History YMMV / BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker

15th Apr '17 7:28:32 PM maxwellsilver
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** Even for the Joker, the events of ''Return of the Joker'' were extreme. Not even Harley Quinn gets a get out free card after helping with that. [[spoiler: Although she survives anyways, [[WordOfGod thanks to her quasi-superpowered vitality after Poison Ivy made her nervous system immune to all poisons]] [[ContinuityNod back in]] ''[[ContinuityNod Batman: The Animated Series]]''.]] Even Creator/MarkHamill, who had been voicing the Joker for years at this point, felt uncomfortable with the role this time.

to:

** Even for the Joker, the events of ''Return of the Joker'' were extreme. Not even Harley Quinn gets a get out free card after helping with that. [[spoiler: Although she survives anyways, [[WordOfGod thanks to her quasi-superpowered vitality after Poison Ivy made her nervous system immune to all poisons]] [[ContinuityNod poisons back in]] ''[[ContinuityNod Batman: in ''Batman: The Animated Series]]''.Series''.]] Even Creator/MarkHamill, who had been voicing the Joker for years at this point, felt uncomfortable with the role this time.
14th Apr '17 10:02:42 AM SorPepita
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** On the other hand, [[spoiler:even before this movie came out, you had a wide share of technology and genetics from both the Batman and Superman shows; even if CADMUS and Justice League were only a twinkle in Bruce Timm's eye. Not to mention the idea of a former Robin turning into the new Joker was done in Creator/FrankMiller Comicbook/TheDarkKnightStrikesAgain, where Dick Grayson off all people tries to kill Bruce and his superheroed allies, which was one of the most criticized plot points in a whole sea of them]].

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** On the other hand, [[spoiler:even before this movie came out, you had a wide share of technology and genetics from both the Batman and Superman shows; even if CADMUS and Justice League were only a twinkle in Bruce Timm's eye. Not to mention the idea of a former Robin turning into the new Joker was done in Creator/FrankMiller Comicbook/TheDarkKnightStrikesAgain, where Dick Grayson off of all people tries to kill Bruce and his superheroed allies, which was one of the most criticized plot points in a whole sea of them]].
5th Apr '17 1:00:01 PM AreYouTyler
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* MoralEventHorizon: The movie gives the Clown Prince of Crime a rather infamous line-crossing moment: [[spoiler: he kidnapped Robin, [[ColdBloodedTorture tortured]] and {{mind rape}}d him for three weeks, mutilated him, "fixed" him up as Joker Jr., implanted a microchip doctored with the Joker's DNA into his body, and invited Batman over to see his work in detail (which included a home video of the boy's torture labeled as "Our Family Memories"). He then reveals that he's learned Batman's secret identity, ''mocks him'' for it (and for not having the balls to kill him after all this), and knifes him before he tosses "J.J." a spear gun to finish him off with.]] Also worth mentioning that this particular MEH crossing was the former page picture.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: The movie gives the Clown Prince of Crime a rather infamous line-crossing moment: [[spoiler: he kidnapped Robin, [[ColdBloodedTorture tortured]] and {{mind rape}}d him for three weeks, mutilated him, "fixed" him up as Joker Jr., implanted a microchip doctored with the Joker's DNA into his body, and invited Batman over to see his work in detail (which included a home video of the boy's torture labeled as "Our Family Memories"). He then reveals that he's learned Batman's secret identity, ''mocks him'' for it (and for not having the balls to kill him after all this), and knifes him before he tosses "J.J." a spear gun to finish him off with.]] Also worth mentioning that this particular MEH crossing was is now the former page picture.trope image for [[Monster/DCAnimation DC Animation's complete monsters]].
28th Mar '17 4:39:56 PM PeaceAndLove
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** The shooting in the nightclub is this, given the Orlando nightclub shooting.

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** The shooting shootout in the nightclub is this, given the Orlando nightclub shooting.
28th Mar '17 4:38:27 PM PeaceAndLove
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* HarsherInHindsight: [[spoiler: What Tim goes through here in the flashback, given that the backstory for ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' has Jason Todd go through the same thing and end up assisting the Scarecrow in, what is for all intents and purposes, a terrorist attack on Gotham.]]

