History WMG / KnightsoftheOldRepublic

30th Mar '18 6:16:16 PM chaoticidealism
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* Some of us will take the hot pilot in the orange jacket or the nice lesbian catgirl. Neither of which will go along with the Dark Side thing

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* Some of us will take the hot pilot in the orange jacket or the nice lesbian catgirl. Neither of which will go along with the Dark Side thingthing.



* Arguably, Revan's true self is the person they were before they were corrupted by the Star Maps and later the Star Forge itself. A light-side Revan could easily reason that what the Jedi did to them was justified; they weren't "mind-raping" Revan so much as they were erasing what those powerful Dark-Side artifacts had done to them and turning Revan back to the side they would have been on all along. Whether Revan thinks the Council should just have killed them and been done with it, or whether they agree with the mind wipe, doesn't dictate whether they turn to the dark side or not.




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* I don't think so--this pragmatic style of reasoning is characteristic of Dark Side Revan, but it also assumes that Revan has learned nothing from the whole ordeal and would try, just as they originally did, to harness the Star Forge and lead the Sith. The first time around, they didn't realize how seductive the power of the Dark Side artifacts they were dealing with, and didn't know how much pain their decisions would cause. This time, they ought to know better. The Dark Side ending is what happens if Revan doesn't learn from the past.
25th Jan '18 12:14:17 PM Allronix
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* The evidence is there. You have the choice of having your character speculate that perhaps all the Star Map planets were not always as they were. Tatooine may not have always been a desert. Manaan might not have once been an entirely water planet. Kashyyyk could once have been a much more average planet. The Star Map on Korriban may even be responsible for why the planet is so strong in the Dark Side. Even Dantooine might have been affected: it seems to be in a state of perpetual autumn, with decaying grass and colourless fields. Then why is it green again in the sequel, you ask? As a bit of FridgeBrilliance - it is likely the Star Maps deactivated along with the destruction of the Star Forge. Five years later? Dantooine is in spring at last.

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* The evidence is there. You have the choice of having your character speculate that perhaps all the Star Map planets were not always as they were. Tatooine may not have always been a desert.desert - the Storyteller's legends were likely true, albeit garbled by milennia's worth of time. Manaan might not have once been an entirely water planet. Kashyyyk could once have been a much more average planet.On Kashyyyk, the Rakata computer states that it was being used to grow food for the empire's armies, but malfunctioned and led to the planet vegetation going berserk. The Star Map on Korriban may even be responsible for why the planet is so strong in the Dark Side. Even Dantooine might have been affected: it seems to be in a state of perpetual autumn, with decaying grass and colourless fields. Then why is it green again in the sequel, you ask? As a bit of FridgeBrilliance - it is likely the Star Maps deactivated along with the destruction of the Star Forge. Five years later? Dantooine is in spring at last.
last.


26th Dec '17 10:33:14 PM chamo
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Think about it for a moment. He's been mind raped by the Jedi. Many of his memories have been restored. The woman he's force bonded with (and the one who is his force guide and bond to the light side) has been corrupted. The Sith are winning. And now you can claim the Star Forge and finish your plans from the past. Revan isn't loyal to the Jedi, he's loyal to the future, to the survival of the races of the galaxy. Siding with the losing Jedi and Republic makes no sense, whereas seizing control of the Star Forge and using Bastila's Battle Meditation to get a quick, mostly painless victory is logical, practical and completely in line with what we know of Revan's personality from before the mind rape.

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Think about it for a moment. He's been mind raped by the Jedi. Many of his memories have been restored. The woman he's force Force bonded with (and the one who is his force Force guide and bond to the light side) Light Side) has been corrupted. The Sith are winning. And now you can claim the Star Forge and finish your plans from the past. Revan isn't loyal to the Jedi, he's loyal to the future, to the survival of the races of the galaxy. Siding with the losing Jedi and Republic makes no sense, whereas seizing control of the Star Forge and using Bastila's Battle Meditation to get a quick, mostly painless victory is logical, practical and completely in line with what we know of Revan's personality from before the mind rape.



