History YMMV / FinalFantasyIV

19th Jun '16 12:58:35 AM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AwesomeMusic: Plenty! [[AwesomeMusic/FinalFantasy This page]] will give you the examples.

to:

* AwesomeMusic: SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Plenty! [[AwesomeMusic/FinalFantasy This page]] will give you the examples.



* CompleteMonster: [[KillAllHumans Zemus]], the true BigBad, was TheCorrupter of, and {{the man behind|TheMan}}, Golbez. Zemus was was the only Lunarian (of which [[TheHero Cecil]] and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Golbez]] are each half-Lunarian) pushing to conquer earth, resulting in him being forced by his own people to fall into a millennium-long coma to allow humanity to evolve until the two could coexist peacefully together. Even in this state, he is ''still'' capable of manipulating Golbez to carry out his [[FinalSolution unsettlingly extreme]] dreams of an all-Lunarian utopia, which involves not only committing the atrocities throughout the entire game, but also using the [[ArtificialHuman artificial]] [[EldritchAbomination abomination]] Giant of Babil capable of dealing massive amounts of racially-based genocide on a global scale. Besides Golbez, Zemus also manipulates Kain during his fight with Cecil, who has turned into a paladin. It is also [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears strongly implied]] that Zemus was responsible for the brainwashing of the four essences' incarnations, thus being responsible for the atrocities committed by the Elemental Archfiends. It is revealed that Zemus's hatred is so strong, that after his defeat, he turns into [[EldritchAbomination Zeromus]], a being "fed by Zemus's unbridled hate...who knows naught but hate!"

to:

* CompleteMonster: [[KillAllHumans Zemus]], the true BigBad, was TheCorrupter of, and {{the man behind|TheMan}}, Golbez. Zemus was was the only Lunarian (of which [[TheHero Cecil]] and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Golbez]] are each half-Lunarian) pushing to conquer earth, resulting in him being forced by his own people to fall into a millennium-long coma to allow humanity to evolve until the two could coexist peacefully together. Even in this state, he is ''still'' capable of manipulating Golbez to carry out his [[FinalSolution unsettlingly extreme]] dreams of an all-Lunarian utopia, which involves not only committing the atrocities throughout the entire game, but also using the [[ArtificialHuman artificial]] {{artificial|Human}} [[EldritchAbomination abomination]] Giant of Babil capable of dealing massive amounts of racially-based genocide on a global scale. Besides Golbez, Zemus also manipulates Kain during his fight with Cecil, who has turned into a paladin. It is also [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears strongly implied]] that Zemus was responsible for the brainwashing of the four essences' incarnations, thus being responsible for the atrocities committed by the Elemental Archfiends. It is revealed that Zemus's hatred is so strong, that after his defeat, he turns into [[EldritchAbomination Zeromus]], a being "fed by Zemus's unbridled hate...who knows naught but hate!"



** Though more of a niche pairing overall, there is fairly sizable number of fans on various sites ([[Website/FanFictionDotNet FFN]], [[Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn AO3]], Website/DeviantArt, Website/{{Tumblr}}, etc.) who like the idea of Kain/Barbariccia, which is [[AllLoveIsUnrequited one-sided on her part]]. [[note]]ShippingGoggles may say otherwise, particularly in ''The After Years''.[[/note]] This has [[CleaningUpRomanticLooseEnds the added benefit of]] [[ShipMates not interfering with Cecil/Rosa or Edge/Rydia]].
** As far as F/F pairings go, [[MinimalistCast the low number of females characters of]] {{nominal importance}} tends to lead to Rosa/Rydia by default, though Rosa/Barbariccia is not unheard of, thanks in part to Rosa being held captive in the Tower of Zot. Rydia/Barbariccia is not uncommon either.

to:

** Though more of a niche pairing overall, there is fairly sizable number of fans on various sites ([[Website/FanFictionDotNet FFN]], [[Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn AO3]], Website/DeviantArt, Website/{{Tumblr}}, etc.) who like the idea of Kain/Barbariccia, which is [[AllLoveIsUnrequited one-sided on her part]]. [[note]]ShippingGoggles may say otherwise, particularly with [[http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/tower-of-zot/#windy-woman certain fan translations]] [[http://zarla-s.tumblr.com/post/95808673479/katimus-quartercirclejab-so-ive-been of the original game]] as well as their brief chat in ''The After Years''.[[/note]] This has [[CleaningUpRomanticLooseEnds the added benefit of]] [[ShipMates not interfering with Cecil/Rosa or Edge/Rydia]].
** As far as F/F pairings go, [[MinimalistCast the low number of females characters of]] {{nominal importance}} tends to lead to Rosa/Rydia by default, though Rosa/Barbariccia is not unheard of, thanks in part to Rosa being held captive in the Tower of Zot. Rydia/Barbariccia Zot (thus leading to [[IHaveYouNowMyPretty certain... interpretations of off-screen events]]). [[ShipsThatPassInTheNight Rydia/Barbariccia]] is not uncommon either.



** Also the Bog Toads in the Sylph Cave that just cast Toad over and over again. The DS release makes them even worse by resetting the character's ATB bar when you get turned into or back from being a Toad, thus causing half your party on average to miss their turn as they transform. However, Draw Attacks can rectify that for you.

to:

** Also the Bog Toads in the Sylph Cave that just cast Toad over and over again. The DS release makes them even worse by resetting the character's ATB bar when you get turned into or back from being a Toad, thus causing half your party on average to miss their turn as they transform. However, the Draw Attacks Augment can rectify that for you.



