History YMMV / ABridgeTooFar

5th Jun '16 6:32:21 PM YT45
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*** Actually they had infantry support. The American paratroopers were raring to go and they could have easily provided the necessary support. The reason the Brits didn't advance was because Montegomery was an inflexible general who ordered the tanks to wait for SPECIFIC support rather than using available resources. The guy was the military equivalent of an old maid, refusing to go on the offense without a significant advantage in men and material. In fact many people believe that if Patton (Monty's opposite in almost every way) had been in command of Market-Garden then it would have succeeded.

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*** Actually they had infantry support. The American paratroopers were raring to go (American and British Airborne troops shared a great deal of mutual respect, and the men of the 82nd in Nijmegen had no doubt that the British 1st Airborne would move Heaven and Earth for them if their positions were reversed) and they could have easily provided the necessary support. The reason the Brits didn't advance was because Montegomery was an inflexible general who ordered the tanks to wait for SPECIFIC support rather than using available resources. The guy was the military equivalent of an old maid, refusing to go on the offense without a significant advantage in men and material. In fact many people believe that if Patton (Monty's opposite in almost every way) had been in command of Market-Garden then it would have succeeded.succeeded.
**** The British Paratroopers who survived Arnhem agreed with the American assessment and utterly despised XXX Corps in General and the Guards Armored in particular for not continuing the advance, with "fucking cowards" being the ''nicest'' thing they'd say. Even seventy years later, it's a ''very'' sore subject among Paras.
5th Jan '16 11:56:17 AM Damar
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** Maj. Fuller receives intelligence that there is a panzer division in the area. He corroborates this with aerial photos. No one listens.

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** Maj. Fuller receives intelligence from the Dutch resistance that there is a panzer division in the area. He corroborates this with aerial photos. No one listens.
17th Nov '15 7:04:20 PM SSJMagus
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**** Indeed, even proposing something as audacious as Market Garden was completely out of character for Monty. It's not surprising that when it came to the actual execution of the plan he reverted to form and failed to be sufficiently aggressive.



*** Note though that two previous Allied offensives on the western front -- the Normandy and Sicily invasions -- had disinformation campaigns the Germans fell for hook, line and sinker. Model would have been aware of this.

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*** Note though that two previous Allied offensives on the western front -- the Normandy and Sicily invasions -- had disinformation campaigns the Germans fell for hook, line and sinker. The Sicily deception even specifically included the corpse of a (fake) British officer with the (fake) battle plans falling into German hands, tricking them into thinking the target was Sardinia rather than Sicily. Model would have been aware of this.
25th Oct '14 6:45:02 PM WJTaylor4
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*** Actually they had infantry support. The American paratroopers were raring to go and they could have easily provided the necessary support. The reason the Brits didn't advance was because Montegomery was an inflexible general who ordered the tanks to wait for SPECIFIC support rather than using available resources. The guy was the military equivalent of an old maid, refusing to go on the offense without a significant advantage in men and material. In fact many people believe that if Patton (Monty's opposite in almost every way) had been in command of Market-Garden than it would have succeeded.

to:

*** Actually they had infantry support. The American paratroopers were raring to go and they could have easily provided the necessary support. The reason the Brits didn't advance was because Montegomery was an inflexible general who ordered the tanks to wait for SPECIFIC support rather than using available resources. The guy was the military equivalent of an old maid, refusing to go on the offense without a significant advantage in men and material. In fact many people believe that if Patton (Monty's opposite in almost every way) had been in command of Market-Garden than then it would have succeeded.


Added DiffLines:

** Montgomery or ''Monty'' being "very proud and pleased'' with the result as he apparently believed Operation Market-Garden was "90% successful." Urquhart (SeanConnery) is appalled, offended, incredulous and anything else you can think of upon hearing this from Browning (Dirk Bogarde).
10th Sep '14 12:45:42 PM JediMasterDraco
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** Hardly trivial. The tank officer clearly states that they couldn't advance without infantry support, which was tied up in Nijmegen. A more appropriate example is an Allied officer bringing the entire plans for Market Garden to Holland with him, where they fall into German hands. Field Marshal Model then dismisses the plans on the grounds that they're obviously a ruse.

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** Hardly trivial. The tank officer clearly states that they couldn't advance without infantry support, which was tied up in Nijmegen. A Nijmegen.
*** Actually they had infantry support. The American paratroopers were raring to go and they could have easily provided the necessary support. The reason the Brits didn't advance was because Montegomery was an inflexible general who ordered the tanks to wait for SPECIFIC support rather than using available resources. The guy was the military equivalent of an old maid, refusing to go on the offense without a significant advantage in men and material. In fact many people believe that if Patton (Monty's opposite in almost every way) had been in command of Market-Garden than it would have succeeded.
**A
more appropriate example is an Allied officer bringing the entire plans for Market Garden to Holland with him, where they fall into German hands. Field Marshal Model then dismisses the plans on the grounds that they're obviously a ruse.
30th Dec '13 3:00:26 PM LtFedora
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Added DiffLines:

** Field Marshal Model actually says this of the British. General Bittrich asks him if they should ready the bridges for destruction, but Model laughs this off. "They're not after the bridges! If they were, do you think they'd land eight kilometers away from them?"
4th Sep '13 4:48:05 AM Odon
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Added DiffLines:

** General Sosabowski points the holes in the operation plan, only to be ignored by the rest of the staff.
** Maj. Fuller receives intelligence that there is a panzer division in the area. He corroborates this with aerial photos. No one listens.
5th Nov '12 5:01:45 PM StFan
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Added DiffLines:

* WhatAnIdiot: A British tank officer tells an incredulous American paratroop commander that they won't immediately press on to Arnhem after taking Nijmegen because of some trivial reason. Note that this is HollywoodHistory. XXX Corps needed time to marshal their forces and resupply their leading elements when Nijmegen bridge was secured.
** Hardly trivial. The tank officer clearly states that they couldn't advance without infantry support, which was tied up in Nijmegen. A more appropriate example is an Allied officer bringing the entire plans for Market Garden to Holland with him, where they fall into German hands. Field Marshal Model then dismisses the plans on the grounds that they're obviously a ruse.
*** Note though that two previous Allied offensives on the western front -- the Normandy and Sicily invasions -- had disinformation campaigns the Germans fell for hook, line and sinker. Model would have been aware of this.
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9th Oct '12 7:21:48 AM Dante668
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* SugarWiki/FunnyMoments - When, during a truce, the Germans ask Colonel Frost if he'd be willing to discuss terms for surrender. (The Germans have them completely surrounded at this point.) Frost's adjutant refuses by telling them that he doesn't have any facilities to accept ''their'' surrender. (This particular scene is fiction, it didn't happen in RealLife.)
** Also the scene in Field Marshal Model's HQ.
-->'''Adjutant:''' "British paratroopers have landed three kilometers from here!"
-->'''Model:''' "Why should they do that? There's nothing important here...Me! I'm important! They must all be coming just to capture me!"
*** [[RealLifeSubtext In real life]], Model did confuse the landing forces for commandos out to capture him.
* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome - JamesCaan, convincing an army surgeon to examine his commanding officer (whom the surgeon dismisses as dead). "Would you look at him please, sir? ''[draws pistol]'' Right now. Or I'll blow your [[PrecisionFStrike fuckin' head off]]."
** In case any bets need to be settled, [[TruthInTelevision this actually happened.]]
** "I'm sorry, we'd like to accept your surrender, but we haven't the proper facilities to take you all prisoner."
* TearJerker - Plenty, particularly the scene at the end where the injured soldiers sing "Abide With Me" as they wait for the Germans to take them prisoner.
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12th Jul '12 3:04:28 PM movie007
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* CrowningMomentOfAwesome - JamesCaan, convincing an army surgeon to examine his commanding officer (whom the surgeon dismisses as dead). "Would you look at him please, sir? ''[draws pistol]'' Right now. Or I'll blow your [[{{PrecisionFStrike}} fuckin' head off]]."
** In case any bets need to be settled, [[TruthInTelevision this actually happened.]]
** "I'm sorry, we'd like to accept your surrender, but we haven't the proper facilities to take you all prisoner."
* CrowningMomentOfFunny - When, during a truce, the Germans ask Colonel Frost if he'd be willing to discuss terms for surrender. (The Germans have them completely surrounded at this point.) Frost's adjutant refuses by telling them that he doesn't have any facilities to accept ''their'' surrender. (This particular scene is fiction, it didn't happen in RealLife.)

to:

* CrowningMomentOfAwesome - JamesCaan, convincing an army surgeon to examine his commanding officer (whom the surgeon dismisses as dead). "Would you look at him please, sir? ''[draws pistol]'' Right now. Or I'll blow your [[{{PrecisionFStrike}} fuckin' head off]]."
** In case any bets need to be settled, [[TruthInTelevision this actually happened.]]
** "I'm sorry, we'd like to accept your surrender, but we haven't the proper facilities to take you all prisoner."
* CrowningMomentOfFunny
SugarWiki/FunnyMoments - When, during a truce, the Germans ask Colonel Frost if he'd be willing to discuss terms for surrender. (The Germans have them completely surrounded at this point.) Frost's adjutant refuses by telling them that he doesn't have any facilities to accept ''their'' surrender. (This particular scene is fiction, it didn't happen in RealLife.)


Added DiffLines:

* SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome - JamesCaan, convincing an army surgeon to examine his commanding officer (whom the surgeon dismisses as dead). "Would you look at him please, sir? ''[draws pistol]'' Right now. Or I'll blow your [[PrecisionFStrike fuckin' head off]]."
** In case any bets need to be settled, [[TruthInTelevision this actually happened.]]
** "I'm sorry, we'd like to accept your surrender, but we haven't the proper facilities to take you all prisoner."
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.ABridgeTooFar