* Doubtful in my eye. If Kreia is to be believed (a dangerous assumption, but I believe she was earnest in this case) Revan was in an inherently good person and did not "fall" to the dark side but made a conscious choice, seeing it as being the lesser of two evils. By the end of [=KotOR1=] Revan recalled very little of his previous life, including his original motives for becoming a Sith Lord. Without this knowledge, the amnesiac Revan simply presumed that he had "fallen" and was leading the Sith for no reason beyond being an evil bastard.

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* Doubtful in my eye. If Kreia is to be believed (a dangerous assumption, but I believe she was earnest in this case) Revan was in an inherently good person and did not "fall" to the dark side Dark Side but made a conscious choice, seeing it as being the lesser of two evils. By the end of [=KotOR1=] Revan recalled very little of his previous life, including his original motives for becoming a Sith Lord. Without this knowledge, the amnesiac Revan simply presumed that he had "fallen" and was leading the Sith for no reason beyond being an evil bastard.



* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly form between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.
* Carth's (uncannily accurate) instincts about the weirdness of the PlayerCharacter's situation and predictions of his/her behavior hint that they share some kind of unusual connection. Despite sporting paranoia as a defining characteristic, Carth comes to trust him/her implicitly, spilling his entire life story and [[spoiler: assuming a female Revan, falling in love with her]], even after figuring out that, in a former life, Revan was the primary force behind the destruction of his home planet, the death of his wife and disappearance of his son, which engendered all of that mulishly paranoid behavior to begin with. [[spoiler: if you play Dark side and female, he will make a last-ditch attempt to turn you back, saying that he loves you and doesn't care about all of the horrible things you've done.]] All of this becomes more probable if you assume the kind of empathy and influence that mark a Force-bond.
* In [=KotOR 2=], The Jedi Master on Nar Shaadaa tells the Exile that to break a Force-bond, "your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to dieó but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply be empty, a wound." Later in the game if you've set Revan to light-side female, an obviously distraught Carth asserts that he would know if Revan (who has absconded to the Unknown Regions) were dead, and that "there's this emptiness where she used to be."

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* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly form between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force Force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.
* Carth's (uncannily accurate) instincts about the weirdness of the PlayerCharacter's situation and predictions of his/her behavior hint that they share some kind of unusual connection. Despite sporting paranoia as a defining characteristic, Carth comes to trust him/her implicitly, spilling his entire life story and [[spoiler: assuming a female Revan, falling in love with her]], even after figuring out that, in a former life, Revan was the primary force behind the destruction of his home planet, the death of his wife and disappearance of his son, which engendered all of that mulishly paranoid behavior to begin with. [[spoiler: if you play Dark side Side and female, he will make a last-ditch attempt to turn you back, saying that he loves you and doesn't care about all of the horrible things you've done.]] All of this becomes more probable if you assume the kind of empathy and influence that mark a Force-bond.
* In [=KotOR 2=], The Jedi Master on Nar Shaadaa tells the Exile that to break a Force-bond, "your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to dieó but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply be empty, a wound." Later in the game if you've set Revan to light-side Light Side female, an obviously distraught Carth asserts that he would know if Revan (who has absconded to the Unknown Regions) were dead, and that "there's this emptiness where she used to be."



Revan's alias after losing his memory was Kobet Katarn, and shortly before Revan's departure and imprisonment, he and Bastila Shan secretly got married and had a child. After Revan's imprisonment by the Sith Emperor, Bastila took care of Revan's son, Vaner Shan, whose descendants eventually took the "Katarn" surname after Revan's alias. Eventually, their family line led to the Jedi Master Tal--who, like Revan, had children who were sent into hiding--and even further still, Morgan and Kyle Katarn. This also explains how Kyle was so susceptible to the dark energy of the Sith temple on Dromund Kaas, which most likely contained the spirit of the Sith Emperor, who recognized Kyle as Revan's descendant and tried to corrupt him as he did Revan. Kyle was eventually rescued from the Sith Emperor's thrall by Mara Jade. After the dark side ending to Jedi Knight, Kyle--now the new Emperor--would take up his ancestor's mantle and proclaim himself the new Darth Revan.

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Revan's alias after losing his memory was Kobet Katarn, and shortly before Revan's departure and imprisonment, he and Bastila Shan secretly got married and had a child. After Revan's imprisonment by the Sith Emperor, Bastila took care of Revan's son, Vaner Shan, whose descendants eventually took the "Katarn" surname after Revan's alias. Eventually, their family line led to the Jedi Master Tal--who, like Revan, had children who were sent into hiding--and even further still, Morgan and Kyle Katarn. This also explains how Kyle was so susceptible to the dark energy of the Sith temple on Dromund Kaas, which most likely contained the spirit of the Sith Emperor, who recognized Kyle as Revan's descendant and tried to corrupt him as he did Revan. Kyle was eventually rescued from the Sith Emperor's thrall by Mara Jade. After the dark side Dark Side ending to Jedi Knight, Kyle--now the new Emperor--would take up his ancestor's mantle and proclaim himself the new Darth Revan.



When I heard Freyyr describe the terentatek as a creature only a few survived an encounter with and nobody having succeeded in killing it, I braced myself for quite a tough fight, but then it went down rather easily. Ha, I thought smugly, some beast, I can't believe nobody killed it before me. And then I spent about half an hour battling with the terentatek-gas-cloud-causes-the-game-to-crash bug, finally having to give up and go down the dark side path with this quest. Apparently, in my version of the game no one was ever able to kill this terentatek because its death immediately obliterates that version of the universe where it happened.


to:

When I heard Freyyr describe the terentatek as a creature only a few survived an encounter with and nobody having succeeded in killing it, I braced myself for quite a tough fight, but then it went down rather easily. Ha, I thought smugly, some beast, I can't believe nobody killed it before me. And then I spent about half an hour battling with the terentatek-gas-cloud-causes-the-game-to-crash bug, finally having to give up and go down the dark side Dark Side path with this quest. Apparently, in my version of the game no one was ever able to kill this terentatek because its death immediately obliterates that version of the universe where it happened.




The fall of Dantooine shattered his mind and he fell to the dark side after the events of KOTOR, becoming a puppet master of the Jedi Council in KOTOR II.

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The fall of Dantooine shattered his mind and he fell to the dark side Dark Side after the events of KOTOR, becoming a puppet master of the Jedi Council in KOTOR II.



* Both the other Jedi Masters you talk to are both friendly, apologetic and repentant for their actions. Then they meet up with Vrook, and suddenly have a FaceHeelTurn, following Vrook's policy of allowing the Sith to proceed unchecked. Coincidence? No, Vrook talked them into it with a mixture of subtle deceit and force-fuelled mind control using his superior Consular powers. Even if you attempt to excise this corrupting influence, his shadowy machinations extend so far that his two stooges are tricked into thinking that you attacked Vrook, not the other way round, and fight you themselves.

to:

* Both the other Jedi Masters you talk to are both friendly, apologetic and repentant for their actions. Then they meet up with Vrook, and suddenly have a FaceHeelTurn, following Vrook's policy of allowing the Sith to proceed unchecked. Coincidence? No, Vrook talked them into it with a mixture of subtle deceit and force-fuelled Force-fuelled mind control using his superior Consular powers. Even if you attempt to excise this corrupting influence, his shadowy machinations extend so far that his two stooges are tricked into thinking that you attacked Vrook, not the other way round, and fight you themselves.



