History WMG / AliceInWonderland

8th Apr '16 2:11:50 AM Morgenthaler
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[[folder: General Guesses]]



It explains why when she appears in other Disney media she's always single or flirting with other men (Mortimer Mouse in House of Mouse, Luxord in the Kingdom Hearts manga). It's a little strange but you would believe this queen would do that.

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[[folder: Guesses specific to the Tim Burton film]]

[[WMG: The White Queen ''was'' a ManipulativeBitch]]
As a kid, she used the WoundedGazelleGambit and tearful eyes to get everything she wanted and blame it on her aggressive older sister (she probably tortured animals too, hence her vow). However, White eventually grew out of it and matured while Red held on to the grudge and got worse, which cost her the kingdom of Underland.
* An alternative version of mine was that she is a reincarnation of the [[Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia White Witch]] and at first was indeed [[LightIsNotGood evil]] if not outright tyrannical, but changed prior to the Red Queen's own tyrannical turn, maybe because she knew she would invade years to come and "played nice" to give a good impression. Now that the Red Queen is out of the way the White Queen can show how she really is...
** So I'm not the only person who feared White was a VillainWithGoodPublicity!
* Whilst both Iracebeth and Mirana were bad, because Mirana was a lot more manipulative and Iracebeth was a [[{{Understatement}} little less subtle]] about it, Mirana got the crown and Iracebeth went completely batshit, killing their parents and going on a [[UnstoppableRage murderous rampage]]. Mirana - who still had a bit of good in her, or who had started to [[BecomingTheMask become the mask]] - realised that this was what she might have become, and hid the darkness away. She surrounded herself with sweetness and light and did her best to convince everyone and herself that she was as far from her sister as possible.
** Supported by Anne Hathaway, the actress who plays her. Her dark fingernails, lips and eyes are meant to be a visual hint that, despite all the pure white clothes and smiles, there's still darkness in there.

[[WMG: The entire film is an opium trip]]
Alice, pressured from being a nineteen year old woman in the 1800s falls back on her old habits of her childhood experimentation with opium, the darker Wonderland is symbolic of her growing up and natural cynicism. This is also what her company exports to China ([[FridgeBrilliance The movie taking place at the same time as the Opium Wars]]

[[WMG: Alice goes to China but decides not to import... [[ThisIsYourPremiseOnDrugs whatever it is her company imports]] because she is enamored with Kung Fu.]]
Not a lot of "sane" Englishwomen would want to learn martial arts, would they? And then [[Literature/PrideAndPrejudiceAndZombies the "unmentionables"]] start showing up...
* [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ...now that's a sequel I WANT to see!]]

[[WMG: She never makes it to China. The sequel is just a gender-reversed version of Literature/GulliversTravels]]

See? I told you Burton was a macrophile!

[[WMG: Captain Jack Sparrow eventually returned to England when he could not find the Fountain of Youth, and discovered that killing time was a viable means of immortality in Underland.]]
Ms. Kingsley reminds him of that girl from a long, long time ago, before he went to Underland and changed his [[strike: pirate]]captain's hat for a top hat, and may or may not necessarily have been a blood relative or direct descendant thereof. Of course, murdering time while in the presence of the Red Queen is a tea-timeable offense, and I think everyone knows what happened afterwards.

[[WMG: Underland is a region bordering [[Literature/{{Neverwhere}} London Below]].]]
The time compression differs (one has a nearly 1:1 ratio with England Above, one... doesn't), but the [[UnPerson UnPersoning]] is still linked to the amount of "outside" time that passes. Underland is likely a [[Literature/{{Discworld}} high-magic zone]], as opposed to London Below which has little more than that which is sustained by its inhabitants, hence the increased strangeness and temporo-spatial differences. The Looking-Glass World near Underland is only accessible by someone who has been to England Below prior to finding one of the portal mirrors, and the UnPerson Effect of the Looking Glass world is much more pronounced. Perhaps the chaos level of the Looking-Glass World is due to a higher level of background magic than London Below, but a lower level than Underland?

[[WMG: The White Knight lives.]]
After he was seemingly killed in the flashback, he retired from his place as champion and gave up his title due to the shame of losing [[spoiler: the vorpal sword]]. He then moved to a nearby area of the White Queen's domain as the appointed Gatekeeper, went quietly senile (possibly ''before'' his appointment as Gatekeeper), and designed a suit of armor made from pots and pans before having an escalating war with his next-door neighbor.
** [[Film/MontyPythonAndTheHolyGrail "It's only a flesh wound."]]

[[WMG: The Queen of Hearts is the Red Queen's sister or half-sister, as well as the White Queen's.]]
Either Lady Crim, Queen of Hearts killed off the Red Queen first, the Red Queen is too busy running her part of the country after the Red King was [[spoiler: put into checkmate]] to join in on the fray, or a three-sided battle is no place for a chess army regardless of the tactical advantage.

[[WMG: The Red Queen killed the Queen of Hearts, thus fusing with her]]
Because when Chess People kill another Chess Person in ''Through The Looking Glass'', they become them. The Queen of Hearts was a Queen; but not of Chess; so the transformation wasn't "kosher" and drove the Red Queen of Hearts crazy.
* This is why the White Queen has a vow not to kill anything; she knows what will happen.
** This is also why nobody killed anyone in the final battle; they were really trying to avoid it because the transformation would have been bad. Alice killing the Jabberwock didn't count; because the Jabberwock would eventually regenerate. (IE, his eternal battle against the Vorpal Sword indicates this has happened before.)


