History YMMV / AvengersVsX-Men

17th Jun '14 9:52:13 AM StFan
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17th Jun '14 9:51:47 AM StFan
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* AcceptableProfessionalTargets: The villain in ''Consequences''? [[spoiler:The privatized prison system]].
* AscendedMeme: Cyclops predicts the rise of the "Cyclops was right" meme in-verse.
* {{Asspull}}: The "Anti-Telpathy" nano-machines Tony Stark creates and injects into all of the Avengers ''specifically'' so Emma Frost can't end the event in issue 2.
* AuthorsSavingThrow: By and large, this storyline was one for numerous critically-panned creative decisions made under JoeQuesada's tenure as Editor-in-Chief. Among the elements thrown out were [[spoiler:Wakanda as a MarySuetopia, the [[TokenRomance Storm/Black Panther relationship]], making ScarletWitch crazy, and, at the very end, [[ComicBook/HouseOfM the Decimation of mutants]]]]. While [=AvX=] was (likely intentionally) polarizing, those stories were all reviled to a much greater degree.
** Dan Slott (who has a flair for these) supplies a humorous one in the final issue of ''Vs.'' for a couple of the [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu more ridiculous victories]] in prior issues. [[spoiler:Turns out Squirrel Girl and Pixie, completely ignorant of the conflict, were playing an RPG with the Puppet Master's voodoo dolls]]. It's somewhat unclear whether this was intended to be canon, but more than a few fans accept it.
* BrokenBase: This event ''should'' have been titled "Avengers Fans vs. X-Men Fans".
** Either you think the Avengers were assholes who came to San Francisco in bad faith ready to kidnap a kid for dubious reasons with no intentions of negotiating or you think that they were justified because the Phoenix is a giant threat, has been a threat in the past and they have to do anything necessary to stop it from potentially destroying everything.
** Either you think that the portrayal of the Phoenix as a destructive entity is fine and in line with the most well known Phoenix story (the Dark Phoenix Saga) or you feel like it's a flimsy premise that ignores 15-20 years of Rachel Summers' existence and her bonding with and complete control of the Phoenix Force (although this is YMMV, as Rachel largely controlled the Phoenix by never trying to access its full power, and even she did slip sometimes).
** Either you think that the actions of the Phoenix Five are in line with the corrupting influence of Phoenix Force or that things are being wildly exaggerated for dramatic effect with the main group being written incredibly out of character.
** Either you take it as given that the Phoenix Five made the world a utopia, or you take it as a given that they did so by quashing free will across the planet.
** Either you think this story is the natural climax/ending of Cyclops' character arc since Messiah Complex or you feel that his {{Jerkass}} qualities have been taken over the top to justify the actions of the Avengers.
*** If not, you either consider Cyclops a [[VillainProtagonist villain]] who's finally getting what he deserves, or you think he's basically a victim to the Avengers who's been pushed to the very end.
** Either you think that Captain America was right in presume over Scott's mental condition, and his lack of open remorse is evident of his fall from grace, or you think he's a detached political sock puppet incapable of recognizing how Scott had been carrying on his shoulders a situation for years so impossible that if one, and only one of his friends dies in an attempt to stave off genocide, (of the usually hate induced variety), rather than say, a bus full of children, then it was in fact a very good day,and think Cap's reaction to his imprisonment are, at best, embarrassing.
*** Just as embarrassing is the fact that Cyclops, in SmugSnake mode, was clearly goading Captain America into taking a swing at him.
** Everything in the story and even the very existence of the story itself really is grounds for heated arguments. Which is probably the point, really, as the Avengers and X-Men have wildly different ideologies and themes that are often debated even when the characters themselves ''aren't'' punching each other.
* ConflictBall: This ball gets volleyed back and forth so much throughout the event that this might as well have been the Olympics. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment Specific examples aside]], many of the people involved have worked with each other and are friends, and much of the event could have been averted if some of them sat down and talked like adults.
* DesignatedHero:
** The Avengers and anyone siding with them. To X-Men fans, they've spent the entire story acting like giant antagonistic jackasses and are essentially responsible for most of the bad things that happen (Mainly by showing up, telling Cyclops they're taking the potential savior of his near extinct race and that's that; and again when Iron Man's "brilliant plan" causes the Phoenix Force to be split and create the Phoenix Five). Issue 11 pretty much pushes it over the top despite the fact the Avengers are, nominally, the heroes of the story. Acknowledged in the last issue, where CaptainAmerica realizes that the Avengers have been pretty crappy heroes when it comes to mutant affairs.
** Wolverine specifically fell under this early on in the story, as his solution to dealing with the Phoenix was ''to outright kill the teenage girl who was the intended host before the Phoenix arrived'', which went much farther than the Avengers merely wanting to take Hope off-world in the event that she was unable to control the Phoenix. However, he soon backed down from this line of thinking when he realised he couldn't go through with killing a child.
*** In ''Consequences'', Scott [[WhatTheHellHero really lets Logan have it]] over this.
* DesignatedVillain: Cyclops' X-Men, and later the Phoenix Five. At least, until they become corrupted by the Phoenix Force and start acting more like actual villains. Even then, Cyclops could still be a designated villain, as he only gets consumed by the Dark Phoenix after much poking and prodding by the Avengers and the X-Men. Until that point he kinda kept his sanity, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity at least compared to his teammates]].
* MagnificentBastard: Cyclops is an {{Anti Hero}}ic example, particularly in ''Consequences'' where he displays that he knows how to play him some ''serious'' politics.
* MemeticMutation: [[http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/55309/2631598-2562506_cykewasright.jpg Cyclops]] [[http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mck85mqkGJ1rv08b8o1_500.png was]] [[http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men66cUjQi1rk7w2qo1_500.jpg right.]]"
* MoralDissonance: In he end, the Phoenix Five are punished, with Cyclops being regarded as a war criminal. Never mind the fact that they were mind controlled by the Phoenix and shouldn't be held responsible, but many of the people condemning them for their actions have ''also'' committed crimes while not themselves, but also Cap's behavior during the whole debacle is very similar to the way Tony Stark acted during Civil War, which Cap was violently against. Add in the fact that the whole mess and every time it escalated was directly the Avengers fault, making Cap, the Avengers, and the X-Men that sided with the Avengers come off as very hypocritical.
** This one really is YMMV, since "mind controlled by the Phoenix!" has never excused anyone ever from what they've done. Jean Grey has born responsibility for the events of the Dark Phoenix saga for decades, and a part of what happens in Inferno is dedicated to her accepting that whether in the flesh or not, she can't duck out of it by saying "it was the Phoenix, not me!" And unlike the Jean of the Dark Phoenix Saga, Scott knew full well what the Phoenix was capable of doing. He'd seen it do terrible things to the women he loved time and time again, but he still turned to its power when given the chance, and did not relinquish said power when he could have. The other X-Men may not have known better, but Scott Summers of all people should have known better than to ever trust the force which had thrice deprived him of his wife.
** Magneto even calls Scott out on this later on in the aftermath when they've escaped their various prisons and are trying to start over. Cyclops argues with Emma that what he did to her when he stole the Phoenix power from her was not him, which by extension means that none of them should be held accountable for their actions because they were possessed. Magneto proceeds to chew Scott out over this in spectacular fashion - using his own life as a reference, Magneto reminds Scott that the Master of Magnetism himself had done many terrible things in his life and he'd always shrugged it off as not truly being but merely "madness" but ultimately Magneto himself had to learn to accept the fact that it was him and not some monster, and then chastises Scott for trying to absolve himself of his benevolent dictatorship stunt by blaming it all on the Phoenix.
* MoralEventHorizon:
** [[spoiler:Emma]] has two possible moments thus far. In the ''ComicBook/AvengersAcademy'' tie-in, [[spoiler:she scraps Juston Seyfert's [[RobotBuddy pet Sentinel]], simply for being a Sentinel]], while in issue 9 of the main series, she [[spoiler:telepathically kills a man who had killed a mutant child thirty years ago in a hit and run, and kept it a secret]].
** [[spoiler:The Avengers invade the sovereign nation of Utopia, take (almost) the entire mutant species prisoner and hold them in concentration camps where their powers are disabled]]
** [[spoiler:Namor's assault on Wakanda, which likely killed countless civilians.]]
** The prison where Scott is being held in ''Consequences'' crosses when [[spoiler:they allow Scott's new friend, a newly-activated mutant, to be lynched by the other inmates]]. This causes Scott to [[spoiler:accept Magneto's offer to break him out]].
* {{Narm}}: In issue 11, Iceman tells Xavier that he considers Scott his brother, but he can't let him carry on down the path he's headed anymore. Fair enough, but why is it narm? Havok, ''the actual younger brother of Cyclops'', is in the background as Iceman says this.
** After an entire summer event concerning superhero on superhero violence, we finally get a scene of Captain America humbly coming to a power he cannot control, admits they have been unfairly estranged for many years, and begs it for help against the coming threat. By which he means The Hulk, rather than the godlike being whose granddaughter he kidnapped. It's hard for a reader to forget that had he done that in issue 1, the whole thing would have been avoided.
** "No more Phoenix." Aside from how stupid and awkward it sounds, it being the second play on "no more mutants" within the same series basically means it came off as trying too hard.
** The shot of Cyclops crying with tears streaming down from out of his visor [[spoiler:after he kills Xavier and screams that it's really all Captain America's fault, just before he goes Dark Phoenix. And then of course, the shot of him standing there as the Dark Phoenix. And then a moment during the final fight when he thinks back on how all he wanted to do was make the world a better place as images of the past flash through his mind, briefly begs to be killed, and then goes back to being crazy as rips through the Avengers and tears apart the Utopia that he worked so hard to build. And then when he's finally got the Phoenix excised from him, the shot of him looking sad about "the blood on his hands" is just so full of narm it almost isn't funny.]]
* OlderThanTheyThink: Cyclops became a host of the Phoenix Force in the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover.
* OutOfCharacter: Much like ''Civil War'' and other hero vs. hero events that have been Marvel staples recently this was one of the big criticisms of the story as it required characters on both sides to behave out of character to push the damn story forward.
* SignatureScene: The choking scene in issue #11 was framed as being the most brutal moment of the event up to that point with a mostly silent double paged spread and images of Emma screaming horrifically and then laying still with blood coming out of her mouth.
* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: On an issue-to-issue basis this event was received much better than [[Comicbook/FearItself its immediate predecessor]], and even those who didn't like it were at least interested in where it was going.
* TheyJustDidntCare: Like ''Civil War'' and ''Fear Itself'' before it, due to its massive IdiotPlot.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Interested in seeing what this utopia the Phoenix Five created is like? Too bad! The reader is merely told that they P5 made the world a perfect place. Actually seeing any of that, examining the morality of a benign dictatorship, seeing what the ordinary person thinks about the benevolent cosmic-powered mutants who took over the world, etc., would get in the way of more punching.
* WTHCostumingDepartment:
** Most of the Phoenix Five's costumes look just fine - except for Cyclops, who appears to be wearing a red thong.
** Namor is wearing a top that is essentially sleeves and shoulder pads but nothing underneath, until it gets to his extra tight pants. On the other hand, it's still an improvement over a speedo.
** Emma Frost probably ''would'' go here, except... it's [[MsFanservice Emma]].
* UnfortunateImplications:
** Thor smashes Emma Frost in her diamond mode into pieces with his hammer, for questioning his masculinity.
*** The whole battle is fraught with weird, semi-Freudian undertones. Heck, the above mentioned part of the battle has Thor [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything shattering Emma in the middle from the crotch up with his hammer]]!
** Black Panther annuls his marriage after a fight with his wife.
*** The same fight where Storm declares that she no longer wants to be married to Panther and throws down her wedding ring. Also worth noting is that Panther was on the defensive the entire time during the fight.
** If the Phoenix Five takeover made the Earth a utopia, the story might seem to argue for some form of benevolent dictatorship, which is rather at odds with years of stories about the likes of DoctorDoom and Korvac.
*** [[AvertedTrope Averted]] with regards to questions about just how the P5 successfully resolved certain [[FlameBait extremely]] contentious real-world conflicts that have been shown to exist in the MarvelUniverse, because [[spoiler: most of this happens quietly off-panel during the time skip.]]
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Pretty much every character in the book, with Captain America of all people being the most obvious victim.

to:

* AcceptableProfessionalTargets: The villain in ''Consequences''? [[spoiler:The privatized prison system]].
* AscendedMeme: Cyclops predicts the rise of the "Cyclops was right" meme in-verse.
* {{Asspull}}: The "Anti-Telpathy" nano-machines Tony Stark creates and injects into all of the Avengers ''specifically'' so Emma Frost can't end the event in issue 2.
* AuthorsSavingThrow: By and large, this storyline was one for numerous critically-panned creative decisions made under JoeQuesada's tenure as Editor-in-Chief. Among the elements thrown out were [[spoiler:Wakanda as a MarySuetopia, the [[TokenRomance Storm/Black Panther relationship]], making ScarletWitch crazy, and, at the very end, [[ComicBook/HouseOfM the Decimation of mutants]]]]. While [=AvX=] was (likely intentionally) polarizing, those stories were all reviled to a much greater degree.
** Dan Slott (who has a flair for these) supplies a humorous one in the final issue of ''Vs.'' for a couple of the [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu more ridiculous victories]] in prior issues. [[spoiler:Turns out Squirrel Girl and Pixie, completely ignorant of the conflict, were playing an RPG with the Puppet Master's voodoo dolls]]. It's somewhat unclear whether this was intended to be canon, but more than a few fans accept it.
* BrokenBase: This event ''should'' have been titled "Avengers Fans vs. X-Men Fans".
** Either you think the Avengers were assholes who came to San Francisco in bad faith ready to kidnap a kid for dubious reasons with no intentions of negotiating or you think that they were justified because the Phoenix is a giant threat, has been a threat in the past and they have to do anything necessary to stop it from potentially destroying everything.
** Either you think that the portrayal of the Phoenix as a destructive entity is fine and in line with the most well known Phoenix story (the Dark Phoenix Saga) or you feel like it's a flimsy premise that ignores 15-20 years of Rachel Summers' existence and her bonding with and complete control of the Phoenix Force (although this is YMMV, as Rachel largely controlled the Phoenix by never trying to access its full power, and even she did slip sometimes).
** Either you think that the actions of the Phoenix Five are in line with the corrupting influence of Phoenix Force or that things are being wildly exaggerated for dramatic effect with the main group being written incredibly out of character.
** Either you take it as given that the Phoenix Five made the world a utopia, or you take it as a given that they did so by quashing free will across the planet.
** Either you think this story is the natural climax/ending of Cyclops' character arc since Messiah Complex or you feel that his {{Jerkass}} qualities have been taken over the top to justify the actions of the Avengers.
*** If not, you either consider Cyclops a [[VillainProtagonist villain]] who's finally getting what he deserves, or you think he's basically a victim to the Avengers who's been pushed to the very end.
** Either you think that Captain America was right in presume over Scott's mental condition, and his lack of open remorse is evident of his fall from grace, or you think he's a detached political sock puppet incapable of recognizing how Scott had been carrying on his shoulders a situation for years so impossible that if one, and only one of his friends dies in an attempt to stave off genocide, (of the usually hate induced variety), rather than say, a bus full of children, then it was in fact a very good day,and think Cap's reaction to his imprisonment are, at best, embarrassing.
*** Just as embarrassing is the fact that Cyclops, in SmugSnake mode, was clearly goading Captain America into taking a swing at him.
** Everything in the story and even the very existence of the story itself really is grounds for heated arguments. Which is probably the point, really, as the Avengers and X-Men have wildly different ideologies and themes that are often debated even when the characters themselves ''aren't'' punching each other.
* ConflictBall: This ball gets volleyed back and forth so much throughout the event that this might as well have been the Olympics. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment Specific examples aside]], many of the people involved have worked with each other and are friends, and much of the event could have been averted if some of them sat down and talked like adults.
* DesignatedHero:
** The Avengers and anyone siding with them. To X-Men fans, they've spent the entire story acting like giant antagonistic jackasses and are essentially responsible for most of the bad things that happen (Mainly by showing up, telling Cyclops they're taking the potential savior of his near extinct race and that's that; and again when Iron Man's "brilliant plan" causes the Phoenix Force to be split and create the Phoenix Five). Issue 11 pretty much pushes it over the top despite the fact the Avengers are, nominally, the heroes of the story. Acknowledged in the last issue, where CaptainAmerica realizes that the Avengers have been pretty crappy heroes when it comes to mutant affairs.
** Wolverine specifically fell under this early on in the story, as his solution to dealing with the Phoenix was ''to outright kill the teenage girl who was the intended host before the Phoenix arrived'', which went much farther than the Avengers merely wanting to take Hope off-world in the event that she was unable to control the Phoenix. However, he soon backed down from this line of thinking when he realised he couldn't go through with killing a child.
*** In ''Consequences'', Scott [[WhatTheHellHero really lets Logan have it]] over this.
* DesignatedVillain: Cyclops' X-Men, and later the Phoenix Five. At least, until they become corrupted by the Phoenix Force and start acting more like actual villains. Even then, Cyclops could still be a designated villain, as he only gets consumed by the Dark Phoenix after much poking and prodding by the Avengers and the X-Men. Until that point he kinda kept his sanity, [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity at least compared to his teammates]].
* MagnificentBastard: Cyclops is an {{Anti Hero}}ic example, particularly in ''Consequences'' where he displays that he knows how to play him some ''serious'' politics.
* MemeticMutation: [[http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/55309/2631598-2562506_cykewasright.jpg Cyclops]] [[http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mck85mqkGJ1rv08b8o1_500.png was]] [[http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_men66cUjQi1rk7w2qo1_500.jpg right.]]"
* MoralDissonance: In he end, the Phoenix Five are punished, with Cyclops being regarded as a war criminal. Never mind the fact that they were mind controlled by the Phoenix and shouldn't be held responsible, but many of the people condemning them for their actions have ''also'' committed crimes while not themselves, but also Cap's behavior during the whole debacle is very similar to the way Tony Stark acted during Civil War, which Cap was violently against. Add in the fact that the whole mess and every time it escalated was directly the Avengers fault, making Cap, the Avengers, and the X-Men that sided with the Avengers come off as very hypocritical.
** This one really is YMMV, since "mind controlled by the Phoenix!" has never excused anyone ever from what they've done. Jean Grey has born responsibility for the events of the Dark Phoenix saga for decades, and a part of what happens in Inferno is dedicated to her accepting that whether in the flesh or not, she can't duck out of it by saying "it was the Phoenix, not me!" And unlike the Jean of the Dark Phoenix Saga, Scott knew full well what the Phoenix was capable of doing. He'd seen it do terrible things to the women he loved time and time again, but he still turned to its power when given the chance, and did not relinquish said power when he could have. The other X-Men may not have known better, but Scott Summers of all people should have known better than to ever trust the force which had thrice deprived him of his wife.
** Magneto even calls Scott out on this later on in the aftermath when they've escaped their various prisons and are trying to start over. Cyclops argues with Emma that what he did to her when he stole the Phoenix power from her was not him, which by extension means that none of them should be held accountable for their actions because they were possessed. Magneto proceeds to chew Scott out over this in spectacular fashion - using his own life as a reference, Magneto reminds Scott that the Master of Magnetism himself had done many terrible things in his life and he'd always shrugged it off as not truly being but merely "madness" but ultimately Magneto himself had to learn to accept the fact that it was him and not some monster, and then chastises Scott for trying to absolve himself of his benevolent dictatorship stunt by blaming it all on the Phoenix.
* MoralEventHorizon:
** [[spoiler:Emma]] has two possible moments thus far. In the ''ComicBook/AvengersAcademy'' tie-in, [[spoiler:she scraps Juston Seyfert's [[RobotBuddy pet Sentinel]], simply for being a Sentinel]], while in issue 9 of the main series, she [[spoiler:telepathically kills a man who had killed a mutant child thirty years ago in a hit and run, and kept it a secret]].
** [[spoiler:The Avengers invade the sovereign nation of Utopia, take (almost) the entire mutant species prisoner and hold them in concentration camps where their powers are disabled]]
** [[spoiler:Namor's assault on Wakanda, which likely killed countless civilians.]]
** The prison where Scott is being held in ''Consequences'' crosses when [[spoiler:they allow Scott's new friend, a newly-activated mutant, to be lynched by the other inmates]]. This causes Scott to [[spoiler:accept Magneto's offer to break him out]].
* {{Narm}}: In issue 11, Iceman tells Xavier that he considers Scott his brother, but he can't let him carry on down the path he's headed anymore. Fair enough, but why is it narm? Havok, ''the actual younger brother of Cyclops'', is in the background as Iceman says this.
** After an entire summer event concerning superhero on superhero violence, we finally get a scene of Captain America humbly coming to a power he cannot control, admits they have been unfairly estranged for many years, and begs it for help against the coming threat. By which he means The Hulk, rather than the godlike being whose granddaughter he kidnapped. It's hard for a reader to forget that had he done that in issue 1, the whole thing would have been avoided.
** "No more Phoenix." Aside from how stupid and awkward it sounds, it being the second play on "no more mutants" within the same series basically means it came off as trying too hard.
** The shot of Cyclops crying with tears streaming down from out of his visor [[spoiler:after he kills Xavier and screams that it's really all Captain America's fault, just before he goes Dark Phoenix. And then of course, the shot of him standing there as the Dark Phoenix. And then a moment during the final fight when he thinks back on how all he wanted to do was make the world a better place as images of the past flash through his mind, briefly begs to be killed, and then goes back to being crazy as rips through the Avengers and tears apart the Utopia that he worked so hard to build. And then when he's finally got the Phoenix excised from him, the shot of him looking sad about "the blood on his hands" is just so full of narm it almost isn't funny.]]
* OlderThanTheyThink: Cyclops became a host of the Phoenix Force in the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover.
* OutOfCharacter: Much like ''Civil War'' and other hero vs. hero events that have been Marvel staples recently this was one of the big criticisms of the story as it required characters on both sides to behave out of character to push the damn story forward.
* SignatureScene: The choking scene in issue #11 was framed as being the most brutal moment of the event up to that point with a mostly silent double paged spread and images of Emma screaming horrifically and then laying still with blood coming out of her mouth.
* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: On an issue-to-issue basis this event was received much better than [[Comicbook/FearItself its immediate predecessor]], and even those who didn't like it were at least interested in where it was going.
* TheyJustDidntCare: Like ''Civil War'' and ''Fear Itself'' before it, due to its massive IdiotPlot.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Interested in seeing what this utopia the Phoenix Five created is like? Too bad! The reader is merely told that they P5 made the world a perfect place. Actually seeing any of that, examining the morality of a benign dictatorship, seeing what the ordinary person thinks about the benevolent cosmic-powered mutants who took over the world, etc., would get in the way of more punching.
* WTHCostumingDepartment:
** Most of the Phoenix Five's costumes look just fine - except for Cyclops, who appears to be wearing a red thong.
** Namor is wearing a top that is essentially sleeves and shoulder pads but nothing underneath, until it gets to his extra tight pants. On the other hand, it's still an improvement over a speedo.
** Emma Frost probably ''would'' go here, except... it's [[MsFanservice Emma]].
* UnfortunateImplications:
** Thor smashes Emma Frost in her diamond mode into pieces with his hammer, for questioning his masculinity.
*** The whole battle is fraught with weird, semi-Freudian undertones. Heck, the above mentioned part of the battle has Thor [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything shattering Emma in the middle from the crotch up with his hammer]]!
** Black Panther annuls his marriage after a fight with his wife.
*** The same fight where Storm declares that she no longer wants to be married to Panther and throws down her wedding ring. Also worth noting is that Panther was on the defensive the entire time during the fight.
** If the Phoenix Five takeover made the Earth a utopia, the story might seem to argue for some form of benevolent dictatorship, which is rather at odds with years of stories about the likes of DoctorDoom and Korvac.
*** [[AvertedTrope Averted]] with regards to questions about just how the P5 successfully resolved certain [[FlameBait extremely]] contentious real-world conflicts that have been shown to exist in the MarvelUniverse, because [[spoiler: most of this happens quietly off-panel during the time skip.]]
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Pretty much every character in the book, with Captain America of all people being the most obvious victim.
[[redirect:AvengersVsXMen]]
11th Jun '14 3:15:50 AM loki10001
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** [[spoiler:The Avengers invade the sovereign nation of Utopia, take (almost) the entire mutant species prisoner and hold them in concentration camps where their powers are disabled]]
10th Jun '14 1:14:53 AM Forenperser
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*** Note, however, that this has been Wolverine's solution to this sort of problem in the past. He stabbed Rachel through the heart when she was about to kill the Black Queen (who as an [[HumanoidAbomination ancient psychic vampire]] probably deserved it) simply because he didn't want her to go down the path of Dark Phoenix. Likewise, during ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' he sets his sights on killing both the Scarlet Witch and Wiccan in order to prevent them from doing any more RealityWarper stuff -- ever.



** Also just looking to the Phoenix for salvation in the first place. Down the years, it has been shown to make people DrunkOnTheDarkSide, including the original (Dark) Phoenix, Madelyne Pryor and yes even Rachel Summers on some occasions. It ''destroys worlds'', and Scott of all people should know that. But he is prepared to risk Earth in the Hope (pun intended) that for once it can be controlled perfectly, purely because he has come to increasingly share Magneto's original view that [[FantasticRacism mutants are a separate species from humans]] and that their lives are meaningless if they are BroughtDownToNormal, thus [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans justifying the risk to ''all'' of humanity]]!
** Not to mention Scott's idea of making the world a better place was to turn it into a ''frigging police state''. True it had nice food and nice weather and presumably better health care, but a prison by any other name is still a prison.
8th Jun '14 5:46:38 PM VeryMelon
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* MoneyShot: The choking scene in issue #11 was framed as being the most brutal moment of the event up to that point with a mostly silent double paged spread and images of Emma screaming horrifically and then laying still with blood coming out of her mouth.


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* SignatureScene: The choking scene in issue #11 was framed as being the most brutal moment of the event up to that point with a mostly silent double paged spread and images of Emma screaming horrifically and then laying still with blood coming out of her mouth.
27th May '14 9:25:06 PM billthetaylor
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* TheyJustDidntCare: Like ''Civil War'' and ''Fear Itself'' before it, due to its massive IdiotPlot.
27th May '14 9:21:45 PM billthetaylor
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** Not to mention Scott's idea of making the world a better place was to turn it into a ''frigging police state''. True it had nice food and nice weather and presumably better health care, but a prison by any other name is still a prison.


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** The shot of Cyclops crying with tears streaming down from out of his visor [[spoiler:after he kills Xavier and screams that it's really all Captain America's fault, just before he goes Dark Phoenix. And then of course, the shot of him standing there as the Dark Phoenix. And then a moment during the final fight when he thinks back on how all he wanted to do was make the world a better place as images of the past flash through his mind, briefly begs to be killed, and then goes back to being crazy as rips through the Avengers and tears apart the Utopia that he worked so hard to build. And then when he's finally got the Phoenix excised from him, the shot of him looking sad about "the blood on his hands" is just so full of narm it almost isn't funny.]]
24th May '14 11:29:51 PM psionycx
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** Either you think that the portrayal of the Phoenix as a destructive entity is fine and in line with the most well known Phoenix story (the Dark Phoenix Saga) or you feel like it's a flimsy premise that ignores 15-20 years of Rachel Summers' existence and her bonding with and complete control of the Phoenix Force.

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** Either you think that the portrayal of the Phoenix as a destructive entity is fine and in line with the most well known Phoenix story (the Dark Phoenix Saga) or you feel like it's a flimsy premise that ignores 15-20 years of Rachel Summers' existence and her bonding with and complete control of the Phoenix Force.Force (although this is YMMV, as Rachel largely controlled the Phoenix by never trying to access its full power, and even she did slip sometimes).
24th May '14 10:18:08 PM psionycx
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*** Note, however, that this has been Wolverine's solution to this sort of problem in the past. He stabbed Rachel through the heart when she was about to kill the Black Queen (who as an [[HumanoidAbomination ancient psychic vampire]] probably deserved it) simply because he didn't want her to go down the path of Dark Phoenix. Likewise, during ''Comicbook/TheChildrensCrusade'' he sets his sights on killing both the Scarlet Witch and Wiccan in order to prevent them from doing any more RealityWarper stuff -- ever.


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** Also just looking to the Phoenix for salvation in the first place. Down the years, it has been shown to make people DrunkOnTheDarkSide, including the original (Dark) Phoenix, Madelyne Pryor and yes even Rachel Summers on some occasions. It ''destroys worlds'', and Scott of all people should know that. But he is prepared to risk Earth in the Hope (pun intended) that for once it can be controlled perfectly, purely because he has come to increasingly share Magneto's original view that [[FantasticRacism mutants are a separate species from humans]] and that their lives are meaningless if they are BroughtDownToNormal, thus [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans justifying the risk to ''all'' of humanity]]!
20th May '14 5:33:01 PM VeryMelon
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* MoneyShot: The choking scene in issue #11 was framed as being the most brutal moment of the event up to that point with a mostly silent double paged spread and images of Emma screaming horrifically and then laying still with blood coming out of her mouth.
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