* MemeticBadass: In some circles, Kain is seen as the ''Final Fantasy'' Creator/ChuckNorris.

to:

* MemeticBadass: In some circles, circles ([[http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Kain_Highwind_Facts for example]]), Kain is seen as the ''Final Fantasy'' Creator/ChuckNorris.



** On the other side of the ocean, Japanese fans have clung to Golbez's "Iidesutomo!", said as he [[spoiler:dual-casts Meteor with Fusoya]]. It was a bonus voice for his EX Burst in ''Dissidia''.

to:

** On the other side of the ocean, Japanese fans have clung to Golbez's "Iidesutomo!", said as he [[spoiler:dual-casts [[spoiler:dualcasts Meteor with Fusoya]]. It was a bonus voice for his EX Burst in ''Dissidia''.



** No, people who've only skimmed the wiki, Kain is ''not'' the poster boy for HeelFaceRevolvingDoor. He only changes sides twice, and both times it's because Golbez takes control of his mind; when Kain is his own person, he's consistently good. Even Square Enix won't let him live it down -- one of his cards in the TCG has the effect of him changing control between players when the opponent plays a Dark-elemental character.

to:

** No, people who've only skimmed the wiki, Kain is ''not'' the poster boy for HeelFaceRevolvingDoor. He only changes sides twice, and both times it's because Golbez takes control of his mind; when Kain is his own person, he's consistently good. [[SelfDeprecation Even Square Enix won't let him live it down down]] -- one of his cards in the TCG has the effect of him changing control between players when the opponent plays a Dark-elemental character.



* TheScrappy: Rosa. She suffers from NeverLiveItDown in regards to being a DamselInDistress. She spent the second half of the game in the main party and is an invaluable healer, but for the second and third dungeons, she's sick, then after being cured goes through a single dungeon with the party before being kidnapped. There's also OvershadowedByAwesome--Rydia is generally a far more popular character and is the focus of several sidequests with her Eidolons, while Rosa's importance to the overarching plot of the game decreases greatly once she's rescued from the Tower of Zot. ''The After Years'' didn't help by making Rydia and the Eidolons central plot points while letting Rosa get kidnapped and saved again; notably, Rosa is the only character from the original game's final party who didn't get their own After Years chapter (given that [[spoiler:Ceodore's "part two" chapter is actually about Kain]]).
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The game was a ''huge'' departure from the previous games at the time. The cast of playable characters is vast, their personalities developed and unique, it was the introduction of the Active Time Battle system, Bosses who required players to adjust their strategies on the fly, and the story is far deeper, the gameplay being driven by the plot instead of the player being free to wander the world. In short, this is when ''Final Fantasy'' truly began to develop its own profile as a game series. Of course, the series has since surpassed the original game in story, character and gameplay complexity, and the game is commonly criticized today for a simple and straightforward story, shallow characters and little gameplay flexibility.
** The ''music'' also falls victim to this, after a fashion. It still sounds good even today, for sure, but in 1991 going from [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQ5qxThDK8 this]] to '''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwagM63UBc this]]''', from NES FM synth to near-perfect [[UsefulNotes/{{MOD}} MOD orchestration-sampling]] gave one a sensation difficult to describe in written words.

to:

* TheScrappy: Rosa. She suffers from NeverLiveItDown in regards to being a DamselInDistress. She spent the second half of the game in the main party and is an invaluable healer, but for the second and third dungeons, she's sick, then after being cured goes through a single dungeon with the party before being kidnapped. There's also OvershadowedByAwesome--Rydia is generally a far more popular character and is the focus of several sidequests with her Eidolons, while Rosa's importance to the overarching plot of the game decreases greatly once she's rescued from the Tower of Zot. ''The After Years'' didn't help by making Rydia and the Eidolons central plot points while letting Rosa get kidnapped and saved again; notably, Rosa is the only character from the original game's final party who didn't get their own After Years ''After Years'' chapter (given that [[spoiler:Ceodore's "part two" "Part 2" chapter is actually about Kain]]).
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The game was a ''huge'' departure from the previous games at the time. The cast of playable characters is vast, their personalities developed and unique, it was the introduction of the Active Time Battle system, Bosses there are bosses who required require players to adjust their strategies on the fly, and the story is far deeper, the gameplay being driven by the plot instead of the player being free to wander the world. In short, this is when ''Final Fantasy'' [[GrowingTheBeard truly began to develop its own profile as a game series.series]]. Of course, the series has since surpassed the original game in story, character and gameplay complexity, and the game is commonly criticized today for a simple and straightforward story, shallow characters and little gameplay flexibility.
** The ''music'' also falls victim to this, after a fashion. It still sounds good even today, for sure, but in 1991 going from [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQ5qxThDK8 this]] to '''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwagM63UBc this]]''', this,]]''' from NES FM synth to near-perfect [[UsefulNotes/{{MOD}} MOD orchestration-sampling]] gave one a sensation difficult to describe in written words.



** The Demon Wall. For the time you fight it, it's incredibly hard, since it has a ton of HP. But, by far, it's best known for its "Crush" move. If it gets too close, it starts using this move exclusively, which is a OneHitKO on a party member. Many a Solo Character Run has come to an end because of this wall.
** Golbez, the second time you encounter him. It's bad enough that you fight him right after fighting the Calcobrina dolls, but the first part of the battle is treated as an in-game cutscene where Golbez kills everyone except Cecil, before [[BigDamnHeroes Rydia shows up]] and frees Cecil from paralysis. When you gain control, that leaves you with a party where just two out of five characters are in fighting shape, leaving you to spend a good part of the battle recovering. Meanwhile, Golbez himself pulls no punches during this, casting -ra and -ga level spells at you.

to:

** The Demon Wall. For the time you fight it, it's incredibly hard, since it has a ton of HP. But, by far, it's best known for its "Crush" move. If it gets too close, it starts using this move exclusively, which is a OneHitKO [[OneHitKill One-Hit KO]] on a party member. Many a Solo Character Run has come to an end because of this wall.
** Golbez, the second time you encounter him. It's bad enough that you fight him right after fighting the Calcobrina Calcabrina dolls, but the first part of the battle is treated as an in-game cutscene where Golbez kills everyone except Cecil, before [[BigDamnHeroes Rydia shows up]] and frees Cecil from paralysis. When you gain control, that leaves you with a party where just two out of five characters are in fighting shape, leaving you to spend a good part of the battle recovering. Meanwhile, Golbez himself pulls no punches during this, casting -ra and -ga level spells at you.



