History WhatMeasureIsANonHuman / LiveActionTV

21st Aug '17 10:42:41 PM PhantomRider
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** In an earlier episode, Ecliptor (one of the monsters vaporized in this attack) explains that he (and presumably other monstrous-looking villains) are evil because they were built to be.

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** In an earlier episode, Ecliptor (one of the monsters vaporized in this attack) explains that he (and presumably other monstrous-looking villains) are evil because they were built to be. Of course, he was the most noble NobleDemon ever and truly loved his surrogate daughter Astronema.



** Three very telling examples: Camille of ''Jungle Fury'' survives and turns good despite not being human (She has a human form, but traits like her prehensile tongue suggest that this is not her ''true'' form). On the other hand, Zeltrax of ''Dino Thunder'', who does not have a face, is [[strike:killed]] destroyed, despite the fact that we are told not only that he is a human wearing cybernetic prostheses after a lab accident, we are even told his ''human name'' (It's Terrence Smith, aka Smitty). Likewise, Frax of ''Time Force'' is turned evil and ultimately dies, despite the fact that he also was once human before being forced into a robotic body.
** Also, the series compromised this policy when Trakeena was finally defeated in ''Series/PowerRangersLightspeedRescue''. Sure, she ''looked'' like any other MonsterOfTheWeek when she was killed, but she had previously been the same type of [[HumanAliens Human Alien]] that folks like Divatox had been.
** Master Org spends most of the series looking like a human in eeevil makeup, but has a monster form when he's taken out (however, there's a moment of his human form being seen just before he's ''gooified'' once and for all.) Moltor and Flurious were near-human[[note]]Their current monstrous forms were explicity caused by the series' main MacGuffin when they first touched it long ago. We never got a ''good'' look at their pre-monster forms' features, but they were wearing modified, reused ''Ninja Storm'' student outfits, which means to not have shown, the level of alienness couldn't be higher than ''Franchise/StarTrek'' class. The backstory takes place too long ago for Earth humans to exist, but Moltor doesn't protest when Mack says "You were human once" and accuses him of throwing away his humanity for power. That's all {{Canon}} gives us.[[/note]] In the last two episodes, Moltor dies for real, and Flurious, though he does fight as a OneWingedAngel, is finally destroyed in his human-with-makeup-faced standard form by Mack, who was ''determined to finish him off even though he'd already been defeated." Mind you, Mack had... issues... at this point.

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** Three very telling examples: Camille of ''Jungle Fury'' survives and turns good despite not being human (She has a human form, but traits like her prehensile tongue suggest that this is not her ''true'' form). On the other hand, Zeltrax of ''Dino Thunder'', who does not have a face, is [[strike:killed]] destroyed, despite the fact that we are told not only that he is a human wearing cybernetic prostheses after a lab accident, we are even told his ''human name'' (It's Terrence Smith, aka Smitty). Likewise, Frax (formerly Louis Fericks) of ''Time Force'' is turned evil and ultimately dies, despite the fact that he also was once human before being forced into a robotic body.
** Also, Before that, the series compromised this policy when Trakeena was finally defeated in ''Series/PowerRangersLightspeedRescue''. Sure, she ''looked'' like any other MonsterOfTheWeek when she was killed, but she had previously been the same type of [[HumanAliens Human Alien]] that folks like Divatox had been.
** Master Org spends most of the series looking like a human in eeevil makeup, but has a monster form when he's taken out (however, when taking the final blow there's a moment of his human form being seen just before he's ''gooified'' once and for all.all! Cole even visits his grave at the end of the series.) Moltor and Flurious were near-human[[note]]Their near-human[[note]]How human, we can't know for sure. Their current monstrous forms were explicity caused by the series' main MacGuffin when they first touched it long ago. We ago, but we never got a ''good'' look at their pre-monster forms' features, but as they were wearing modified, reused ''Ninja Storm'' student outfits, which means to not have shown, the level of outfits. As such, we can't know they looked 100% human, but any alienness couldn't be higher than ''Franchise/StarTrek'' class.RubberForeheadAlien level would surely have shown. The backstory takes place too long ago for Earth humans to exist, but Moltor doesn't protest when Mack says "You were human once" and accuses him of throwing away his humanity for power. That's all {{Canon}} gives us.[[/note]] In the last two episodes, Moltor dies for real, and Flurious, though he does fight as a OneWingedAngel, is finally destroyed in his human-with-makeup-faced standard form by Mack, who was ''determined to finish him off even though he'd already been totally defeated." '' Mind you, Mack had... issues... at this point.