[[WMG: The Knights are [[Franchise/FinalFantasy Dragoons]].]]
[[JumpPhysics Because they have to be]]. Also, they carry [[strike: lances/pikes/spears/glaives/[[OverlyLongGag guisarmes/volges/guisarm-volges/glaive-glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaives]]]] long pointy things used for poking people to death or smacking them with the flat... And those helmets!

[[WMG: The battle between the White Queen and the Red Queen is a battle between chaos and order.]]
The Red Queen: Living things, change, difference, foraging and simpering to the queen's whims, card games. The White Queen: Potions (made of formerly-living things), status quo, [[AdaptationalAttractiveness Anne Hathaway]], standing around and looking pretty, chess. It does, of course, come back to bite the Red Queen [[spoiler: though not literally]].

[[WMG: W/underland is a coping mechanism, and not real in any meaningful way.]]
Alice ''is'' mad. Entirely bonkers. But I'll tell you a secret: All the best [[strike: opium lords]][[spoiler: [[strike: trade baron suffragettes]]]]people are.
* What about the Bandersnatch scratch?
Also, about the opium, rememember way back in the beginning, when HER FATHER was a merchant? No one seems to remember that.
** [[spoiler: Also the Futterwacken, unless your implying that Alice is so ridiculously insane she can learn things like how to breakdance from HER OWN HALLUCINATIONS.]]
*** It's not like she's any good at it.Her dance was around back then, just in the sort of dance theater where attendees can see the dancers' knees]].
*** Really now? She's only 19, unless your saying she was a stripper WHEN SHE WAS 18 OR LESS. I don't even think that was legal back then. Or now.
*** No, just saying that [[StylisticSuck her version]] was a dance back then, though qualifying that it was only for certain contexts rather than general partying. She never learned how to breakdance.
*** Her version was exactly the same but just with the nonsensical leg movements. Or did the Victorians learn to move their legs and twist their ankles like that without [[TheWonderland Under]][[WorldOfChaos land]]?

[[WMG: The White Queen and King of Hearts were having an affair.]]
You heard Her Majesty yourself, "[[OffWithHisHead Had too,]] he would have left me." Plus Whitey can make anyone fall in love with her, including men, [[EvenTheGirlsWantHer woman,]] [[CargoShip furniture,]]. Since Whitey stole her husband Red used the Jabberwocky to steal her kingdom.
* What a bitch[[note]]The White Queen, that is[[/note]].
** [[VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry Furniture cannot love.]] [[ImARealBoy When they feel love, they are no longer furniture.]]

[[WMG: The White Queen is the reason her sister is such a bloody big head.]]
Someone else said it first on this site, can't find it, but the White Queen is responsible for the shrinking and growth potions. Before the recipe was mastered she must have tested it on her sister which caused her head to triple in size and shattered her sanity. Their parents were so repulsed by their eldest they begun favoring their spare and made her heir instead. The White Princess, horrified by what she'd done to her big sister, started to control her sinister impulses from that day on.
* Upon reading this WMG and the above, doesn't this make the Red Queen a real {{Woobie}}?

[[WMG: The Cheshire Cat is the true ruler of Wonderland/Underland, if not a god.]]
In one shot in the film his face appears around the moon. Plus, he does seem like he knows everything to happen but he hides it from averyone else, giving them mysterious gestures instead.
* This makes a lot of sense, actually. It would certainly explain his power which seems unequaled by any being in Wonderland/Underland. A possibility would be that the Cat is a kind of elemental force, a physical embodiment of the very spirit of Wonderland. Chaotic and insane, half there and half not there.
** To elaborate on this, the Jabberwock might be an EvilCounterpart to him, the physical manifestation of everything WRONG with Wonderland. That would explain why he sticks with the Red Queen though nobody else will. He is not her servant, She is HIS. A creature of concentrated Evil, the Jabberwock just wants to see the realm bleed and the Red Queen helps him in this endeavor.
* Another backing example to the god theory is how pissed the Hatter gets at the Chesire Cat ''simply for not being around'' when the Red Queen took over. Also, the Cat crowns the White Queen, and in just about every monarchy, it used to be believed that royalty is a deity's mandate.

[[WMG: The White Queen is a StepfordSmiler.]]
If insanity in her family is something of a hereditary trait (exhibited and embraced by the Red Queen), White's entire lifestyle is a massive put-on to disguise the fact that she is absolutely terrified of becoming like her sister. [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} The floaty personality]], [[FriendToAllLivingThings the intense kindness]] and general PuritySue-ishness behavior is to put on an acceptable exterior for the people around her. All the while White wonders how much longer she can keep the act up before the SanitySlippage leads to a FreakOut and possibly a FaceHeelTurn.

[[WMG: The Cheshire Cat had a hand in the Red Queen's coup of Underland]]
Being very much a ChaoticGood-leaning {{Trickster}}, the Cat most definitely does a few things from time to time that irritate people. It could have been anything, a comment or an action, that began a series of events that caused the Red Queen to overthrow the White Queen. He may not know it, or if he does, want to admit it. This is what the Hatter was alluding to when the Cat showed up for tea.
* The Visual Guide says the Cheshire Cat was the guardian animal of the Mad Hatter's family (who themselves were Underlandian aristocrats of some sort) and he bailed on them when the Jabberwock was sent to destroy their home.

[[WMG: Stayne wasn't trying to kill the Red Queen...]]
He was trying to kill ''himself.''
* This. It makes sense. Much sense. The Queen's just ''that'' self-centered, and since he begged for death once the knife was taken...
* This Troper honestly believed that was his intention while watching the movie, and will still argue that is the case even now. That and, only the Queen was the one to say that "he was trying to kill me" which isn't something you can honestly believe in. For someone that self-centred, you can't consider her a reliable source for information. Also, the begging for death comes to mind...
* Yeah, that's what I immediately assumed when I saw him draw that knife. I didn't realize it was ''supposed'' to be him murdering the Queen until I went online afterward. I still think that's what he really wanted.

[[WMG: Not only is this not the first time Alice has been to Underland, it's not the second, either... and it won't be the last.]]
Alice's recurring dreams were actually repeated visits there, each time instigating a change in power from one Queen to the other. When Alice says that she'll come back and the Hatter protests that she won't remember, he is speaking from experience: she never does. The cycle simply repeats itself, varying mostly in the details and in how much farther Underland has fallen from the cleaner, prettier, more idyllic version that she visited the first time.
* OMG! That makes sense!
* My personal headcanon always was that the first book ''was'' Alice's first trip to Wonderland--but she went back many more times after that, and by the time ''Through The Looking Glass'' rolled around (six months later) she had gotten used to it, explaining why she's much more smart and chill about being in a dream world by that time.

[[WMG: On her trading voyages she will meet a girl with a similar experience to hers.]]
Her Name is Wendy Darling and she will tell Alice about her adventures in another alternate world, Neverland.
* Each world has a protector. A maiden of the purest heart. A Princess of Heart. Neverland has one. Wonderland has one. Together, these worlds form a magical universe known only as...Franchise/KingdomHearts
* Somebody fanfic this!
** [[Creator/AlanMoore Done]] [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor and]] [[Comicbook/LostGirls done]].
** Done with [[Film/TheWizardOfOz Dorothy]] [[Webcomic/CheshireCrossing here]].

[[WMG: Alice can travel between worlds/dreams which is why "Underland" is falling apart.]]
The books actually happened: Alice traveled to Wonderland then later through the looking glass, unfortunately as she was a little girl and unaware of her powers she left travel "holes" in the fabric between worlds that allowed things to slip through (which is why she still had dreams about what was happening in the places without going there).
It was through these holes that The Red Queen arrived in Wonderland, an act that created further cracks inbetween the worlds that deepened the moment she defeated and merged with The Queen of Hearts (see previous WMG).

While the fusing of Red and Heart made the complete fixing of the worlds impossible, they would have still stayed two different places and been fairly okay had The Red Queen not, in a fit of paranoia, killed The Red King. As The King was the Dreamer of the Dream (as suggested in Through the Looking Glass) and the only one who could thus keep order his death caused the two worlds to ''smash'' together rearranging themselves into the "Underland" that Alice falls into in the film.

This warped and slowing shattering world can not be saved, everything Alice did will not heal the cracks. Hatter being both mad and the only one to be given the idea of being a dream is aware of the cracks and the fact that once Alice leaves the world is doomed.
The Butterfly coming through to our world was the last straw that made the whole thing collapse.

* So Alice has the ability to [[VideoGame/Eversion evert through worlds]]?
* So Alice is a WMG/TimeLord?

[[WMG: The Red Queen is also the Queen of Hearts by marriage.]]
We know there was a king, of course, we see his head floating in the river. My theory is that he was the King of Hearts in his own right, and she was the Red Queen of Underland in ''her'' own right, and their marriage brought the two titles together. (This is part of my fanfic-in-progress.)

[[WMG: Iracebeth's real title is the Queen of Hearts.]]
She has card guards for soldiers instead of chess pieces, aswell as Stayne being the Knave of Hearts, and in general all the mannerisms that the Queen of Hearts in the story had. I think that she either changed her title to contrast with her sister's title, or she could have defeated the real Red Queen and decided to steal her title upon conquering Underland.

[[WMG: Hamish never wanted to marry Alice.]]
He didn't seem like he was hiding his negative feelings for her. He is very stiff and seems pained whilst he was dancing with her, wasn't the least bit interested in her [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} flights of fancy]], seemed hasty in departing from her when his strict mother beckoned him and acted uncomfortable and was hesitant when proposing to her. I suspect that he only went through with the proposal because of his mother's ruthless character, sense of duty or because of the links in his father's trading company.

[[WMG: The whole thing was just a nightmare after listening to too much Tom Petty.]]
----
You'd have to be mad as a Hatter to survive this place!
----
[[WMG: The vocaloid song Alice of Human Sacrifice is...]]
About the Alice's who came before ''the'' Alice. And the Alice we see is not the Alice of any color, but the Absolute Alice, who is made of many colors. I believe that somewhere near the beginning of the movie, there was a line something like, "She's the wrong one!" That suggests there was more than one Alice. 4 others actually. Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow. If you've heard the song, you know these Alice's all met their demise horribly. But this one survived, which is why she isn't in the song.

More proof is at the beginning of the movie, when Alice first falls down the rabbit hole, she tries to open some doors. This would be unimportant unless you look closely. First off, there are four, the amount of Alice's there are in the song. Second, If you look closely at the third door, it has something that looks a bit like a crown on it, and the third Alic became queen of her own country. Third, the last door was double doors, and as we all know, the fouth Alice was twins.
* I always thought the song implied that the Alice of the story came first, which is why newcomers in Wonderland are referred to as Alices.
** Alice first entered Wonderland when she was about 6. The movie states that it takes place 13 years later, when Alice is 19. During this 13 year time difference, the White Rabbit could've brought back the "Alices" from the song while trying to find the right one. They were all wrong, and were thus unfit to survive in Wonderland. Going a bit further with this theory, the Third Alice temporarily overthrew the Red Queen, but soon became corrupt. Either the Red Queen somehow reclaimed her throne, or the Red Queen in the movie is the Third Alice in disguise. As for the others, I'm not sure.

[[WMG: Neither the Red Queen nor the White Queen are truly good nor evil. Instead, each is one of the [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost True Fae]], and their battle is just one more campaign for the Title of Queen of the Underland.]]
The various armored knights, talking animals, etc. are Changelings, Wisps, or Hobgoblins.

[[WMG: Alice is a nudist at heart.]]

I couldnt help but think she was a little to calm and collected when she grew out of her clothes in front of the queen and her people. and when you think at both her free spirited/defiant nature towards things sociably acceptable(especially her refusal to wear certain proper formal wear to the party) it would make sense

[[WMG: Wonderland is Film/TheNeverendingStory and Alice can get there by dreaming]]
Explains itself. White Queen= Childlike Empress, Red Queen= Xayide.

[[WMG: The Mad Hatter's whole family is dead.]]
In the Hatter's flashback, he says something like, "It was tradition for the Hightopp clan to be employed in the court." In the middle of the Jabberwocky attack, there's a girl who falls to the ground and looks up at the Jabberwocky. This troper thinks the girl bears some resemblance to the Mad Hatter. Sister? Cousin?

* [[Series/OnceUponATime Grace?]]
* [[Franchise/EverAfterHigh Madeline?]]

Think about it. Not everyone was lucky enough to escape.

[[WMG: This film is a sequel to the Disney animated film.]]
It has the same name, but it's based on Through the Looking Glass, and it's produced by the same company.

* I for one always assumed this film is a direct sequel to the animated Disney film and the reason for any inconsistencies, the fact that it has a more coherent plot, and the fact that it is darker, is because Alice is older and therefore her dreams would make more sense than before and be darker than before. Or underland isn't a dream and she just understands things better now that she's older.
** Considering the state that Alice's friends are in in the 2010 version, this theory is actually [[TearJerker pretty depressing]]; the Tweedles went from lovable bumblers to dancing for the Queen to avoid beheading. The Dodo, who was vivacious and lively in the first film is old and decrepit here. The Mad Hatter and the March Hare are more insane than normal (and ''not'' in a good way), the Dormouse was hardened into a warrior, the Flowers lost a lot of their colors and Absolem was a butterfly at the end of the first one and here...well, he [[FridgeHorror doesn't gain wings until the end.]] The White Rabbit and Cheshire Cat are pretty much the same, although Chessur is probably not allowed to sing ''Literature/{{Jabberwocky}}'' anymore, for obvious reasons...
*** Actually, The White Rabbit has changed as well. He seems more willing to oppose the [[Main/GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Red Queen]], but I guess the Queen's [[Main/MoralEventHorizon constantly escalating crimes]] [[Main/ThisisUnforgivable horrified him]] enough to make him [[Main/HeelFaceTurn switch sides.]]

[[WMG: The third film will be based on ''Literature/TheHuntingOfTheSnark'']]
They're going to try to make a trilogy out of this, and ''The Hunting of the Snark'' is the closest thing to a third Wonderland story Lewis Carroll wrote

[[/folder]]

to:

It explains why when she appears in other Disney media she's always single or flirting with other men (Mortimer Mouse in House of Mouse, Luxord in the Kingdom Hearts manga). It's a little strange but you would believe this queen would do that.

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Guesses specific to the Tim Burton film]]

[[WMG: The White Queen ''was'' a ManipulativeBitch]]
As a kid, she used the WoundedGazelleGambit and tearful eyes to get everything she wanted and blame it on her aggressive older sister (she probably tortured animals too, hence her vow). However, White eventually grew out of it and matured while Red held on to the grudge and got worse, which cost her the kingdom of Underland.
* An alternative version of mine was that she is a reincarnation of the [[Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia White Witch]] and at first was indeed [[LightIsNotGood evil]] if not outright tyrannical, but changed prior to the Red Queen's own tyrannical turn, maybe because she knew she would invade years to come and "played nice" to give a good impression. Now that the Red Queen is out of the way the White Queen can show how she really is...
** So I'm not the only person who feared White was a VillainWithGoodPublicity!
* Whilst both Iracebeth and Mirana were bad, because Mirana was a lot more manipulative and Iracebeth was a [[{{Understatement}} little less subtle]] about it, Mirana got the crown and Iracebeth went completely batshit, killing their parents and going on a [[UnstoppableRage murderous rampage]]. Mirana - who still had a bit of good in her, or who had started to [[BecomingTheMask become the mask]] - realised that this was what she might have become, and hid the darkness away. She surrounded herself with sweetness and light and did her best to convince everyone and herself that she was as far from her sister as possible.
** Supported by Anne Hathaway, the actress who plays her. Her dark fingernails, lips and eyes are meant to be a visual hint that, despite all the pure white clothes and smiles, there's still darkness in there.

[[WMG: The entire film is an opium trip]]
Alice, pressured from being a nineteen year old woman in the 1800s falls back on her old habits of her childhood experimentation with opium, the darker Wonderland is symbolic of her growing up and natural cynicism. This is also what her company exports to China ([[FridgeBrilliance The movie taking place at the same time as the Opium Wars]]

[[WMG: Alice goes to China but decides not to import... [[ThisIsYourPremiseOnDrugs whatever it is her company imports]] because she is enamored with Kung Fu.]]
Not a lot of "sane" Englishwomen would want to learn martial arts, would they? And then [[Literature/PrideAndPrejudiceAndZombies the "unmentionables"]] start showing up...
* [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ...now that's a sequel I WANT to see!]]

[[WMG: She never makes it to China. The sequel is just a gender-reversed version of Literature/GulliversTravels]]

See? I told you Burton was a macrophile!

[[WMG: Captain Jack Sparrow eventually returned to England when he could not find the Fountain of Youth, and discovered that killing time was a viable means of immortality in Underland.]]
Ms. Kingsley reminds him of that girl from a long, long time ago, before he went to Underland and changed his [[strike: pirate]]captain's hat for a top hat, and may or may not necessarily have been a blood relative or direct descendant thereof. Of course, murdering time while in the presence of the Red Queen is a tea-timeable offense, and I think everyone knows what happened afterwards.

[[WMG: Underland is a region bordering [[Literature/{{Neverwhere}} London Below]].]]
The time compression differs (one has a nearly 1:1 ratio with England Above, one... doesn't), but the [[UnPerson UnPersoning]] is still linked to the amount of "outside" time that passes. Underland is likely a [[Literature/{{Discworld}} high-magic zone]], as opposed to London Below which has little more than that which is sustained by its inhabitants, hence the increased strangeness and temporo-spatial differences. The Looking-Glass World near Underland is only accessible by someone who has been to England Below prior to finding one of the portal mirrors, and the UnPerson Effect of the Looking Glass world is much more pronounced. Perhaps the chaos level of the Looking-Glass World is due to a higher level of background magic than London Below, but a lower level than Underland?

[[WMG: The White Knight lives.]]
After he was seemingly killed in the flashback, he retired from his place as champion and gave up his title due to the shame of losing [[spoiler: the vorpal sword]]. He then moved to a nearby area of the White Queen's domain as the appointed Gatekeeper, went quietly senile (possibly ''before'' his appointment as Gatekeeper), and designed a suit of armor made from pots and pans before having an escalating war with his next-door neighbor.
** [[Film/MontyPythonAndTheHolyGrail "It's only a flesh wound."]]

[[WMG: The Queen of Hearts is the Red Queen's sister or half-sister, as well as the White Queen's.]]
Either Lady Crim, Queen of Hearts killed off the Red Queen first, the Red Queen is too busy running her part of the country after the Red King was [[spoiler: put into checkmate]] to join in on the fray, or a three-sided battle is no place for a chess army regardless of the tactical advantage.

[[WMG: The Red Queen killed the Queen of Hearts, thus fusing with her]]
Because when Chess People kill another Chess Person in ''Through The Looking Glass'', they become them. The Queen of Hearts was a Queen; but not of Chess; so the transformation wasn't "kosher" and drove the Red Queen of Hearts crazy.
* This is why the White Queen has a vow not to kill anything; she knows what will happen.
** This is also why nobody killed anyone in the final battle; they were really trying to avoid it because the transformation would have been bad. Alice killing the Jabberwock didn't count; because the Jabberwock would eventually regenerate. (IE, his eternal battle against the Vorpal Sword indicates this has happened before.)


[[WMG: The Knights are [[Franchise/FinalFantasy Dragoons]].]]
[[JumpPhysics Because they have to be]]. Also, they carry [[strike: lances/pikes/spears/glaives/[[OverlyLongGag guisarmes/volges/guisarm-volges/glaive-glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaives]]]] long pointy things used for poking people to death or smacking them with the flat... And those helmets!

[[WMG: The battle between the White Queen and the Red Queen is a battle between chaos and order.]]
The Red Queen: Living things, change, difference, foraging and simpering to the queen's whims, card games. The White Queen: Potions (made of formerly-living things), status quo, [[AdaptationalAttractiveness Anne Hathaway]], standing around and looking pretty, chess. It does, of course, come back to bite the Red Queen [[spoiler: though not literally]].

[[WMG: W/underland is a coping mechanism, and not real in any meaningful way.]]
Alice ''is'' mad. Entirely bonkers. But I'll tell you a secret: All the best [[strike: opium lords]][[spoiler: [[strike: trade baron suffragettes]]]]people are.
* What about the Bandersnatch scratch?
Also, about the opium, rememember way back in the beginning, when HER FATHER was a merchant? No one seems to remember that.
** [[spoiler: Also the Futterwacken, unless your implying that Alice is so ridiculously insane she can learn things like how to breakdance from HER OWN HALLUCINATIONS.]]
*** It's not like she's any good at it.Her dance was around back then, just in the sort of dance theater where attendees can see the dancers' knees]].
*** Really now? She's only 19, unless your saying she was a stripper WHEN SHE WAS 18 OR LESS. I don't even think that was legal back then. Or now.
*** No, just saying that [[StylisticSuck her version]] was a dance back then, though qualifying that it was only for certain contexts rather than general partying. She never learned how to breakdance.
*** Her version was exactly the same but just with the nonsensical leg movements. Or did the Victorians learn to move their legs and twist their ankles like that without [[TheWonderland Under]][[WorldOfChaos land]]?

[[WMG: The White Queen and King of Hearts were having an affair.]]
You heard Her Majesty yourself, "[[OffWithHisHead Had too,]] he would have left me." Plus Whitey can make anyone fall in love with her, including men, [[EvenTheGirlsWantHer woman,]] [[CargoShip furniture,]]. Since Whitey stole her husband Red used the Jabberwocky to steal her kingdom.
* What a bitch[[note]]The White Queen, that is[[/note]].
** [[VisualNovel/UminekoWhenTheyCry Furniture cannot love.]] [[ImARealBoy When they feel love, they are no longer furniture.]]