*** Also, this fight can potentially be UnwinnableByMistake. If Cecil is [=KOed=] at the start this battle, Golbez just paralyzes and kills everyone, leaving you to fight the Calcobrina dolls all over again. This makes an already frustrating battle even more annoying when you have no chance to fight back.

to:

*** Also, this fight can potentially be UnwinnableByMistake. If Cecil is [=KOed=] at the start this battle, Golbez just paralyzes and kills everyone, leaving you to fight the Calcobrina Calcabrina dolls all over again. This makes an already frustrating battle even more annoying when you have no chance to fight back.



** Cecil trying to boot Rosa and Rydia out of the party before the VeryDefiniatelyFinalDungeon. In other words, trying to boot out the dedicated healer and the person who can use the most powerful magic ''and'' call down amazingly powerful beings to nuke enemies. Why? They're women. Never mind that his mid-tier white magic would not be sufficient. (For bonus stupid, ''Edge'' mocks Rosa and Rydia when they protest, even though he puts the Fragile in FragileSpeedster and moreover hasn't been in the party for nearly as long as them.)

to:

** Cecil trying to boot Rosa and Rydia out of the party before the VeryDefiniatelyFinalDungeon.TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon. In other words, trying to boot out the dedicated healer and the person who can use the most powerful magic ''and'' call down amazingly powerful beings to nuke enemies. Why? [[StayInTheKitchen They're women. women.]] Never mind that his mid-tier white magic White Magic would not be sufficient. (For bonus stupid, ''Edge'' mocks Rosa and Rydia when they protest, even though he puts the Fragile "Fragile" in FragileSpeedster and moreover hasn't been in the party for nearly as long as them.)



* {{Woolseyism}}: The DS version, courtesy of Tom Slattery. The Eidolons were previously just "summons" but he wanted them to have a proper name like summons did in other titles, so he dug up "Eidolon" from ''Final Fantasy IX'', and he also translated the Mysidian Legend to more clearly refer to the duality of Cecil and Golbez. This is also a case of DoingItForTheArt -- Slattery was a fan of the game and the original plan was to just dump the translated text from the game's GBA release, but Slattery offered to redo the translation from scratch in order to be more faithful to the Japanese and give it more flair.

to:

* {{Woolseyism}}: The DS version, courtesy of Tom Slattery. The Eidolons were previously just "summons" but he wanted them to have a proper name like summons did in other titles, so he dug up "Eidolon" from ''Final Fantasy IX'', ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIX'', and he also translated the Mysidian Legend to more clearly refer to the duality of Cecil and Golbez. This is also a case of DoingItForTheArt -- Slattery was a fan of the game and the original plan was to just dump the translated text from the game's GBA release, but Slattery offered to redo the translation from scratch in order to be more faithful to the Japanese and give it more flair.
9th Jun '16 9:19:17 PM DrakeClawfang
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Rydia also has a large fan-following for her powerful summons and MsFanservice design.

to:

** Rydia also has a large fan-following for her powerful summons and MsFanservice design.
7th Jun '16 12:11:27 PM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** However, in this game Bad Breath can be blocked entirely just by having protection against any one of the statuses it inflicts. Got a Ruby Ring (which only resists Pig)? The Malboros are sitting ducks. It wasn't until VIII that Malboros became "run on sight".

to:

*** However, in this game Bad Breath can be blocked entirely just by having protection against any one of the statuses it inflicts. Got a Ruby Ring (which only resists Pig)? The Malboros are sitting ducks. It wasn't until VIII ''[[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII VIII]]'' that Malboros became "run on sight".sight."



*** Also, this fight can potentially be UnwinnableByMistake. If Cecil is [=KOed=] at the start this battle, Golbez just paralyzes and kills everyone, leaving to fight the Calcobrina dolls all over again. This makes an already frustrating battle even more annoying when you have no chance to fight back.

to:

*** Also, this fight can potentially be UnwinnableByMistake. If Cecil is [=KOed=] at the start this battle, Golbez just paralyzes and kills everyone, leaving you to fight the Calcobrina dolls all over again. This makes an already frustrating battle even more annoying when you have no chance to fight back.
5th Jun '16 10:16:29 PM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Though his fanbase isn't as large as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI Kefka]] or [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], Golbez is pretty popular too. Being what is basically the ''Final Fantasy'' equivalent of Darth Vader will do that for you. The DS version pushes this even further, what with his being voiced by ''[[Series/IronChef Chairman Fucking Kaga]]''.

to:

** Though his fanbase isn't as large as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI Kefka]] or [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], Golbez is pretty popular popular, too. Being what is basically the ''Final Fantasy'' equivalent of Darth Vader will do that for you. The DS version pushes this even further, what with his being voiced by ''[[Series/IronChef Chairman Fucking Kaga]]''.



* FandomRivalry: Fans of the DS remake vs fans of the PSP remake.

to:

* FandomRivalry: Fans of the DS remake vs vs. fans of the PSP remake.



