History Website / Smogon

24th Feb '17 11:38:40 AM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* NoExceptYes: The best way to describe the old Ubers tier. It was considered a banlist ''first'', meaning that [[ExactWords no Pokémon]] can be banned from it and little effort is made to balance it out. While it functioned similarly to the other tiers because there are enough Pokémon for it to do so, it is blatantly overcentralized around the biggest {{Game Breaker}}s in the franchise and the tournaments for it only exist because of RuleOfFun. While things ''can'' get banned from Ubers (which is essentially a full-game ban), they have to be so ridiculously abusive, unreasonably difficult to counter, and just plain brain-dead as to make leaving them unbanned toxic to the entire game.\\\
The role has shifted to the ''Anything Goes'' tier, with the conversion of Ubers to a standard tier and [[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Mega Rayquaza]] '''being banned from Ubers'''[[note]]though Mega Gengar very nearly wound up there first, and there have been calls for Primal Groudon to go there as well[[/note]].
9th Feb '17 5:34:42 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* NoExceptYes:
** The best way to describe the old Ubers tier. It was considered a banlist ''first'', meaning that [[ExactWords no Pokémon]] can be banned from it and little effort is made to balance it out. While it functioned similarly to the other tiers because there are enough Pokémon for it to do so, it is blatantly overcentralized around the biggest {{Game Breaker}}s in the franchise and the tournaments for it only exist because of RuleOfFun. While things ''can'' get banned from Ubers (which is essentially a full-game ban), they have to be so ridiculously abusive, unreasonably difficult to counter, and just plain brain-dead as to make leaving them unbanned toxic to the entire game.
** That role has shifted to the ''Anything Goes'' tier, with the conversion of Ubers to a standard tier and [[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Mega Rayquaza]] '''being banned from Ubers'''[[note]]though Mega Gengar very nearly wound up there first, and there have been calls for Primal Groudon to go there as well[[/note]].

to:

* NoExceptYes:
**
NoExceptYes: The best way to describe the old Ubers tier. It was considered a banlist ''first'', meaning that [[ExactWords no Pokémon]] can be banned from it and little effort is made to balance it out. While it functioned similarly to the other tiers because there are enough Pokémon for it to do so, it is blatantly overcentralized around the biggest {{Game Breaker}}s in the franchise and the tournaments for it only exist because of RuleOfFun. While things ''can'' get banned from Ubers (which is essentially a full-game ban), they have to be so ridiculously abusive, unreasonably difficult to counter, and just plain brain-dead as to make leaving them unbanned toxic to the entire game.
** That
game.\\\
The
role has shifted to the ''Anything Goes'' tier, with the conversion of Ubers to a standard tier and [[VideoGame/PokemonRubyAndSapphire Mega Rayquaza]] '''being banned from Ubers'''[[note]]though Mega Gengar very nearly wound up there first, and there have been calls for Primal Groudon to go there as well[[/note]].
9th Jan '17 11:41:09 AM HasturHasturHastur
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Xurkitree has absolutely horrifying Special Attack plus Tail Glow, which raises it to truly obscene levels, and [[KillStreak Beast Boost]] will raise it even more with each kill. Unfortunately, that's literally all it has, as the rest of its stats are thoroughly mediocre at best, and there is literally no way for Beast Boost to boost anything other than Special Attack due to its stat distribution, preventing MinMaxing to help boost its Speed instead. The end result is a slow, fragile, and predictable Pokemon that can reduce things to ash but probably won't get to do so; while it currently is in the lower tiers of OU and can be effective with proper setup, general consensus is that there are plenty of less extreme but more dependable special sweepers out there.

to:

** Xurkitree has absolutely horrifying Special Attack plus Tail Glow, which raises it to truly obscene levels, and [[KillStreak Beast Boost]] will raise it even more with each kill. Unfortunately, that's literally all it has, as the rest of its stats are thoroughly mediocre at best, and there is literally no way for Beast Boost to boost anything other than Special Attack due to its stat distribution, preventing MinMaxing to help boost its Speed instead. The end result is a slow, fragile, and predictable Pokemon that can reduce things to ash but probably won't get to do so; while it currently is in the lower tiers of OU and can be effective with proper setup, general consensus is that there are plenty of less extreme but more dependable special sweepers wallbreakers out there.
8th Jan '17 2:29:33 PM HasturHasturHastur
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Xurkitree has absolutely horrifying Special Attack plus Tail Glow, which raises it to truly obscene levels, and [[KillStreak Beast Boost]] will raise it even more with each kill. Unfortunately, that's literally all it has, as the rest of its stats are thoroughly mediocre at best, and there is literally no way for Beast Boost to boost anything other than Special Attack due to its stat distribution, preventing MinMaxing to help boost its Speed instead. The end result is a slow, fragile, and predictable Pokemon that can reduce things to ash but probably won't get to do so; while it currently is in the lower tiers of OU and can be effective with proper setup, general consensus is that there are plenty of less extreme but more dependable special sweepers out there.
6th Jan '17 2:23:54 PM PDL
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Smogon does the vast majority of its work on battle simulators, with the subsequent analysis fitting more with those simulators than the actual game. This is easily [[JustifiedTrope justified]], though, as it's an extremely hard (not to mention [[LevelGrinding tedious]]) task to manually raise Pokémon to Level 100 in the actual games, especially because some mechanics, such as individual values ([=IVs=]), are beyond the Trainer's control. Also, some things in the game, such as [=TMs=] being [[TooAwesomeToUse one-time use]] in the games until Generation V, just make it a pain in the neck to make a good team in-game.

to:

Smogon does the vast majority of its work on battle simulators, with the subsequent analysis fitting more with those simulators than the actual game. This is easily [[JustifiedTrope justified]], though, as it's an extremely hard (not to mention [[LevelGrinding tedious]]) task to manually raise Pokémon to Level 100 in the actual games, especially because some mechanics, such as individual values ([=IVs=]), are mostly beyond the Trainer's control. Also, some things in the game, such as [=TMs=] being [[TooAwesomeToUse one-time use]] in the games until Generation V, or certain moves on certain Pokémon that are only available from Nintendo held events just make it a pain in the neck to make a good team in-game.
6th Jan '17 2:13:57 PM Luigifan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Smogon does the vast majority of its work on battle simulators, with the subsequent analysis fitting more with those simulators than the actual game. This is easily [[JustifiedTrope justified]], though, as it's an extremely hard (not to mention [[LevelGrinding tedious]]) task to manually raise Pokémon to Level 100 in the actual games, especially because some mechanics, such as individual values ([=IVs=]), are beyond the Trainer's control. Also, some things in the game, such as [=TMs=] was [[TooAwesomeToUse one-time use]] in the games until Generation V.

to:

Smogon does the vast majority of its work on battle simulators, with the subsequent analysis fitting more with those simulators than the actual game. This is easily [[JustifiedTrope justified]], though, as it's an extremely hard (not to mention [[LevelGrinding tedious]]) task to manually raise Pokémon to Level 100 in the actual games, especially because some mechanics, such as individual values ([=IVs=]), are beyond the Trainer's control. Also, some things in the game, such as [=TMs=] was being [[TooAwesomeToUse one-time use]] in the games until Generation V.
V, just make it a pain in the neck to make a good team in-game.



** The Endless Battle Clause exists to prevent setups like Funbro that have no actual strategic value and exist solely to create {{Unwinnable}} situations and provoke a ragequit. It's quite telling that even in Anything Goes, the Endless Battle Clause still exists.

to:

** The Endless Battle Clause exists to prevent setups like Funbro that have no actual strategic value and exist solely to create {{Unwinnable}} situations and provoke a ragequit.RageQuit. It's quite telling that even in Anything Goes, the Endless Battle Clause still exists.