[[WMG: The White Queen is the reason her sister is such a bloody big head.]]
Someone else said it first on this site, can't find it, but the White Queen is responsible for the shrinking and growth potions. Before the recipe was mastered she must have tested it on her sister which caused her head to triple in size and shattered her sanity. Their parents were so repulsed by their eldest they begun favoring their spare and made her heir instead. The White Princess, horrified by what she'd done to her big sister, started to control her sinister impulses from that day on.
* Upon reading this WMG and the above, doesn't this make the Red Queen a real {{Woobie}}?

[[WMG: The Cheshire Cat is the true ruler of Wonderland/Underland, if not a god.]]
In one shot in the film his face appears around the moon. Plus, he does seem like he knows everything to happen but he hides it from averyone else, giving them mysterious gestures instead.
* This makes a lot of sense, actually. It would certainly explain his power which seems unequaled by any being in Wonderland/Underland. A possibility would be that the Cat is a kind of elemental force, a physical embodiment of the very spirit of Wonderland. Chaotic and insane, half there and half not there.
** To elaborate on this, the Jabberwock might be an EvilCounterpart to him, the physical manifestation of everything WRONG with Wonderland. That would explain why he sticks with the Red Queen though nobody else will. He is not her servant, She is HIS. A creature of concentrated Evil, the Jabberwock just wants to see the realm bleed and the Red Queen helps him in this endeavor.
* Another backing example to the god theory is how pissed the Hatter gets at the Chesire Cat ''simply for not being around'' when the Red Queen took over. Also, the Cat crowns the White Queen, and in just about every monarchy, it used to be believed that royalty is a deity's mandate.

[[WMG: The White Queen is a StepfordSmiler.]]
If insanity in her family is something of a hereditary trait (exhibited and embraced by the Red Queen), White's entire lifestyle is a massive put-on to disguise the fact that she is absolutely terrified of becoming like her sister. [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} The floaty personality]], [[FriendToAllLivingThings the intense kindness]] and general PuritySue-ishness behavior is to put on an acceptable exterior for the people around her. All the while White wonders how much longer she can keep the act up before the SanitySlippage leads to a FreakOut and possibly a FaceHeelTurn.

[[WMG: The Cheshire Cat had a hand in the Red Queen's coup of Underland]]
Being very much a ChaoticGood-leaning {{Trickster}}, the Cat most definitely does a few things from time to time that irritate people. It could have been anything, a comment or an action, that began a series of events that caused the Red Queen to overthrow the White Queen. He may not know it, or if he does, want to admit it. This is what the Hatter was alluding to when the Cat showed up for tea.
* The Visual Guide says the Cheshire Cat was the guardian animal of the Mad Hatter's family (who themselves were Underlandian aristocrats of some sort) and he bailed on them when the Jabberwock was sent to destroy their home.

[[WMG: Stayne wasn't trying to kill the Red Queen...]]
He was trying to kill ''himself.''
* This. It makes sense. Much sense. The Queen's just ''that'' self-centered, and since he begged for death once the knife was taken...
* This Troper honestly believed that was his intention while watching the movie, and will still argue that is the case even now. That and, only the Queen was the one to say that "he was trying to kill me" which isn't something you can honestly believe in. For someone that self-centred, you can't consider her a reliable source for information. Also, the begging for death comes to mind...
* Yeah, that's what I immediately assumed when I saw him draw that knife. I didn't realize it was ''supposed'' to be him murdering the Queen until I went online afterward. I still think that's what he really wanted.

[[WMG: Not only is this not the first time Alice has been to Underland, it's not the second, either... and it won't be the last.]]
Alice's recurring dreams were actually repeated visits there, each time instigating a change in power from one Queen to the other. When Alice says that she'll come back and the Hatter protests that she won't remember, he is speaking from experience: she never does. The cycle simply repeats itself, varying mostly in the details and in how much farther Underland has fallen from the cleaner, prettier, more idyllic version that she visited the first time.
* OMG! That makes sense!
* My personal headcanon always was that the first book ''was'' Alice's first trip to Wonderland--but she went back many more times after that, and by the time ''Through The Looking Glass'' rolled around (six months later) she had gotten used to it, explaining why she's much more smart and chill about being in a dream world by that time.

[[WMG: On her trading voyages she will meet a girl with a similar experience to hers.]]
Her Name is Wendy Darling and she will tell Alice about her adventures in another alternate world, Neverland.
* Each world has a protector. A maiden of the purest heart. A Princess of Heart. Neverland has one. Wonderland has one. Together, these worlds form a magical universe known only as...Franchise/KingdomHearts
* Somebody fanfic this!
** [[Creator/AlanMoore Done]] [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor and]] [[Comicbook/LostGirls done]].
** Done with [[Film/TheWizardOfOz Dorothy]] [[Webcomic/CheshireCrossing here]].

[[WMG: Alice can travel between worlds/dreams which is why "Underland" is falling apart.]]
The books actually happened: Alice traveled to Wonderland then later through the looking glass, unfortunately as she was a little girl and unaware of her powers she left travel "holes" in the fabric between worlds that allowed things to slip through (which is why she still had dreams about what was happening in the places without going there).
It was through these holes that The Red Queen arrived in Wonderland, an act that created further cracks inbetween the worlds that deepened the moment she defeated and merged with The Queen of Hearts (see previous WMG).

While the fusing of Red and Heart made the complete fixing of the worlds impossible, they would have still stayed two different places and been fairly okay had The Red Queen not, in a fit of paranoia, killed The Red King. As The King was the Dreamer of the Dream (as suggested in Through the Looking Glass) and the only one who could thus keep order his death caused the two worlds to ''smash'' together rearranging themselves into the "Underland" that Alice falls into in the film.

This warped and slowing shattering world can not be saved, everything Alice did will not heal the cracks. Hatter being both mad and the only one to be given the idea of being a dream is aware of the cracks and the fact that once Alice leaves the world is doomed.
The Butterfly coming through to our world was the last straw that made the whole thing collapse.

