History WMG / StarOcean

26th Aug '13 9:17:59 PM Chebinger
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* In the original his also says "I'm erasing you."
24th Aug '13 6:50:43 AM Viira
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** Given that some variants of particle physics suggest that there may be as many as 13 dimensions[[hottip:*: most of them curled up in on themselves and invisible]], we're probably farther up the chain than that. The 5D beings are really just programs in the 6D being world, which is a computer in the 7D being world, etc.

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** Given that some variants of particle physics suggest that there may be as many as 13 dimensions[[hottip:*: dimensions[[note]] most of them curled up in on themselves and invisible]], invisible[[/note]], we're probably farther up the chain than that. The 5D beings are really just programs in the 6D being world, which is a computer in the 7D being world, etc.
3rd Apr '13 2:15:08 PM IsaacG
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The important part about the certain failure of Lucifer's attempt at plane-cide is why the aeons are going to lengths to rescue the imprisoned souls--their spiritual reality. Despite what Ialdabaoth thinks, those humans are ''not'' his creations; that's just their gross physical shells. The actual souls/minds/essences come from beyond. Translating the scheme to SO3, Lucifer was essentially aiming ''at the wrong part''. He destroyed the 4D portion, but the "real", unique-to-ES portion was impervious. (Any deaths his Proclaimers and Convictors ''did'' cause would be everlasting, though, because that was essentially attacking spirit with spirit, rather than trying to attack spirit with matter.) The program was essentially like a metal-casting mould, which the spiritual-substance denizens and objects took the shape of. Lucifer mistook everything for being just the "mould". This would be like Ialdabaoth constantly and stupidly thinking he was succeeding so long as he had acquiescence from the material vectors, not realizing that the spiritual substance was anything but acquiescent (or even ''there''). So, while from 4D it would look like he achieved the destruction, the cast object was pretty much intact, despite what he obliquely made it do to itself with his angel programs/spirits.

to:

The important part about the certain failure of Lucifer's attempt at plane-cide is why the aeons are going to lengths to rescue the imprisoned souls--their spiritual reality. Despite what Ialdabaoth thinks, those humans are ''not'' his creations; that's just their gross physical shells. The actual souls/minds/essences come from beyond. Translating the scheme to SO3, [=SO3=], Lucifer was essentially aiming ''at the wrong part''. He destroyed the 4D portion, but the "real", unique-to-ES portion was impervious. (Any deaths his Proclaimers and Convictors ''did'' cause would be everlasting, though, because that was essentially attacking spirit with spirit, rather than trying to attack spirit with matter.) The program was essentially like a metal-casting mould, which the spiritual-substance denizens and objects took the shape of. Lucifer mistook everything for being just the "mould". This would be like Ialdabaoth constantly and stupidly thinking he was succeeding so long as he had acquiescence from the material vectors, not realizing that the spiritual substance was anything but acquiescent (or even ''there''). So, while from 4D it would look like he achieved the destruction, the cast object was pretty much intact, despite what he obliquely made it do to itself with his angel programs/spirits.



By all rights, Nede creating the Wise Men should have brought an even ''more'' ferocious response from Sphere than the SO3 heroes did. And yet...nothing. Not even a peep from 4D. However, the in-game encyclopedia points out that part of Lucifer's genius was allowing ES's players to choose multiple time frames. If all these time frames were still going up until ES was severed from 4D, then it's pretty likely that there were null spaces in between. If both Wise Men events happened in these null areas, then we have an explanation for why 4D didn't take notice; they hadn't happened yet.

to:

By all rights, Nede creating the Wise Men should have brought an even ''more'' ferocious response from Sphere than the SO3 [=SO3=] heroes did. And yet...nothing. Not even a peep from 4D. However, the in-game encyclopedia points out that part of Lucifer's genius was allowing ES's players to choose multiple time frames. If all these time frames were still going up until ES was severed from 4D, then it's pretty likely that there were null spaces in between. If both Wise Men events happened in these null areas, then we have an explanation for why 4D didn't take notice; they hadn't happened yet.
6th Mar '13 10:46:30 AM SeptimusHeap
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* It was probably supposed to be awesome, maybe thought-provoking, but not a TakeThat. If there is a message, it's probably that [[HeroicSociopath Albel will kill anyone who complains.]] [[KillItWithFire Nel will do so with fire.]]

