History YMMV / Batman

8th Jun '16 5:33:43 PM TheMisterSonic
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** The entire franchise is insanely prolific--besides the staggering amount of comic series he's starred in, there's also 22 oneshot comics, two literary books, two live action tv series, 30 movie serials, 8 live action movies (with a 9th one on the way) a cd album, 4 radio shows, 3 manga adaptations, 2 musicals, 3 pinball games, 44 video games (and 11 more with him in supporting or cameo roles), 2 web series, and he has starred in 11 animated series (7 of which give him top billing) and 17 animated movies (12 of which likewise giving him top billing) and enough misc. tie in toys and merchandise to fill the Batcave! All this, and the series has been going strong for [[LongRunner 75 years]], and is showing no signs of stopping. To say the least, Holy [[ArchiveBinge Archive Binging]], Batman!

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** The entire franchise is insanely prolific--besides the staggering amount of comic series he's starred in, there's also 22 oneshot comics, two literary books, two live action tv series, 30 movie serials, 8 live action movies (with a 9th one on the way) a cd album, 4 radio shows, 3 manga adaptations, 2 musicals, 3 pinball games, 44 video games (and 11 more with him in supporting or cameo roles), 2 web series, and he has starred in 11 animated series (7 of which give him top billing) and 17 animated movies (12 of which likewise giving him top billing) and enough misc. tie in toys and merchandise to fill the Batcave! All this, and the series has been going strong for [[LongRunner 75 years]], and is showing no signs of stopping. To say the least, Holy [[ArchiveBinge Archive Binging]], Batman!Binging]]!
29th May '16 9:34:56 AM XSpectreGreyX
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** Mr. Freeze's changed origin, from a man desperately trying to save his terminally ill wife to... a guy who has a sick obession with a frozen woman he doesn't know. Because... edgy?
27th May '16 6:48:01 PM DreamerCynist2
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** He actually is still a BaseBreaker; fans either love him or wish there was a second phone-in vote to kill him off again. This isn't helped by his very inconsistent portrayals; some writers portray him as a very angry young man with a good reason to be furious at Bruce and who desperately wants to prove that he's a better hero than him, but has a seriously skewed moral compass and sense of what heroism actually is, while others portray him as a one-dimensional modern-day NinetiesAntiHero with a side dose of {{Wangst}}.

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** He actually is still a BaseBreaker; fans either love him or wish there was a second phone-in vote to kill him off again. This isn't helped by his very inconsistent portrayals; some writers portray him as a very angry young man with a good reason to be furious at Bruce and who desperately wants to prove that he's a better hero than him, but has a seriously skewed moral compass and sense of what heroism actually is, while others portray him as a one-dimensional modern-day NinetiesAntiHero with a side dose of {{Wangst}}. This has gotten worse ever since the New52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot but finds the execution rushed and forced more than anything]].
23rd May '16 6:03:19 PM Anddrix
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** SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker. Though he started off dark and creepy, he spent most of the '40s, '50s, and '60s as a [[VillainousHarlequin mostly harmless lawbreaking jester.]] Then, after Batman was remade into the dark and brooding hero he was originally, the Joker returns to his [[MonsterClown homicidal maniac]] origins; then we get to "The Killing Joke," in which he shoots Barbara Gordon (formerly Batgirl) through the spine, and then kidnaps and tortures Commissioner Gordon more or less for the hell of it. And then there was "Death in the Family" and countless other stories in which the Joker gets crazier as time goes on. Even in the movies, he has changed from one appearance to the next. TheMovie of the 1966 series portrayed him as the madman crook. Creator/JackNicholson, famous creepy maniac, portrayed him as a former gangster turned creepy maniac making the best of his deformities by incorporating them into a costume. ''Film/TheDarkKnight'''s Creator/HeathLedger appeared to be a suicidal nihilist out for nothing more thought out than causing chaos.

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** SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker.ComicBook/TheJoker. Though he started off dark and creepy, he spent most of the '40s, '50s, and '60s as a [[VillainousHarlequin mostly harmless lawbreaking jester.]] Then, after Batman was remade into the dark and brooding hero he was originally, the Joker returns to his [[MonsterClown homicidal maniac]] origins; then we get to "The Killing Joke," in which he shoots Barbara Gordon (formerly Batgirl) through the spine, and then kidnaps and tortures Commissioner Gordon more or less for the hell of it. And then there was "Death in the Family" and countless other stories in which the Joker gets crazier as time goes on. Even in the movies, he has changed from one appearance to the next. TheMovie of the 1966 series portrayed him as the madman crook. Creator/JackNicholson, famous creepy maniac, portrayed him as a former gangster turned creepy maniac making the best of his deformities by incorporating them into a costume. ''Film/TheDarkKnight'''s Creator/HeathLedger appeared to be a suicidal nihilist out for nothing more thought out than causing chaos.



