Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG:All Balrogs are cursed so that anyone who slays one will also die.]]
Overlapping with ''The Silmarillion'', there have been 3 canonical deaths of a Balrog in the series: Gothmog was slain by Ecthelion at Gondolin, another Balrog was slain by Glorfindel in the same battle, and Durin's Bane was slain by Gandalf. In all 3 cases, the Balrog's killer was also killed by the conflict. Of course, in the latter 2 cases, they came back to life, but they still had to "die" first.
Morgoth knew that his Balrogs were his most powerful assets, and that losing even one would be a huge blow to his power. It would be perfectly in-character for Morgoth to place this curse upon his servants just so he could spite anyone who dared challenge him in this manner.
This also fits nicely with the non-canon ''Shadow of War'' game, where another Balrog is cast into a frozen lake by Carnan. Carnan doesn't technically "die" in this instance, but her current avatar perishes, which would still fulfil the criteria of the curse.
Overlapping with ''The Silmarillion'', there have been 3 canonical deaths of a Balrog in the series: Gothmog was slain by Ecthelion at Gondolin, another Balrog was slain by Glorfindel in the same battle, and Durin's Bane was slain by Gandalf. In all 3 cases, the Balrog's killer was also killed by the conflict. Of course, in the latter 2 cases, they came back to life, but they still had to "die" first.
Morgoth knew that his Balrogs were his most powerful assets, and that losing even one would be a huge blow to his power. It would be perfectly in-character for Morgoth to place this curse upon his servants just so he could spite anyone who dared challenge him in this manner.
This also fits nicely with the non-canon ''Shadow of War'' game, where another Balrog is cast into a frozen lake by Carnan. Carnan doesn't technically "die" in this instance, but her current avatar perishes, which would still fulfil the criteria of the curse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 900,901 (click to see context) from:
Given that the Witch King was toyed around a lot as being a former Istari by Tolkien, he might have decided to canonized that to have an imposing villain in the sequel. If the Witch King were indeed a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly corrupting men in the Fourth Age in the Fourth Age. However, since he can't assume a physical form nor can he forcefully corrupt anyone, the main threat remains humans who choose to serve him out of their own accord, which fits Tolkien's description of his unfinished work as being about complacent humans willingly turning evil.
to:
Given that the Witch King was toyed around a lot as being a former Istari by Tolkien, he might have decided to canonized re-canonize that to have an imposing villain in the sequel. If the Witch King were was indeed a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly corrupting men in the Fourth Age in the Fourth Age. However, since he can't assume a physical form nor can he forcefully corrupt anyone, the main threat remains humans who choose to serve him out of their own accord, which fits Tolkien's description of his unfinished work as being about complacent humans willingly turning evil.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 900,901 (click to see context) from:
Given that the Witch King was toyed around a lot as being a former Istari by Tolkien, he might have decided to canonized that to have a threatening villain in his sequel. If the Witch King were indeef a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly corrupting men in the Fourth Age in the Fourth Age. However, since he can't assume a physical form nor can he forcefully corrupt anyone, the main threat remains humans who choose to serve him out of their own accord, which fits Tolkien's description of his unfinished work as being about complacent humans turning evil.
to:
Given that the Witch King was toyed around a lot as being a former Istari by Tolkien, he might have decided to canonized that to have a threatening an imposing villain in his the sequel. If the Witch King were indeef indeed a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly corrupting men in the Fourth Age in the Fourth Age. However, since he can't assume a physical form nor can he forcefully corrupt anyone, the main threat remains humans who choose to serve him out of their own accord, which fits Tolkien's description of his unfinished work as being about complacent humans willingly turning evil.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 677,679 (click to see context) :
[[WMG: The Witch King is a former Istari and survives to become the dark lord of the Fourth Age]]
The Witch King being a former Istari was toyed around a lot by Tolkien, so it might still be canon given how often Tolkien changed his mind on things. If he were a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly destroying the Reunited Kingdom in the Fourth Age.
The Witch King being a former Istari was toyed around a lot by Tolkien, so it might still be canon given how often Tolkien changed his mind on things. If he were a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly destroying the Reunited Kingdom in the Fourth Age.
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The Witch King was going to be revealed as the twist villain of the New Shadow]]
Given that the Witch King was toyed around a lot as being a former Istari by Tolkien, he might have decided to canonized that to have a threatening villain in his sequel. If the Witch King were indeef a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly corrupting men in the Fourth Age in the Fourth Age. However, since he can't assume a physical form nor can he forcefully corrupt anyone, the main threat remains humans who choose to serve him out of their own accord, which fits Tolkien's description of his unfinished work as being about complacent humans turning evil.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The Witch King is a former Istari and survives to become the dark lord of the Fourth Age]]
The Witch King being a former Istari was toyed around a lot by Tolkien, so it might still be canon given how often Tolkien changed his mind on things. If he were a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly destroying the Reunited Kingdom in the Fourth Age.