** ''Series/KamenRiderFaiz'' is pretty much based entirely around exploring this trope. With Orphenoch protagonists getting as much screentime as the Riders, and the second Rider's hatred of them regardless of alignment being only one of his many {{Jerkass}} qualities. It helps that the "monsters" are formerly human, and generally forced or bribed into evil.

to:

** ''Series/KamenRiderFaiz'' is pretty much based entirely around exploring this trope. With trope, with Orphenoch protagonists getting as much screentime as the Riders, and the second Rider's hatred of them regardless of alignment being only one of his many {{Jerkass}} qualities. It helps that the "monsters" are formerly human, and generally forced or bribed into evil. In the end, some humans and some Orphenochs survive.



*** [[spoiler: Emotions play big role in this. Eiji and Hina spent most of the story around Ankh and came to like him, so it's obvious they would be upset over the thought of him dying. Being a Greed doesn't have anything to do with it.]]

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*** [[spoiler: Emotions play big role in this. Eiji and Hina spent most of the story around Ankh and came to like him, so it's obvious they would be upset over the thought of him dying. Being a Greed doesn't have anything to do with it. The team also didn't hesitate to end Dr. Maki in order to save the world, though as usual it was after he'd taken a monster form.]]



** ''Series/KamenRiderDrive'' plays with this in a very complicated fashion that lingers heavily on the point of view and AlternativeCharacterInterpretation. [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Roimundes]] are shown to be sentient and as capable of emotion as humans. The problem is that they are, by programming and other causes, very rarely anything else than AlwaysChaoticEvil. [[TheHero Shinnosuke]] usually doesn't have any issue with fighting them because they cause suffering and chaos, but doesn't have problem with accepting the ones, who do not. On the other hand, the second rider, [[RedOniBlueOni Gou]] holds the adamant resolution that all Roimundes are evil and throws a nasty fit when proved otherwise. From the point of Roimundes, they are as worthy as humans and what the riders do is a slaughter.

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** ''Series/KamenRiderDrive'' plays with this in a very complicated fashion that lingers heavily on the point of view and AlternativeCharacterInterpretation. [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Roimundes]] Roidmudes]] are shown to be sentient and as capable of emotion as humans. The problem is that they are, by programming and other causes, very rarely anything else than AlwaysChaoticEvil. [[TheHero Shinnosuke]] usually doesn't have any issue with fighting them because they cause suffering and chaos, but doesn't have problem with accepting the ones, ones who do not. On the other hand, the second rider, [[RedOniBlueOni Gou]] holds the adamant resolution that all Roimundes are evil and throws a nasty fit when proved otherwise. From the point of Roimundes, they are as worthy as humans and what the riders do is a slaughter. They view ''humans'' as lesser, though. As such, you'll have a Roidmude general filled with righteous fury over the Rider as a murderer, but shrug off "yeah, and what about all the humans you lot have killed?" with "they were just humans."
4th Jun '17 1:56:19 AM Flame
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** ''Series/KamenRiderFaiz'' is pretty much based entirely around exploring this trope. With Orphenoch protagonists getting as much screentime as the Riders, and the second Rider's hatred of them regardless of alignment being only one of his many {{Jerkass}} qualities. It helps that the "monsters" are formerly human, and generally forced or bribed into evil.



*** [[spoiler: Emotions play big role in this. Eiji and Hina spent most of the story around Ankh and came to like him, so it's obvious they would be upset over the thought of him dying. Being a Greed doesn't have anything to do with it.]]