** Comicbook/HarleyQuinn. [[NewerThanTheyThink If you can believe it,]] she's only been an official part of the DC Universe since 1999, but she has arguably the biggest fan following of ''any'' Bat-mythos character other than Batman or Comicbook/TheJoker (and possibly Comicbook/{{Catwoman}}). Not bad for a character who started out as the [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries in a TV show]].

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** Comicbook/HarleyQuinn. [[NewerThanTheyThink If you can believe it,]] she's only been an official part of the DC Universe since 1999, but she has arguably the biggest fan following of ''any'' Bat-mythos character other than Batman or Comicbook/TheJoker (and possibly Comicbook/{{Catwoman}}). Not bad for a character who started out as the [[DistaffCounterpart female counterpart]] of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries in a TV show]].



** There's also the recurring rumor that SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker raped Barbara Gordon in ComicBook/TheKillingJoke, but Creator/AlanMoore [[WordOfGod has stated]] that he didn't. In [[ComicBook/{{Joker}} his self-titled graphic novel]], however...

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** There's also the recurring rumor that SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker raped Barbara Gordon in ComicBook/TheKillingJoke, but Creator/AlanMoore [[WordOfGod has stated]] that he didn't. In [[ComicBook/{{Joker}} his self-titled graphic novel]], however...



* StrawmanHasAPoint: Jason Todd, the second Robin. After having been killed by the [[{{SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker}} Joker]], he [[DeathIsCheap came back]] and went on a [[KnightTemplar violent killing spree against criminals]]; convinced it is the only way to stop crime for good. In the climax, he defends his stance to Batman by pointing out that in not killing the Joker, Batman essentially guarantees the Joker will claim more victims. Batman replies he will not kill the Joker because [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim it would be too easy the next time.]] While Jason is a typical strawman of heroes willing to kill by being a total psychopath, his comments about the Joker were sound, even going as far as pointing out the slippery-slope fallacy of Batman's counterargument.

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* StrawmanHasAPoint: Jason Todd, the second Robin. After having been killed by the [[{{SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker}} [[{{ComicBook/TheJoker}} Joker]], he [[DeathIsCheap came back]] and went on a [[KnightTemplar violent killing spree against criminals]]; convinced it is the only way to stop crime for good. In the climax, he defends his stance to Batman by pointing out that in not killing the Joker, Batman essentially guarantees the Joker will claim more victims. Batman replies he will not kill the Joker because [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim it would be too easy the next time.]] While Jason is a typical strawman of heroes willing to kill by being a total psychopath, his comments about the Joker were sound, even going as far as pointing out the slippery-slope fallacy of Batman's counterargument.



* MoralEventHorizon: While nowhere near as monstrous as many of his later incarnations, SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker still gets his moment when he traps Batman and Robin in an industrial smokestack and turns it into a makeshift GasChamber -- the darkest (and perhaps one of the ''best'') of all the {{Death Trap}}s the Dynamic Duo has ever faced. This being the Adam West Batman, though, this gets PlayedForLaughs to a degree, with the Dynamic Duo expecting water in the Joker's challenge to them and the Joker having to explain to Robin that [[ExactWords the material was something you can drown in]]--[[FalseReassurance who said anything about water, anyway?]]

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* MoralEventHorizon: While nowhere near as monstrous as many of his later incarnations, SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker still gets his moment when he traps Batman and Robin in an industrial smokestack and turns it into a makeshift GasChamber -- the darkest (and perhaps one of the ''best'') of all the {{Death Trap}}s the Dynamic Duo has ever faced. This being the Adam West Batman, though, this gets PlayedForLaughs to a degree, with the Dynamic Duo expecting water in the Joker's challenge to them and the Joker having to explain to Robin that [[ExactWords the material was something you can drown in]]--[[FalseReassurance who said anything about water, anyway?]]