** Though more of a niche pairing overall, there is fairly sizable number of fans on various sites (Website/FanFictionDotNet, Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn, Website/DeviantArt, Website/{{Tumblr}}, etc.) who like the idea of Kain/Barbariccia, which is [[AllLoveIsUnrequited one-sided on her part]]. [[note]]ShippingGoggles may say otherwise, particularly in ''The After Years''.[[/note]] This has [[CleaningUpRomanticLooseEnds the added benefit of]] [[ShipMates not interfering with Cecil/Rosa or Edge/Rydia]].

to:

** Though more of a niche pairing overall, there is fairly sizable number of fans on various sites (Website/FanFictionDotNet, Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn, ([[Website/FanFictionDotNet FFN]], [[Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn AO3]], Website/DeviantArt, Website/{{Tumblr}}, etc.) who like the idea of Kain/Barbariccia, which is [[AllLoveIsUnrequited one-sided on her part]]. [[note]]ShippingGoggles may say otherwise, particularly in ''The After Years''.[[/note]] This has [[CleaningUpRomanticLooseEnds the added benefit of]] [[ShipMates not interfering with Cecil/Rosa or Edge/Rydia]].



* MemeticMutation: Tellah's ''crushing'' insult, "You spoony bard!" It has become so popular that subsequent translations have kept the line, and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyX other games]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII in the series]] (and even a [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWright different series]] altogether!) have included references to it as well.

to:

* MemeticMutation: Tellah's ''crushing'' insult, "You spoony bard!" It has become so popular that subsequent translations have kept the line, and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyX other games]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII in the series]] (and even a [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWright [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney different series]] altogether!) have included references to it as well.



** Tellah gets ''weaker'' every time he levels up, and when he rejoins your party, his MP pool is fixed at 90 points, which gets annoying since ethers are uncommon and he has access to high-level BlackMagic spells (Firaga, Tornado, Bio, etc.) about a fourth of the game in (the Firaga/Thundaga/Blizzaga spells are 30 MP alone). His health is also pathetically low. It correlates with his old age, but still.

to:

** Tellah gets ''weaker'' every time he levels up, and when he rejoins your party, his MP pool is fixed at 90 points, which gets annoying since ethers Ethers are uncommon and he has access to high-level BlackMagic spells (Firaga, Tornado, Bio, etc.) about a fourth of the game in (the Firaga/Thundaga/Blizzaga spells are 30 MP alone). [[SquishyWizard His health is also pathetically low. low.]] [[RealityEnsues It correlates with with]] [[OldMaster his old age, age]], but still.
4th Jun '16 4:04:33 PM X2X
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Edward. Either he's loathed for his weakness in battle coupled with his angsty attitude or he's liked for his spooniness and joining the characters despite being far from a warrior. The remakes have boosted Edward's popularity by making him and his abilities much more useful [[TookALevelInBadass to say nothing of the sequel.]]

to:

** Edward. Either he's loathed for his weakness in battle coupled with his angsty attitude or he's liked for his spooniness and joining the characters despite being far from a warrior. The remakes have boosted Edward's popularity by making him and his abilities much more useful [[TookALevelInBadass to say nothing of the sequel.]]sequel]].



** Cecil himself. Is his journey to redeem himself, becoming a Paladin, and [[spoiler:forgiving his brother Golbez]] interesting and compelling character development? Or is he a flat character for whom becoming a Paladin changes nothing but his outfit and [[spoiler:forgiving Golbez]] is a ForegoneConclusion given his willingness to forgive Kain time after time?
* CompleteMonster: [[KillAllHumans Zemus]], the true BigBad, was TheCorrupter of, and {{the man behind|TheMan}}, Golbez. Zemus was was the only Lunarian (of which [[TheHero Cecil]] and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Golbez]] are each half-Lunarian) pushing to conquer earth, resulting in him being forced by his own people to fall into a millennium-long coma to allow humanity to evolve until the two could coexist peacefully together. Even in this state, he is ''still'' capable of manipulating Golbez to carry out his [[FinalSolution unsettlingly extreme]] dreams of an all-Lunarian utopia, which involves not only committing the atrocities throughout the entire game, but also using the [[ArtificialHuman artificial]] [[EldritchAbomination abomination]] Giant of Babil capable of dealing massive amounts of racially-based genocide on a global scale. Besides Golbez, Zemus also manipulates Kain during his fight with Cecil, who has turned into a paladin. It is also [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears strongly implied]] that Zemus was responsible for the brainwashing of the four essences' incarnations, thus being responsible for the atrocities committed by the Elemental Archfiends. It is revealed that Zemus's hatred is so strong, that after his defeat, he turns into [[EldritchAbomination Zeromus]], a being "fed by Zemus's unbridled hate…who knows naught but hate!"

to:

** Cecil himself. Is his journey to redeem himself, becoming a Paladin, and [[spoiler:forgiving his brother Golbez]] interesting and compelling character development? Or is he a flat character {{flat character}} for whom becoming a Paladin changes nothing but his outfit and [[spoiler:forgiving Golbez]] is a ForegoneConclusion given his willingness to forgive Kain time after time?
* CompleteMonster: [[KillAllHumans Zemus]], the true BigBad, was TheCorrupter of, and {{the man behind|TheMan}}, Golbez. Zemus was was the only Lunarian (of which [[TheHero Cecil]] and [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Golbez]] are each half-Lunarian) pushing to conquer earth, resulting in him being forced by his own people to fall into a millennium-long coma to allow humanity to evolve until the two could coexist peacefully together. Even in this state, he is ''still'' capable of manipulating Golbez to carry out his [[FinalSolution unsettlingly extreme]] dreams of an all-Lunarian utopia, which involves not only committing the atrocities throughout the entire game, but also using the [[ArtificialHuman artificial]] [[EldritchAbomination abomination]] Giant of Babil capable of dealing massive amounts of racially-based genocide on a global scale. Besides Golbez, Zemus also manipulates Kain during his fight with Cecil, who has turned into a paladin. It is also [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears strongly implied]] that Zemus was responsible for the brainwashing of the four essences' incarnations, thus being responsible for the atrocities committed by the Elemental Archfiends. It is revealed that Zemus's hatred is so strong, that after his defeat, he turns into [[EldritchAbomination Zeromus]], a being "fed by Zemus's unbridled hate…who hate...who knows naught but hate!"