** Many Legendary Pokémon tend to show up in the lower tiers. Articuno and Regice get this the worst; although both were initially able to pack a punch in their own respective metagames (Articuno with a 90% accurate Blizzard in a generation where a lucky freeze was equal to death and Regice in a generation before the physical / special split), they both lost vaiability over time, especially in the transition to the fourth generation as a result of growing power creep in addition to the ever present Stealth Rock.
** Kecleon is pretty much the definition of this trope. Kecleon's original ability Color Change caused it to change into the type of the attack of the move that hit it, which had some uses but was also an Achilles' Heel because of how easy it was to exploit with Pokémon that had great coverage options. Fast forward to Generation 6 and Kecleon gets a new ability that's much, much better in the form of Protean.

to:

** Many Legendary Pokémon tend to show up in the lower tiers. Articuno and Regice get this the worst; although both were initially able to pack a punch in their own respective metagames (Articuno with a 90% accurate Blizzard in a generation where a lucky freeze was equal to death and Regice in a generation before the physical / special split), they both lost vaiability over time, especially in the transition to the fourth generation as a result of growing power creep in addition to the ever present ever-present Stealth Rock.
** Kecleon is pretty much the definition of this trope. trope (except [[QuirkyBard with "awesome" replaced with "entertaining"]]). Kecleon's original ability Color Change caused it to change into the type of the attack of the move that hit it, which had some uses but was also an Achilles' Heel AchillesHeel because of how easy it was to exploit with Pokémon that had great coverage options. Fast forward to Generation 6 and Kecleon gets a new ability that's much, much better in the form of Protean.



** Tyrantrum learns Head Smash, one of the most powerful moves in the game, even gets STAB on it, and can negate the recoil via its Hidden Ability of Rock Head. While the thought of a draconic ''T. rex'' abusing a 150 base power STAB move sounds incredibly badass, Rock/Dragon as a defensive typing ''really'' takes the wind out of its sail. Ice, Fighting, Fairy, Dragon, and Ground are very common attacking types, and any Pokémon worth their salt that have these moves will likely also outspeed and OHKO Tyrantrum. It doesn't help that Steel-types, resisting both Rock and Dragon and dealing supereffective damage to Rock, were given an offensive buff this generation.

to:

** Tyrantrum learns Head Smash, one of the most powerful moves in the game, even gets STAB on it, and can negate the recoil via its Hidden Ability of Rock Head. While the thought of a draconic ''T. rex'' abusing a 150 base power STAB move sounds incredibly badass, Rock/Dragon as a defensive typing ''really'' takes the wind out of its sail. Ice, Fighting, Fairy, Dragon, and Ground are very common attacking types, and any Pokémon worth their salt that have these moves will likely also outspeed and OHKO Tyrantrum. It doesn't help that Steel-types, resisting both Rock and Dragon and dealing supereffective super-effective damage to Rock, were given an offensive buff this generation.



* CharacterTiers: Naturally, Smogon is effectively the TropeMaker for the series. Justified in that all Pokémon are most definitely ''not'' created equal, and the tiers ''had'' to be established so that people could use the weaker Pokémon without being humiliatingly trampled over. In an interesting example of tier construction, tiers are primarily determined by the idea that the better Pokémon will be the more widely used ones -- in a sense, therefore, Smogon and its tiers really do live up to the series' long-preached ideal of success through using the Pokémon you like. [[invoked]]

to:

* CharacterTiers: Naturally, Smogon is effectively the TropeMaker for the series. Justified in that all Pokémon are most definitely ''not'' created equal, and the tiers ''had'' to be established so that people could use the weaker Pokémon without being humiliatingly trampled over. In an interesting example of tier construction, tiers are primarily determined by the idea that the better Pokémon will be the more widely used ones -- in a sense, therefore, Smogon and its tiers really do live up to the series' long-preached ideal of success through using the Pokémon you like. [[note]]That said, there are some Pokémon that manage to be next-to-useless even in the lowest tier.[[/note]] [[invoked]]



** Lower tiera occasionally use the pre-evolutions of high tier Pokémon to fulfill similar jobs. For example, Fletchindler is the RU tier's version of OU's Talonflame, using priority Flying attacks to revenge kill targets.

to:

** Lower tiera tiers occasionally use the pre-evolutions of high tier Pokémon to fulfill similar jobs. For example, Fletchindler is the RU tier's version of OU's Talonflame, using priority Flying attacks to revenge kill targets.



* DifficultButAwesome: Choice items. Depending on which one your Mon has equipped, they get a permanent 50% boost to their Attack (Choice Band), Special Attack (Choice Specs), or Speed (Choice Scarf). The catch? [[AttackAttackAttack You can only use]] [[SpamAttack the first move you selected]] [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer each time you switch in]]. Band and Specs are usually given to Mons to [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown supplement their ability to hit the opponent hard or break down walls]], while the Choice Scarf lets you outspeed one of your opponent's Mons that you otherwise couldn't deal with or turn your MightyGlacier into a LightningBruiser with the speed boost.

to:

* DifficultButAwesome: Choice items. Depending on which one your Mon has equipped, they get a permanent 50% boost to their Attack (Choice Band), Special Attack (Choice Specs), or Speed (Choice Scarf). The catch? [[AttackAttackAttack You can only use]] [[SpamAttack the first move you selected]] [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer each time you switch in]]. Band and Specs are usually given to Mons to [[NoHoldsBarredBeatdown supplement their ability to hit the opponent hard or break down walls]], while the Choice Scarf lets you outspeed one some of your opponent's Mons that you otherwise couldn't deal with or turn your MightyGlacier into a LightningBruiser with the speed boost.



** The Swagger Clause prevents use of the move Swagger. This clause came about because of Klefki abusing priority Swagger and Thunder Wave, combined with Foul Play, to wreck pretty much '''everything''' unless the RandomNumberGod felt like actually allowing its opponent to attack. Time will tell if Gen VII's nerf to Prankster (namely being shut down by Dark-types) will make this clause redundant... though considering that Klefki's a ''Fairy-type'', and therefore sending a Dark-type up against it is just ''asking'' to be humiliated, probably not.
** The Baton Pass Clause limits the player to one user of the move Baton Pass on each team. This clause came about in Generation VI due to the discovery of several powerful team combinations that required multiple users of the move.

to:

** The Swagger Clause prevents use of the move Swagger. This clause came about because of Klefki abusing priority Swagger and Thunder Wave, combined with Foul Play, to wreck pretty much '''everything''' unless the RandomNumberGod felt like [[LuckBasedMission actually allowing its opponent to attack. attack]]. Time will tell if Gen VII's nerf to Prankster (namely being shut down by Dark-types) and to ActionInitiative in general (Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, and Psychic Terrain) will make this clause redundant... though considering that Klefki's a ''Fairy-type'', and therefore sending a Dark-type up against it is just ''asking'' to be humiliated, probably not.
** The Baton Pass Clause limits the player to one user of the move Baton Pass on each team. This clause came about in Generation VI due to the discovery of several powerful overly-powerful team combinations that required multiple users of the move.move, and shutting it down being something of a crapshoot (requiring Haze or a SwitchOutMove to pull off)



*** Kyurem initially averted the trope. It has all the flavor characteristics of an Olympus Mon, including a BST of over 600 and similarities with the main duo for its generation, but due to its defensively fail-tastic Ice-typing, redundant [=STABs=] of Ice and Dragon, only ''okay'' speed, a terrible signature move, and simply being outclassed by the now-legal Latios and Garchomp, it failed to really go anywhere but Underused. However, with the other truly "amazing" Dragon-types -- Dragonite, Salamence, Latios, Latias, Garchomp, Haxorus, Hydreigon -- locked away in higher tiers, Scizor and Conkeldurr not there to make its life hell, hail being a much better weather in Gen V's UU, and 125/90/90 defenses suddenly getting a LOT stronger relative to the tier's average power level, it was free to crush the competition with STAB Draco Meteors and Blizzards to its heart's content. Kyurem was banished to the Borderline tier (i.e. UU's "Uber Tier") unanimously, playing the trope straight.

to:

*** Kyurem initially averted the trope. It has all the flavor characteristics of an Olympus Mon, including a BST of over 600 and similarities with the main duo for its generation, but due to its defensively fail-tastic Ice-typing, redundant [=STABs=] of Ice and Dragon, only ''okay'' speed, a terrible signature move, and simply being outclassed by the now-legal Latios and Garchomp, it failed to really go anywhere but Underused. However, with the other truly "amazing" Dragon-types -- Dragonite, Salamence, Latios, Latias, Garchomp, Haxorus, and Hydreigon -- locked away in higher tiers, Scizor and Conkeldurr not there to make its life hell, hail being a much better weather in Gen V's UU, and 125/90/90 defenses suddenly getting a LOT ''lot'' stronger relative to the tier's average power level, it was free to crush the competition with STAB Draco Meteors and Blizzards to its heart's content. Kyurem was banished to the Borderline tier (i.e. UU's "Uber Tier") unanimously, playing the trope straight.



*** Swagger has been banned to Ubers, mainly due to Pokémon with the Ability Prankster (mainly Klefki and Thundurus) abusing it with Thunder Wave to prevent the targeting from doing anything most of the time, and then using [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]] (which uses the opponent's Attack stat to deal damage) to hit HARD. It [[LuckBasedMission forced matches to be determined by]] [[RandomNumberGenerator the RNG]] with the only universal way of beating it being to [[InsaneTrollLogic "outplay]] [[MemeticMutation the coinflip"]].
*** Aegislash was one of the most centralising thing in the early sixth generation metagame, next only to Mega-Kangaskhan. Though not as tyrannical as Kangaskhan, Pokémon still rose and fell simply on ground of how it handles Aegislash. Many Pokémon, such as Gardevoir, Medicham, Starmie, and Jirachi, were severely held back by its dominating presence. The reason for this occurrence is that, as a Pokémon, Aegislash had every positive trait that one could ask for. Its signature Ability, Stance Change[[note]]switches its attacking stats with its defensive stats when using protecting moves, and vice-versa when using offensive moves[[/note]], effectively made it a 720 BST Pokémon and forced 50/50 situations ''just by being there''. Because of this and its highly versatile movepool, it could run every conceivable kind of set possible -- physical, mixed, special, even stall, all with different counters. To top all off, it has one of the best defensive types in the game, and was a major part of the cancerous hazard-offence teams in the early Generation 6 metagame.

to:

*** Swagger has been banned to Ubers, mainly due to Pokémon with the Ability Prankster (mainly Klefki and Thundurus) abusing it with Thunder Wave to prevent the targeting from doing anything most of the time, and then using [[HoistByHisOwnPetard Foul Play]] (which uses the opponent's Attack stat to deal damage) to hit HARD.''hard''. It [[LuckBasedMission forced matches to be determined by]] [[RandomNumberGenerator the RNG]] with the only universal way of beating it being to [[InsaneTrollLogic "outplay]] [[MemeticMutation the coinflip"]].
*** Aegislash was one of the most centralising thing in the early sixth generation metagame, next only to Mega-Kangaskhan. Though not as tyrannical as Kangaskhan, Pokémon still rose and fell simply on ground of how it handles well they could handle Aegislash. Many Pokémon, such as Gardevoir, Medicham, Starmie, and Jirachi, were severely held back by its dominating presence. The reason for this occurrence is that, as a Pokémon, Aegislash had every positive trait that one could ask for. Its signature Ability, Stance Change[[note]]switches its attacking stats with its defensive stats when using protecting moves, and vice-versa when using offensive moves[[/note]], effectively made it a 720 BST Pokémon and forced 50/50 situations ''just by being there''. Because of this and its highly versatile movepool, it could run every conceivable kind of set possible -- physical, mixed, special, even stall, all with different counters. To top all off, it has one of the best defensive types in the game, and was a major part of the cancerous hazard-offence teams in the early Generation 6 metagame.



*** Mega Salamence drew comparisons with M-Kangaskhan for many of the same reasons. It has boundless physical bulk[[note]]surviving a Terrakion's Stone Edge among other things[[/note]] helped even further by Intimidate before mega evolving, absurdly powerful Aerilate-boosted attacks, and just the right movepool to cover every conceivable check. M-Salamence subverts this trope, however, currently being ranked S in Ubers alongside M-Gengar.

to:

*** Mega Salamence drew comparisons with M-Kangaskhan for many of the same reasons. It has boundless physical bulk[[note]]surviving a Terrakion's Stone Edge among other things[[/note]] helped even further by Intimidate before mega evolving, Mega Evolving, absurdly powerful Aerilate-boosted attacks, and just the right movepool to cover every conceivable check. M-Salamence subverts this trope, however, currently being ranked S in Ubers alongside M-Gengar.



** Generation 4 introduced the very common Stealth Rock, which inflicted continual rock damage to the opposing team. This was especially critical to Fire and Flying Types because they became less viable competitively [[note]]Unless they had enough bulk or managed to serve another team function[[/note]], since they would lose 25% of their health upon switching in.

to:

** Generation 4 introduced the very common Stealth Rock, which inflicted continual rock damage to the opposing team. This was especially critical to Fire and Flying Types because they became less viable competitively [[note]]Unless [[note]]unless they had enough bulk or managed to serve another team function[[/note]], since they would lose 25% of their health upon switching in.



** The classic example: [[OneHitPointWonder Shedinja]]. It's more or less useless in lower tiers because itS vulnerability to stealth rock means it usually faints on the turn it enters. In Ubers, where stealth rock is often foregone for more turns to attack, and the leading Pokémon in the tier (Kyogre) only had one (non-competitive) move that can damage Shedinja, it makes for an effective surprise weapon.

to:

** The classic example: [[OneHitPointWonder Shedinja]]. It's more or less useless in lower tiers because itS its vulnerability to stealth rock Stealth Rock (and passive damage in general) means it usually faints on the turn it enters. In Ubers, where stealth rock Stealth Rock is often foregone for more turns to attack, and the leading Pokémon in the tier (Kyogre) only had one (non-competitive) move that can damage Shedinja, it makes for an effective surprise weapon.



* LimitedMoveArsenal: Or as it's known on the site, "4-Moveslot Sydrome". And this is an ExploitedTrope. Contrary to the name, a Pokémon that suffers from this is considered a ''good'' thing. A Pokémon with 4-Moveslot Syndrome (4MS) means that it has more than a few viable moves that make it good for competitive battling outside of its STAB moves. Moves that generally support itself and covers its own weaknesses. This makes the Pokémon extremely hard to counter reliably as the opponent is forced to predict moves that are run on the Pokémon.

to:

* LimitedMoveArsenal: Or as it's known on the site, "4-Moveslot Sydrome". And this is an ExploitedTrope. Contrary to the name, a Pokémon that suffers from this is considered a ''good'' thing. A Pokémon with 4-Moveslot Syndrome (4MS) means that it has more than a few viable moves that make it good for competitive battling outside of its STAB moves. Moves that generally support itself and covers its own weaknesses. This makes the Pokémon extremely hard to counter reliably reliably, as the opponent is forced to predict moves that are run on the Pokémon.



* PoorPredictableRock: Many Pokémon only have one thing they can do well and tend to be obvious about it. [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer That being said, some are still very good due to how well they do that one thing]].

to:

* PoorPredictableRock: Many Pokémon only have one thing they can do well and tend to be obvious about it. [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer That being said, some are still very good due to how well they do that one thing]].thing.]]



*** Trapping abilities. While trapping moves like Mean Look, Wrap, and their variants have fallen by the wayside due to the faster-paced metagame[[note]]Opponents are much more likely to switch out of an unfavorable matchup than stick around long enough for such a move to connect to its intended target[[/note]], abilities like Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, and ''especially'' Shadow Tag remain incredibly useful for the same reasons as entry hazards. To illustrate, Shadow Tag almost single-handedly turned Wobbuffet from a JokeCharacter to a GameBreaker (before Gen V, at least), and it's a large part of why Mega Gengar is considered a GameBreaker in Gen VI.

to:

*** Trapping abilities. While trapping moves like Mean Look, Wrap, and their variants have fallen by the wayside due to the faster-paced metagame[[note]]Opponents metagame[[note]]ppponents are much more likely to switch out of an unfavorable matchup than stick around long enough for such a move to connect to its intended target[[/note]], abilities like Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, and ''especially'' Shadow Tag remain incredibly useful for the same reasons as entry hazards. To illustrate, Shadow Tag almost single-handedly turned Wobbuffet from a JokeCharacter to a GameBreaker (before Gen V, at least), and it's a large part of why Mega Gengar is considered a GameBreaker in Gen VI.



*** Pokémon that are {{Mighty Glacier}}s or {{Stone Wall}}s. In-game, players can just level grind a couple of team members to overpower the ArtificialIntelligence with brute force and use items to heal crippled[=/=]downed members, which is much easier to accomplish with {{Glass Cannon}}s due to their strength and speed. In player vs. player matches, it doesn't work this way: if you want to switch in something, you have to either let your current Pokémon be knocked out or give your opponent a free shot at whatever you're bringing in (barring a SwitchOutMove, of course). In such an environment, highly defensive Pokémon are much more useful, as they can typically take a hit or two and still survive well enough to provide support for the attackers.

to:

*** Pokémon that are {{Mighty Glacier}}s or {{Stone Wall}}s. In-game, players can just level grind {{level grind}} a couple of team members to overpower the ArtificialIntelligence with brute force and use items to heal crippled[=/=]downed members, which is much easier to accomplish with {{Glass Cannon}}s due to their strength and speed. In player vs. player matches, it doesn't work this way: if you want to switch in something, you have to either let your current Pokémon be knocked out or give your opponent a free shot at whatever you're bringing in (barring a SwitchOutMove, of course). In such an environment, highly defensive Pokémon are much more useful, as they can typically take a hit or two and still survive well enough to provide support for the attackers.



*** Since the AI almost never use Status moves in favor of brute force, Taunt is incredibly impractical in single player modes. Even if they do have status moves in their moveset, since the Pokemons and moveset they use are fixed, it is generally better to abuse type and level advantages against them. But in multiplayer, however, status moves are one of the leading gears of the metagame, and as such, for many offensive or anti-stall teams, Taunt ranks among one of the best moves to directly prevent them from using status moves to cripple your team.
* SadisticChoice: Mega Gengar's specialty and why it was banned. It works like this: Mega Gengar uses Perish Song[[note]]a move that will make both Pokémon on the field faint in three turns. This normally forces a switch, but Shadow Tag means that that isn't going to happen[[/note]]. It would be tempting to kill it directly, but it can also use [[TakingYouWithMe Destiny Bond]]. Walling it is also a non-option, as most walls are dispatched with Perish Song. Even forcing it out with Roar and such will not get rid of the Perish Song counter, making you lose momentum. Baton Pass and Volt-Turn are the best options to escape, and this is only buying time instead of eliminating the threat. Ghost-type Pokémon can innately escape trapping moves and abilities, however -- the problem with that is that Gengar is itself a Ghost-type Pokémon with an absurd amount of Special Attack to boot. There's no reliable way to deal with this setup, and checking it is largely a matter of dumb luck and/or the M-Gengar user being dumb as a sandbag.
* ShownTheirWork: The simulator keeps track of what Pokémon are used the most and the moves/stat spreads are most commonly found on them.
* SkillGateCharacter: Doublade with Eviolite in Under-Used (UU). Thanks to Doublade's great Attack stat, incredible coverage, excellent Steel/Ghost typing, and Eviolite boosts its Defenses by 50% since it hasn't fully evolved, players who are new to the UU tier often build teams that can't even hurt Doublade, let alone take it out. However, Doublade's poor Special Defense and Speed stats and vulnerability to the ever common move Knock Off (which doesn't just hit the sword super-effectively, but also removes Eviolite from Doublade) can be taken advantage of quite easily by someone who knows what they're doing, and cause it to be viewed as a perfectly manageable (albeit still threatening) Pokémon in higher level play.
* ThatOneRule: Speed is calculated at the beginning of the turn and not directly after a change to speed. While this normally does not pose a problem, as it typically takes a turn to use a speed-altering move, a Pokémon that Mega Evolves can suddenly seem too under-speedy against the opponent, because speed on that turn is still determined using pre-Mega Evolution stats.

to:

*** Since the AI almost never use Status moves in favor of brute force, Taunt is incredibly impractical in single player modes. Even if they do have status moves in their moveset, since the Pokemons Pokémon and moveset movesets they use are fixed, it is generally better to abuse type and level advantages against them. But in multiplayer, however, status moves are one of the leading gears of the metagame, and as such, for many offensive or anti-stall teams, Taunt ranks among one of the best moves to directly prevent them from using status moves to cripple your team.
* SadisticChoice: Mega Gengar's specialty and why it was banned. It works like this: Mega Gengar uses Perish Song[[note]]a move that will make both Pokémon on the field faint in three turns. This normally forces a switch, but Shadow Tag means that that isn't going to happen[[/note]]. It would be tempting to kill it directly, but it can also use [[TakingYouWithMe Destiny Bond]]. Walling it is also a non-option, as most walls are dispatched with Perish Song. Even forcing it out with Roar and such will not get rid of the Perish Song counter, making you lose momentum. Baton Pass and Volt-Turn are the best options to escape, and this is only buying time instead of eliminating the threat. Ghost-type Pokémon can innately escape trapping moves and abilities, however -- abilities; however, the problem with that is that Gengar is itself a Ghost-type Pokémon with an absurd amount of Special Attack to boot. There's no reliable way to deal with this setup, and checking it is largely a matter of dumb luck and/or the M-Gengar user being dumb as a sandbag.
* ShownTheirWork: The simulator keeps track of what Pokémon are used the most and the moves/stat spreads that are most commonly found on them.
* SkillGateCharacter: Doublade with Eviolite in Under-Used (UU). Thanks to Doublade's great Attack stat, incredible coverage, excellent Steel/Ghost typing, and Eviolite boosts boosting its Defenses by 50% since it hasn't fully evolved, players who are new to the UU tier often build teams that can't even hurt Doublade, let alone take it out. However, Doublade's poor Special Defense and Speed stats and vulnerability to the ever common move Knock Off (which doesn't just hit the sword super-effectively, but also removes Eviolite from Doublade) can be taken advantage of quite easily by someone who knows what they're doing, and cause it to be viewed as a perfectly manageable (albeit still threatening) Pokémon in higher level higher-level play.
* ThatOneRule: Speed is calculated at the beginning of the turn and not directly after a change to speed. While this normally does not pose a problem, as it typically takes a turn to use a speed-altering move, a Pokémon that Mega Evolves can suddenly seem too under-speedy against the opponent, because speed on that turn is still determined using pre-Mega Evolution stats. This was changed in Generation 7.



** Attacks that don't deal damage and only reduce stats, since the opponent can just swap out or will just continue to beat on you anyway.
** {{Status Buff}}s that raise only defensive stats when you're not running a [[GradualGrinder Baton Pass team]], again [[RunningGag since your opponent can just beat on you until you faint]] or [[NiceJobBreakingItHero use the opportunity to bring in their]] GlassCannon [[NiceJobBreakingItHero and set up in front of you]]. [[SwitchOutMove Or force you to switch out with Whirlwind/Roar/Dragon Tail]].

to:

** Attacks that don't deal damage and only reduce stats, since the opponent can just swap out or will [[AttackAttackAttavk just continue to beat on you anyway.
anyway]].
** {{Status Buff}}s that raise only defensive stats when you're not running a [[GradualGrinder Baton Pass team]], again [[RunningGag since your opponent can just beat on you until you faint]] or [[NiceJobBreakingItHero use the opportunity to bring in their]] GlassCannon [[NiceJobBreakingItHero and set up in front of you]]. [[SwitchOutMove Or force you to switch out with Whirlwind/Roar/Dragon Tail]]. Or use [[StatusBuffDispel Haze or Clear Smog]].



** Whitney's Difficulty was "12/10", due to how infamously hard her fight can be (the writer even goes on a 2 paragraph rant about it). Her Coolness got a "wahhh/10" for her crying after being beaten.

to:

** Whitney's Difficulty was "12/10", due to how [[ThatOneBoss infamously hard her fight can be be]] (the writer even goes on a 2 paragraph rant about it). Her Coolness got a "wahhh/10" for [[SoreLoser her crying after being beaten.beaten]].



** The majority of [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue26/infuriating_pokemon "Top Ten Most Infuriating Pokémon In-Game'']] is about specific instances of this and why players find them frustrating, such as Misty's Starmie in ''Red and Blue'' being extremely powerful for the point in time you fight it, or being unable to weaken Regigigas in ''Platinum'' since it's at level 1 (thus you'll probably make it faint) so you're forced to throw Poké Balls at it and pray the RandomNumberGod will eventually let you catch it.[[note]]Though the writer neglects to mention what that you could use [[HPToOne False Swipe]] to weaken it and make catching it easier.[[/note]]

to:

** The majority of [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue26/infuriating_pokemon "Top Ten Most Infuriating Pokémon In-Game'']] is about specific instances of this and why players find them frustrating, such as Misty's Starmie in ''Red and Blue'' being extremely powerful for the point in time you fight it, or being unable to weaken Regigigas in ''Platinum'' since it's at level 1 (thus you'll probably make it faint) so you're forced to throw Poké Balls at it and pray the RandomNumberGod will eventually let you catch it.[[note]]Though the writer neglects to mention what that you could use [[HPToOne False Swipe]] to weaken it and make catching it easier. Good luck fitting that on your team when you need all three Regis to wake it up, though.[[/note]]



** A few Trou du Cul threads are this--and are subsequently mocked by the staff.

to:

** A few Trou du Cul threads are this--and this -- and are subsequently mocked by the staff.



* {{Unperson}}: The Viability Ranking threads (think a tier list ''within'' a tier list) will occasionally have Pokémon blacklisted from being discussed [[OvershadowedByAwesome if they are outclassed by something else available]] or because the people talking about them wouldn't shut up and pissed off the mods.

to:

* {{Unperson}}: The Viability Ranking threads (think a tier list ''within'' a tier list) will occasionally have Pokémon [[WriterRevolt blacklisted from being discussed discussed]] [[OvershadowedByAwesome if they are outclassed by something else available]] or because the people talking about them wouldn't shut up and pissed off the mods.
5th Dec '16 6:24:31 PM Luigifan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The simulator itself, since it removes the need for breeding, Pokémon catching, and LevelGrinding - ultimately just letting you battle.

to:

** The simulator itself, since it removes the need for breeding, Pokémon catching, and LevelGrinding - -- ultimately just letting you battle.



** Absol has a wide movepool. Unfortunately, Absol's Special Attack is rather mediocre, which is a let-down considering that Absol learns a wide variety of special attacks. Mega Absol fixes most of these problems by gaining a fantastic Ability, vastly-improved Special Attack and Speed--its defenses were not altered, though.

to:

** Absol has a wide movepool. Unfortunately, Absol's Special Attack is rather mediocre, which is a let-down considering that Absol learns a wide variety of special attacks. Mega Absol fixes most of these problems by gaining a fantastic Ability, vastly-improved Special Attack and Speed--its Speed -- its defenses were not altered, though.



* BaitAndSwitch: Literally! Double Switching is a tactic that involves switching in a Pokémon, them immediately switching it out with the hope that your opponent just sent out that Pokémon's counter, forcing it to deal with ''its'' counter you just sent out. Best used when the Pokémon you're trying to bait out is weak to Pursuit, since you can force a HeadsIWinTailsYouLose situation by trapping it.
* BatmanGambit: Some sets have moves that are meant to hit Mons that would likely switch into wall you, such as Earthquake on Latios to lure out and hit Heatran.

to:

* BaitAndSwitch: Literally! Double Switching is a tactic that involves switching in a Pokémon, them then immediately switching it out with the hope that your opponent just sent out that Pokémon's counter, forcing it to deal with ''its'' counter you just sent out. Best used when the Pokémon you're trying to bait out is weak to Pursuit, since you can force a HeadsIWinTailsYouLose situation by trapping it.
* BatmanGambit: Some sets have moves that are meant to hit Mons that would likely switch into in to wall you, such as Earthquake on Latios to lure out and hit Heatran.



** In the early sixth generation, Deoxys Defense Form and Bisharp worked extremely well together. Once Deoxys sets up entry hazards, the opponent is pressured to use Defog, which can then be absorbed by Bisharp to double its Attack and sweep the opposition. And then Deoxys Defense form was banned back to Uber.

to:

** In the early sixth generation, Deoxys Defense Form and Bisharp worked extremely well together. Once Deoxys sets up entry hazards, the opponent is pressured to use Defog, which can then be absorbed by Bisharp to double its Attack and sweep the opposition. And then Deoxys Defense form was banned back to Uber.Ubers.



* CharacterTiers: Naturally, Smogon is effectively the TropeMaker for the series. Justified in that all Pokémon are most definitely ''not'' created equal, and the tiers ''had'' to be established so that people could use the weaker Pokémon without being humiliatingly trampled over. In an interesting example of tier construction, tiers are primarily determined by the idea that the better Pokémon will be the more widely used ones--in a sense, therefore, Smogon and its tiers really do live up to the series' long-preached ideal of success through using the Pokémon you like. [[invoked]]

to:

* CharacterTiers: Naturally, Smogon is effectively the TropeMaker for the series. Justified in that all Pokémon are most definitely ''not'' created equal, and the tiers ''had'' to be established so that people could use the weaker Pokémon without being humiliatingly trampled over. In an interesting example of tier construction, tiers are primarily determined by the idea that the better Pokémon will be the more widely used ones--in ones -- in a sense, therefore, Smogon and its tiers really do live up to the series' long-preached ideal of success through using the Pokémon you like. [[invoked]]



** Lower Tiers occansionally use the pre-evolutions of high tier Pokémon to fulfill similar jobs. For example, Fletchindler is the RU tier's version of OU's Talonflame, using priority Flying attacks to revenge kill targets.

to:

** Lower Tiers occansionally tiera occasionally use the pre-evolutions of high tier Pokémon to fulfill similar jobs. For example, Fletchindler is the RU tier's version of OU's Talonflame, using priority Flying attacks to revenge kill targets.



** Charizard's Mega Evolutions have extremely different checks and counters (though M-Altaria and some Gyarados can wall both). although the item it runs can be guessed with a certain degree of accuracy, determining which one it is with absolute certainty is seldom easy until it reveals itself.

to:

** Charizard's Mega Evolutions have extremely different checks and counters (though M-Altaria and some Gyarados can wall both). although Although the item it runs can be guessed with a certain degree of accuracy, determining which one it is with absolute certainty is seldom easy until it reveals itself.



** This is also how "overcentralization" is defined. If a certain Pokemon or strategy is so overwhelmingly effective that multiple slots or entire teams have to be devoted to dealing with it (to the detriment of their effectiveness as a whole), ''especially'' if it forces people to use very obscure and narrowly-tailored Pokemon and strategies that just happen to counter it but are more or less completely useless otherwise (as opposed to just niche), a strong case for a suspect test can be made.
* ADayInTheLimeLight: The main thing that separates their CharacterTiers system from others; each tier is set up so that the Pokémon in higher tiers cannot participate and give the lower tier Pokémon an environment they can shine it.

to:

** This is also how "overcentralization" is defined. If a certain Pokemon Pokémon or strategy is so overwhelmingly effective that multiple slots or entire teams have to be devoted to dealing with it (to the detriment of their effectiveness as a whole), ''especially'' if it forces people to use very obscure and narrowly-tailored Pokemon Pokémon and strategies that just happen to counter it but are more or less completely useless otherwise (as opposed to just niche), a strong case for a suspect test can be made.
* ADayInTheLimeLight: The main thing that separates their CharacterTiers system from others; each tier is set up so that the Pokémon in higher tiers cannot participate and give the lower tier Pokémon an environment they can shine it.in.



* DidntSeeThatComing: Using Pokémon from the Rarely-Used (RU) or Never-Used (NU) tier can catch foes off guard in the Over-Used (OU) tier, as they might know usually follow what Pokémon from those tiers run for their sets as closely and sometimes have little to no idea on how to counter them. The same goes for using common Pokémon in a certain tier, but with an unusual moveset.

to:

* DidntSeeThatComing: Using Pokémon from the Rarely-Used (RU) or Never-Used (NU) tier can catch foes off guard in the Over-Used (OU) tier, as they might know usually not follow what Pokémon from those tiers run for their sets as closely and sometimes have little to no idea on how to counter them. The same goes for using common Pokémon in a certain tier, but with an unusual moveset.



** Unlike the official battle format, there is no Item clause, thus allowing more than two Pokemon to hold the same items.
** The Sleep Clause prevents players from putting more than one of the opponent's Pokémon to sleep at a time. While this clause has existed since Gen I (and was even invented by Game Freak), it became even more important in Gen V because the mechanics for sleep were changed. Gen V made it so the sleep counter is reset when the sleeping Pokémon is switched out, which means players could theoretically put their opponent to sleep, force them to switch with Whirlwind or Roar, and repeat the process until every one of the opponents' Pokémon are asleep. The player could then use entry hazards and Whirlwind or Roar to slowly beat the opponent to death without them being able to retaliate. Not applied to Doubles as of Gen VI due to not being as easy to abuse.

to:

** Unlike the official battle format, there is no Item clause, thus allowing more than two Pokemon Pokémon to hold the same items.
** The Sleep Clause prevents players from putting more than one of the opponent's Pokémon to sleep at a time. While this clause has existed since Gen I (and was even invented by Game Freak), it became even more important in Gen V because the mechanics for sleep were changed. Gen V made it so the sleep counter is reset when the sleeping Pokémon is switched out, which means players could theoretically put their opponent to sleep, force them to switch with Whirlwind or Roar, and repeat the process until every one of the opponents' opponent's Pokémon are asleep. The player could then use entry hazards and Whirlwind or Roar to slowly beat the opponent to death without them being able to retaliate. Not applied to Doubles as of Gen VI due to not being as easy to abuse.



** The Endless Battle Clause prevents people from using certain moveset and item combinations that create {{Unwinnable}} situations that can be infinitely prolonged until someone disconnects. Because this strategy is generally used purely to troll and piss people off, it is the ''only'' clause that Anything Goes kept. This isn' that much an issue in the official battle format as there's timer for multiplayer battles.
** The Swagger Clause prevents use of the move Swagger.

to:

** The Endless Battle Clause prevents people from using certain moveset and item combinations that create {{Unwinnable}} situations that can be infinitely prolonged until someone disconnects. Because this strategy is generally used purely to troll and piss people off, it is the ''only'' clause that Anything Goes kept. This isn' isn't that much an issue in the official battle format as there's a timer for multiplayer battles.
** The Swagger Clause prevents use of the move Swagger. This clause came about because of Klefki abusing priority Swagger and Thunder Wave, combined with Foul Play, to wreck pretty much '''everything''' unless the RandomNumberGod felt like actually allowing its opponent to attack. Time will tell if Gen VII's nerf to Prankster (namely being shut down by Dark-types) will make this clause redundant... though considering that Klefki's a ''Fairy-type'', and therefore sending a Dark-type up against it is just ''asking'' to be humiliated, probably not.



*** Subversions do occur. Garchomp is a legitimate threat in the Gen IV Ubers' metagame due to its speed and power, and Latias and Latios are able to outspeed and KO many great threats.

to:

*** Subversions do occur. Garchomp is a legitimate threat in the Gen IV Ubers' Ubers metagame due to its speed and power, and Latias and Latios are able to outspeed and KO many great threats.



*** Kyurem initially averted the trope. It has all the flavor characteristics of an Olympus Mon, including a BST of over 600 and similarities with the main duo for its generation, but due to its defensively fail-tastic Ice-typing, redundant [=STABs=] of Ice and Dragon, only ''okay'' speed, a terrible signature move, and simply being outclassed by the now-legal Latios and Garchomp, it failed to really go anywhere but Underused. However, with the other truly "amazing" Dragon-types--Dragonite, Salamence, Latios, Latias, Garchomp, Haxorus, Hydreigon--locked away in higher tiers, Scizor and Conkeldurr not there to make its life hell, hail being a much better weather in Gen V's UU, and 125/90/90 defenses suddenly getting a LOT stronger relative to the tier's average power level, it was free to crush the competition with STAB Draco Meteors and Blizzards to its heart's content. Kyurem was banished to the Borderline tier (i.e. UU's "Uber Tier") unanimously, playing the trope straight.
*** Black Kyurem averted this trope in a similar way. It started in the Ubers tier; base 700 total stats and an outstanding base 170 Attack stat made it an intimidating force that was capable of spamming Outrage and 2HKOing most of the tier. However, like its normal forme, its bad typing and only ''okay'' speed made it easy to play around by switching a Steel-type into a locked Outrage or using super effective priority and Stealth Rock to whittle down its HP. This, plus its horrible physical movepool, caused it to be kicked downstairs to OU. In an interesting subversion, people initially believed it to be bad even in OU, but it was later found to be [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3473637 one of the best Pokémon in the tier]]--essentially fulfilling what Game Freak tried to do with [[BlessedWithSuck Slaking and Regigigas]]. Its mixed attacking set essentially [=2HKOs=] all of OU, and ''despite'' its bad movepool, it has at least six viable sets to run, none of which can be countered all at once. Indeed, at the end of the ''Black and White'' metagame, some people were starting to consider it broken yet again.

to:

*** Kyurem initially averted the trope. It has all the flavor characteristics of an Olympus Mon, including a BST of over 600 and similarities with the main duo for its generation, but due to its defensively fail-tastic Ice-typing, redundant [=STABs=] of Ice and Dragon, only ''okay'' speed, a terrible signature move, and simply being outclassed by the now-legal Latios and Garchomp, it failed to really go anywhere but Underused. However, with the other truly "amazing" Dragon-types--Dragonite, Dragon-types -- Dragonite, Salamence, Latios, Latias, Garchomp, Haxorus, Hydreigon--locked Hydreigon -- locked away in higher tiers, Scizor and Conkeldurr not there to make its life hell, hail being a much better weather in Gen V's UU, and 125/90/90 defenses suddenly getting a LOT stronger relative to the tier's average power level, it was free to crush the competition with STAB Draco Meteors and Blizzards to its heart's content. Kyurem was banished to the Borderline tier (i.e. UU's "Uber Tier") unanimously, playing the trope straight.
*** Black Kyurem averted this trope in a similar way. It started in the Ubers tier; base 700 total stats and an outstanding base 170 Attack stat made it an intimidating force that was capable of spamming Outrage and 2HKOing most of the tier. However, like its normal forme, its bad typing and only ''okay'' speed made it easy to play around by switching a Steel-type into a locked Outrage or using super effective priority and Stealth Rock to whittle down its HP. This, plus its horrible physical movepool, caused it to be kicked downstairs to OU. In an interesting subversion, people initially believed it to be bad even in OU, but it was later found to be [[http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3473637 one of the best Pokémon in the tier]]--essentially tier]] -- essentially fulfilling what Game Freak tried to do with [[BlessedWithSuck Slaking and Regigigas]]. Its mixed attacking set essentially [=2HKOs=] all of OU, and ''despite'' its bad movepool, it has at least six viable sets to run, none of which can be countered all at once. Indeed, at the end of the ''Black and White'' metagame, some people were starting to consider it broken yet again.



*** Like Mega Gengar, Mega Kangaskhan was quickbanned by Smogon; its ability effectively gave her a Base Attack of 217, could break Substitutes, Focus Sashes, and Sturdy, and made the effect of Power-Up Punch activate twice so it could double its attack in one turn with a move that could not be Taunted. Before her ban, her mere presence forced players to [[CripplingOverspecialization to run sub-par teams dedicated entirely to taking it down]], since she had no reliable counters.
*** Lucarionite, which allows Lucario to mega-evolve. Although it was not as unreasonably strong as Mega Kangaskhan, with Adaptability-boosted [=STABs=], more speed than Latios, and no less than ''three'' forms of priority, Mega Lucario was still a force of nature. What really pushed it over the edge was its unpredictability; it could run physical, special, and even mixed sets, each with different coverage moves, making it basically impossible to counter. It has been fittingly compared to a Choice Band Terrakion with a Choice Specs Keldeo strapped to its back for special attack and Starmie for shoes--and that's unboosted! Like Gengar, regular Lucario can still be used, however.

to:

*** Like Mega Gengar, Mega Kangaskhan was quickbanned by Smogon; its ability effectively gave her a Base Attack of 217, could break Substitutes, Focus Sashes, and Sturdy, and made the effect of Power-Up Punch activate twice so it could double its attack in one turn with a move that could not be Taunted. Before her ban, her mere presence forced players to [[CripplingOverspecialization to run sub-par teams dedicated entirely to taking it down]], since she had no reliable counters.
*** Lucarionite, which allows Lucario to mega-evolve. Although it was not as unreasonably strong as Mega Kangaskhan, with Adaptability-boosted [=STABs=], more speed than Latios, and no less than ''three'' forms of priority, Mega Lucario was still a force of nature. What really pushed it over the edge was its unpredictability; it could run physical, special, and even mixed sets, each with different coverage moves, making it basically impossible to counter. It has been fittingly compared to a Choice Band Terrakion with a Choice Specs Keldeo strapped to its back for special attack and Starmie for shoes--and shoes -- and that's unboosted! Like Gengar, regular Lucario can still be used, however.



*** Mega Salamence drew comparisons with M-Kangaskhan for many of the same reasons. It has boundless physical bulk[[note]]surviving a Terrakion's Stone Edge among other things[[/note]] helped even further by Intimidate before mega evolving, absurdly powerful Aerilate-boosted attacks, and just the right movepool to cover every conceivable check. M-Salamence subverts this trope however, currently being ranked S in Ubers alongside M-Gengar.

to:

*** Mega Salamence drew comparisons with M-Kangaskhan for many of the same reasons. It has boundless physical bulk[[note]]surviving a Terrakion's Stone Edge among other things[[/note]] helped even further by Intimidate before mega evolving, absurdly powerful Aerilate-boosted attacks, and just the right movepool to cover every conceivable check. M-Salamence subverts this trope trope, however, currently being ranked S in Ubers alongside M-Gengar.



** The classic example: [[OneHitPointWonder Shedinja]]. It's more or less useless in lower tiers because it's vulnerability to stealth rock means it usually faints on the turn it enters. In Ubers, where stealth rock is often foregone for more turns to attack, and the leading Pokémon in the tier (Kyogre) only had one, non-competitive, move that can damage Shedinja, it makes for an effective surprise weapon.

to:

** The classic example: [[OneHitPointWonder Shedinja]]. It's more or less useless in lower tiers because it's itS vulnerability to stealth rock means it usually faints on the turn it enters. In Ubers, where stealth rock is often foregone for more turns to attack, and the leading Pokémon in the tier (Kyogre) only had one, non-competitive, one (non-competitive) move that can damage Shedinja, it makes for an effective surprise weapon.



* MinMaxing: All of the on-site analyses, which also explain what the stat spreads accomplish like out-speeding a specific target or surviving certain moves

to:

* MinMaxing: All of the on-site analyses, which also explain what the stat spreads accomplish like out-speeding a specific target or surviving certain movesmoves.



* NormalFishInATinyPond: Even though Uber is a banlist for Pokemons that are too powerful for the standard Overused metagame, there are some Pokemons that are just incapable of performing any viable roles in the Ubers metagame. Deoxys-N is a prime example of this, it has a great offensive stats and movepool that is capable of sweeping the entire OU tier mons but in its native Uber tier, it falls completely flat because its role is completely outclassed by Deoxys-A.
* NotCompletelyUseless: Toxic Orb is usually a terrible item to give a Pokémon, but in Gliscor's hands, it turns it into a StoneWall that can be incredibly frustrating to take down. It's also the only reliable way to activate the Toxic Boost and Quick Feet abilities [[note]] Quick Feet doesn't prevent burns from halving Attack and most Quick Feet users are physical attackers, so Flame Orb isn't very good for this. [[/note]], and can be used to activate Guts.

to:

* NormalFishInATinyPond: Even though Uber is a banlist for Pokemons Pokémon that are too powerful for the standard Overused metagame, there are some Pokemons Pokémon that are just incapable of performing any viable roles in the Ubers metagame. Deoxys-N is a prime example of this, this; it has a great offensive stats and a movepool that is capable of sweeping the entire OU tier mons tier, but in its native Uber tier, it falls completely flat because its role is completely outclassed by Deoxys-A.
* NotCompletelyUseless: Toxic Orb is usually a terrible item to give a Pokémon, but in Gliscor's hands, it turns it into a StoneWall that can be incredibly frustrating to take down. It's also the only reliable way to activate the Toxic Boost and Quick Feet abilities [[note]] Quick [[note]]Quick Feet doesn't prevent burns from halving Attack and most Quick Feet users are physical attackers, so Flame Orb isn't very good for this. [[/note]], this[[/note]], and can be used to activate Guts.



* PoorPredictableRock: Many Pokémon only have one thing they can do well and tend to be obvious about in. [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer That being said, some are still very good due to how well they do that one thing]].

to:

* PoorPredictableRock: Many Pokémon only have one thing they can do well and tend to be obvious about in.it. [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer That being said, some are still very good due to how well they do that one thing]].



*** Trapping abilities. While trapping moves like Mean Look, Wrap, and their variants have fallen by the wayside due to the faster-paced metagame[[note]]Opponents are much more likely to switch out of an unfavorable matchup than stick around long enough for such a move to connect to its intended target.[[/note]], abilities like Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, and ''especially'' Shadow Tag remain incredibly useful for the same reasons as entry hazards. To illustrate, Shadow Tag almost single-handedly turned Wobbuffet from a JokeCharacter to a GameBreaker (before Gen V, at least), and it's a large part of why Mega Gengar is considered a GameBreaker in Gen VI.

to:

*** Trapping abilities. While trapping moves like Mean Look, Wrap, and their variants have fallen by the wayside due to the faster-paced metagame[[note]]Opponents are much more likely to switch out of an unfavorable matchup than stick around long enough for such a move to connect to its intended target.[[/note]], target[[/note]], abilities like Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, and ''especially'' Shadow Tag remain incredibly useful for the same reasons as entry hazards. To illustrate, Shadow Tag almost single-handedly turned Wobbuffet from a JokeCharacter to a GameBreaker (before Gen V, at least), and it's a large part of why Mega Gengar is considered a GameBreaker in Gen VI.



*** Pokémon that are {{Mighty Glacier}}s or {{Stone Wall}}s. In-game, players can just level grind a couple of team members to overpower the ArtificialIntelligence with brute force and use items to heal crippled[=/=]downed members, which is much easier to accomplish with {{Glass Cannon}}s due to their strength and speed. In player vs. player matches, it doesn't work this way: if you want to switch in something, you have to either let your current Pokémon be knocked out or give your opponent a free shot at whatever you're bringing in (barring SwitchOutMove, of course). In such an environment, highly defensive Pokémon are much more useful, as they can typically take a hit or two and still survive well enough to provide support for the attackers.

to:

*** Pokémon that are {{Mighty Glacier}}s or {{Stone Wall}}s. In-game, players can just level grind a couple of team members to overpower the ArtificialIntelligence with brute force and use items to heal crippled[=/=]downed members, which is much easier to accomplish with {{Glass Cannon}}s due to their strength and speed. In player vs. player matches, it doesn't work this way: if you want to switch in something, you have to either let your current Pokémon be knocked out or give your opponent a free shot at whatever you're bringing in (barring a SwitchOutMove, of course). In such an environment, highly defensive Pokémon are much more useful, as they can typically take a hit or two and still survive well enough to provide support for the attackers.



*** Attacking moves with low Power Points (PP), like Close Combat and Fire Blast. In-game, they're not especially useful since the low PP means having to stop and go back to the Pokémon Center/use up PP-restoring items that much more often, and the minor increase in power generally isn't worth it. Even worse, these move often have some drawback, like decreasing stats after each use or having low accuracy, which makes the more practical moves like Brick Break and Flamethrower even more appealing. In the metagame, though, the low PP is typically not an issue, since PP is restored after each battle, and the drawbacks of such moves are seen as worth the risk, since the difference in power between Fire Blast and Flamethrower can often mean the difference between, for example, a 2-hit KO and a 3-hit KO, which can snowball into the difference between a win and a loss.

to:

*** Attacking moves with low Power Points (PP), like Close Combat and Fire Blast. In-game, they're not especially useful since the low PP means having to stop and go back to the Pokémon Center/use up PP-restoring items that much more often, and the minor increase in power generally isn't worth it. Even worse, these move moves often have some drawback, like decreasing stats after each use or having low accuracy, which makes the more practical moves like Brick Break and Flamethrower even more appealing. In the metagame, though, the low PP is typically not an issue, since PP is restored after each battle, and the drawbacks of such moves are seen as worth the risk, since the difference in power between Fire Blast and Flamethrower can often mean the difference between, for example, a 2-hit KO and a 3-hit KO, which can snowball into the difference between a win and a loss.



*** Since the AI almost never use Status moves in favor of brute force, Taunt is incredibly impractical in single player modes. Even if they do have status moves in their moveset, since the Pokemons and moveset they use are fixed, it is generally better to abuse type and level advantages against them. But in multiplayer however, status moves are one of the leading gears of the metagame and as such for many offensive or anti-stall teams, Taunt ranks among one of the best moves to directly prevent them from using status moves to cripple your team.
* SadisticChoice: Mega Gengar's specialty and why it was banned. It works like this: Mega Gengar uses Perish Song[[note]]a move that will make both Pokémon on the field faint in three turns. This normally forces a switch, but Shadow Tag means that that isn't going to happen[[/note]]. It would be tempting to kill it directly, but it can also use [[TakingYouWithMe Destiny Bond]]. Walling it is also a non-option, as most walls are dispatched with Perish Song. Even forcing it out with Roar and such will not get rid of the Perish Song counter, making you lose momentum. Baton Pass and Volt-Turn are the best options to escape, and this is only buying time instead of eliminating the threat. Ghost-type Pokémon can innately escape trapping moves and abilities, however--the problem with that is that Gengar is itself a Ghost-type Pokémon with an absurd amount of Special Attack to boot. There's no reliable way to deal with this setup, and checking it is largely a matter of dumb luck and/or the M-Gengar user being dumb as a sandbag.

to:

*** Since the AI almost never use Status moves in favor of brute force, Taunt is incredibly impractical in single player modes. Even if they do have status moves in their moveset, since the Pokemons and moveset they use are fixed, it is generally better to abuse type and level advantages against them. But in multiplayer multiplayer, however, status moves are one of the leading gears of the metagame metagame, and as such such, for many offensive or anti-stall teams, Taunt ranks among one of the best moves to directly prevent them from using status moves to cripple your team.
* SadisticChoice: Mega Gengar's specialty and why it was banned. It works like this: Mega Gengar uses Perish Song[[note]]a move that will make both Pokémon on the field faint in three turns. This normally forces a switch, but Shadow Tag means that that isn't going to happen[[/note]]. It would be tempting to kill it directly, but it can also use [[TakingYouWithMe Destiny Bond]]. Walling it is also a non-option, as most walls are dispatched with Perish Song. Even forcing it out with Roar and such will not get rid of the Perish Song counter, making you lose momentum. Baton Pass and Volt-Turn are the best options to escape, and this is only buying time instead of eliminating the threat. Ghost-type Pokémon can innately escape trapping moves and abilities, however--the however -- the problem with that is that Gengar is itself a Ghost-type Pokémon with an absurd amount of Special Attack to boot. There's no reliable way to deal with this setup, and checking it is largely a matter of dumb luck and/or the M-Gengar user being dumb as a sandbag.



* ThatOneRule: Speed is calculated at the beginning of the turn and not directly after a change to speed. While this normally does not pose a problem, as it typically takes a turn to use a speed-altering move, a Pokémon that Mega Evolves can suddenly seem to underspeedy against the opponent, because speed on that turn is still determined using pre-Mega Evolution stats.

to:

* ThatOneRule: Speed is calculated at the beginning of the turn and not directly after a change to speed. While this normally does not pose a problem, as it typically takes a turn to use a speed-altering move, a Pokémon that Mega Evolves can suddenly seem to underspeedy too under-speedy against the opponent, because speed on that turn is still determined using pre-Mega Evolution stats.



** Using [[EliteTweak Trick Room]] in Singles. It takes a turn to set up (which means your opponent is more than likely [[RuleOfThree beating on you]] during that turn), lasts only 5 turns, and is wrecked by [[ActionInitiative priority attacks]] aren't affected by it.

to:

** Using [[EliteTweak Trick Room]] in Singles. It takes a turn to set up (which means your opponent is more than likely [[RuleOfThree beating on you]] during that turn), lasts only 5 turns, and is wrecked by [[ActionInitiative priority attacks]] attacks]], since they aren't affected by it.



** According to critic Kadew in [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue28/movie_panel "Johto Journeys"]], it works in ''Spell of the Unown''[='=]s favor since the eponymous Pokémon are supposed to be otherworldly and animating them in 3D emphasizes this. On the other hand it goes overboard in ''4Ever'' and ''Heroes'' due to being unnecessary and how badly it stands out.

to:

** According to critic Kadew in [[http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue28/movie_panel "Johto Journeys"]], it works in ''Spell of the Unown''[='=]s favor since the eponymous Pokémon are supposed to be otherworldly and animating them in 3D emphasizes this. On the other hand hand, it goes overboard in ''4Ever'' and ''Heroes'' due to being unnecessary and how badly it stands out.



** The "Do You Even Lift" using BrokeTheRatingScale.

to:

** The "Do You Even Lift" articles using BrokeTheRatingScale.
28th Nov '16 8:28:24 PM Loekman3
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Since the AI almost never use Status moves in favor of brute force, Taunt is incredibly impractical in single player modes. Even if they do have status moves in their moveset, since the Pokemons and moveset they use are fixed, it is generally better to abuse type and level advantages against them. But in multiplayer however, status moves are one of the leading gears of the metagame and as such for many offensive or anti-stall teams, Taunt ranks among one of the best moves to directly prevent them from using status moves to cripple your team.
28th Nov '16 6:13:56 PM MJTrooper
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The Battle Screen shows the {{Status Buff}}s (or debuffs) a Pokémon has and their exact boosts. The main ''Pokémon'' games eventually got a similar feature in ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon''.
** Effects such as Destiny Bond, Bide, etc. will show whether they are still active or not.
** Weather, Light Screen, Reflect, and other field effects have a turn counter. For Weather and Light Screen/Reflect, it gives 2 counters (listed as "x or y turns left") [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything since the opponent could possibly be holding the items that extend the effect time]].
** Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web have their own graphics to tell you that they're active.

to:

** The simulator keeps track of things that players had to memorize while playing the regular ''Pokémon'' games. The main Pokémon games eventually got a similar feature in ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon''.
***
The Battle Screen shows the {{Status Buff}}s (or debuffs) a Pokémon has and their exact boosts. The main ''Pokémon'' games eventually got a similar feature in ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon''.
**
boosts.
***
Effects such as Destiny Bond, Bide, etc. will show whether they are still active or not.
** *** Weather, Light Screen, Reflect, and other field effects have a turn counter. For Weather and Light Screen/Reflect, it gives 2 counters (listed as "x or y turns left") [[TheDevTeamThinksOfEverything since the opponent could possibly be holding the items that extend the effect time]].
** *** Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web have their own graphics to tell you that they're active.
25th Nov '16 1:56:59 PM Tropetastic1995
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Many Legendary Pokémon tend to show up in the lower tiers. Articuno and Regice get this the worst; although both were initially able to pack a punch in their own respective metagames (Articuno with a 90% accurate Blizzard in a generation where a lucky freeze was equal to death and Regice in a generation before the physical / special split), they both lost value over time and became especially terrible in the transition to the fourth generation as a result of growing power creep in addition to the ever present Stealth Rock.

to:

** Many Legendary Pokémon tend to show up in the lower tiers. Articuno and Regice get this the worst; although both were initially able to pack a punch in their own respective metagames (Articuno with a 90% accurate Blizzard in a generation where a lucky freeze was equal to death and Regice in a generation before the physical / special split), they both lost value vaiability over time and became time, especially terrible in the transition to the fourth generation as a result of growing power creep in addition to the ever present Stealth Rock.
This list shows the last 10 events of 318. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Website.Smogon