History YMMV / ArTonelico2

29th Mar '16 10:04:28 PM ObsidianFire
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** That or DangerouslyGenreSavvy.
** Croix is also far-and-away the most popular male character in the entire series, on both sides of the Pacific. Probably because he's not actually a bog-standard IdiotHero like the other two male leads and [[GenreSavvy actually knows what he's doing]] to some extent.

to:

** That or DangerouslyGenreSavvy.
** Croix is also far-and-away the most popular male character in the entire series, on both sides of the Pacific. Probably because he's not actually a bog-standard IdiotHero like the other two male leads and [[GenreSavvy actually knows what he's doing]] doing to some extent.
21st Jan '15 8:19:03 PM Angeldeb82
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VideoGame/ArTonelico2

* BreatherBoss / ZeroEffortBoss: Dueling with bosses and Reyvateils-only battles appear to be not as hard as they look.
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: Almost any time the hymns come out. The first appearance of [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJzi2p93igk METHOD_REPLEKIA/.]] is a good example. There are more examples than could be easily listed here.

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VideoGame/ArTonelico2

* BreatherBoss / ZeroEffortBoss: Dueling with bosses and Reyvateils-only battles appear to be not as hard as they look.
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome:
SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Almost any time the hymns come out. The first appearance of [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJzi2p93igk METHOD_REPLEKIA/.]] is a good example. There are more examples than could be easily listed here.



** Let's not forget [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oGdjaLmLqw EXEC_SPHILIA/.]] [[spoiler: Jacqli conversing with the Heart of Gaea, about their similarities (sadness, hatred, imprisonment), and promising her understanding whether Cloche/Luca is beautiful or ugly, and convincing her to open her heart, something she may have not yet done for the protagonist.]]

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** Let's not forget [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oGdjaLmLqw EXEC_SPHILIA/.]] EXEC_SPHILIA/]]. [[spoiler: Jacqli conversing with the Heart of Gaea, about their similarities (sadness, hatred, imprisonment), and promising her understanding whether Cloche/Luca is beautiful or ugly, and convincing her to open her heart, something she may have not yet done for the protagonist.]]]]
* BreatherBoss / ZeroEffortBoss: Dueling with bosses and Reyvateils-only battles appear to be not as hard as they look.



* FanPreferredCouple: If doujinshi is anything to go by, Croix/Jacqli is the main one. And, more often than not, [[LesYay Cloche and Luca get paired with each other]].

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* FanPreferredCouple: If doujinshi is anything to go by, Croix/Jacqli is the main one. And, more often than not, [[LesYay [[HoYay Cloche and Luca get paired with each other]].



** Made even worse if you get [[spoiler:Jacqli's]] combo magic. Hello, 1,000,000% (or maybe even [[NoKillLikeOverkill 10,000,000%]]) Phantasmagoria. Meet the BigBad.

to:

** Made even worse if you get [[spoiler:Jacqli's]] combo magic. Hello, 1,000,000% (or maybe even [[NoKillLikeOverkill [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill 10,000,000%]]) Phantasmagoria. Meet the BigBad.



* LesYay: "I joined the Fan Club after having naughty fantasies of Cloche." And that's a ''mild'' one.

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* LesYay: [[HoYay Les Yay]]: "I joined the Fan Club after having naughty fantasies of Cloche." And that's a ''mild'' one.



* [[TearJerker Tear Jerker]]: [[spoiler: when Luca and Cloche find out that they are in fact long-lost sisters.]]

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* [[TearJerker Tear Jerker]]: TearJerker: [[spoiler: when Luca and Cloche find out that they are in fact long-lost sisters.]]
18th Apr '13 6:49:11 PM Nabi
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmA5nCFq3kg&feature=related EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION/. ~omness chs ciel sos infel~]] is amazing. Drop what you're doing now and listen to it. You'll thank us.

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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmA5nCFq3kg&feature=related EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION/. ~omness chs ciel sos infel~]] infel]] is amazing. Drop what you're doing now and listen to it. You'll thank us.
11th Feb '13 4:27:05 AM MockEvilRavish
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* TheWoobie: Frelia and Shun/Enja.
* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. sufferers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against adopting this cruelty in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' ]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Skycat makes a mistake and frames Luca for it, and Luca's speaking up about it didn't help her since Luca was punished for the mistake. Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. Since it ended badly for Luca every time Luca showed her negative emotions, this is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]

to:

* TheWoobie: Frelia and Shun/Enja.
* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts
Shun/Enja. And the rest of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. sufferers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against adopting this cruelty people in the flashback 2nd tower, up to and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' ]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in including the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Skycat makes a mistake and frames Luca for it, and Luca's speaking up about it didn't help her since Luca was punished for the mistake. Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. Since it ended badly for Luca every time Luca showed her negative emotions, this is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]AntiVillain BigBad.
16th Jan '13 5:22:17 AM SeptimusHeap
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* AlasPoorVillain: [[spoiler:Infel.]]
28th Dec '12 8:53:07 AM Bcdeidarauno1
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** Croix is also far-and-away the most popular male character in the entire series, on both sides of the Pacific. Probably because he's not actually a bog-standard IdiotHero like the other two male leads and actually knows what he's doing to some extent.

to:

** Croix is also far-and-away the most popular male character in the entire series, on both sides of the Pacific. Probably because he's not actually a bog-standard IdiotHero like the other two male leads and [[GenreSavvy actually knows what he's doing doing]] to some extent.
24th Dec '12 5:33:59 PM MagBas
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* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. sufferers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against adopting this cruelty in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' Cue WallBanger.]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Skycat makes a mistake and frames Luca for it, and Luca's speaking up about it didn't help her since Luca was punished for the mistake. Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. Since it ended badly for Luca every time Luca showed her negative emotions, this is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. sufferers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against adopting this cruelty in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' Cue WallBanger.]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Skycat makes a mistake and frames Luca for it, and Luca's speaking up about it didn't help her since Luca was punished for the mistake. Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. Since it ended badly for Luca every time Luca showed her negative emotions, this is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]
19th Nov '12 12:56:56 PM MartialArtsMaster
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* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. suffers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against it in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' Cue WallBanger.]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. This is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. suffers sufferers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against it adopting this cruelty in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' Cue WallBanger.]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Skycat makes a mistake and frames Luca for it, and Luca's speaking up about it didn't help her since Luca was punished for the mistake. Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. This Since it ended badly for Luca every time Luca showed her negative emotions, this is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]
19th Nov '12 12:54:49 PM MartialArtsMaster
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* TheWoobie: Frelia and Shun/Enja.

to:

* TheWoobie: Frelia and Shun/Enja.Shun/Enja.
* UnfortunateImplications: This might be more a case of Values Dissonance (since Japan focuses much more on order and harmony than it does on our Western conception of human rights and justice) and/or a case of bad translation, but there are several parts of the plot that are written in such a fashion that we're supposed to think certain brutal treatment of some characters was ''justified''. For example, when we see a flashback of [[spoiler: Alfman forcing Cloche to adopt brutal and cruel values (the same values for which she's blamed for being The Scrappy status, as described above), there is eventually a segment that tries to railroad both Cloche and the player into ''not'' blaming Alfman, because Alfman is a man with a good vision for his country and was only doing what he thought was right. It was probably an attempt to make Alfman seem like a less black-and-white villain, but the way the scene is written it comes off as though we're supposed to think Alfman's cruelty was justified, which puts Cloche in a just-can't-win scenario: her own cruelty to the I.P.D. suffers is portrayed as unjustified and entirely her fault, but she actually tried to rebel against it in the flashback and ''this is portrayed as equally unjustified!!!'' Cue WallBanger.]] Similarly, if you take a different path, there's a flashback where we see [[spoiler: Luca during her time working as a waitress; she's repeatedly treated badly by everyone around her. A customer deliberately makes a perverted move on Luca, and Luca is portrayed as being in the wrong because she wasn't bowing down to the customer's demands, so how ''dare'' she complain about it! Other people repeatedly gossip negatively about her behind her back, and she's told not to get too upset or complain about it since that's their problem and not hers. She gets mad at her mother for being neglectful, and is scolded for this as you might expect. This is how she developed her Stepford Smiler tendencies...except keeping her negative feelings to herself is ''also'' portrayed as an immoral move on her part!]] You have to wonder why fans would consider Luca and Cloche The Scrappy, considering [[spoiler: the standards of moral behavior in Ar Tonelico 2 don't seem internally consistent and seem designed to put the Reyvateils in no-win situations where they're miserable.]]
4th Nov '12 8:34:11 PM Elemiel
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* TheWoobie: Of all people, Frelia. Her past involves being bullied by her peers when she was a kid due to the fact that she came from [[FantasticRacism Elemia]] and Enja, her only acquaintance, sided with them due to fear of being ostracized with her (though he later came to her defense). Heck, Enja himself could be considered a woobie as well.

to:

* TheWoobie: Of all people, Frelia. Her past involves being bullied by her peers when she was a kid due to the fact that she came from [[FantasticRacism Elemia]] Frelia and Enja, her only acquaintance, sided with them due to fear of being ostracized with her (though he later came to her defense). Heck, Enja himself could be considered a woobie as well.Shun/Enja.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.ArTonelico2