** Among the Elemental Archfiends, Barbarraccia and Rubicante have more of a following than the other two. The former thanks to her [[EvilIsSexy sexiness]] and Strippiffic outfit, and the latter thanks to his NobleDemon tendencies.

to:

** Among the Elemental Archfiends, Barbarraccia Barbariccia and Rubicante have more of a following than the other two. The former thanks to her [[EvilIsSexy sexiness]] and Strippiffic outfit, [[{{Stripperiffic}} outfit]], and the latter thanks to his NobleDemon tendencies.



* FanPreferredCouple: Edge/Rydia, thanks to all their BelligerentSexualTension.

to:

* FanPreferredCouple: Edge/Rydia, thanks to all their BelligerentSexualTension. [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears The sequel]], where they [[spoiler:more or less adopt a child together by the end]], only bolstered the ship's popularity.



** Cecil/Rosa/Kain is a popular {{OT3}}.

to:

** Cecil/Rosa/Kain is a popular {{OT3}}.[[OneTrueThreesome OT3]].



** Though more of a niche pairing overall, there is fairly sizable number of fans on various sites (Website/FanFictionDotNet, Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn, Website/DeviantArt, Website/{{Tumblr}}, etc.) who like the idea of Kain/Barbariccia, which is [[AllLoveIsUnrequited one-sided on her part]]. [[note]]ShippingGoggles may say otherwise, particularly in ''The After Years''.[[/note]] This has [[CleaningUpRomanticLooseEnds the added benefit of]] [[ShipMates not interfering with Cecil/Rosa or Edge/Rydia]].
** As far as F/F pairings go, [[MinimalistCast the low number of females characters of]] {{nominal importance}} tends to lead to Rosa/Rydia by default, though Rosa/Barbariccia is not unheard of, thanks in part to Rosa being held captive in the Tower of Zot. Rydia/Barbariccia is not uncommon either.



* GoodBadBugs: The original American release had one regarding the Sylph summon - if Rydia's hit points were full, the recovery portion of the spell would restore her magic points instead. This became a go-to attack spell, as it would heal allies, damage enemies, and restore her magic all in one shot. This was corrected in later releases - which surprised some people, as it was thought for a while that this was all ''by design'', given that Sylph is a sidequest-reward summon involving traversing a difficult dungeon and quite a bit of running around on the related sidequest.
** Additionally, using the Warp spell to get back into the Dwarf Kingdom's Crystal Room, and claim the Dark Crystal there, would let you skip the Sealed Cave entirely (though you'd probably have to make up for the missed Exp and loot elsewhere.) The "Crystal Room Warp Trick" was also removed from subsequent releases.

to:

* GoodBadBugs: The original American release had one regarding the Sylph summon - -- if Rydia's hit points were full, the recovery portion of the spell would restore her magic points instead. This became a go-to attack spell, as it would heal allies, damage enemies, and restore her magic all in one shot. This was corrected in later releases - -- which surprised some people, as it was thought for a while that this was all ''by design'', given that Sylph is a sidequest-reward summon involving traversing a difficult dungeon and quite a bit of running around on the related sidequest.
** Additionally, using the Warp spell to get back into the Dwarf Kingdom's Crystal Room, and claim the Dark Crystal there, would let you skip the Sealed Cave entirely (though you'd probably have to make up for the missed Exp and loot elsewhere.) elsewhere). The "Crystal Room Warp Trick" was also removed from subsequent releases.



* ItWasHisSled: Cecil becomes a Paladin. Heck, the remakes incorporate his transformation into their openings! To a lesser extent, [[spoiler:Golbez is Cecil's brother]]. ''DissidiaFinalFantasy'' makes it the central plot point of Cecil's story arc, and ''The After Years'' of course brings it up too. The DS version takes it further still by including Paladin Cecil in the character guide at the start of the manual, explicitly explaining that Cecil will overcome a trial to turn to the side of good.

to:

* ItWasHisSled: Cecil becomes a Paladin. Heck, the remakes incorporate his transformation into their openings! To a lesser extent, [[spoiler:Golbez is Cecil's brother]]. ''DissidiaFinalFantasy'' ''VideoGame/DissidiaFinalFantasy'' makes it the central plot point of Cecil's story arc, and ''The After Years'' of course brings it up up, too. The DS version takes it further still by including Paladin Cecil in the character guide at the start of the manual, explicitly explaining that Cecil will overcome a trial to turn to the side of good.