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* It was probably supposed to be awesome, maybe thought-provoking, but not a TakeThat. If there is a message, it's probably that [[HeroicSociopath [[SociopathicHero Albel will kill anyone who complains.]] [[KillItWithFire Nel will do so with fire.]]
11th Oct '12 1:00:23 PM EarlOfSandvich
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[[WMG: Lymle Lemuri Phi and [[{{Touhou}} Sukia Ibuki]] are somehow related.]]

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[[WMG: Lymle Lemuri Phi and [[{{Touhou}} [[VideoGame/{{Touhou}} Sukia Ibuki]] are somehow related.]]
27th Apr '12 7:12:16 PM Treblain
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* In some ways, this game has alot of parallels to Digimon, at what point is virtual reality 'real'? It's also the complete turn around of .hack// in that we know it's a game, but it feels real. I agree with the troper of the first bulletin point, it was ment to be thought provoking, much like MiB's 'Galaxy in the Marble' thing, not an insult to the player's intelligence.

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* In some ways, this game has alot of parallels to Digimon, at what point is virtual reality 'real'? It's also the complete turn around of .hack// in that we know it's a game, but it feels real. I agree with the troper of the first bulletin point, it was ment to be thought provoking, much like MiB's ''Film/MenInBlack'''s 'Galaxy in the Marble' thing, not an insult to the player's intelligence.
2nd Jan '12 8:56:38 PM Nocturna
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*** Extremely doubtful. Remember, Eternal Sphere has all the internal continuity of an actual universe. Instancing an event would mean they would have several hundred groups claiming to have singlehandedly saved the universe and recieved the same single group of rewards and promotions for it. That works in a lowtech game, where NPCs are primitive enough to not notice the problem, but in Eternal Sphere, the NPCs would notice something like that. Eternal Sphere players and programers can interact with the game all they want, but most of the real-world unrealistic make-the-game-more-convenient workarounds can't really be feasibly implemented without making the NPCs notice a "glitch in the matrix" and risking a TurnedAgainstTheirMasters moment long before the events of 3.

to:

*** Extremely doubtful. Remember, Eternal Sphere has all the internal continuity of an actual universe. Instancing an event would mean they would have several hundred groups claiming to have singlehandedly saved the universe and recieved received the same single group of rewards and promotions for it. That works in a lowtech low-tech game, where NPCs [=NPCs=] are primitive enough to not notice the problem, but in Eternal Sphere, the NPCs [=NPCs=] would notice something like that. Eternal Sphere players and programers can interact with the game all they want, but most of the real-world unrealistic make-the-game-more-convenient workarounds can't really be feasibly implemented without making the NPCs [=NPCs=] notice a "glitch in the matrix" and risking a TurnedAgainstTheirMasters moment long before the events of 3.
7th Nov '11 10:50:41 AM ReloadPsi
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Welch is playing an in-universe remake]]
I used to loathe the ShockingSwerve in [[StarOceanTillTheEndOfTime the third one]], but I noticed a few clever works around it. The Ten Wise Men could've been early executioners (some of their attacks are copied over, particularly Gabriel's Divine Wave) and as for Welch retconning her way into the remakes... well, the Oracle command has the characters being informed outright that you're playing a remake. Many theories suggest she's a 4D being, so maybe she's playing the remake of the Milky Way galaxy after the executioners eliminated it? Either way, I don't seem to mind the old "[[AllJustADream It was all a dream]] [[UpToEleven turned up to 11]]" twist so much any more when I consider those points, so this would class as a [[FridgeBrilliance fridge]] too.
24th Sep '11 5:34:44 AM Osmium
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WordOfGod has said that all Lucifer succeeded in doing was destroying the link between 4D and ES. This may look like a cop-out, since nothing is concretely said to anything like this effect in-game, but once you realize the parallels to Gnosticism, it becomes pretty clear. Lucifer is the stand-in for Ialdabaoth, a proud, sadistic creator who is utterly ignorant of the original, spiritual realm of the aeons (Ialdabaoth himself is a sort of mutant offspring of the aeon Sophia's ill-advised attempt at creating something all by herself), and thus fails to realize that he's ''not'' the infinitely highest entity in existence. He creates his own heavens and earth to have something to rule over (and thus something that will forever fluff up his ego), but doesn't realize that the souls he created are actually hapless spirits from the aeons' realm that somehow got stuck with him. So when the aeons send messengers (e.g. the Serpent of Eden, Jesus) to help enlighten humanity and give it the potential to escape this decaying-from-imperfection (inevitable from Ialdabaoth's own imperfect soul), grossly matter-bound world, he reacts...[[{{Understatement}} violently]]. He has his "angels", the archons (usually just as nasty as, or in forms of Gnosticism where Ialdabaoth is not sadistic, just a WellIntentionedExtremist, ''worse'' than him), throw everything they've got in ''keeping'' his creations in their "proper"-from-and-to-all-eternity place and driving off these [[EvilCannotComprehendGood alien usurpers]]. If you've fought Lucifer, a good deal of why he has the archons do what they do should sound familiar.