* CompleteMonster: Though ComicBook/TheJoker (BigBad Jack Napier) may not have been quite as gritty in his approach, the sheer scope of his reign of terror puts him on more or less the same level as his successor in ''Film/TheDarkKnight''. Even before his transformation, Jack Napier was outright horrible: he was the one who murdered Bruce Wayne's parents, and if his accomplice hadn't yelled at Jack to get out of there, [[WouldHurtAChild the psycho would have killed young Bruce as well]]. As SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, he intends to poison all the Gothamites with Smylex Gas [[ForTheEvulz for no other reason]] than his [[ItAmusedMe own amusement]]; has three mob bosses killed (with him even joking about their deaths, at least one of which he involved himself in by [[ElectricJoybuzzer electrocuting a mob boss with enough voltage to turn him into a charred skeleton]] after claiming that shaking his hand will be the end of it if he refuses to agree with the Joker). He also disfigured and killed Alicia Hunt under the guise of suicide to free himself for Vicki Vale ("You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs."); gasses an art gallery full of people to death just to have some "alone time" with Vicki Vale; and puts the components of Smylex into different cosmetics to cause random city-wide deaths just to make the people panic. He even cold-bloodedly guns down his best and only friend, Bob the Goon, just to [[YouHaveFailedMe vent his anger]] over Batman ruining the above attempt to gas everyone at the parade.

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* CompleteMonster: Though ComicBook/TheJoker (BigBad Jack Napier) may not have been quite as gritty in his approach, the sheer scope of his reign of terror puts him on more or less the same level as his successor in ''Film/TheDarkKnight''. Even before his transformation, Jack Napier was outright horrible: he was the one who murdered Bruce Wayne's parents, and if his accomplice hadn't yelled at Jack to get out of there, [[WouldHurtAChild the psycho would have killed young Bruce as well]]. As SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, ComicBook/TheJoker, he intends to poison all the Gothamites with Smylex Gas [[ForTheEvulz for no other reason]] than his [[ItAmusedMe own amusement]]; has three mob bosses killed (with him even joking about their deaths, at least one of which he involved himself in by [[ElectricJoybuzzer electrocuting a mob boss with enough voltage to turn him into a charred skeleton]] after claiming that shaking his hand will be the end of it if he refuses to agree with the Joker). He also disfigured and killed Alicia Hunt under the guise of suicide to free himself for Vicki Vale ("You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs."); gasses an art gallery full of people to death just to have some "alone time" with Vicki Vale; and puts the components of Smylex into different cosmetics to cause random city-wide deaths just to make the people panic. He even cold-bloodedly guns down his best and only friend, Bob the Goon, just to [[YouHaveFailedMe vent his anger]] over Batman ruining the above attempt to gas everyone at the parade.



* HarsherInHindsight: Batman's entire origin story becomes significantly harsher after the events of the Aurora theater shooting. It's even worse in this adaptation because of the fact that SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker was responsible for creating Batman in the Burton/Schmaucher film continuity, since the madman who shot up the Aurora theater based his actions on SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Batman's entire origin story becomes significantly harsher after the events of the Aurora theater shooting. It's even worse in this adaptation because of the fact that SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker was responsible for creating Batman in the Burton/Schmaucher film continuity, since the madman who shot up the Aurora theater based his actions on SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker.ComicBook/TheJoker.



* MoralEventHorizon: As with his [[Film/TheDarkKnight just-as-famous-if-not-moreso counterpart]], it's not a question of whether SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker crosses it, but when. Perhaps the most likely crossing point is [[spoiler:killing Thomas and Martha Wayne when he was younger]]. As for the first crossing point to be shown? Tougher to pinpoint; there's killing off countless Gothamites with his Smilex gas, or [[spoiler: killing EnsembleDarkHorse Bob]] if you liked him.

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* MoralEventHorizon: As with his [[Film/TheDarkKnight just-as-famous-if-not-moreso counterpart]], it's not a question of whether SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker crosses it, but when. Perhaps the most likely crossing point is [[spoiler:killing Thomas and Martha Wayne when he was younger]]. As for the first crossing point to be shown? Tougher to pinpoint; there's killing off countless Gothamites with his Smilex gas, or [[spoiler: killing EnsembleDarkHorse Bob]] if you liked him.
19th May '16 9:46:29 PM Ramona122003
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* InternetBackdraft: The inevitable recation to ''Detective Comics #23.2'' where the New 52-Harley massacred hundreds of children by using bombs disguised as handheld gaming consoles. Fans hate this issue and consider Harley totally OutOfCharacter.
** It has become a meme: "remember that time when Harley killed hundreds of children?".