* What do the Jedi Masters do throughout the two games? Not much. At all. What have these two likely been doing? Being a better Jedi than all of them put together. The idea the Masters were afraid is touched on (Exile claims this of Atris, Zez-Kai Ell admits it and Kreia describes them as such.) Revan and the Exile don't have to go far out of their way to be light sided enough to be hailed a saint. And to a large extent the Mandalorian Wars showed the Jedi as impotent. The reason Revan is scared? Exile is hated? Jealousy, they are better Jedi than the Masters could ever hope to be, unless you played an utter dick, with a fraction of the effort they seem capable of.

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* What do the Jedi Masters do throughout the two games? Not much. At all. What have these two likely been doing? Being a better Jedi than all of them put together. The idea the Masters were afraid is touched on (Exile claims this of Atris, Zez-Kai Ell admits it and Kreia describes them as such.) Revan and the Exile don't have to go far out of their way to be light Light sided enough to be hailed a saint. And to a large extent the Mandalorian Wars showed the Jedi as impotent. The reason Revan is scared? Exile is hated? Jealousy, they are better Jedi than the Masters could ever hope to be, unless you played an utter dick, with a fraction of the effort they seem capable of.



* The evidence is there. You have the choice of having your character speculate that perhaps all the Star Map planets were not always as they were. Tatooine may not have always been a desert. Manaan might not have once been an entirely water planet. Kashyyyk could once have been a much more average planet. The Star Map on Korriban may even be responsible for why the planet is so strong in the dark side. Even Dantooine might have been affected: it seems to be in a state of perpetual autumn, with decaying grass and colourless fields. Then why is it green again in the sequel, you ask? As a bit of FridgeBrilliance - it is likely the Star Maps deactivated along with the destruction of the Star Forge. Five years later? Dantooine is in spring at last.

to:

* The evidence is there. You have the choice of having your character speculate that perhaps all the Star Map planets were not always as they were. Tatooine may not have always been a desert. Manaan might not have once been an entirely water planet. Kashyyyk could once have been a much more average planet. The Star Map on Korriban may even be responsible for why the planet is so strong in the dark side.Dark Side. Even Dantooine might have been affected: it seems to be in a state of perpetual autumn, with decaying grass and colourless fields. Then why is it green again in the sequel, you ask? As a bit of FridgeBrilliance - it is likely the Star Maps deactivated along with the destruction of the Star Forge. Five years later? Dantooine is in spring at last.
26th Dec '17 9:54:25 PM chamo
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* What do the Jedi Masters do throughout the two games? Not much. At all. What have these two likely been doing? Being a better Jedi than all of them put together. The idea the Masters were afraid is touched on (Exile claims this of Atris, Zez Kai El admits it and Kreia describes them as such.) Revan and the Exile don't have to go far out of their way to be light sided enough to be hailed a saint. And to a large extent the Mandalorian Wars showed the Jedi as impotent. The reason Revan is scared? Exile is hated? Jealousy, they are better Jedi than the Masters could ever hope to be, unless you played an utter dick, with a fraction of the effort they seem capable of.

to:

* What do the Jedi Masters do throughout the two games? Not much. At all. What have these two likely been doing? Being a better Jedi than all of them put together. The idea the Masters were afraid is touched on (Exile claims this of Atris, Zez Kai El Zez-Kai Ell admits it and Kreia describes them as such.) Revan and the Exile don't have to go far out of their way to be light sided enough to be hailed a saint. And to a large extent the Mandalorian Wars showed the Jedi as impotent. The reason Revan is scared? Exile is hated? Jealousy, they are better Jedi than the Masters could ever hope to be, unless you played an utter dick, with a fraction of the effort they seem capable of.
26th Dec '17 9:44:54 PM chamo
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When I heard Freyyr describe the terentatek as a creature only a few survived an encounter with to be able to describe and nobody having succeeded in killing, I braced myself for quite a tough fight, but then it went down rather easily. Ha, I thought smugly, some beast, I can't believe nobody killed it before me. And then I spent about half an hour battling with the terentatek-gas-cloud-causes-the-game-to-crash bug, finally having to give up and go down the dark side path with this quest. Apparently, in my version of the game noone was ever able to kill this terentatek because its death immediately obliterates that version of the universe where it happened.