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* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
** The shooting in the nightclub is this, given the Orlando nightclub shooting.
**
[[spoiler: What Tim goes through here in the flashback, given that the backstory for ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' has Jason Todd go through the same thing and end up assisting the Scarecrow in, what is for all intents and purposes, a terrorist attack on Gotham.]]
4th Mar '17 9:35:18 PM Dere
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Added DiffLines:

*** There's also the fact that such a plot could be considered assassination of Tim Drake's character, and would have reduced this film's Joker to an imitator as opposed to the real deal.
4th Mar '17 9:21:32 PM Dere
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* BrokenBase: There is a contingent of fans who argue that the ''{{Bowdlerized}}'' edit is, if not a better film, a far darker and more effective one. Most of this sentiment draws from the fact that editing down to a PG rating meant that the creators had to be far more tactful with what violence ''was'' shown, making use of the DiscretionShot in a way that actually made it worse. On the other hand, the censored version had some shoddy editing with continuity errors, the dialogue suffers as a result of the NeverSayDie trope, Bonk's death was more ambiguous and much less shocking, the scene of the Joker stabbing Batman was made much less effective by the replacing said stabbing with a punch, and Tim being only ''indirectly'' responsible for [[spoiler:the Joker's death]] makes it seem like [[{{Wangst}} he has been suffering from an ''irrational'' guilt complex his entire life...]]

to:

* BrokenBase: There is a contingent of fans who argue that the ''{{Bowdlerized}}'' edit is, if not a better film, a far darker and more effective one. Most of this sentiment draws from the fact that editing down to a PG rating meant that the creators had to be far more tactful with what violence ''was'' shown, making use of the DiscretionShot in a way that actually made it worse. On the other hand, the censored version had some shoddy editing with continuity errors, the dialogue suffers as a result of the NeverSayDie trope, Bonk's death was more ambiguous and much less shocking, the scene of the Joker stabbing Batman was made much less effective by the replacing of said stabbing with a punch, ''punch'', and Tim being only ''indirectly'' responsible for [[spoiler:the Joker's death]] makes it seem like [[{{Wangst}} he has been suffering from an ''irrational'' guilt complex his entire life...]]
4th Mar '17 9:20:53 PM Dere
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* BrokenBase: There is a contingent of fans who argue that the ''{{Bowdlerized}}'' edit is, if not a better film, a far darker and more effective one. Most of this sentiment draws from the fact that editing down to a PG rating meant that the creators had to be far more tactful with what violence ''was'' shown, making use of the DiscretionShot in a way that actually made it worse. Additionally, Tim being only ''indirectly'' responsible for [[spoiler:the Joker's death]] makes it even more of a TearJerker now that the man has clearly been suffering from an ''irrational'' guilt complex his entire life...

to:

* BrokenBase: There is a contingent of fans who argue that the ''{{Bowdlerized}}'' edit is, if not a better film, a far darker and more effective one. Most of this sentiment draws from the fact that editing down to a PG rating meant that the creators had to be far more tactful with what violence ''was'' shown, making use of the DiscretionShot in a way that actually made it worse. Additionally, On the other hand, the censored version had some shoddy editing with continuity errors, the dialogue suffers as a result of the NeverSayDie trope, Bonk's death was more ambiguous and much less shocking, the scene of the Joker stabbing Batman was made much less effective by the replacing said stabbing with a punch, and Tim being only ''indirectly'' responsible for [[spoiler:the Joker's death]] makes it even more of a TearJerker now that the man seem like [[{{Wangst}} he has clearly been suffering from an ''irrational'' guilt complex his entire life...]]
30th Jan '17 10:03:21 PM yesatron
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Added DiffLines:

** Similarly, Kristopher Carter's score is ''incredible'', blending the metal/techno-tinged world of ''Beyond'' effortlessly with an orchestra for a greater emotional scope.
* BrokenBase: There is a contingent of fans who argue that the ''{{Bowdlerized}}'' edit is, if not a better film, a far darker and more effective one. Most of this sentiment draws from the fact that editing down to a PG rating meant that the creators had to be far more tactful with what violence ''was'' shown, making use of the DiscretionShot in a way that actually made it worse. Additionally, Tim being only ''indirectly'' responsible for [[spoiler:the Joker's death]] makes it even more of a TearJerker now that the man has clearly been suffering from an ''irrational'' guilt complex his entire life...
19th Jul '16 12:39:41 AM drac0blade
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** Even for the Joker, the events of ''Return of the Joker'' were extreme. He was already dangerous and psychopathic, but the very nature of how he did it turned him into. Not even Harley Quinn gets a get out free card after helping with that. [[spoiler: Although she survives anyways, [[WordOfGod thanks to her quasi-superpowered vitality after Poison Ivy made her nervous system immune to all poisons]] [[ContinuityNod back in]] ''[[ContinuityNod Batman: The Animated Series]]''.]] Even Creator/MarkHamill, who had been voicing the Joker for years at this point, felt uncomfortable with the role this time.

to:

** Even for the Joker, the events of ''Return of the Joker'' were extreme. He was already dangerous and psychopathic, but the very nature of how he did it turned him into. Not even Harley Quinn gets a get out free card after helping with that. [[spoiler: Although she survives anyways, [[WordOfGod thanks to her quasi-superpowered vitality after Poison Ivy made her nervous system immune to all poisons]] [[ContinuityNod back in]] ''[[ContinuityNod Batman: The Animated Series]]''.]] Even Creator/MarkHamill, who had been voicing the Joker for years at this point, felt uncomfortable with the role this time.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker