History WMG / ASongOfIceAndFirePartII

20th Dec '15 10:05:12 PM taylorlou
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** That dream does relate specifically to the Starks; Sansa and Arya are watched over by the two figures, in the shadow of the giant.
17th Oct '15 11:51:31 AM JulianLapostat
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** WordOfGod said that it's not a one-to-one adaptation of history. Here the Lannisters have the upper hand whereas in history, the Lancasters were losing and it took Yorkist factional strife to make them a threat. The three Yorkist brothers are closest to the Baratheons with Robert (elder Edward IV), Renly (George Clarence) and Stannis as Richard III. Eventually in history, the last Yorkist-Plantagenet King Richard III lost at the Battle of Bosworth, so GRRM who obviously likes the Yorks wants to spin that into a new direction in some fashion. And he likes Richard III so much there are four of them (Ned, Theon, Stannis and Tyrion) in his cast of DecompositeCharacter.

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** I can't see Jaime as King, he's a man dedicated to service. To him other people's goals are his goals, whether it's his father's, his sister's or the Kingsguard and it's only recently he's taking action. After everything he's seen and done I can't see a man less suited to royal service.
17th Oct '15 11:27:55 AM TheMightyHeptagon
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* Not to mention the series' historical basis in the UsefulNotes/WarsOfTheRoses. Plenty of people have pointed out that Robb Stark has tons of parallels with the historical King Edward IV, as he was a young noble who entered the wars to avenge his slain father, and jeopardized his reign with an impulsive marriage to a woman with few political ties. Edward IV also had his throne usurped by his enemies--with most people considering his reign at an end--but he surprised everyone by making a triumphant return and taking back the throne in the Battle of Tewkesbury. Robb might be KilledOffForReal, but the Starks making a triumphant return would logically parallel the Yorkists doing the same.

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* By the same reasoning, you could argue that the Starks' staunchest living enemy, Jaime Lannister, is a pretty damn good candidate for the role of King of Westeros by the end of the series. For all of the guy's obvious flaws and misdeeds, tell me that "The King with the Golden Hand" isn't the perfect basis for a mythic hero.
16th Oct '15 8:04:28 PM nombretomado
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But not by Dany and her dragons. The explosion will be caused by Aegon and his armies invading and conquering King's Landing. In a panic, peasants desperately trying to escape the invasion will wander underground with their torches lit and accidentally activate the long forgotten caches of "Aerys' fruit." Just as Aegon sits on the Iron Throne with Jon Connington proudly looking on, the entire city explodes into smithereens. The much coveted Iron Throne is blown to bits, leaving the surviving cast with a big feeling of [[NowWhat "Now what?"]] Also prompting Jaime to fall to his knees, screaming [[PlanetOfTheApes "You maniacs! You blew it up!"]]
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But not by Dany and her dragons. The explosion will be caused by Aegon and his armies invading and conquering King's Landing. In a panic, peasants desperately trying to escape the invasion will wander underground with their torches lit and accidentally activate the long forgotten caches of "Aerys' fruit." Just as Aegon sits on the Iron Throne with Jon Connington proudly looking on, the entire city explodes into smithereens. The much coveted Iron Throne is blown to bits, leaving the surviving cast with a big feeling of [[NowWhat "Now what?"]] Also prompting Jaime to fall to his knees, screaming [[PlanetOfTheApes [[Film/PlanetOfTheApes1968 "You maniacs! You blew it up!"]]
26th Sep '15 2:47:04 PM aurora369
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* None of the known, named attackers is a frackin' new guy. Bowen Marsh is a veteran. Wick Wittlestick was first mentioned in AFFC as already serving on the Wall, not recently arriving from King's Landing.
21st Sep '15 1:10:27 PM MrThorfan64
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At one point before Robert's Rebellion,Prince Rhaegar sang a song to a crowd that purportedly reduced Lyanna Stark to tears. We haven't yet been told what said song was about. Not too long after, Rhaegar disappeared with Lyanna. If the theory that Lyanna and Rhaegar were truly in love is true, then what kind of song could make Lyanna cry? A metaphorical song that anyone else listening wouldn't understand: [[TitleDrop a song of ice and fire.]] [[WMG: Character Endings/General Ending theories]] A few speculations on how the characters end up and how the story ends: • Daenerys comes to Westeros with Victarion and Tyrion, defeats Stannis and the Lannisters and claims the Iron Throne, Barristan Selmy dying in the process. Aegon turns out to be genuine, and he and Daenerys try to rule together but disputes erupt when she refuses to marry him. War between them breaks out which Dany wins, but allows Aegon to live on Dragonstone with his new wife Arianne Martell, even naming their son her heir since she can’t have children. • Tyrion claims Lordship of Casterly Rock, but the other houses of the Westerlands turn on him. Tyrion wins the resulting battle, but loses his life. He names Bronn as his heir, with the condition that his son Tyrion takes over when he dies. • Jon Snow survives, and defeats the Others with the help of Daenerys, Bran and Samwell Tarly (who discovered a secret about the Others in a secret library of Oldtown which proves key to their defeat). Jon finds out about his true parentage from Coldhands, who turns out to be Benjen Stark. He refuses to rule with Daenerys as he prefers being Jon Snow, he travels north and becomes the next King-beyond-the-Wall. • Bran joins the Nights Watch, eventually becoming Lord Commander. • Stannis will die killing a dragon. Because he’s just awesome like that. • Arya returns to Westeros with a new face and ends up being the valonqar who kills Cersei, finishing her death list, is captured and killed. • Tommen and Myrcella die, perhaps when Daenerys takes Kings Landing • Jaime is arrested, demands trial by combat, but loses. Brienne, heartbroken, devotes her life to finding Arya Stark, and becomes known as the Wandering Knight. • Melisandre flees east with Shireen when Stannis dies. • Victarion and Euron turn on each other, with both of them and Theon dying in the process. Asha claims that the Kingsmoot wasn’t valid since Theon wasn’t there, and since no-one else is left with a legitimate claim Asha becomes ruler of the Iron Isles. • Sansa marries Harold Hardying and takes the North with the knights of the Vale, defeating the Boltons. She refuses the North when she finds out that Rickon is alive, making him Lord of Winterfell and betraying Littlefinger in the process. She returns to the Vale and rules with her new husband. • Davos returns Rickon to Winterfell, and upon learning that Stannis is dead, decides he has had enough of war, takes his family and settles down in Winterfell under Rickon’s protection. • Walder Frey dies of old age. Catelyn, furious that she has been denied her revenge, goes on an even bloodier killing spree across Westeros before being stopped by Jaime, Stannis or Jon Snow The series ends with a Distant Finale. The king of Westeros (Aegon’s grandson) receives three letters. The first informs him that the conflicts in the Iron Isles after Asha Greyjoy’s death have escalated to a full blown Civil War between the Greyjoy cousins and House Drumm. The second warns him that Shireen’s descendants are mustering support in the East, aiming to take back the Iron Throne in the Baratheon name. The third is from the North, and simply says ‘Winter is Coming’. [[WMG: Dragonstone is a Supervolcano that will erupt plunging Westeros into Nuclear Winter]] Playing off of the theory that the Doom of Valyria was a massive caldera or supervolcano, Dragonstone could likewise be a a figure that's bound to erupt, causing major weather changes that are in tune with the theme of winter. And with the nuclear winter such an event would cause, it would also give even more power to the Others, which thrive on the cold. [[WMG: Timmett On-Eye/ son of Timmett will rule the Vale of Arryn]] Buried in Littlefinger's extremely long explanation of why Harry is the heir to the Vale is that one of the older sisters was carried off by Burned Men, the same tribe Timmett is from. If Timmett father of Timmett was married to that woman, he could technically be the heir to the vale before Harry. Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale were somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy. It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that Timmett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her. [[WMG: On Valyrian dragonhorns.]] The horns that the Valyrian dragonlords controlled weren't actually magic, they just trained their dragons to respond to signals from ordinary blowing horns. Their enemies thought that it wasn't possible for beings such as dragons to be controlled by mundane means and came up with the idea that the horns themselves were magical. The Valyrians themselves encouraged this idea since it gave them a sense of mystique and supernatural power. Dragonbinder, the only dragonhorn actually seen in the series thus far, is nothing more than a red herring created by the Valyrians to obfuscate the issue of dragon taming (the key to their power) and discourage anyone from trying to do so. It's also noteworthy that the Targaryens were able to use dragons for over two centuries after the Doom, and there's no mention of them using dragonhorns to control them. * An astute observation, but I think you have it backwards. They may have continued to have dragons, but they also built the Dragonpit to keep them in. Hasn't anyone ever wondered why? It was apparently not done in Valyria of old, and even if it wasn't known to begin with it must have become clear soon enough that it harmed them - my guess is that over time and generations, it ultimately killed them.\\ Dragons live for many human generations, we're told: were any of the tame dragons born and raised after the Doom? There was certainly at least one dragon - Silverwing - besides the three ridden by the Conqueror and his sisters that was tamed and ridden, but it's possible she/it and maybe others were brought from Valyria too. Perhaps hatchlings, too small to be ridden yet?\\ I don't suppose the horn has to be used every time you give the dragon a command: more likely it's used one to bind a dragon to your will forevermore. Since the horn is claimed with the blood of the person who wants to control the dragons, someone else who shares their blood will also be able to command them: any Targaryen would have been able to control the original Targaryen dragons, even without still having the horn, so there is something to that Blood of the Dragon business. Possibly it was necessary to keep that blood pure to do so, or maybe the Targaryens just weren't taking any chances, but I'll bet that's the reason for the incest tradition. Of course, the new dragons have never yet been bound by any horn, so ''Targaryen'' blood is likely to be irrelevant, though it's possible the three heads of the dragon will have to be related.\\ But the horns were all lost or left with the Doom, so when the Conqueror and his descendants bred new dragons in Westeros they were faced with the same problem as Dany - and solved it in the same way, to their eventual downfall. [[WMG: The Dance of the Dragons will begin anew...]] ...between Aegon VI and Daenerys Stormborn, the last scions of House Targaryen. After all, the Iron Throne only seats one. So lets take a look at the strengths and weaknesses on both sides. (Apologies for big blocks of text, contains SPOILERS for the books) '''The Right'''; by every precedent and custom Young Griff is the lawful heir of Aerys II, being the old king's trueborn grandson. While Daenerys is the Mad King's daughter by Queen Rhaella, House Targaryen practices agnatic succession which places all female beneficiaries behind behind the males. Thus Dany is, of all things, a ''usurper'' for claiming that which belongs solely to Aegon. Except there is no guarantee that Young Griff is Aegon VI, and that will play havoc when he tries to recruit followers in Westeros. Daenerys, by contrast, suffers from no such aspersions against her pedigree. '''The Might'''; Dany is overwhelmingly powerful in this respect. What with commanding the only living dragons in existence? Pity she can't actually command them. Truth be told, she's rather frightened of them at this point. So she has to fall back on her Unsullied, her freed slaves, and her inconsequentially small ''khalasar''. Knowing the attitudes and mores of the Westerosi, slaves and freed slaves will likely make the same difference to the knights and lords and smallfolk, and especially the Faith. Aegon is backed by the Golden Company; a combined arms legion of professional mercenaries ten thousand strong and the finest fighting force in the world exceeded only by the Unsullied. If Aegon can convince his kin, the Martells, of the truth of his identity than he can also can also count on Dornish support. Bear in mind that the Dornish are one of the few powers in Westeros still not ravaged by the War of the Five Kings. They're fresh. * That being said, it is worth noting that the Golden Company is fighting for land, not just gold, as many counted among its number are Westerosi exiles or descended from Weserosi exiles. Bad for Aegon in the middle term, as the knights and lords of Westeros will quickly realize they have the most to lose in the face of a victorious dragonking who will need to confiscate and redistribute vast lands and powerful titles to the satisfaction of his officers (I can easily see Connington becoming the new Lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands) and to the begrudging of the losers. '''The Sextereotype'''; ASOIAF takes place in a medieval fantasy world and just like the real one, there is a deep and uncompromising bias against female leadership. Witness the tribulations and mortification of Sansa, Cersei, Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Margaery, and others based exclusively around their sex. Observe Samwell, who is viciously and mercilessly mocked for emasculating behavior. The only female character who does not suffer for her sexuality is Arianne. So while Daenerys might have hatched dragons, she is still going to have to overcome the unconscious prejudice of the thousands of war-mad, bloody-minded men who rule the realm in the name of the Iron Throne. It goes without saying that Aegon has all the bits and pieces necessary to be part of the boys' club, so this is a solid win for him. [[WMG:The Great houses all represent classic elements]] So basiccally this theory is that in the age of heroes and the age of the Andals the great houses all had supernatural powers associated with classic elements and here they are Stark-Ice: Brandon the builder was able to create the wall which is hundreds of feet of Ice and snow they say he got help from Giants but the tallest giants in the series arent even 20 feet tall so it would make more sense if Brandon could control the ice Arryn-Wind: The Arryns have a great fortress in the sky and it is amazingly well defended but seems a bit impractical and annoying especially for the King of the Vale so my theory is that at one time the Arryns could fly and that is why they were able to have such an impractical seat Lannister-Earth: they control the largest gold mine in Westeros and their seat is Casterly ROCK, which looks and works like a medieval Mt.Cheyenne. Gardener-Wood: The Gardeners came before the Tyrells in ruling the Reach which if I remember correctly is full of good farmland so my theory is this was due to the Gardener presence Durrandon-Lightning: This is the house that preceded the Baratheons in ruling the STORM land from STORM'S end Martell-Fire: They live in the hottest region of Westeros and like spicy food Mudd-Water: This is the house that used to rule the riverlands possibly they used their control of water to help expand the rivers throughout their kingdom Greyjoy-Metal: They are pretty big on paying the IRON price Basically long before the start of the series the great houses had amazing abilities but they faded because most magic faded from Westeros the Targaryens, Tyrells, Tullys, and Baratheons don't have elements because they all gained their seats relatively recently * Both Martells and Greyjoys are also relatively new as Lords Paramount. Martells only became important after one of them married Princess Nymeria of the Rhoynar. Greyjoys are far from being the only descendants of the Grey King, and only became Lords Paramount after the Targaryen Conquest, same as Tullys. [[WMG:The double meanings of the song The Rains of Castamere]] The Rains of Castamere is a song telling the story of a failed rebellion by house Reyne against the Lannisters. But if you analyse the song it looks like it is foretelling the rise and fall of the Lannisters and more specifically Cersei herself. Lets take a look at it piece by piece; "And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?": The Lannisters were the second most powerful house in Westeros and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful the Baratheons. Cersei was the second most powerful person in Westeros (its queen) and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful Robert the king. "Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know.": Cersei despite being a woman is still a noble and therefore sees not real difference between herself and the other nobles trying for the throne. "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws,": the colors of the Lannisters is a golden lion on a red field and the colors of the Baratheons is a back stag on a golden field, that means that it does not matter what her name is or what colors she has to fly, she is and always will be a lion. "And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours.": She is very deadly and dangerous, just as much as any other noble in court. The rest of the song talks about the death of the Reynes and those parts have yet to happen to Cersei or the rest of the Lannisters but I bet at some point Cersei will be crying over the destruction of her house and family and no one will be a round to hear her. [[WMG: The dragons returning did not cause magic to grow in strength.]] And the dragons disappearing did not cause magic to fade. Rather it is exactly the other way around: magic fading caused the dragons to grow weaker and sicklier (ultimately causing their demise in Westeros, if perhaps with some help from Maesters who just as many others had gotten which affected which the wrong way around), and magic growing in strength again allowed Daenerys' dragon eggs to be hatched (in the right circumstances). Dragons being a rather... ''dramatic'' indicator of the strength of magic, people have confused cause and effect. [[WMG: Joanna didn't die in childbirth--Tywin killed her]] Tywin obviously has a problem with accepting Tyrion as his son, and he was already aware of Aerys' lust for Joanna and possibly jealous as well as pissed off. So when he found out that his younger son was born deformed, he took it as an evidence of Joanna's unfaithfulness and he either a) lost his mind in rage or b) actually cold-bloodedly decided that Joanna deserved death for betrayal. It seems all the more likely since we found out just before his death, Tywin was neither a man of such high principles nor the faithfully grieving widower as he wanted to seem. ** Considering how much Tywin hates Tyrion, if he suspected he was illegitimate wouldn't he have disinherited him by now? [[WMG: Macumba]] Nothing old Nan has said is not true so I predict at the end of Song of Spring when the final epic battle is about to go down it will zoom out and it will turn out the whole world is really just happening inside the eye of a giant named Macumba, which actually perfectly explains why the sky is blue if you think about it. [[WMG: The Old Gods are the spirits of dead greenseers]] This might be one of those "well, duh," things, but we know that wargs can live on in their animals if they're killed while warging, and we know that greenseers can warg into weirwoods. Therefore, the Old Gods are actually the spirits of dead greenseers who died while warging into the trees, and the old religion is actually ancestor-worship. [[WMG: Bright Wings, Bright Words]] The Summer Islanders use parrots as carrier birds, just like the Westerosi use ravens. That's why all messages the Islanders receive are full of happiness and joy. [[WMG: Ramsay Bolton was sexually abused by Reek Classic.]] It might be a factor in his mistreatment of Reek Mk. 2 via Theon, or it might not be so much, but given the old Reek's apparent depravity and their codependently close partnership in crime, it seems possible. * In the books, Roose speculates, "Did Ramsay corrupt Reek, or did Reek corrupt Ramsay?" So he, at least, considers the possibility that some of the abuse may have gone the other way. [[WMG: The Boltons and the Redforts from the Vale are distantly related]] The Redforts could be an exiled cadet branch of the Boltons. Arguments for that: * The Boltons of old were called the Red Kings, and their castle is Dreadfort. After the Starks vassalized them, they ceased to use red as their "official color" and switched to pink. A junior Bolton who refused to bend the knee to the Starks could escape to the Vale and build a castle named after both Dreadfort and the official color of the house. Hence Redfort. * The Boltons and the Redforts were in particularly friendly relations during the events of the books; Roose Bolton's deceased son Domeric was sent to Redfort to train as a knight. The Boltons aren't exactly a bunch that can make friends, neither are they particular fans of knighthood; but having distant kin and having your son train from them is another thing. * The Redforts are First Men rather than Andals, unlike their overlords the Arryns. Boltons are First Men through and through. * The Redforts were strongly pro-Stark before the Red Wedding, during the time when the Boltons served the Starks. * Lord Horton Redfort enjoys a vague, but frightening reputation as a "dangerous man", he's also the silent, non-overt guy among the Lords Declarant. Could it be the same kind of reputation Roose Bolton has? [[WMG: Theon's Revenge]] When Theon will finally get his revenge on Ramsay, he will beat him up with a mace and yell: "Reek! Reek! It rhymes with BIG STICK!".
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At one point before Robert's Rebellion,Prince Rhaegar sang a song to a crowd that purportedly reduced Lyanna Stark to tears. We haven't yet been told what said song was about. Not too long after, Rhaegar disappeared with Lyanna. If the theory that Lyanna and Rhaegar were truly in love is true, then what kind of song could make Lyanna cry? A metaphorical song that anyone else listening wouldn't understand: [[TitleDrop a song of ice and fire.]] [[WMG: Character Endings/General Ending theories]] A few speculations on how the characters end up and how the story ends: • Daenerys comes to Westeros with Victarion and Tyrion, defeats Stannis and the Lannisters and claims the Iron Throne, Barristan Selmy dying in the process. Aegon turns out to be genuine, and he and Daenerys try to rule together but disputes erupt when she refuses to marry him. War between them breaks out which Dany wins, but allows Aegon to live on Dragonstone with his new wife Arianne Martell, even naming their son her heir since she can’t have children. • Tyrion claims Lordship of Casterly Rock, but the other houses of the Westerlands turn on him. Tyrion wins the resulting battle, but loses his life. He names Bronn as his heir, with the condition that his son Tyrion takes over when he dies. • Jon Snow survives, and defeats the Others with the help of Daenerys, Bran and Samwell Tarly (who discovered a secret about the Others in a secret library of Oldtown which proves key to their defeat). Jon finds out about his true parentage from Coldhands, who turns out to be Benjen Stark. He refuses to rule with Daenerys as he prefers being Jon Snow, he travels north and becomes the next King-beyond-the-Wall. • Bran joins the Nights Watch, eventually becoming Lord Commander. • Stannis will die killing a dragon. Because he’s just awesome like that. • Arya returns to Westeros with a new face and ends up being the valonqar who kills Cersei, finishing her death list, is captured and killed. • Tommen and Myrcella die, perhaps when Daenerys takes Kings Landing • Jaime is arrested, demands trial by combat, but loses. Brienne, heartbroken, devotes her life to finding Arya Stark, and becomes known as the Wandering Knight. • Melisandre flees east with Shireen when Stannis dies. • Victarion and Euron turn on each other, with both of them and Theon dying in the process. Asha claims that the Kingsmoot wasn’t valid since Theon wasn’t there, and since no-one else is left with a legitimate claim Asha becomes ruler of the Iron Isles. • Sansa