to:

When I heard Freyyr describe the terentatek as a creature only a few survived an encounter with to be able to describe and nobody having succeeded in killing, killing it, I braced myself for quite a tough fight, but then it went down rather easily. Ha, I thought smugly, some beast, I can't believe nobody killed it before me. And then I spent about half an hour battling with the terentatek-gas-cloud-causes-the-game-to-crash bug, finally having to give up and go down the dark side path with this quest. Apparently, in my version of the game noone no one was ever able to kill this terentatek because its death immediately obliterates that version of the universe where it happened.

26th Dec '17 9:40:37 PM chamo
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* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly be formed between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.

to:

* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly be formed form between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.
26th Dec '17 9:40:15 PM chamo
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* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.

to:

* [=KotOR 2=] establishes that Force-bonds are most likely to suddenly be formed between Force-sensitive people in life-threatening situations. See above for the evidence of Carth's force sensitivity. Being among a [[SoleSurvivor handful of survivors]] of a Sith-boarded cruiser and having Carth haul the PlayerCharacter's intermittently-conscious butt into hiding from a crashed escape pod on a blockaded, heavily-patrolled world probably counts as sufficiently life-threatening.
26th Dec '17 9:38:34 PM chamo
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* Also in the [=KotOR=] comics, When Zayne recieves a vision that allows him to accurately predict the Mandalorians' bombardment of Serroco, Zayne tries in vain to give Karath and the Republic fleet advanced warning of the attack to allow them to defend the civilian alien population of the planet. No one else takes him him seriously -Zayne's friends blow him off. Karath, convinced that Zayne is a Mandalorian spy, has him thrown in the brig. Carth, armed with another of his odd hunches, calls tornado warnings in to as many weather stations on the planet as he can reach, causing many of the natives to evacuate to underground bunkers and escape the worst of the blitz.

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* Also in the [=KotOR=] comics, When Zayne recieves a vision that allows him to accurately predict the Mandalorians' bombardment of Serroco, Zayne tries in vain to give Karath and the Republic fleet advanced warning of the attack to allow them to defend the civilian alien population of the planet. No one else takes him him seriously -Zayne's seriously-Zayne's friends blow him off. Karath, convinced that Zayne is a Mandalorian spy, has him thrown in the brig. Carth, armed with another of his odd hunches, calls tornado warnings in to as many weather stations on the planet as he can reach, causing many of the natives to evacuate to underground bunkers and escape the worst of the blitz.
26th Dec '17 9:36:53 PM chamo
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* And again in the second game, if Revan is set as male, Carth tells Bastilla that meeting the Exile has convinced him that "there are worse things to lose". The only other non-Jedi to display awareness of the Exile's emptiness, Chodo Habat, explicitly identifies himself as force-sensitive.
* At Ajunta Pal's tomb, the only two non-Jedi party members who comment on seeing the Sith ghost are Carth and HK-47. HK remarks that he detects something strange on his sensors. Carth can not only see the ghost, but ''understand what he's saying.''

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* And again in the second game, if Revan is set as male, Carth tells Bastilla Bastila that meeting the Exile has convinced him that "there are worse things to lose". The only other non-Jedi to display awareness of the Exile's emptiness, Chodo Habat, explicitly identifies himself as force-sensitive.
* At Ajunta Pal's Pall's tomb, the only two non-Jedi party members who comment on seeing the Sith ghost are Carth and HK-47. HK remarks that he detects something strange on his sensors. Carth can not only see the ghost, but ''understand what he's saying.''
14th Apr '17 12:14:30 AM DoctorNeoRaptor
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* Does that mean that we might get a Darth Carth in some non-canon story?



* Does that mean that we might get a Darth Carth in some non-canon story?

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* Does that mean that we might get a Darth Carth in some non-canon story?
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