* So Alice has the ability to [[VideoGame/Eversion evert through worlds]]?
* So Alice is a WMG/TimeLord?

[[WMG: The Red Queen is also the Queen of Hearts by marriage.]]
We know there was a king, of course, we see his head floating in the river. My theory is that he was the King of Hearts in his own right, and she was the Red Queen of Underland in ''her'' own right, and their marriage brought the two titles together. (This is part of my fanfic-in-progress.)

[[WMG: Iracebeth's real title is the Queen of Hearts.]]
She has card guards for soldiers instead of chess pieces, aswell as Stayne being the Knave of Hearts, and in general all the mannerisms that the Queen of Hearts in the story had. I think that she either changed her title to contrast with her sister's title, or she could have defeated the real Red Queen and decided to steal her title upon conquering Underland.

[[WMG: Hamish never wanted to marry Alice.]]
He didn't seem like he was hiding his negative feelings for her. He is very stiff and seems pained whilst he was dancing with her, wasn't the least bit interested in her [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} flights of fancy]], seemed hasty in departing from her when his strict mother beckoned him and acted uncomfortable and was hesitant when proposing to her. I suspect that he only went through with the proposal because of his mother's ruthless character, sense of duty or because of the links in his father's trading company.

[[WMG: The whole thing was just a nightmare after listening to too much Tom Petty.]]
----
You'd have to be mad as a Hatter to survive this place!
----
[[WMG: The vocaloid song Alice of Human Sacrifice is...]]
About the Alice's who came before ''the'' Alice. And the Alice we see is not the Alice of any color, but the Absolute Alice, who is made of many colors. I believe that somewhere near the beginning of the movie, there was a line something like, "She's the wrong one!" That suggests there was more than one Alice. 4 others actually. Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow. If you've heard the song, you know these Alice's all met their demise horribly. But this one survived, which is why she isn't in the song.

More proof is at the beginning of the movie, when Alice first falls down the rabbit hole, she tries to open some doors. This would be unimportant unless you look closely. First off, there are four, the amount of Alice's there are in the song. Second, If you look closely at the third door, it has something that looks a bit like a crown on it, and the third Alic became queen of her own country. Third, the last door was double doors, and as we all know, the fouth Alice was twins.
* I always thought the song implied that the Alice of the story came first, which is why newcomers in Wonderland are referred to as Alices.
** Alice first entered Wonderland when she was about 6. The movie states that it takes place 13 years later, when Alice is 19. During this 13 year time difference, the White Rabbit could've brought back the "Alices" from the song while trying to find the right one. They were all wrong, and were thus unfit to survive in Wonderland. Going a bit further with this theory, the Third Alice temporarily overthrew the Red Queen, but soon became corrupt. Either the Red Queen somehow reclaimed her throne, or the Red Queen in the movie is the Third Alice in disguise. As for the others, I'm not sure.

[[WMG: Neither the Red Queen nor the White Queen are truly good nor evil. Instead, each is one of the [[TabletopGame/ChangelingTheLost True Fae]], and their battle is just one more campaign for the Title of Queen of the Underland.]]
The various armored knights, talking animals, etc. are Changelings, Wisps, or Hobgoblins.

[[WMG: Alice is a nudist at heart.]]

I couldnt help but think she was a little to calm and collected when she grew out of her clothes in front of the queen and her people. and when you think at both her free spirited/defiant nature towards things sociably acceptable(especially her refusal to wear certain proper formal wear to the party) it would make sense

[[WMG: Wonderland is Film/TheNeverendingStory and Alice can get there by dreaming]]
Explains itself. White Queen= Childlike Empress, Red Queen= Xayide.

[[WMG: The Mad Hatter's whole family is dead.]]
In the Hatter's flashback, he says something like, "It was tradition for the Hightopp clan to be employed in the court." In the middle of the Jabberwocky attack, there's a girl who falls to the ground and looks up at the Jabberwocky. This troper thinks the girl bears some resemblance to the Mad Hatter. Sister? Cousin?

* [[Series/OnceUponATime Grace?]]
* [[Franchise/EverAfterHigh Madeline?]]

Think about it. Not everyone was lucky enough to escape.

[[WMG: This film is a sequel to the Disney animated film.]]
It has the same name, but it's based on Through the Looking Glass, and it's produced by the same company.

* I for one always assumed this film is a direct sequel to the animated Disney film and the reason for any inconsistencies, the fact that it has a more coherent plot, and the fact that it is darker, is because Alice is older and therefore her dreams would make more sense than before and be darker than before. Or underland isn't a dream and she just understands things better now that she's older.
** Considering the state that Alice's friends are in in the 2010 version, this theory is actually [[TearJerker pretty depressing]]; the Tweedles went from lovable bumblers to dancing for the Queen to avoid beheading. The Dodo, who was vivacious and lively in the first film is old and decrepit here. The Mad Hatter and the March Hare are more insane than normal (and ''not'' in a good way), the Dormouse was hardened into a warrior, the Flowers lost a lot of their colors and Absolem was a butterfly at the end of the first one and here...well, he [[FridgeHorror doesn't gain wings until the end.]] The White Rabbit and Cheshire Cat are pretty much the same, although Chessur is probably not allowed to sing ''Literature/{{Jabberwocky}}'' anymore, for obvious reasons...
*** Actually, The White Rabbit has changed as well. He seems more willing to oppose the [[Main/GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Red Queen]], but I guess the Queen's [[Main/MoralEventHorizon constantly escalating crimes]] [[Main/ThisisUnforgivable horrified him]] enough to make him [[Main/HeelFaceTurn switch sides.]]