marries Harold Hardying and takes the North with the knights of the Vale, defeating the Boltons. She refuses the North when she finds out that Rickon is alive, making him Lord of Winterfell and betraying Littlefinger in the process. She returns to the Vale and rules with her new husband. • Davos returns Rickon to Winterfell, and upon learning that Stannis is dead, decides he has had enough of war, takes his family and settles down in Winterfell under Rickon’s protection. • Walder Frey dies of old age. Catelyn, furious that she has been denied her revenge, goes on an even bloodier killing spree across Westeros before being stopped by Jaime, Stannis or Jon Snow The series ends with a Distant Finale. The king of Westeros (Aegon’s grandson) receives three letters. The first informs him that the conflicts in the Iron Isles after Asha Greyjoy’s death have escalated to a full blown Civil War between the Greyjoy cousins and House Drumm. The second warns him that Shireen’s descendants are mustering support in the East, aiming to take back the Iron Throne in the Baratheon name. The third is from the North, and simply says ‘Winter is Coming’. [[WMG: Dragonstone is a Supervolcano that will erupt plunging Westeros into Nuclear Winter]] Playing off of the theory that the Doom of Valyria was a massive caldera or supervolcano, Dragonstone could likewise be a a figure that's bound to erupt, causing major weather changes that are in tune with the theme of winter. And with the nuclear winter such an event would cause, it would also give even more power to the Others, which thrive on the cold. [[WMG: Timmett On-Eye/ son of Timmett will rule the Vale of Arryn]] Buried in Littlefinger's extremely long explanation of why Harry is the heir to the Vale is that one of the older sisters was carried off by Burned Men, the same tribe Timmett is from. If Timmett father of Timmett was married to that woman, he could technically be the heir to the vale before Harry. Of course, getting the lords of the vale to accept this would not be easy. Still, if the vale were somehow conquered by the mountain tribes, who've been mentioned as growing bolder and stronger several times, Timmett could both have a blood claim and be a powerful leader among the tribes, making him a good way to give the conquest of the Vale a veneer of legitimacy. It's also [[CrackPairing amusing to note]] that Timmett is a skilled fighter with a serious burn injury on his face, giving him a superficial similarity to a younger Sandor Clegane, and might well recognize Sansa if he saw her. [[WMG: On Valyrian dragonhorns.]] The horns that the Valyrian dragonlords controlled weren't actually magic, they just trained their dragons to respond to signals from ordinary blowing horns. Their enemies thought that it wasn't possible for beings such as dragons to be controlled by mundane means and came up with the idea that the horns themselves were magical. The Valyrians themselves encouraged this idea since it gave them a sense of mystique and supernatural power. Dragonbinder, the only dragonhorn actually seen in the series thus far, is nothing more than a red herring created by the Valyrians to obfuscate the issue of dragon taming (the key to their power) and discourage anyone from trying to do so. It's also noteworthy that the Targaryens were able to use dragons for over two centuries after the Doom, and there's no mention of them using dragonhorns to control them. * An astute observation, but I think you have it backwards. They may have continued to have dragons, but they also built the Dragonpit to keep them in. Hasn't anyone ever wondered why? It was apparently not done in Valyria of old, and even if it wasn't known to begin with it must have become clear soon enough that it harmed them - my guess is that over time and generations, it ultimately killed them.\\ Dragons live for many human generations, we're told: were any of the tame dragons born and raised after the Doom? There was certainly at least one dragon - Silverwing - besides the three ridden by the Conqueror and his sisters that was tamed and ridden, but it's possible she/it and maybe others were brought from Valyria too. Perhaps hatchlings, too small to be ridden yet?\\ I don't suppose the horn has to be used every time you give the dragon a command: more likely it's used one to bind a dragon to your will forevermore. Since the horn is claimed with the blood of the person who wants to control the dragons, someone else who shares their blood will also be able to command them: any Targaryen would have been able to control the original Targaryen dragons, even without still having the horn, so there is something to that Blood of the Dragon business. Possibly it was necessary to keep that blood pure to do so, or maybe the Targaryens just weren't taking any chances, but I'll bet that's the reason for the incest tradition. Of course, the new dragons have never yet been bound by any horn, so ''Targaryen'' blood is likely to be irrelevant, though it's possible the three heads of the dragon will have to be related.\\ But the horns were all lost or left with the Doom, so when the Conqueror and his descendants bred new dragons in Westeros they were faced with the same problem as Dany - and solved it in the same way, to their eventual downfall. [[WMG: The Dance of the Dragons will begin anew...]] ...between Aegon VI and Daenerys Stormborn, the last scions of House Targaryen. After all, the Iron Throne only seats one. So lets take a look at the strengths and weaknesses on both sides. (Apologies for big blocks of text, contains SPOILERS for the books) '''The Right'''; by every precedent and custom Young Griff is the lawful heir of Aerys II, being the old king's trueborn grandson. While Daenerys is the Mad King's daughter by Queen Rhaella, House Targaryen practices agnatic succession which places all female beneficiaries behind behind the males. Thus Dany is, of all things, a ''usurper'' for claiming that which belongs solely to Aegon. Except there is no guarantee that Young Griff is Aegon VI, and that will play havoc when he tries to recruit followers in Westeros. Daenerys, by contrast, suffers from no such aspersions against her pedigree. '''The Might'''; Dany is overwhelmingly powerful in this respect. What with commanding the only living dragons in existence? Pity she can't actually command them. Truth be told, she's rather frightened of them at this point. So she has to fall back on her Unsullied, her freed slaves, and her inconsequentially small ''khalasar''. Knowing the attitudes and mores of the Westerosi, slaves and freed slaves will likely make the same difference to the knights and lords and smallfolk, and especially the Faith. Aegon is backed by the Golden Company; a combined arms legion of professional mercenaries ten thousand strong and the finest fighting force in the world exceeded only by the Unsullied. If Aegon can convince his kin, the Martells, of the truth of his identity than he can also can also count on Dornish support. Bear in mind that the Dornish are one of the few powers in Westeros still not ravaged by the War of the Five Kings. They're fresh. * That being said, it is worth noting that the Golden Company is fighting for land, not just gold, as many counted among its number are Westerosi exiles or descended from Weserosi exiles. Bad for Aegon in the middle term, as the knights and lords of Westeros will quickly realize they have the most to lose in the face of a victorious dragonking who will need to confiscate and redistribute vast lands and powerful titles to the satisfaction of his officers (I can easily see Connington becoming the new Lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of the Stormlands) and to the begrudging of the losers. '''The Sextereotype'''; ASOIAF takes place in a medieval fantasy world and just like the real one, there is a deep and uncompromising bias against female leadership. Witness the tribulations and mortification of Sansa, Cersei, Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Margaery, and others based exclusively around their sex. Observe Samwell, who is viciously and mercilessly mocked for emasculating behavior. The only female character who does not suffer for her sexuality is Arianne. So while Daenerys might have hatched dragons, she is still going to have to overcome the unconscious prejudice of the thousands of war-mad, bloody-minded men who rule the realm in the name of the Iron Throne. It goes without saying that Aegon has all the bits and pieces necessary to be part of the boys' club, so this is a solid win for him. [[WMG:The Great houses all represent classic elements]] So basiccally this theory is that in the age of heroes and the age of the Andals the great houses all had supernatural powers associated with classic elements and here they are Stark-Ice: Brandon the builder was able to create the wall which is hundreds of feet of Ice and snow they say he got help from Giants but the tallest giants in the series arent even 20 feet tall so it would make more sense if Brandon could control the ice Arryn-Wind: The Arryns have a great fortress in the sky and it is amazingly well defended but seems a bit impractical and annoying especially for the King of the Vale so my theory is that at one time the Arryns could fly and that is why they were able to have such an impractical seat Lannister-Earth: they control the largest gold mine in Westeros and their seat is Casterly ROCK, which looks and works like a medieval Mt.Cheyenne. Gardener-Wood: The Gardeners came before the Tyrells in ruling the Reach which if I remember correctly is full of good farmland so my theory is this was due to the Gardener presence Durrandon-Lightning: This is the house that preceded the Baratheons in ruling the STORM land from STORM'S end Martell-Fire: They live in the hottest region of Westeros and like spicy food Mudd-Water: This is the house that used to rule the riverlands possibly they used their control of water to help expand the rivers throughout their kingdom Greyjoy-Metal: They are pretty big on paying the IRON price Basically long before the start of the series the great houses had amazing abilities but they faded because most magic faded from Westeros the Targaryens, Tyrells, Tullys, and Baratheons don't have elements because they all gained their seats relatively recently * Both Martells and Greyjoys are also relatively new as Lords Paramount. Martells only became important after one of them married Princess Nymeria of the Rhoynar. Greyjoys are far from being the only descendants of the Grey King, and only became Lords Paramount after the Targaryen