History YMMV / Dune

14th Aug '17 9:17:10 PM Anddrix
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* CoolButStupid: Part of the SpaceAgeStasis of the books is the idea that the pinnacle of combat technology was one-on-one combat between lightly dressed, knife-wielding men wearing (Holtzman) DeflectorShields. These shields only allow low-speed attacks to penetrate. In-universe, this means essentially that guns don't work, so the only way to beat a well-trained knifeman was to attack them with a better-trained knifeman. The author appears to have had a failure of imagination at this point:
** An army would be unbeatable in such combats if they simply wore physical armour in addition to using DeflectorShields. Duncan Idaho wouldn't have made much headway against a phalnax of soldiers in plate armour.
** There are plenty of mundane ways to attack a man other than with high-speed projectile weapons - napalm and bulldozers would do the job without requiring a lifetime of training.
** In-universe, suspensor fields could carry heavy loads, and be controlled remotely - hunter seekers were levitating drones used as assassination weapons. Such drones equipped with nets, napalm and other low-speed weapons would be a hard counter to infantry with DeflectorShields.



* InformedAttribute: the reader is repeatedly told about Bene Gesserit training resulting in beyond-Yogi level of control over the body and emotions. They can trigger individual muscles, go into suspended animation, conquer fear, and any one of them could chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. However, the reader is also repeatedly told about Bene Gesserit trained characters having no control, and publicly displaying tension and strong emotion, such as bursting into tears, or having to literally hide their faces (e.g. Irulan hiding a smile behind her hand, when she's pulled off a GuileHero gambit, at the beginning of Dune Messiah).
* MacGuffin: The spice. It has the property of unlocking mental abilities. This is only useful to very small, select groups, such as the spacefaring guild. If only a few thousand freaks and special cases had any use for spice, when spice could be harvested by the ton, the price would be negligible. The thing in Dune that makes spice such an expensive, in-demand source of PlotCoupons is that it confers longevity. Unfortunately for the story, this property of spice is repeatedly contradicted, most clearly in that the Fremen do NOT have long lifespans, despite their massive intake of spice. A 350 year interval is described for them as: "Our generation will not see it, nor our children nor our children's children, nor the grandchildren of their children". Also, none of the human royalty are stated as living for more than a century, nor do they expect to, nor do they ever discuss anyone who does, nor does a 300 year life span have any of the MASSIVE influence you'd expect it to have on a feudal society, where most power is inherited (e.g. if the wealthy and the nobility could expect to live to 300, they would normally inherit positions of power when well over 100 years old ...and be much more risk-adverse). The spice is also supposed to be addictive, but this is purely an InformedAttribute. It has no in-story effect; the addictive nature is merely part of the HandWave of God.
14th Aug '17 9:12:39 PM hollowboy
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: since suspensor fields work inside shields (the Baron uses both), it would be reasonable to have HumungousMecha (human piloted) or flying tanks in the setting.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: since suspensor fields work inside shields (the Baron uses both), it would be reasonable to have HumungousMecha HumongousMecha (human piloted) or flying tanks in the setting.
14th Aug '17 9:10:38 PM hollowboy
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: since suspensor fields work inside shields (the Baron uses both), it would be reasonable to have HumungousMecha (human piloted) or flying tanks in the setting.
7th Aug '17 4:49:52 PM hollowboy
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Added DiffLines:

* CoolButStupid: Part of the SpaceAgeStasis of the books is the idea that the pinnacle of combat technology was one-on-one combat between lightly dressed, knife-wielding men wearing (Holtzman) DeflectorShields. These shields only allow low-speed attacks to penetrate. In-universe, this means essentially that guns don't work, so the only way to beat a well-trained knifeman was to attack them with a better-trained knifeman. The author appears to have had a failure of imagination at this point:
** An army would be unbeatable in such combats if they simply wore physical armour in addition to using DeflectorShields. Duncan Idaho wouldn't have made much headway against a phalnax of soldiers in plate armour.
** There are plenty of mundane ways to attack a man other than with high-speed projectile weapons - napalm and bulldozers would do the job without requiring a lifetime of training.
**In-universe, suspensor fields could carry heavy loads, and be controlled remotely - hunter seekers were levitating drones used as assassination weapons. Such drones equipped with nets, napalm and other low-speed weapons would be a hard counter to infantry with DeflectorShields.
7th Aug '17 12:23:25 AM hollowboy
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Added DiffLines:

* InformedAttribute: the reader is repeatedly told about Bene Gesserit training resulting in beyond-Yogi level of control over the body and emotions. They can trigger individual muscles, go into suspended animation, conquer fear, and any one of them could chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. However, the reader is also repeatedly told about Bene Gesserit trained characters having no control, and publicly displaying tension and strong emotion, such as bursting into tears, or having to literally hide their faces (e.g. Irulan hiding a smile behind her hand, when she's pulled off a GuileHero gambit, at the beginning of Dune Messiah).
6th Aug '17 11:57:58 PM hollowboy
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* IdiotPlot: The Harkonnen are willing to pay a lot of money for a crysknife, so that they may infiltrate a Fremen sietch. However, if an infiltration went well, only the handle would ever be visible. Thus all that would be needed is described (in the first book) as a "dark sheath [and] black handle with deep finger ridges".

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* IdiotPlot: The Harkonnen are were willing to pay a lot of money for a crysknife, so that they may could infiltrate a Fremen sietch. They never got one. However, if an infiltration went well, only the knife's handle would ever be visible. visible. If it went badly, the infiltrator would die, with or without a real knife. Thus all that would be needed to make the attempt is described (in the first book) as a "dark sheath [and] black handle with deep finger ridges".ridges".
* MacGuffin: The spice. It has the property of unlocking mental abilities. This is only useful to very small, select groups, such as the spacefaring guild. If only a few thousand freaks and special cases had any use for spice, when spice could be harvested by the ton, the price would be negligible. The thing in Dune that makes spice such an expensive, in-demand source of PlotCoupons is that it confers longevity. Unfortunately for the story, this property of spice is repeatedly contradicted, most clearly in that the Fremen do NOT have long lifespans, despite their massive intake of spice. A 350 year interval is described for them as: "Our generation will not see it, nor our children nor our children's children, nor the grandchildren of their children". Also, none of the human royalty are stated as living for more than a century, nor do they expect to, nor do they ever discuss anyone who does, nor does a 300 year life span have any of the MASSIVE influence you'd expect it to have on a feudal society, where most power is inherited (e.g. if the wealthy and the nobility could expect to live to 300, they would normally inherit positions of power when well over 100 years old ...and be much more risk-adverse). The spice is also supposed to be addictive, but this is purely an InformedAttribute. It has no in-story effect; the addictive nature is merely part of the HandWave of God.
6th Aug '17 11:09:29 PM hollowboy
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Added DiffLines:

* IdiotPlot: The Harkonnen are willing to pay a lot of money for a crysknife, so that they may infiltrate a Fremen sietch. However, if an infiltration went well, only the handle would ever be visible. Thus all that would be needed is described (in the first book) as a "dark sheath [and] black handle with deep finger ridges".
13th Jul '17 11:10:07 AM CurledUpWithDakka
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* WhatDoYouMeanItWasntMadeonDrugs: The Lynch film. Some of the scenes included that weren't in the book serve no purpose beyond being weird.

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* WhatDoYouMeanItWasntMadeonDrugs: WhatDoYouMeanItWasntMadeOnDrugs: The Lynch film. Some of the scenes included that weren't in the book serve no purpose beyond being weird.
26th Jun '17 9:52:33 AM ooh
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** Some would consider this as ValuesDissonance if one reads Brian Herbert's biography about his father. Frank Herbert had a very obsessive hatred of homosexuals, especially to the point of ''disowning one of his sons'' after he came out of the closet.
12th Jun '17 4:56:23 AM Raygunguy
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** Actually in the movie, the Emperor was already planning on murdering Leto. In reality, all the Spacing Navigator convinced the Emperor to do was to kill Paul as well.
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