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* InternetBackdraft: The inevitable recation to ''Detective Comics #23.2'' where the New 52-Harley massacred hundreds of children by using bombs disguised as handheld gaming consoles. Fans hate this issue and consider Harley totally OutOfCharacter.
**
OutOfCharacter. It has become a meme: "remember that time when Harley killed hundreds of children?".



* JerkassWoobie: Jason Todd, post-resurrection. Surely, he did a lot of awful things (as [[KickTheDog trying to kill Dick and Tim]]), but the guy is so screwed in the inside. His family is dead, his biological mother watched when was being tortured by the Joker and did ''nothing'' to stop it (in fact, [[EvilMatriarch she was helping the Joker]]), and was brought back to life with amnesia, suffered a lot more while trying to recover his identity and his life (as we can see on ''Red Hood: The Lost Days''), and to this day, his life hasn't gotten any better.

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* JerkassWoobie: JerkassWoobie:
**
Jason Todd, post-resurrection. Surely, he did a lot of awful things (as [[KickTheDog trying to kill Dick and Tim]]), but the guy is so screwed in the inside. His family is dead, his biological mother watched when was being tortured by the Joker and did ''nothing'' to stop it (in fact, [[EvilMatriarch she was helping the Joker]]), and was brought back to life with amnesia, suffered a lot more while trying to recover his identity and his life (as we can see on ''Red Hood: The Lost Days''), and to this day, his life hasn't gotten any better.



* {{Jerk S|ue}}tu: Damian, though it's ''very'' arguable. It is hard to tell if it's being played straight or not.
19th May '16 9:43:10 PM Ramona122003
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* {{Hypocrite}}: For a character so tied to the DoesNotLikeGuns trope to name the BatmanGrabsAGun trope, it's rather odd that every single one of his vehicles for the past few decades has mounted [[MoreDakka multiple machine guns]].
19th May '16 9:35:29 PM Ramona122003
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** Damian Wayne was this for a while. At first fans couldn't stand his snide attitude, the massive amounts of lenience that he seemed to get for things that some fans found unforgivable[[note]]beating up Tim Drake, and beheading a D-List villain to name a few[[/note]] but Grant Morrison kept using him in his stories. When he eventually became the Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman, many fans complained, but he mostly won naysayers over with him as the "dark, snarky" Robin that Jason Todd failed to be during his tenure (helped greatly by a massive amount of CharacterDevelopment). Now, with [[spoiler:his long-delayed death finally occurring]], more fans are begging for him back than cheering with joy.
** Jason Todd as well, and for many of the same reasons. His characterisation since coming back from the dead changes depending on the writer, which makes it seem like DC is just doing anything and seeing what works. The attempt at darkening him has him do things that no other Bat-character could get away with, such as casually killing (emphasis on the casual) and using guns (Peter Tomasi did however write him as going for leg shots in front of Batman), while having the negative personality aspects of Damian, but none of the charm, nor the excuse of being a child.



*** Part of the reason for this makes Barbara Gordon a Creator's pet. Barbara is a popular character, as HandicappedBadass Oracle. Crippled by SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker in ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'' when she was no longer Batgirl, there was [[StuffedIntoTheFridge backlash at being so cruelly sidelined]]. She was then given a second life as a hacker and proved to be both incredibly useful but an inspiration to people in real life. Returning her to being Batgirl in the Comicbook/{{New 52}} at the expense of her popular successors of the Batgirl mantle, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown sours many fans of her. It's the same situation as Barry Allen, since she is now back and those who took up her legacy as Batgirl have been swept under the rug.



