History WMG / SAW

9th Jun '16 3:37:28 AM memememememe
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Pretty much the only way to account for Jigsaw directly using a weapon on someone.

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Pretty much the only way to account for Jigsaw directly using a weapon on someone.someone.

[[WMG: John Kramer wasn't originally an engineer: he was ThePhilosopher.]]
He was obviously a polymath, but if he only took up a course in engineering then why did he possess such a comprehensive knowledge about the human condition, human psychology and the survival instinct, which he used to carry out his legacy long after his death? Perhaps being a civil engineer responsible for designing most of the city's infrastructure was not his original passion. Instead, John Kramer's original passion was Philosophy, especially the philosophy behind finding a reason on why a human individual should live despite the circumstances he suffered e.g. the death of his son with Jill. It is entirely plausible that Kramer was a reader of Schopenhauer (who believed that the will to live was the source of all suffering) and Creator/FriedrichNietzsche (where he learned the concept of the Will to Power as fundamental in life) but adopted their philosophies into his own, that for one to survive, they must have the Will to Power in enduring pain to survive. However, in Real Life, [[ADegreeInUseless Philiosophy is known to be an unprofitable venture]], which is why, due to the recognition by others of his skills in engineering, he was forced to enter into becoming one of the most important civil engineers in the city (kinda like Adolf Hitler being forced into architecture even if his original passion was fine arts), and eventually marrying Jill, who as a rehabilitation doctor obviously had an experience in psychology. However, his cancer combined with Amanda's idiocy in aborting his child, convincing him that he has no longer a reason to live,resulted in his suicide attempt, which failed... and reawakened his Philosophical passion in questioning: What does it mean for a human being to survive? This was where Kramer, despite being not a philosophy graduate, decided to use his acquired skills in engineering to express to his subjects what his philosophy of life is.
10th Jun '15 6:46:35 PM ShinyTsukkomi
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- Jigsaw is ''very'' petty. Many of his victims were people he felt had wronged him, not people who needed to appreciate their lives more. By ''Saw VI'', he was reminding me of the guy in ''HellGirl'' who damns someone for spilling coffee on him. And the ultimate proof is Dagen himself. He's out there on TV ''spreading Jigsaw's message'', giving him exactly the PR he wants -- but Jigsaw destroys that asset because he can't abide a fake victim. That's petty.\\

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- Jigsaw is ''very'' petty. Many of his victims were people he felt had wronged him, not people who needed to appreciate their lives more. By ''Saw VI'', he was reminding me of the guy in ''HellGirl'' ''Anime/HellGirl'' who damns someone for spilling coffee on him. And the ultimate proof is Dagen himself. He's out there on TV ''spreading Jigsaw's message'', giving him exactly the PR he wants -- but Jigsaw destroys that asset because he can't abide a fake victim. That's petty.\\
21st May '15 1:46:44 PM backpack
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* He could have used his medical expertise to figure out where to impale Morgan and Rex from ''Saw IV.''

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* He could have used his medical expertise to figure out where to impale Morgan and Rex from ''Saw IV.''''

[[WMG: The hooded Jigsaw in the first film was Hoffman disguising his voice.]]
Pretty much the only way to account for Jigsaw directly using a weapon on someone.
23rd Jan '15 10:28:27 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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* Daniel Whitehurst, owner of the asylum who said that the government grants do not cover patient needs.

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* Daniel Whitehurst, Whitehurst IV, M.D., owner of the asylum who said that the government grants do not cover patient needs.




[[WMG: Dr. Holstein wrote the medical notes in the first video game.]]
No other doctor is named.

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\n* Dr. Timothy Early, a doctor who might have supported LSD research.

[[WMG: Dr. Holstein or Dr. Early wrote the medical notes in the first video game.]]
No other doctor is doctors are named.



The notes mention a wife pregnant with a child, and the behavior described matches John Kramer. Even though it is written that he is 34 in 1998, the doctor could have made a typographical error when he meant to write 44. According to ''Saw IV,'' John Kramer was 52 when he died in 2006, so the math adds up if it's a typo.

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The notes mention a wife pregnant with a child, and the behavior described matches John Kramer. Even though it is written that he is 34 in 1998, the doctor could have made a typographical error when he meant to write 44. According to ''Saw IV,'' John Kramer was 52 when he died in 2006, so the math adds up if it's a typo.
typo. It is also mentioned that the patient fractured his arm from what he described as an accidental fall, possibly alluding to John Kramer's suicide attempt when he drove his car off a cliff.

[[WMG: Conversely, the medical notes were on Lawrence Gordon.]]
Lawrence also had a wife, and his daughter was 5-6 years old during the first film according to the script. If it takes place in 2004, then Diana being born in 1998 fits perfectly. The notes say that the patient has medical knowledge and comments that "Doctors make the worst patients."

[[WMG: The medical notes are on the person who became Pighead.]]
The notes mention that the patient sees people as objects or pawns. It is also mentioned that he has violent tendencies. This does not seem to fit with either John or Lawrence's personalities.
19th Jan '15 6:32:35 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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The notes mention a wife pregnant with a child, and the behavior described matches John Kramer. Even though it is written that he is 34 in 1998, the doctor could have made a typographical error when he meant to write 44. According to ''Saw IV,'' John Kramer was 52 when he died in 2006, so the math adds up if it's a typo.

to:

The notes mention a wife pregnant with a child, and the behavior described matches John Kramer. Even though it is written that he is 34 in 1998, the doctor could have made a typographical error when he meant to write 44. According to ''Saw IV,'' John Kramer was 52 when he died in 2006, so the math adds up if it's a typo.typo.

