776'', the Fiana Militia are refered to as the [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal Fiana Freeblades]] in ''Awakening'', which many think sounds much cooler. Othin [[SpellMyNameWithAnS being spelled as]] "Orsin", meaning "bear", [[MeaningfulName is also an improvement.]]

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** For ''Tracia ''Thracia 776'', the Fiana Militia are refered to as the [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal Fiana Freeblades]] in ''Awakening'', which many think sounds much cooler. Othin [[SpellMyNameWithAnS being spelled as]] "Orsin", meaning "bear", [[MeaningfulName is also an improvement.]]
11th Mar '16 3:59:15 PM Euvany
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Arvis' final actions in the game. Did he arrange for Seliph to receive the Tyrfing just because he wanted Seliph to save the children from the Loptyr hunts? Or did he also intend to set up a SuicideByCop situation where he would be killed by Seliph? He had to have known he would eventually fight Seliph since he had been assigned to defend Chalphy castle by Julius; and considering he was very remorseful for being Manfroy's unwitting pawn, he may have become an outright DeathSeeker by this point. He also pointlessly taunts Seliph by calling Sigurd, Seliph's father whom Arvis personally murdered, "pathetic" right before the battle; an action that feels out of character for him at this point in the story. Arvis most surely knows that Seliph wants avenge his father's death, so was this actually Arvis trying to provoke Seliph into attacking and killing him?
* AnticlimaxBoss: Julius, the final boss of ''Genealogy'', if you use the plot-dictated method involving Julia and Naga. If you want to do anything else, the final boss becomes a SNKBoss. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aLEoF6-kGw&feature=plcp&context=C387d729UDOEgsToPDskLXdA6wtX-ULNCb-lJmWuya It is still entirely possible to kill him without Naga,]] but it requires a lot of patience, as you can only do a tiny bit of damage every turn (20 to be exact, assuming Seliph's attacks hit), and he regenerates 15 HP every turn. (He's immune to skills and criticals thanks to his Awareness.) And hope that he doesn't decide to cast Meteor on whoever you have healing Seliph- he's known for charging (Charge or Duel, a skill that causes combat to act as though another "attack" command was issued, and it can proc on itself, causing combat to last until death in some cases...) those in his meteor range to death (he also has Wrath so if he's at 35 HP and decides he's gonna meteor someone, say a quick prayer for that character, cause he/she is dead).

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
**
Arvis' final actions in the game. Did he arrange for Seliph to receive the Tyrfing just because he wanted Seliph to save the children from the Loptyr hunts? Or did he also intend to set up a SuicideByCop situation where he would be killed by Seliph? He had to have known he would eventually fight Seliph since he had been assigned to defend Chalphy castle by Julius; and considering he was very remorseful for being Manfroy's unwitting pawn, he may have become an outright DeathSeeker by this point. He also pointlessly taunts Seliph by calling Sigurd, Seliph's father whom Arvis personally murdered, "pathetic" right before the battle; an action that feels out of character for him at this point in the story. Arvis most surely knows that Seliph wants avenge his father's death, so was this actually Arvis trying to provoke Seliph into attacking and killing him?
** Lewyn, particularly regarding his [[TookALevelInJerkass attitude change]] in Gen 2. It's revealed at the end of ''Genealogy'' that [[spoiler:he's been possessed by Forseti for at least the last half of the game, but it's up in the air as to when exactly the possession started (after his death and subsequent revival? As soon as he inherited the tome?) and how it contributes to his behaviour: if he has a Forseti-shaped hole in his personality and whatnot, if he's more Forseti than Lewyn at that point, if he's putting up a JerkassFacade because he knows that being BackFromTheDead (and [[ButNowIMustGo possibly only temporarily]]) means that he can't live a normal life, etc.]]
* AnticlimaxBoss: AnticlimaxBoss:
**
Julius, the final boss of ''Genealogy'', if you use the plot-dictated method involving Julia and Naga. If you want to do anything else, the final boss becomes a SNKBoss. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aLEoF6-kGw&feature=plcp&context=C387d729UDOEgsToPDskLXdA6wtX-ULNCb-lJmWuya It is still entirely possible to kill him without Naga,]] but it requires a lot of patience, as you can only do a tiny bit of damage every turn (20 to be exact, assuming Seliph's attacks hit), and he regenerates 15 HP every turn. (He's immune to skills and criticals thanks to his Awareness.) And hope that he doesn't decide to cast Meteor on whoever you have healing Seliph- he's known for charging (Charge or Duel, a skill that causes combat to act as though another "attack" command was issued, and it can proc on itself, causing combat to last until death in some cases...) those in his meteor range to death (he also has Wrath so if he's at 35 HP and decides he's gonna meteor someone, say a quick prayer for that character, cause he/she is dead).



