History YMMV / Embers

15th Feb '17 8:43:27 AM Kalaong
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* CrazyAwesome: Played straight with references to Bumi: 'we all need to think like mad geniuses.' Deconstructed with Zuko. Many of the things he does, like [[spoiler:suggesting that people of fire and earth live together, escaping by amphibious train, using firebending and oil as a drill to free the Suzuran,]] following turtle seals under the ice and so on are regarded as absolutely insane. And yet he pulls them off. However, from Zuko's POV, these things are shown not to be acts of mad genius, but acts of desperation, very thoroughly planned out, and/or very possible given Avatarverse laws of physics. [[spoiler:Not to mention several decades of experience experimenting with lost or novel forms of bending: Zuko didn't come up with most of that stuff, Kuzon did.]]
* HateFic: A textbook example; Creator/{{Vathara}} absolutely brutalizes ''everyone'' except the [[RootingForTheEmpire Fire Nation]] in general and [[DracoInLeatherPants Zuko]] in particular(though the [[SecretPolice Dai Li]] also get a few inches of whitewashing). Strangely for a Zuko-centric fic, [[LauncherOfAThousandShips Katara]] not only doesn't end up falling for the [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys brooding Fire Prince]], but gets tortured ''even worse'' than every character save [[TakeThatScrappy Aang]](whose Nation is {{Retcon}}ned to be EvilAllAlong and his canon relationship with Katara is [[BrokenPedestal severely damaged]]), stated ''InUniverse'' to be punishment for hating Zuko.

to:

* CrazyAwesome: Played straight with references to Bumi: 'we all need to think like mad geniuses.' Deconstructed with Zuko. Many of the things he does, like [[spoiler:suggesting that people of fire and earth live together, escaping by amphibious train, using firebending and oil as a drill to free the Suzuran,]] following turtle seals under the ice and so on are regarded as absolutely insane. And yet he pulls them off. However, from Zuko's POV, these things are shown not to be acts of mad genius, but acts of desperation, very thoroughly planned out, and/or very possible given Avatarverse laws of physics. [[spoiler:Not to mention several decades of experience experimenting with lost or novel forms of bending: Zuko didn't come up with most of that stuff, Kuzon did.]]
* HateFic: A textbook example; Creator/{{Vathara}} absolutely brutalizes ''everyone'' except the [[RootingForTheEmpire Fire Nation]] in general and [[DracoInLeatherPants Zuko]] in particular(though the [[SecretPolice Dai Li]] also get a few inches of whitewashing). Strangely for a Zuko-centric fic, [[LauncherOfAThousandShips Katara]] not only doesn't end up falling for the [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys brooding Fire Prince]], but gets tortured ''even worse'' than every character save [[TakeThatScrappy Aang]](whose Nation is {{Retcon}}ned to be EvilAllAlong and his canon relationship with Katara is [[BrokenPedestal severely damaged]]), stated ''InUniverse'' to be punishment for hating Zuko.
]]not
16th Jan '17 5:48:26 PM Kalaong
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--->'''Zuko'''': ''I wish I could stop the war, Toph. I really wish I could. But I can't. Because you know what will happen if it stops? They'll come for us. The Earth Kingdom, the Water Tribes… you have no idea how much they hate us. They'll come.''

to:

--->'''Zuko'''': --->'''Zuko''': ''I wish I could stop the war, Toph. I really wish I could. But I can't. Because you know what will happen if it stops? They'll come for us. The Earth Kingdom, the Water Tribes… you have no idea how much they hate us. They'll come.''
7th Jan '17 7:03:02 PM Kalaong
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Added DiffLines:

* HateFic: A textbook example; Creator/{{Vathara}} absolutely brutalizes ''everyone'' except the [[RootingForTheEmpire Fire Nation]] in general and [[DracoInLeatherPants Zuko]] in particular(though the [[SecretPolice Dai Li]] also get a few inches of whitewashing). Strangely for a Zuko-centric fic, [[LauncherOfAThousandShips Katara]] not only doesn't end up falling for the [[AllGirlsWantBadBoys brooding Fire Prince]], but gets tortured ''even worse'' than every character save [[TakeThatScrappy Aang]](whose Nation is {{Retcon}}ned to be EvilAllAlong and his canon relationship with Katara is [[BrokenPedestal severely damaged]]), stated ''InUniverse'' to be punishment for hating Zuko.
3rd Nov '16 11:16:43 AM Eagal
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* BellisariosMaxim: Since Vathara averts it for the original series, she can't complain if readers [[FanDumb fail to apply it to the fic.]]
3rd Nov '16 11:16:05 AM Eagal
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* BetterThanCanon: What most still reading it think.

to:

* %%* BetterThanCanon: What most still reading it think.
3rd Nov '16 11:15:39 AM Eagal
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* UnfortunateImplications: The number of these in the series was much of what inspired the fic.
3rd Nov '16 11:15:03 AM Eagal
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* BlackHoleSue: A sizeable chunk of people consider Zuko one. [[BrokenBase And that is all that should be said on that matter.]]
10th Jun '16 1:03:48 AM Kalaong
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Added DiffLines:

--->'''Zuko'''': ''I wish I could stop the war, Toph. I really wish I could. But I can't. Because you know what will happen if it stops? They'll come for us. The Earth Kingdom, the Water Tribes… you have no idea how much they hate us. They'll come.''
5th Jul '14 11:29:53 PM ThestralDawn
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Added DiffLines:

* BlackHoleSue: A sizeable chunk of people consider Zuko one. [[BrokenBase And that is all that should be said on that matter.]]
11th Apr '14 9:02:15 PM IchigoMontoya
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*** When it comes to the causes of the war, some people see "but"s that make the Fire Nation "Innocent" and others see "why"s that don't.
*** With [[spoiler:loyalty]], some see it as [[spoiler:a gun to the head forcing the Fire Nation to do things they don't want to, making them victims and ultimately innocent]] while others see it as, at worst, [[spoiler:a gun to the head of a gangster; sure, the gang will kill him if he tries to leave or go straight, but he joined up willingly and ''likes'' hurting people, so it's a non-issue.]]
*** Vathara's culture for the Air Nomads: [[spoiler:did she make them evil baby stealers as part of a HumiliationConga who deserved to die, or is it a valid interpretation of what's presented in canon?]]
*** The GambitPileup; some see it as part of a complex web of reasons, others see it as an excuse for the Fire Nation to go to war with the Air Nomads.
* CrazyAwesome: Played straight with references to Bumi: 'we all need to think like mad geniuses.' Deconstructed with Zuko. Many of the things he does, like [[spoiler:suggesting that people of fire and earth live together, escaping by amphibious train, using firebending and oil as a drill to free the Suzuran,]] following turtle seals under the ice and so on are regarded as absolutely freaking insane. And yet he pulls them off. However, from Zuko's POV, these things are shown not to be acts of mad genius, but acts of desperation, very thoroughly planned out, and/or very possible given Avatarverse laws of physics. [[spoiler:Not to mention several decades of experience experimenting with lost or novel forms of bending: Zuko didn't come up with most of that stuff, Kuzon did.]]

to:

*** ** When it comes to the causes of the war, some people see "but"s that make the Fire Nation "Innocent" and others see "why"s that don't.
*** ** With [[spoiler:loyalty]], some see it as [[spoiler:a gun to the head forcing the Fire Nation to do things they don't want to, making them victims and ultimately innocent]] while others see it as, at worst, [[spoiler:a gun to the head of a gangster; sure, the gang will kill him if he tries to leave or go straight, but he joined up willingly and ''likes'' hurting people, so it's a non-issue.]]
*** ** Vathara's culture for the Air Nomads: [[spoiler:did she make them evil baby stealers as part of a HumiliationConga who deserved to die, or is it a valid interpretation of what's presented in canon?]]
*** ** The GambitPileup; some see it as part of a complex web of reasons, others see it as an excuse for the Fire Nation to go to war with the Air Nomads.
* CrazyAwesome: Played straight with references to Bumi: 'we all need to think like mad geniuses.' Deconstructed with Zuko. Many of the things he does, like [[spoiler:suggesting that people of fire and earth live together, escaping by amphibious train, using firebending and oil as a drill to free the Suzuran,]] following turtle seals under the ice and so on are regarded as absolutely freaking insane. And yet he pulls them off. However, from Zuko's POV, these things are shown not to be acts of mad genius, but acts of desperation, very thoroughly planned out, and/or very possible given Avatarverse laws of physics. [[spoiler:Not to mention several decades of experience experimenting with lost or novel forms of bending: Zuko didn't come up with most of that stuff, Kuzon did.]]



* ValuesDissonance: Vathara has invoked this '''''everywhere.'''''

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* ValuesDissonance: Vathara has invoked this '''''everywhere.'''''



*** This even applies to ''warfare.'' Zuko believes the War is wrong because the Fire Nation will be unable to hold its new territories, and as a result be unable to prevent retaliation by the other nations - retaliation that will kill pretty much everyone in the Fire Nation. He ''doesn't'' believe that the war is ''immoral'', just ''unsuccessful.'' Vathara suggests this is inherent to their culture - a throwback to the constant state of clan warfare in which the only law was; "War is [[NotCheatingUnlessYouGetCaught only immoral if you lose.]]"

to:

*** This even applies to ''warfare.'' Zuko believes the War is wrong because the Fire Nation will be unable to hold its new territories, and as a result be unable to prevent retaliation by the other nations - retaliation that will kill pretty much everyone in the Fire Nation. He ''doesn't'' doesn't believe that the war is ''immoral'', immoral, just ''unsuccessful.'' Vathara suggests this is inherent to their culture - a throwback to the constant state of clan warfare in which the only law was; "War is [[NotCheatingUnlessYouGetCaught only immoral if you lose.]]"
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