* MemeticBadass: In some circles, Kain is seen as the ''Final Fantasy'' Chuck Norris.
* MemeticMutation: Tellah's ''crushing'' insult, "You spoony bard!" It has become so popular that subsequent translations have kept the line, and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyX other games]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII in the series]] (and even a [[PhoenixWright different series]] altogether!) have included references to it as well.
** There's also some FridgeBrilliance - "spoony" actually isn't a completely nonsensical word, it's just a rather archaic word describing being enamored with something silly, or being foolishly in love....and that ''actually'' fits how Tellah sees Edward!
** To quote WordOfGod "We checked and he really was spoony" when questioned about why they put the quote back in after taking it out.
** On the other side of the ocean, Japanese fans have clung to Golbez's "Iidesutomo!", said as he [[spoiler:dual-casts Meteor with Fusoya]]. It was a bonus voice for his EX Burst in Dissidia.

to:

* MemeticBadass: In some circles, Kain is seen as the ''Final Fantasy'' Chuck Norris.
Creator/ChuckNorris.
* MemeticMutation: Tellah's ''crushing'' insult, "You spoony bard!" It has become so popular that subsequent translations have kept the line, and [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyX other games]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyXII in the series]] (and even a [[PhoenixWright [[VisualNovel/PhoenixWright different series]] altogether!) have included references to it as well.
** There's also some FridgeBrilliance - -- "spoony" actually isn't a completely nonsensical word, it's just a rather archaic word describing being enamored with something silly, or being foolishly in love....love... and that ''actually'' fits how Tellah sees Edward!
** To quote WordOfGod WordOfGod, "We checked and he really was spoony" when questioned about why they put the quote back in after taking it out.
** On the other side of the ocean, Japanese fans have clung to Golbez's "Iidesutomo!", said as he [[spoiler:dual-casts Meteor with Fusoya]]. It was a bonus voice for his EX Burst in Dissidia.''Dissidia''.



** On the one hand, the original Super NES release gave us "You SpoonyBard". On the other hand, when Tellah uses Meteor against Golbez, his reaction is the entirely out-of-character "[[TotallyRadical No way]]!"

to:

** On the one hand, the original Super NES release gave us "You SpoonyBard".spoony bard!" (which [[TropeNamers spawned]] [[QuirkyBard its own trope here]] [[RenamedTropes for a time]]). On the other hand, when Tellah uses Meteor against Golbez, his reaction is the entirely out-of-character "[[TotallyRadical No way]]!"



** The SNES translation turns the Fabul Monks' war cry into "Achooo!", giving the unintended implication that the reason Golbez's forces were able to win so easily was because he happened to invade while the Monks were all suffering from colds.

to:

** The SNES translation turns the Fabul Monks' war cry into "Achooo!", [[FunnyBruceLeeNoises "Achooo!"]], giving the unintended implication that the reason Golbez's forces were able to win so easily was because he happened to invade while the Monks were all suffering from colds.



** No, people who've only skimmed the wiki, Kain is ''not'' the poster boy for HeelFaceRevolvingDoor. He only changes sides twice, and both times it's because Golbez takes control of his mind; when Kain is his own person, he's consistently good. Even Square-Enix won't let him live it down -- one of his cards in the [=TCG=] has the effect of him changing control between players when the opponent plays a Dark-elemental character.

to:

** No, people who've only skimmed the wiki, Kain is ''not'' the poster boy for HeelFaceRevolvingDoor. He only changes sides twice, and both times it's because Golbez takes control of his mind; when Kain is his own person, he's consistently good. Even Square-Enix Square Enix won't let him live it down -- one of his cards in the [=TCG=] TCG has the effect of him changing control between players when the opponent plays a Dark-elemental character.



** When Palom and Porom [[spoiler: turn themselves to stone, Tellah says that it can't be undone due to being petrified by their own will (despite Porom, being a White Mage, can't actually cast Break). When the Giant of Babil awakens, they show up, perfectly fine and claiming that the Elder unpetrified them]].
** When Golbez's Shadow Dragon makes the party "swoon" one by one, until Cecil is left...and then [[spoiler:Rydia shows up DeusExMachina completely out of nowhere to save Cecil's backside.]]

to:

** When Palom and Porom [[spoiler: turn [[spoiler:turn themselves to stone, Tellah says that it can't be undone due to being petrified by their own will (despite Porom, being as a White Mage, can't actually being unable to cast Break).Break in-game). When the Giant of Babil awakens, they show up, perfectly fine and claiming that the Elder unpetrified them]].
** When Golbez's Shadow Dragon makes the party "swoon" one by one, until Cecil is left... and then [[spoiler:Rydia shows up DeusExMachina completely out of nowhere to save Cecil's backside.]]backside]].



* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Various remakes and ''The After Years'' have tried making Edward more useful, which has mitigated the hate somewhat. Being subject to Final Fantasy's most famous meme doesn't hurt either.
* TheScrappy: Rosa. She suffers from NeverLiveItDown in regards to being a DamselInDistress. She spent the second half of the game in the main party and is an invaluable healer, but for the second and third dungeons, she's sick, then after being cured goes through a single dungeon with the party before being kidnapped. There's also OvershadowedByAwesome--Rydia is generally a far more popular character and is the focus of several sidequests with her Eidolons, while Rosa's importance to the overarching plot of the game decreases greatly once she's rescued from the Tower of Zot. ''The After Years'' didn't help by making Rydia and the Eidolons central plot points while letting Rosa get kidnapped and saved again; notably, Rosa is the only character from the original game's final party who didn't get their own After Years chapter (given that [[spoiler:Ceodore's "part two" chapter is actually about Kain.]])

to:

* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Various remakes and ''The After Years'' have tried making Edward more useful, which has mitigated the hate somewhat. Being subject to Final Fantasy's ''Final Fantasy''[='s=] most famous meme doesn't hurt either.
* TheScrappy: Rosa. She suffers from NeverLiveItDown in regards to being a DamselInDistress. She spent the second half of the game in the main party and is an invaluable healer, but for the second and third dungeons, she's sick, then after being cured goes through a single dungeon with the party before being kidnapped. There's also OvershadowedByAwesome--Rydia is generally a far more popular character and is the focus of several sidequests with her Eidolons, while Rosa's importance to the overarching plot of the game decreases greatly once she's rescued from the Tower of Zot. ''The After Years'' didn't help by making Rydia and the Eidolons central plot points while letting Rosa get kidnapped and saved again; notably, Rosa is the only character from the original game's final party who didn't get their own After Years chapter (given that [[spoiler:Ceodore's "part two" chapter is actually about Kain.]])Kain]]).