[[WMG: The third film will be based on ''Literature/TheHuntingOfTheSnark'']]
They're going to try to make a trilogy out of this, and ''The Hunting of the Snark'' is the closest thing to a third Wonderland story Lewis Carroll wrote

[[/folder]]
that.
23rd Mar '16 9:09:38 AM ObsidianFire
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* My personal headcanon always was that the first book ''was'' Alice's first trip to Wonderland--but she went back many more times after that, and by the time ''Through The Looking Glass'' rolled around (six months later) she had gotten used to it, explaining why she's much more GenreSavvy and chill about being in a dream world by that time.

to:

* My personal headcanon always was that the first book ''was'' Alice's first trip to Wonderland--but she went back many more times after that, and by the time ''Through The Looking Glass'' rolled around (six months later) she had gotten used to it, explaining why she's much more GenreSavvy smart and chill about being in a dream world by that time.
17th Feb '16 11:25:57 AM Redmane
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Wonderland is real, and after the events of the Disney movie the Queen murdered her husband.]]
It explains why when she appears in other Disney media she's always single or flirting with other men (Mortimer Mouse in House of Mouse, Luxord in the Kingdom Hearts manga). It's a little strange but you would believe this queen would do that.
7th Feb '16 3:45:41 PM Doug86
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* An alternative version of mine was that she is a reincarnation of the [[{{Narnia}} White Witch]] and at first was indeed [[LightIsNotGood evil]] if not outright tyrannical, but changed prior to the Red Queen's own tyrannical turn, maybe because she knew she would invade years to come and "played nice" to give a good impression. Now that the Red Queen is out of the way the White Queen can show how she really is...

to:

* An alternative version of mine was that she is a reincarnation of the [[{{Narnia}} [[Literature/TheChroniclesOfNarnia White Witch]] and at first was indeed [[LightIsNotGood evil]] if not outright tyrannical, but changed prior to the Red Queen's own tyrannical turn, maybe because she knew she would invade years to come and "played nice" to give a good impression. Now that the Red Queen is out of the way the White Queen can show how she really is...
29th Dec '15 8:44:38 PM Willbyr
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Yes certainly [[KingdomHearts Princess Alice]] hasn't grown up in over a hundred years thus can exist in both 1865 (anime/book/movie of Alice in Wonderland) as well as 1991 (television series Adventures in Wonderland). They are the same girl, simply adopted into a new family in second scenerio.

to:

Yes certainly [[KingdomHearts [[Franchise/KingdomHearts Princess Alice]] hasn't grown up in over a hundred years thus can exist in both 1865 (anime/book/movie of Alice in Wonderland) as well as 1991 (television series Adventures in Wonderland). They are the same girl, simply adopted into a new family in second scenerio.



* Each world has a protector. A maiden of the purest heart. A Princess of Heart. Neverland has one. Wonderland has one. Together, these worlds form a magical universe known only as...KingdomHearts

to:

* Each world has a protector. A maiden of the purest heart. A Princess of Heart. Neverland has one. Wonderland has one. Together, these worlds form a magical universe known only as...KingdomHeartsFranchise/KingdomHearts
29th Dec '15 3:05:04 PM IAmNotBeast
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: The third film will be based on ''Literature/TheHuntingOfTheSnark'']]
They're going to try to make a trilogy out of this, and ''The Hunting of the Snark'' is the closest thing to a third Wonderland story Lewis Carroll wrote
6th Nov '15 8:48:29 AM VigilantSycamore
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* Whilst both Iracebeth and Mirana were bad, because Mirana was a lot more manipulative and Iracebeth was a [[Understatement little less subtle]] about it, Mirana got the crown and Iracebeth went completely batshit, killing their parents and going on a [[UnstoppableRage murderous rampage]]. Mirana - who still had a bit of good in her, or who had started to [[Become The Mask]] - realised that this was what she might have become, and hid the darkness away. She surrounded herself with sweetness and light and did her best to convince everyone and herself that she was as far from her sister as possible.

to:

* Whilst both Iracebeth and Mirana were bad, because Mirana was a lot more manipulative and Iracebeth was a [[Understatement [[{{Understatement}} little less subtle]] about it, Mirana got the crown and Iracebeth went completely batshit, killing their parents and going on a [[UnstoppableRage murderous rampage]]. Mirana - who still had a bit of good in her, or who had started to [[Become The Mask]] [[BecomingTheMask become the mask]] - realised that this was what she might have become, and hid the darkness away. She surrounded herself with sweetness and light and did her best to convince everyone and herself that she was as far from her sister as possible.
4th Nov '15 10:51:02 AM AwesomeGuy345
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4th Nov '15 10:51:00 AM AwesomeGuy345
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[/folder]]

to:

[/folder]][[/folder]]
4th Nov '15 10:49:34 AM AwesomeGuy345
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*** Actually, The White Rabbit has changed as well. He seems more willing to oppose the [[Main/GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Red Queen]], but I guess the Queen's [[Main/MoralEventHorizon constantly escalating crimes]] [[Main/ThisisUnforgivable horrified him]] enough to make him [[Main/Heel-FaceTurn switch sides.]]

to:

*** Actually, The White Rabbit has changed as well. He seems more willing to oppose the [[Main/GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Red Queen]], but I guess the Queen's [[Main/MoralEventHorizon constantly escalating crimes]] [[Main/ThisisUnforgivable horrified him]] enough to make him [[Main/Heel-FaceTurn [[Main/HeelFaceTurn switch sides.]]]]
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