* {{Asspull}}: King Travant of Thracia [[spoiler:murders Quan and Ethlyn in cold blood and kidnaps an infant Altenna]]. While it's made known that he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who desperately wants to improve Thracia's welfare (which is down the tubes, as the game lets you know), his acts are heinous. Come ''Thracia 776'', we find out, very cheaply, that [[spoiler:the Loptyr Sect manipulated him into killing Quan and Ethlyn]].

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* {{Asspull}}: {{Asspull}}:
**
King Travant of Thracia [[spoiler:murders Quan and Ethlyn in cold blood and kidnaps an infant Altenna]]. While it's made known that he is a WellIntentionedExtremist who desperately wants to improve Thracia's welfare (which is down the tubes, as the game lets you know), his acts are heinous. Come ''Thracia 776'', we find out, very cheaply, that [[spoiler:the Loptyr Sect manipulated him into killing Quan and Ethlyn]].



* GameBreaker: If you play your cards right with the pairings in the first generation of ''Genealogy'', you can end up with a whole army of GameBreakers. [[JustifiedTrope Justified,]] since most people wouldn't have a clue on their first time through that pairing people up was actually extremely important, never mind which pairings were good or bad, and the game doesn't take it easy on you, so the few couples that the game does push on you (i.e. Lewyn/Ferry) result in characters that have to take up the slack for the generic replacements.

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* GameBreaker: If you play your cards right with the pairings in the first generation of ''Genealogy'', you can end up with a whole army of GameBreakers.[[GameBreaker Game Breakers]]. [[JustifiedTrope Justified,]] since most people wouldn't have a clue on their first time through that pairing people up was actually extremely important, never mind which pairings were good or bad, and the game doesn't take it easy on you, so the few couples that the game does push on you (i.e. Lewyn/Ferry) result in characters that have to take up the slack for the generic replacements.



** In ''Thracia776'', the various warp and rewarp staves come as close as you can get, allowing a player to abuse InstantWinCondition to get around some of the more difficult chapters.

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** In ''Thracia776'', ''Thracia 776'', the various warp and rewarp staves come as close as you can get, allowing a player to abuse InstantWinCondition to get around some of the more difficult chapters.



* JerkassWoobie: [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Depending on your interpretation]], Lewyn in Gen 2. While generally the harshest among Seliph's army and not a particularly pleasant person (he's not going to win any parenting awards if Ced and Fee are his kids, for sure), his life is fairly depressing after the Battle of Belhalla: [[spoiler:he actually ''did'' die in that battle, his mother is soon killed, his wife is likely dead by the present depending on who she is (canonically, Ferry)]], he had to abandon his family and his beloved country (with ''Thracia 776'' mentioning that the people of Silesse now hate him for that) and his uncaring attitude could very well just be a JerkassFacade in an attempt to cut off his ties with the world. At the end of the game, it's entirely possible [[spoiler:he goes back to being dead,]] and even if not, WordOfGod notes in an interview that it's impossible for him to go back to his old life.



* NewerThanTheyThink: Many game mechanics that are now accepted as standard in the series, like FogOfWar, sidequest chapters, route splits, rescuing, and the current weapon ranking system all debuted in ''Tracia 776'', the ''fifth'' game in the series.

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* NewerThanTheyThink: Many game mechanics that are now accepted as standard in the series, like FogOfWar, sidequest chapters, route splits, rescuing, and the current weapon ranking system all debuted in ''Tracia ''Thracia 776'', the ''fifth'' game in the series.



* PlayerPunch: In Chapter 5, [[spoiler:it is quite painful to watch Quan and Ethlyn ambushed and cut down in the Yied Desert. Your army is, by then, technically in the area--but there is no way to reach them in time]]. And that's just the start of the hits in this chapter. [[spoiler:In which every of the characters you played are killed off.]]

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* PlayerPunch: PlayerPunch:
**
In Chapter 5, [[spoiler:it is quite painful to watch Quan and Ethlyn ambushed and cut down in the Yied Desert. Your army is, by then, technically in the area--but there is no way to reach them in time]]. And that's just the start of the hits in this chapter. [[spoiler:In which every of the characters you played are killed off.]]



** The SadisticChoice regarding Eldigan's fate: you either fight him or have Raquesis talk to him. No problem, right? Talking to an enemy unit usually spares them--nope, talking to him means sending him back to what ultimately gets him executed. LawfulStupid he may have been, it can still be a bit of a punch, knowing that he was one of Sigurd's best friends and remembering how earlier in the game he went out of his way to protect Evans and take out Elliot's army on Sigurd/the player's behalf.