** The "fan-favourite" line is considered possible trolling on DC's behalf, plus Snyder was adamant Harper was ''never'' intended to be Robin, which made the overzealous hand-wringing over the possibility an eventual case of FanDumb. Harper has since adopted the role of Bluebird - although the Nightwing-esque costume she wears was also considered possible trolling at first given the uncertain fate of Dick Grayson post-''ComicBook/ForeverEvil'' -- and even slots comfortably into her own gimmick as a non-lethal weaponry user in the Bat-Family.
** Similar to the example regarding Cass and Steph, Dick Grayson. Easily the most popular character to have been Robin, [[BreakoutCharacter Dick is a HUGE fan-favourite]], who Dan [=DiDio=] seems to hate with a passion, to the point where he wanted to kill him off in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis''. Luckily, Geoff Johns stepped in with Superboy as his SacrificialLamb. Recent trends, however, seem to indicate that the DC editorial is interested in pushing Dick as a "A-list" superhero.
** Hush. However, after the "Heart of Hush" storyline, reactions have been turning to more positive.
* DracoInLeatherPants: Many of Batman's Rogues Gallery gets this, having sympathetic backstories or motivations. For example, Poison Ivy's fans often speak of her as a misguided and misunderstood force for good who only kills people because she has no other way of achieving justice for plant life--ignoring her sadism and that her stated goal in many works is to kill every human on the planet. Likewise, Mister Freeze's brutal and revenge minded behaviors are often downplayed as "he just wants to be with his wife." Some even go as far as to claim they wouldn't be villains in the first place if that [[RonTheDeathEater Jerkass Batman would just give them a chance.]]

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** The "fan-favourite" line is considered possible trolling on DC's behalf, plus Snyder was adamant Harper was ''never'' intended to be Robin, which made the overzealous hand-wringing over the possibility an eventual case of FanDumb. Harper has since adopted the role of Bluebird - although the Nightwing-esque costume she wears was also considered possible trolling at first given the uncertain fate of Dick Grayson post-''ComicBook/ForeverEvil'' -- and even slots comfortably into her own gimmick as a non-lethal weaponry user in the Bat-Family.
** Similar to the example regarding Cass and Steph, Dick Grayson. Easily the most popular character to have been Robin, [[BreakoutCharacter Dick is a HUGE fan-favourite]], who Dan [=DiDio=] seems to hate with a passion, to the point where he wanted to kill him off in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis''. Luckily, Geoff Johns stepped in with Superboy as his SacrificialLamb. Recent trends, however, seem to indicate that the DC editorial is interested in pushing Dick as a "A-list" superhero.
**
%%** Hush. However, after the "Heart of Hush" storyline, reactions have been turning to more positive.
* DracoInLeatherPants: DracoInLeatherPants:
**
Many of Batman's Rogues Gallery gets this, having sympathetic backstories or motivations. For example, Poison Ivy's fans often speak of her as a misguided and misunderstood force for good who only kills people because she has no other way of achieving justice for plant life--ignoring her sadism and that her stated goal in many works is to kill every human on the planet. Likewise, Mister Freeze's brutal and revenge minded behaviors are often downplayed as "he just wants to be with his wife." Some even go as far as to claim they wouldn't be villains in the first place if that [[RonTheDeathEater Jerkass Batman would just give them a chance.]]
16th May '16 11:48:11 AM nightkiller
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** Batgirl was only introduced when Eartha Kitt was cast as Catwoman, [[ExecutiveMeddling to avoid implying an interracial relationship with Batman]].
2nd May '16 9:07:47 AM 10-13-2
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* MisaimedFandom: In an extremely rare case where a ''henchman'' received one, we have Bob the Goon, depicted here almost as Jack Napier's/The Joker's HeterosexualLifePartner and a sort of proto-Harley Quinn. Fans of the movie will often mention how much they love Bob, which is pretty strange as he doesn't do much that's noteworthy and in fact (except for Alicia) is the ''least'' dangerous member of the Joker's gang. It must be the look, as Bob ''does'' look like he could be [[CoolLoser the world's hippest slacker]]. Even portrayer Tracey Walter himself became enamored with the character, remarking in an interview that Bob's enthusiasm really shines through: "He admired what the Joker stood for." As if the Joker were ever anything more than a delusional psychopath, not to mention that [[spoiler: Bob is ''[[BadBoss executed]]'' because (or in spite of) his loyalty.]]
2nd May '16 8:58:12 AM 10-13-2
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* MisaimedFandom: What boy watching this show ''didn't'' want to be Batman when he grew up, taking this incarnation of the Caped Crusader [[DoesNotUnderstandSarcasm absolutely seriously]]?


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** Probably the worst of the villains - and, ironically enough, the most human as well - was Nora Clavicle, who plotted to use wind-up toy mice to blow up all of Gotham City as part of an insurance scam. Yes, a city with more than half a million people, as mentioned in another episode. That number rivals any large nation's casualties in most wars.
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