[[WMG: Hoffman was the one who kidnapped Gordon.]]
It was established in ''Saw III'' that Amanda was the one who kidnapped Adam. By the time she got to the bathroom, John was applying his make-up and Lawrence was lying on the floor. Hoffman could have contributed to the test by bringing Lawrence while John prepared in the bathroom.

[[WMG: Amanda or Hoffman electrocuted Lawrence and/or Adam.]]
Zep seemed busy when he was being chased by Tapp.

[[WMG: Lawrence's other possible contributions to Jigsaw's games.]]
* Placing the key in David Tapp's heart in the video game.
* Luring Carla Song to test her in ''Saw II: Flesh & Blood.''
* He could have used his medical expertise to figure out where to impale Morgan and Rex from ''Saw IV.''
19th Jan '15 4:20:17 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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* Nurse Cleaver, who believed that patients would get worse and riot despite medication.

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* Nurse Cleaver, who believed that patients would get worse and riot despite medication.medication.

[[WMG: Dr. Holstein wrote the medical notes in the first video game.]]
No other doctor is named.

[[WMG: The medical notes were on John Kramer.]]
The notes mention a wife pregnant with a child, and the behavior described matches John Kramer. Even though it is written that he is 34 in 1998, the doctor could have made a typographical error when he meant to write 44. According to ''Saw IV,'' John Kramer was 52 when he died in 2006, so the math adds up if it's a typo.
19th Jan '15 1:26:19 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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The Collector was inspired by Jigsaw's traps.

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The Collector was inspired by Jigsaw's traps.traps.

[[WMG: Identity of Pighead from the first ''Saw'' video game.]]
* Ray Watkins, head custodian.
* Francis Merkin, head custodian who replaced Ray.
* A custodian who wrote letters to someone named Marie Whitehurst Asylum. Could possibly be either Ray or Francis.
* Emma, a patient who reminds a custodian of Marie. Perhaps they had an affair?
* Daniel Whitehurst, owner of the asylum who said that the government grants do not cover patient needs.
* Dr. Holstein, mentioned in a memo to nursing staff.
* Nurse Cleaver, who believed that patients would get worse and riot despite medication.
6th Nov '14 7:37:44 PM SharleeD
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\n* Just as an additional quirk of this theory: if William had acted in ways that ensured his co-workers' survival, then he'd have had the janitor and Debbie tagging along with him after those rooms. He could have had one of ''them'' stick around at the Carousel Trap, punching the button over and over, while he continued onward to find his sister.

29th Jan '14 3:53:43 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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It would make a great dramatic plot point and revelation to his wife and daughter.

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It would make a great dramatic plot point and revelation to his wife and daughter.daughter.

[[WMG: ''Saw'' is in the same universe as ''The Collector'' and ''The Collection.'']]
The Collector was inspired by Jigsaw's traps.
29th Jan '14 3:49:59 PM SandwichesHinderProgress
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[[Jigsaw kept Gordon and Tapp captive for nearly a year.]]
The first Saw movie took place November 2004. "Full Diclosure Report: Piecing Together Jigsaw" takes place the year after. In that in-universe documentary, it is stated that Lawrence Gordon and David Tapp were still missing. In the first ''Saw'' video game, Tapp returns home after being tested by Jigsaw in October 2005. The public knew at that time that Tapp was no longer missing since he freed Jigsaw's other test subjects from the asylum, which was mentioned in newspapers. Maybe Dr. Gordon was the one who put the key in Tapp's heart. He was, after all, initially intended to appear in the game. This could have been the test that set him free. He may have been reluctant to accept John's philosophy right after the events of the first film, but maybe he grew to accept them as he was kept alive by John for eleven months, possibly due to Stockholm Syndrome. Helping John with the tests in the video game proved that John could trust him, and Lawrence agreed to help him with subsequent tests.

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[[Jigsaw [[WMG: Jigsaw kept Gordon and Tapp captive for nearly a year.]]
The first Saw movie took place November 2004. "Full Diclosure Report: Piecing Together Jigsaw" takes place the year after. In that in-universe documentary, it is stated that Lawrence Gordon and David Tapp were still missing. In the first ''Saw'' video game, Tapp returns home after being tested by Jigsaw in October 2005. The public knew at that time that Tapp was no longer missing since he freed Jigsaw's other test subjects from the asylum, which was mentioned in newspapers. Maybe Dr. Gordon was the one who put the key in Tapp's heart. He was, after all, initially intended to appear in the game. This could have been the test that set him free. He may have been reluctant to accept John's philosophy right after the events of the first film, but maybe he grew to accept them as he was kept alive by John for eleven months, possibly due to Stockholm Syndrome. Helping John with the tests in the video game proved that John could trust him, and Lawrence agreed to help him with subsequent tests.tests.

[[WMG: A future film will show Lawrence's family's reaction to him being Jigsaw's apprentice.]]
It would make a great dramatic plot point and revelation to his wife and daughter.
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