* ThatOneSidequest: A few units are extremely difficult to recruit in ''Thracia 776'', but Xavier is legendary for this. Each of his eight men has had a loved one taken prisoner by the enemy, and as such they're forced to work for them. You can free the loved ones (who take the form of extremely squishy NPCs), then talk to the men to get them to turn coat. Once each of them has talked to their respective NPC (yes, each one can only talk to one specific NPC), you can recruit Xavier. Note that while his men won't attack the NPCs, other enemies in the stage will, and any who haven't been turned ''will'' attack those who have.

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* ThatOneSidequest: A few units are extremely difficult to recruit in ''Thracia 776'', but Xavier is legendary for this. Each of his eight men has had a loved one taken prisoner by the enemy, and as such they're forced to work for them. You can free the loved ones (who take the form of extremely squishy NPCs), [[NonPlayerCharacter NPCs]]), then talk to the men to get them to turn coat. Once each of them has talked to their respective NPC [[NonPlayerCharacter NPC]] (yes, each one can only talk to one specific NPC), [[NonPlayerCharacter NPC]]), you can recruit Xavier. Note that while his men won't attack the NPCs, [[NonPlayerCharacter NPCs]], other enemies in the stage will, and any who haven't been turned ''will'' attack those who have.



* TierInducedScrappy: Arden, dear lord. Also, do NOT mention wanting to use your high priests as combat units. Ever. Sylvia and her children (Leen and Corple) aren't well-liked either, forum discussions will practically ''implore'' you to kill Sylvia or not pair her up and take the substitutes Laylea and Sharlow. Tailto and her children often receive similar reactions; while most would agree that Teeny and Arthur are ''usually'' better than Linda and Amid, Tailto herself is regarded as an awful unit who requires too much babying to be worth it, and pairing her with anyone but Lewyn or Azel (who both have other, potentially better pairings) is generally regarded as pointless.

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* TierInducedScrappy: TierInducedScrappy:
**
Arden, dear lord. Also, do NOT mention wanting to use your high priests as combat units. Ever. Sylvia and her children (Leen and Corple) aren't well-liked either, forum discussions will practically ''implore'' you to kill Sylvia or not pair her up and take the substitutes Laylea and Sharlow. Tailto and her children often receive similar reactions; while most would agree that Teeny and Arthur are ''usually'' better than Linda and Amid, Tailto herself is regarded as an awful unit who requires too much babying to be worth it, and pairing her with anyone but Lewyn or Azel (who both have other, potentially better pairings) is generally regarded as pointless.
4th Mar '16 5:13:56 AM ChrisX
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** A lot of players usually mourn at the fate that befell on [[spoiler:Tailto. The [[GenkiGirl cheeriest]] girl from the first generation [[KillTheCutie received the most depressing death]], being taken away from home and horribly abused by her sister in law, partially to protect her daughter, until [[BreakTheCutie she couldn't help but cry at every day, and died due to illness contracted by the abuse and her despair]]. Even those who thought that [[TierInducedScrappy she's a bad unit for her generation]] will think that her death is depressing, and said sister in law likes to [[EvilGloating gloat about enjoying such torture]] makes the players feel more obligated to have Tailto's children take bloody vengeance upon her.]]

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** A lot of players usually mourn at the fate that befell on [[spoiler:Tailto. The [[GenkiGirl cheeriest]] girl from the first generation [[KillTheCutie received the most depressing death]], being taken away from home and horribly abused by her sister in law, partially to protect her daughter, until [[BreakTheCutie she couldn't help but cry at every day, and died due to illness contracted by the abuse and her despair]].despair as a shadow of her former self]]. Even those who thought that [[TierInducedScrappy she's a bad unit for her generation]] will think that her death is depressing, and said sister in law likes to [[EvilGloating gloat about enjoying such torture]] makes the players feel more obligated to have Tailto's children take bloody vengeance upon her.]]
4th Mar '16 5:13:04 AM ChrisX
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* PlayerPunch: In Chapter 5, [[spoiler:it is quite painful to watch Quan and Ethlyn ambushed and cut down in the Yied Desert. Your army is, by then, technically in the area--but there is no way to reach them in time]]. And that's just the start of the hits in this chapter.

to:

* PlayerPunch: In Chapter 5, [[spoiler:it is quite painful to watch Quan and Ethlyn ambushed and cut down in the Yied Desert. Your army is, by then, technically in the area--but there is no way to reach them in time]]. And that's just the start of the hits in this chapter. [[spoiler:In which every of the characters you played are killed off.]]
** A lot of players usually mourn at the fate that befell on [[spoiler:Tailto. The [[GenkiGirl cheeriest]] girl from the first generation [[KillTheCutie received the most depressing death]], being taken away from home and horribly abused by her sister in law, partially to protect her daughter, until [[BreakTheCutie she couldn't help but cry at every day, and died due to illness contracted by the abuse and her despair]]. Even those who thought that [[TierInducedScrappy she's a bad unit for her generation]] will think that her death is depressing, and said sister in law likes to [[EvilGloating gloat about enjoying such torture]] makes the players feel more obligated to have Tailto's children take bloody vengeance upon her.]]
3rd Mar '16 8:49:16 AM WaxingName
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** The final boss of Thracia 776 is widely considered to be the most ''pathetic'' final boss ever. Most other final bosses can be one-shotted because the character (Often the main character or someone with a special weapon, i.e. Julia in ''Geneology'' and Tiki or Nagi in ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Shadow Dragon]]'') has a weapon that almost doubles the damage done to them and bypasses defense entirely. Veld ([[SpellMyNameWithAnS Beldo/Berdo/Beld]]), meanwhile... is practically just an Upgraded {{Mook}}. You can literally take him out without even ''using'' a special weapon or having Leif lay a finger on him. It's kind of a disappointing end to a NintendoHard game.

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** The final boss of Thracia 776 is widely considered to be the most ''pathetic'' final boss ever. Most other final bosses can be one-shotted because the character (Often the main character or someone with a special weapon, i.e. Julia in ''Geneology'' ''Genealogy'' and Tiki or Nagi in ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Shadow Dragon]]'') has a weapon that almost doubles the damage done to them and bypasses defense entirely. Veld ([[SpellMyNameWithAnS Beldo/Berdo/Beld]]), meanwhile... is practically just an Upgraded {{Mook}}. You can literally take him out without even ''using'' a special weapon or having Leif lay a finger on him. It's kind of a disappointing end to a NintendoHard game.


Added DiffLines:

* BrokenBase: Over the [[MarathonLevel atypically large]] maps for ''Genealogy''. Fans are divided on whether it gave the series some of the most interestingly designed and challenging maps in the series, or if it bogged down a game with otherwise interesting gameplay features.
2nd Mar '16 4:02:26 AM Silverblade2
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* EnsembleDarkhorse: This timeline in general, ''Genealogy of Holy War'' amongst titles, and Ayra.

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: This timeline in general, ''Genealogy of Holy War'' amongst titles, and Ayra.EnsembleDarkhorse:



* MemeticMutation: "I kill X for Y". [[spoiler:Literally, for some characters whose substitute children are considered more preferable character-wise or stat-wise, then the mother (X) must be left childless or get thrown off to a bunch of enemies to die so you get the substitute (Y) instead. Two characters that are unfortunate enough to get this usually include either Tailto or Sylvia (for either Linda or Laylea)]]

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* MemeticMutation: MemeticMutation:
**
"I kill X for Y". [[spoiler:Literally, for some characters whose substitute children are considered more preferable character-wise or stat-wise, then the mother (X) must be left childless or get thrown off to a bunch of enemies to die so you get the substitute (Y) instead. Two characters that are unfortunate enough to get this usually include either Tailto or Sylvia (for either Linda or Laylea)]]



** Anything concerning Sigurd and fire, given that Chapter 5's ending is fast becoming a LateArrivalSpoiler.

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** Anything concerning Sigurd and fire, given that Chapter 5's ending is fast becoming a LateArrivalSpoiler.an ItWasHisSled.



* NewerThanTheyThink: Many game mechanics that are now accepted as standard in the series, like FogOfWar, sidequest chapters, route splits, rescuing, and the current weapon ranking system all debuted in ''Tracia 776'', the ''fifth'' game in the series.



** NewerThanTheyThink: In the opposite direction, many game mechanics that are now accepted as standard in the series, like FogOfWar, sidequest chapters, route splits, rescuing, and the current weapon ranking system all debuted in ''Tracia 776'', the ''fifth'' game in the series.
1st Mar '16 11:35:08 PM BigKlingy
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Added DiffLines:

** Thracia 776 is so far the only game in the series where healing Staves can ''miss''. It's telling that mechanic was never used in the series again. Staves can also double-cast in the same way normal double attacks work, but this is a bad thing too as it can lead to wasting staff uses on healing insignificant amounts of HP.
23rd Feb '16 8:54:46 AM WaxingName
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Despite being a fan-favorite among English speaking Fire Emblem communities, Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu gave the Jugdral games the lowest review scores of the Fire Emblem series.
** Famitsu might not have liked them, but Genealogy of the Holy War was the best-selling Fire Emblem game ever in Japan. Thracia 776 didn't sell very well, but then again, it was released for the SFC in ''1999'' and in regular cartridge form in ''2000'', being the second to last SNES game. (For reference, the UsefulNotes/{{Nintendo 64}} debuted in 1996).
** Which makes it more of a EightPointEight then.
** [[http://mynintendonews.com/2012/01/02/famitsu-readers-rank-the-top-50-nintendo-games-of-all-time/ No, Japan loves it too]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.FireEmblemJugdral