to:

WordOfGod has said that all Lucifer succeeded in doing was destroying the link between 4D and ES. This may look like a cop-out, since nothing is concretely said to anything like this effect in-game, but once you realize the parallels to Gnosticism, it becomes pretty clear. Lucifer is the stand-in for Ialdabaoth, a proud, sadistic creator who is utterly ignorant of the original, spiritual realm of the aeons (Ialdabaoth himself is a sort of mutant offspring of the aeon Sophia's ill-advised attempt at creating something all by herself), and thus fails to realize that he's ''not'' the infinitely highest entity in existence. He creates his own heavens and earth to have something to rule over (and thus something that will forever fluff up his ego), but doesn't realize that the souls he created are actually hapless spirits from the aeons' realm that somehow got stuck with him. So when the aeons send messengers (e.g. the Serpent of Eden, Jesus) to help enlighten humanity and give it the potential to escape this decaying-from-imperfection (inevitable from Ialdabaoth's own imperfect soul), grossly matter-bound world, he reacts...[[{{Understatement}} violently]]. violently. He has his "angels", the archons (usually just as nasty as, or in forms of Gnosticism where Ialdabaoth is not sadistic, just a WellIntentionedExtremist, ''worse'' than him), throw everything they've got in ''keeping'' his creations in their "proper"-from-and-to-all-eternity place and driving off these [[EvilCannotComprehendGood alien usurpers]]. If you've fought Lucifer, a good deal of why he has the archons do what they do should sound familiar.
27th Aug '11 10:01:21 PM SchizoTechnician
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*** Extremely doubtful. Remember, Eternal Sphere has all the internal continuity of an actual universe. Instancing an event would mean they would have several hundred groups claiming to have singlehandedly saved the universe and recieved the same single group of rewards and promotions for it. That works in a lowtech game, where NPCs are primitive enough to not notice the problem, but in Eternal Sphere, the NPCs would notice something like that.

to:

*** Extremely doubtful. Remember, Eternal Sphere has all the internal continuity of an actual universe. Instancing an event would mean they would have several hundred groups claiming to have singlehandedly saved the universe and recieved the same single group of rewards and promotions for it. That works in a lowtech game, where NPCs are primitive enough to not notice the problem, but in Eternal Sphere, the NPCs would notice something like that.
that. Eternal Sphere players and programers can interact with the game all they want, but most of the real-world unrealistic make-the-game-more-convenient workarounds can't really be feasibly implemented without making the NPCs notice a "glitch in the matrix" and risking a TurnedAgainstTheirMasters moment long before the events of 3.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.StarOcean