** ''Series/KamenRiderFaiz'' is pretty much based entirely around exploring this trope. With Orphenoch protagonists getting as much screentime as the Riders, and the second Rider's hatred of them regardless of alignment being only one of his many {{Jerkass}} qualities. It helps that the "monsters" are formerly human, and generally forced or bribed into evil.
** ''Series/KamenRiderDrive'' plays with this in a very complicated fashion that lingers heavily on the point of view and AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.[[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Roimundes]] are shown to be sentient and as capable of emotion as humans. The problem is that they are, by programming and other causes, very rarely anything else than AlwaysChaoticEvil. [[TheHero Shinnosuke]] usually doesn't have any issue with fighting them because they cause suffering and chaos, but doesn't have problem with accepting the ones, who do not. On the other hand, the second rider,[[RedOniBlueOni Gou]] holds the adamant resolution that all Roimundes are evil and throws a nasty fit when proved otherwise. From the point of Roimundes, they are as worthy as humans and what the riders do is a slaughter.

to:

** ''Series/KamenRiderFaiz'' is pretty much based entirely around exploring this trope. With Orphenoch protagonists getting as much screentime as the Riders, and the second Rider's hatred of them regardless of alignment being only one of his many {{Jerkass}} qualities. It helps that the "monsters" are formerly human, and generally forced or bribed into evil.
** ''Series/KamenRiderDrive'' plays with this in a very complicated fashion that lingers heavily on the point of view and AlternativeCharacterInterpretation. [[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Roimundes]] are shown to be sentient and as capable of emotion as humans. The problem is that they are, by programming and other causes, very rarely anything else than AlwaysChaoticEvil. [[TheHero Shinnosuke]] usually doesn't have any issue with fighting them because they cause suffering and chaos, but doesn't have problem with accepting the ones, who do not. On the other hand, the second rider,[[RedOniBlueOni rider, [[RedOniBlueOni Gou]] holds the adamant resolution that all Roimundes are evil and throws a nasty fit when proved otherwise. From the point of Roimundes, they are as worthy as humans and what the riders do is a slaughter.slaughter.
** ''Series/KamenRiderExAid'' provides a ziggzagged example. Resident MonsterOfTheWeek species, Bugsters are videogame characters that spawn in real world by infecting people in form of virus. As such, they are bound by their programming and thus only capable of emotion or independent thought as much as it allows. Usually, there is no way to save the patient without destroying the Bugster spawned. Most Bugsters are violent because they were programmed as villains of their respective games. [[TheHeart Emu]] has some succes trying to reason with the benign ones. Other Doctor riders don't have such moral compunctions if presented oppurtunity.
*** The matter is brought up by de facto leader of Bugsters, [[EnigmaticMinion Pallad]]. He calls humans out on being hypocritical by creating video games only to have [[DesignatedVillain designated villains]] they could beat up to feel better about themselves. From his point of view Bugsters matter as much as humans do. If it doesn't matter if they were defeated according to game rules, because that's how it's supposed to be. They can respawn indefinitely. He objects only to their DesignatedVillain position.
12th Apr '17 2:48:38 AM Flame
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** ''Series/KamenRiderDrive'' plays with this in a very complicated fashion that lingers heavily on the point of view and AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.[[RidiculouslyHumanRobots Roimundes]] are shown to be sentient and as capable of emotion as humans. The problem is that they are, by programming and other causes, very rarely anything else than AlwaysChaoticEvil. [[TheHero Shinnosuke]] usually doesn't have any issue with fighting them because they cause suffering and chaos, but doesn't have problem with accepting the ones, who do not. On the other hand, the second rider,[[RedOniBlueOni Gou]] holds the adamant resolution that all Roimundes are evil and throws a nasty fit when proved otherwise. From the point of Roimundes, they are as worthy as humans and what the riders do is a slaughter.
19th Mar '17 10:29:33 AM Sammettik
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* However, ChouSeiKantaiSazerX, an indirect sequel to Gransazer, heavily averts this trope by having some of the major characters being aliens played by PeopleInRubberSuits. These major characters all survive. On the flipside, most of the human looking villains unceremoniously die, one of them being a victim to having [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlived her usefulness]] to the BigBad.