** The ''music'' also falls victim to this, after a fashion. It still sounds good even today, for sure, but in 1991 going from [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQ5qxThDK8 this]] to '''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwagM63UBc this]]''', from NES FM synth to near-perfect [[{{UsefulNotes/MOD}} MOD orchestration-sampling]] gave one a sensation difficult to describe in written words.

to:

** The ''music'' also falls victim to this, after a fashion. It still sounds good even today, for sure, but in 1991 going from [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQ5qxThDK8 this]] to '''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwagM63UBc this]]''', from NES FM synth to near-perfect [[{{UsefulNotes/MOD}} [[UsefulNotes/{{MOD}} MOD orchestration-sampling]] gave one a sensation difficult to describe in written words.



*** Since Kain is the fastest character in your group, just tell Kain to jump as he should always get his turn before Golbez gets his. If he jumps before Golbez starts his gloating, [[GoodBadBugs Kain won't get hit by the Shadow Dragon's instant death attack.]] That leaves you with 3 out of 5 people in good fighting condition. The only way this can fail is if Golbez goes before Kain (you'd have to be pretty under-leveled for this to happen) or if Kain lands before Golbez starts gloating (which requires excessive level grinding). If Kain jumps before the Shadow Dragon is summoned but lands before Golbez paralyses everybody, Kain will not get paralyzed, and the Shadow Dragon ''still'' won't kill him.

to:

*** Since Kain is the fastest character in your group, just tell Kain to jump Jump as he should always get his turn before Golbez gets his. If he jumps before Golbez starts his gloating, [[GoodBadBugs Kain won't get hit by the Shadow Dragon's instant death attack.]] attack]]. That leaves you with 3 out of 5 people in good fighting condition. The only way this can fail is if Golbez goes before Kain (you'd have to be pretty under-leveled for this to happen) or if Kain lands before Golbez starts gloating (which requires excessive level grinding). If Kain jumps before the Shadow Dragon is summoned but lands before Golbez paralyses everybody, Kain will not get paralyzed, and the Shadow Dragon ''still'' won't kill him.



** The games attempt ''badly'' to incorporate all previous art styles of the characters, which has varied DependingOnTheArtist, and at times depictions of the characters is entirely different. Compare [[http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/d/da/FF4PSP-CecilPSprite.png Cecil's battle sprite]] with [[http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/1/1a/FF4PSP_Paladin_Cecil_Portrait.png his menu portrait]].
** As covered under BonusFeatureFailure on the main page, the Interlude bonus story has less effort put into it than a fan hack, with the enemies being exactly the same as in the base game, encounter groups being mostly the same, and you can count on both hands how many new enemies were in the game. How much did they not care? Enemies drop equipment for characters that aren't even playable in the Interlude, like the Flame Lance for Kain.

to:

** The games attempt ''badly'' to incorporate all previous art styles of the characters, which has varied DependingOnTheArtist, and at times depictions of the characters is entirely different. Compare [[http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/d/da/FF4PSP-CecilPSprite.png Cecil's battle sprite]] with [[http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/1/1a/FF4PSP_Paladin_Cecil_Portrait.png his menu portrait]].
portrait.]]
** As covered under BonusFeatureFailure on the main page, the Interlude ''-Interlude-'' bonus story has less effort put into it than a fan hack, with the enemies being exactly the same as in the base game, encounter groups being mostly the same, and you can count on both hands how many new enemies were in the game. How much did they not care? Enemies drop equipment for characters that aren't even playable in the Interlude, ''-Interlude-'', like the Flame Lance for Kain.



* UrbanLegendOfZelda: It was rumored that in the original (i.e. Japanese) version of the game, it was possible for Cecil to de-petrify [[spoiler:Palom and Porom]] himself, by following some convoluted method which, depending to who you heard it from, [[spoiler:may involve the very real DevelopersRoom EasterEgg]]. You can't. It doesn't help that the game teases you by giving you an option to choose an item to use on them if you interact with their petrified form; no matter what you use, nothing will happen. (This is a holdover from the Japanese version, where you still couldn't actually accomplish anything but where there was at least a [[http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/baron-castle-2/ special message]] if you tried to use a Golden Needle to help them in an acknowledgement of the usual [[{{Headscratchers}} headscratcher]] of using curative items to reverse a PlotlineDeath. Since the Golden Needle was DummiedOut in the American / Easytype release, even that bare message is unavailable.)

to:

* UrbanLegendOfZelda: It was rumored that in the original (i.e. Japanese) version of the game, it was possible for Cecil to de-petrify [[spoiler:Palom and Porom]] himself, by following some convoluted method which, depending to who you heard it from, [[spoiler:may involve the very real DevelopersRoom EasterEgg]]. You can't. It doesn't help that the game teases you by giving you an option to choose an item to use on them if you interact with their petrified form; no matter what you use, nothing will happen. (This is a holdover from the Japanese version, where you still couldn't actually accomplish anything but where there was at least a [[http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/baron-castle-2/ special message]] if you tried to use a Golden Needle to help them in an acknowledgement of the usual [[{{Headscratchers}} headscratcher]] headscratcher of using curative items to reverse a PlotlineDeath. Since the Golden Needle was DummiedOut in the American / Easytype American/Easytype release, even that bare message is unavailable.)