The Witch King being a former Istari was toyed around a lot by Tolkien, so it might still be canon given how often Tolkien changed his mind on things. If he were a Maia like Gandalf, that would help him survive the destruction of the One Ring as a disembodied spirit, unlike his mannish compatriots. From there, he could influence humans to establish cults dedicated to Sauron and Melkor, slowly destroying the Reunited Kingdom in the Fourth Age.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
Melkor kidnaps elves and forces them to work for him. He lives in the far north. Everyone in Middle Earth has been super naughty.
to:
Melkor kidnaps elves and forces them to work for him. He lives in the far north. Everyone in Middle Earth has been super naughty. Matti23
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 9,11 (click to see context) :
[[folder:Another Global cataclysm similar to the sinking of Beleriand will happen sometime after or during the 4th age]]
The Modern Day world is supposed to be the future of the story. The modern day map doesn't look like the third age map. When have we seen the map suddenly change? Global cataclysms such as the clash of Valar that caused the sinking of Beleriand. Another such event may occur during of after the 4th age. Either Mankind gets up to some shenanigans during that time or another Dark Lord of serious power is coming. Matti23
Added DiffLines:
[[folder:Another Global cataclysm similar to the sinking of Beleriand will happen sometime after or during the 4th age]]
The Modern Day world is supposed to be the future of the story. The modern day map doesn't look like the third age map. When have we seen the map suddenly change? Global cataclysms such as the clash of Valar that caused the sinking of Beleriand. Another such event may occur during of after the 4th age. Either Mankind gets up to some shenanigans during that time or another Dark Lord of serious power is coming. Matti23
[[/folder]]
The Modern Day world is supposed to be the future of the story. The modern day map doesn't look like the third age map. When have we seen the map suddenly change? Global cataclysms such as the clash of Valar that caused the sinking of Beleriand. Another such event may occur during of after the 4th age. Either Mankind gets up to some shenanigans during that time or another Dark Lord of serious power is coming. Matti23
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[folder:Melkor is Santa Claus and Angband is Santa's workshop]]
Melkor kidnaps elves and forces them to work for him. He lives in the far north. Everyone in Middle Earth has been super naughty.
Melkor kidnaps elves and forces them to work for him. He lives in the far north. Everyone in Middle Earth has been super naughty.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*It was stated that Sauron was hoarding Mithril. Other than Frodo's Mithril shirt we didn't have any mention of Orcs or others in Sauron's service using Mithril. This might be what he was doing with it. It was also mentioned that he was using it for war. Building such a device might count as building a superweapon. The ring required a huge amount of energy because it needed to dominate the others. Such a device wouldn't need to be as strong, it just needs enough to count as a part of him and allow him to wield Arda. Getting his ring back would certainly help though as it could be a very costly task.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
[[folder:The Orcs turned back into elves after the fall of Sauron?]]
to:
[[folder:The Orcs turned back into elves after the fall of Sauron?]]Sauron]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda. Matti23
to:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other others interpret this has as absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda. Matti23
Changed line(s) 20,21 (click to see context) from:
[[folder:What happened to the Orcs after the fall of Sauron?]]
* The Orcs turned back into elves
* The Orcs turned back into elves
to:
* The
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16,17 (click to see context) from:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda. Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
to:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda. Depending Matti23
*Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
[[/folder]]
*Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16,19 (click to see context) from:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda.
Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
to:
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda.
Arda. Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
It's mentioned that when Arda is destroyed it will be remade and will be better than before (Arda Redeemed). What if this is not the first time this happened? What if a previous iteration of Arda was even worse than the current one (Arda super marred?)
and the Nameless Things migrated from there. Matti23
and the Nameless Things migrated from there. Matti23
to:
It's mentioned that when Arda is destroyed it will be remade and will be better than before (Arda Redeemed). What if this is not the first time this happened? What if a previous iteration of Arda was even worse than the current one (Arda super marred?)
marred?) and the Nameless Things migrated from there. Matti23
Added DiffLines:
[[folder:Tom Bombadil is from a previous iteration of Arda]]
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda.
Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
Similar to the above theory, perhaps Tom is a surviving creature from the last iteration of Arda. This would explain his lack of care of the world around him. Gandalf and other interpret this has absent mindedness but perhaps this is incorrect. Perhaps due to seeing one (or perhaps many) iterations of Arda destroyed and then seeing everything rebuilt, with the understanding that this will happen again he doesn't see the world as worth caring about. His mindset may actually be a Nililistic response to his greater level of insight into the nature of Arda.
Depending how similar each iteration is he may be a prior Iteration of Melkor that was never corrupted or has been reformed. It would explain how he can resist the influence of the Ring. The Valar may not have been able to resist the Ring but Melkor is much more powerful than the rest of the Valar and he is a master of ring craft and so may have extra resistance against the influence of it. Matti23
