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** Given [spoiler:Neil's suicide]], what is the film’s ultimate message about advising abuse victims? Outsiders may understandably want the victim to stand up to (or leave) the abuser— but maybe we should consider that the victim knows their situation best. Pushing too hard may have disastrous consequences.

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** Given [spoiler:Neil's [[spoiler:Neil's suicide]], what is the film’s ultimate message about advising abuse victims? Outsiders may understandably want the victim to stand up to (or leave) the abuser— but maybe we should consider that the victim knows their situation best. Pushing too hard may have disastrous consequences.
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** Given [spoiler:Neil's suicide]], what is the film’s ultimate message about advising abuse victims? Outsiders may understandably want the victim to stand up to (or leave) the abuser— but maybe we should consider that the victim knows their situation best. Pushing too hard may have disastrous consequences.
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* RonTheDeathEater: People tend to go overboard with Mr. Keating's "inappropriate" teaching methods. It's often forgotten that he only encourages them to think for themselves and learn something while also enjoying his class. He doesn't encourage them to all become artists, and stresses that becoming doctors, lawyers, bankers, and so on are all noble pursuits and absolutely necessary to sustain life. He doesn't encourage the Dead Poets Society, as the kids do that on their own without his knowledge. When the kids start outright breaking the rules, he reprimands Charlie and reminds him that "carpe diem" is not an excuse to do stupid things. He also gives Neil legitimately good advice when he's angsting about the play, telling him to talk to his father and explain his problem. Neil lies to him and in fact ignores his advice, although it’s probably because Neil is convinced that his father won’t ever listen — and the fallout proves that Neil was possibly right to fear his father’s reaction.

to:

* RonTheDeathEater: People tend to go overboard with Mr. Keating's "inappropriate" teaching methods. It's often forgotten that he only encourages them to think for themselves and learn something while also enjoying his class. He doesn't encourage them to all become artists, and stresses that becoming doctors, lawyers, bankers, and so on are all noble pursuits and absolutely necessary to sustain life. He doesn't encourage the Dead Poets Society, as the kids do that on their own without his knowledge. When the kids start outright breaking the rules, he reprimands Charlie and reminds him that "carpe diem" is not an excuse to do stupid things. things or getting yourself or others into trouble. He also gives Neil legitimately good advice when he's angsting about the play, telling him to talk to his father and explain his problem.problem, believing he'd understand if reasoned with. Neil lies to him and in fact ignores his advice, although it’s probably because Neil is convinced that his father won’t ever listen — and the fallout proves that Neil was possibly right to fear his father’s reaction.
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There's no such thing as crossing the Moral Event Horizon multiple times


** Neil's father [[spoiler:driving his son to suicide, albeit inadvertently]]. He arguably crosses it again when [[spoiler: rather than owning his responsibility for the suicide, he scapegoats Mr. Keating for it -- which gets Charlie expelled too]].

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** Neil's father crosses it either by [[spoiler:driving his son to suicide, albeit inadvertently]]. He arguably crosses it again when [[spoiler: rather than owning inadvertently]] or by [[spoiler:failing to own his responsibility for the suicide, he scapegoats suicide and scapegoating Mr. Keating for it instead -- which gets Charlie expelled too]].

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