** Cecil borrows a world crystal (which are pretty damn important, and which are being gathered for unknown nefarious reasons) to give to Golbez in exchange for Rosa. He doesn't try to create a fake or trick Golbez or even ''make sure Golbez gives Rosa back first''; he just hands it over. [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo Guess what]] [[ILied happens next]]. By extention the entire party in the Tower of Zot, especially when you read Yang's thoughts in the DS version--he rightly thinks that Kain's offered deal is fishy as hell and ''doesn't say a damn word''.

to:

** Cecil borrows a world crystal Crystal (which are pretty damn important, and which are being gathered for unknown nefarious reasons) to give to Golbez in exchange for Rosa. He doesn't try to create a fake or trick Golbez or even ''make sure Golbez gives Rosa back first''; he just hands it over. [[YouSaidYouWouldLetThemGo Guess what]] [[ILied happens next]]. By extention the entire party in the Tower of Zot, especially when you read Yang's thoughts in the DS version--he rightly thinks that Kain's offered deal is fishy as hell and ''doesn't say a damn word''.



** Believe it or not, the original SNES version had one improvement - the item that Cecil delivers to Mist is called the Bomb Ring in the original game. While that would have fit (with some editing) in the original English translation, Cecil comes off as a bit stupid when he doesn't realize what a Bomb Ring will do when it gets to its destination. Becoming merely a Package makes Cecil seem like much less of a fool. Not coincidentally, Slattery similarly did not keep the original Japanese name - he went with a MeaningfulName of the Carnelian Signet (carnelian being a bright red stone, with the additional meaning of "strength to conquer one's enemies").

to:

** Believe it or not, the original SNES version had one improvement - -- the item that Cecil delivers to Mist is called the Bomb Ring in the original game. While that would have fit (with some editing) in the original English translation, Cecil comes off as a bit stupid when he doesn't realize what a Bomb Ring will do when it gets to its destination. Becoming merely a Package makes Cecil seem like much less of a fool. Not coincidentally, Slattery similarly did not keep the original Japanese name - -- he went with a MeaningfulName of the Carnelian Signet (carnelian being a bright red stone, with the additional meaning of "strength to conquer one's enemies").
1st Jun '16 10:11:47 PM SheldonDinkleburg
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** The BonusBoss of ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'' makes a remark wondering why bosses don't use their strongest attack first. Dark Bahamut does in fact open with Mega Flare, making him look GenreSavvy in retrospect.
10th May '16 12:55:37 PM 32_Footsteps
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** Believe it or not, the original SNES version had one improvement - the item that Cecil delivers to Mist is called the Bomb Ring in the original game. While that would have fit (with some editing) in the original English translation, Cecil comes off as a bit stupid when he doesn't realize what a Bomb Ring will do when it gets to its destination. Becoming merely a Package makes Cecil seem like much less of a fool. Not coincidentally, Slattery similarly did not keep the original Japanese name - he went with a MeaningfulName of the Carnelian Signet (carnelian being a bright red stone, with the additional meaning of "strength to conquer one's enemies").
10th May '16 7:11:45 AM DrakeClawfang
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Rydia also has a large fan-following. She and Kain evolved into {{Breakout Character}}s thanks to ''The After Years'' where they play much larger roles in the story than Cecil or Rosa.

to:

** Rydia also has a large fan-following. She fan-following for her powerful summons and Kain evolved into {{Breakout Character}}s thanks to ''The After Years'' where they play much larger roles in the story than Cecil or Rosa.MsFanservice design.
10th May '16 7:11:01 AM DrakeClawfang
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Cecil himself. Is his journey to redeem himself, becoming a Paladin, and [[spoiler:forgiving his brother Golbez]] interesting and compelling character development? Or is he a flat character for whom becoming a Paladin changes nothing but his outfit and [[spoiler:forgiving Golbez]] is a ForgoneConclusion given his willingness to forgive Kain time after time?

to:

** Cecil himself. Is his journey to redeem himself, becoming a Paladin, and [[spoiler:forgiving his brother Golbez]] interesting and compelling character development? Or is he a flat character for whom becoming a Paladin changes nothing but his outfit and [[spoiler:forgiving Golbez]] is a ForgoneConclusion ForegoneConclusion given his willingness to forgive Kain time after time?
10th May '16 7:10:00 AM DrakeClawfang
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Among the Elemental Archfiends, Barbarraccia and Rubicante have more of a following than the other two. The former thanks to her [[EvilIsSexy sexiness]] and Strippiffic outfit, and the latter thanks to his NobleDemon tendencies.

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: EnsembleDarkhorse:
** Rydia also has a large fan-following. She and Kain evolved into {{Breakout Character}}s thanks to ''The After Years'' where they play much larger roles in the story than Cecil or Rosa.
** Though his fanbase isn't as large as [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI Kefka]] or [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Sephiroth]], Golbez is pretty popular too. Being what is basically the ''Final Fantasy'' equivalent of Darth Vader will do that for you. The DS version pushes this even further, what with his being voiced by ''[[Series/IronChef Chairman Fucking Kaga]]''.
**
Among the Elemental Archfiends, Barbarraccia and Rubicante have more of a following than the other two. The former thanks to her [[EvilIsSexy sexiness]] and Strippiffic outfit, and the latter thanks to his NobleDemon tendencies.


Added DiffLines:

* MemeticBadass: In some circles, Kain is seen as the ''Final Fantasy'' Chuck Norris.
This list shows the last 10 events of 141. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.FinalFantasyIV