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* However, ChouSeiKantaiSazerX, ''Series/ChouSeiKantaiSazerX,'' an indirect sequel to Gransazer, heavily averts this trope by having some of the major characters being aliens played by PeopleInRubberSuits. These major characters all survive. On the flipside, most of the human looking villains unceremoniously die, one of them being a victim to having [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlived her usefulness]] to the BigBad.
17th Feb '17 4:04:12 AM Morgenthaler
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** In season six, we find out that all these supernatural creatures [[spoiler:are created by the children of one Mother and tend toward AlwaysChaoticEvil, especially when she's around.]] In season seven, we see that it's still possible for at least one monster to choose not to give in to TheDarkSide most of the time. Every time a monster or witch doesn't act evil, though, it never seems to last--resulting in the [[TheHunter Hunters']] [[VigilanteMan position]] making more sense.

to:

** In season six, we find out that all these supernatural creatures [[spoiler:are created by the children of one Mother and tend toward AlwaysChaoticEvil, especially when she's around.]] In season seven, we see that it's still possible for at least one monster to choose not to give in to TheDarkSide most of the time. Every time a monster or witch doesn't act evil, though, it never seems to last--resulting in the [[TheHunter [[HunterOfMonsters Hunters']] [[VigilanteMan position]] making more sense.
13th Jan '17 8:05:27 PM Xtifr
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** ''UltramanCosmos'' tamed the ''monsters'', in the ultimate subversion. However, many were killed by [[BigBad Chaos]].

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** ''UltramanCosmos'' ''Series/UltramanCosmos'' tamed the ''monsters'', in the ultimate subversion. However, many were killed by [[BigBad Chaos]].
30th Oct '16 3:55:09 PM nombretomado
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* ''HerculesTheLegendaryJourneys'' explores the question in an episode which reveals that most of the mythological monsters Hercules killed during the first season were, at one point, just as sentient and emotionally complex as anyone else. Though it's played for comedy at first, as Hercules learns all this from their bumbling GentleGiant father, it comes to a dramatic head when he finds out that Hercules has killed them all: the ensuing fight's only resolved when a regretful Hercules (now realizing that he'd unfairly dismissed them as mindless monsters) convinces him that there really wasn't any other option, since BigBad Hera had brainwashed them into becoming her evil minions.

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* ''HerculesTheLegendaryJourneys'' ''Series/HerculesTheLegendaryJourneys'' explores the question in an episode which reveals that most of the mythological monsters Hercules killed during the first season were, at one point, just as sentient and emotionally complex as anyone else. Though it's played for comedy at first, as Hercules learns all this from their bumbling GentleGiant father, it comes to a dramatic head when he finds out that Hercules has killed them all: the ensuing fight's only resolved when a regretful Hercules (now realizing that he'd unfairly dismissed them as mindless monsters) convinces him that there really wasn't any other option, since BigBad Hera had brainwashed them into becoming her evil minions.
2nd Oct '16 8:10:32 PM Fireblood
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* ''{{Series/Westworld}}'': The androids are used as something to kill or have sex with (whether consensual or not within the storyline) by many guests. Some who begin to malfunction eventually realize what happens to them, and want revenge.
21st Jul '16 1:31:57 PM flootzavut
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** When Willow goes dark and on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against Warren after he shoots Buffy and Tara, killing the former, Buffy is literally the ''only'' one of the Scoobies who wants Warren to face human justice for his crimes, while Xander and Dawn are so disgusted and pissed that they openly support Willow's intent to kill; after she succeeds, even Buffy reluctantly admits that Warren ''may'' have deserved to die. Nonetheless, the Scoobies all rally to defend Warren's ex-cohorts, who Willow is [[MisplacedRetribution now targeting]], because they had done nothing to deserve death.

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** When Willow goes dark and on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against Warren after he shoots Buffy and Tara, killing the former, latter, Buffy is literally the ''only'' one of the Scoobies who wants Warren to face human justice for his crimes, while Xander and Dawn are so disgusted and pissed that they openly support Willow's intent to kill; after she succeeds, even Buffy reluctantly admits that Warren ''may'' have deserved to die. Nonetheless, the Scoobies all rally to defend Warren's ex-cohorts, who Willow is [[MisplacedRetribution now targeting]], because they had done nothing to deserve death.
3rd Dec '15 3:56:39 PM DarkHunter
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** This is even inverted at one point: an Unas named Chakka captures Daniel on a hunt as part of a rite of passage in his tribe, but by the end is arguing with his people that Daniel is an intelligent being, not an animal, and thus should not be ritually killed.
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