Conquest, same as Tullys. [[WMG:The double meanings of the song The Rains of Castamere]] The Rains of Castamere is a song telling the story of a failed rebellion by house Reyne against the Lannisters. But if you analyse the song it looks like it is foretelling the rise and fall of the Lannisters and more specifically Cersei herself. Lets take a look at it piece by piece; "And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low?": The Lannisters were the second most powerful house in Westeros and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful the Baratheons. Cersei was the second most powerful person in Westeros (its queen) and no longer wanted to bow to the most powerful Robert the king. "Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know.": Cersei despite being a woman is still a noble and therefore sees not real difference between herself and the other nobles trying for the throne. "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws,": the colors of the Lannisters is a golden lion on a red field and the colors of the Baratheons is a back stag on a golden field, that means that it does not matter what her name is or what colors she has to fly, she is and always will be a lion. "And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours.": She is very deadly and dangerous, just as much as any other noble in court. The rest of the song talks about the death of the Reynes and those parts have yet to happen to Cersei or the rest of the Lannisters but I bet at some point Cersei will be crying over the destruction of her house and family and no one will be a round to hear her. [[WMG: The dragons returning did not cause magic to grow in strength.]] And the dragons disappearing did not cause magic to fade. Rather it is exactly the other way around: magic fading caused the dragons to grow weaker and sicklier (ultimately causing their demise in Westeros, if perhaps with some help from Maesters who just as many others had gotten which affected which the wrong way around), and magic growing in strength again allowed Daenerys' dragon eggs to be hatched (in the right circumstances). Dragons being a rather... ''dramatic'' indicator of the strength of magic, people have confused cause and effect. [[WMG: Joanna didn't die in childbirth--Tywin killed her]] Tywin obviously has a problem with accepting Tyrion as his son, and he was already aware of Aerys' lust for Joanna and possibly jealous as well as pissed off. So when he found out that his younger son was born deformed, he took it as an evidence of Joanna's unfaithfulness and he either a) lost his mind in rage or b) actually cold-bloodedly decided that Joanna deserved death for betrayal. It seems all the more likely since we found out just before his death, Tywin was neither a man of such high principles nor the faithfully grieving widower as he wanted to seem. ** Considering how much Tywin hates Tyrion, if he suspected he was illegitimate wouldn't he have disinherited him by now? [[WMG: Macumba]] Nothing old Nan has said is not true so I predict at the end of Song of Spring when the final epic battle is about to go down it will zoom out and it will turn out the whole world is really just happening inside the eye of a giant named Macumba, which actually perfectly explains why the sky is blue if you think about it. [[WMG: The Old Gods are the spirits of dead greenseers]] This might be one of those "well, duh," things, but we know that wargs can live on in their animals if they're killed while warging, and we know that greenseers can warg into weirwoods. Therefore, the Old Gods are actually the spirits of dead greenseers who died while warging into the trees, and the old religion is actually ancestor-worship. [[WMG: Bright Wings, Bright Words]] The Summer Islanders use parrots as carrier birds, just like the Westerosi use ravens. That's why all messages the Islanders receive are full of happiness and joy. [[WMG: Ramsay Bolton was sexually abused by Reek Classic.]] It might be a factor in his mistreatment of Reek Mk. 2 via Theon, or it might not be so much, but given the old Reek's apparent depravity and their codependently close partnership in crime, it seems possible. * In the books, Roose speculates, "Did Ramsay corrupt Reek, or did Reek corrupt Ramsay?" So he, at least, considers the possibility that some of the abuse may have gone the other way. [[WMG: The Boltons and the Redforts from the Vale are distantly related]] The Redforts could be an exiled cadet branch of the Boltons. Arguments for that: * The Boltons of old were called the Red Kings, and their castle is Dreadfort. After the Starks vassalized them, they ceased to use red as their "official color" and switched to pink. A junior Bolton who refused to bend the knee to the Starks could escape to the Vale and build a castle named after both Dreadfort and the official color of the house. Hence Redfort. * The Boltons and the Redforts were in particularly friendly relations during the events of the books; Roose Bolton's deceased son Domeric was sent to Redfort to train as a knight. The Boltons aren't exactly a bunch that can make friends, neither are they particular fans of knighthood; but having distant kin and having your son train from them is another thing. * The Redforts are First Men rather than Andals, unlike their overlords the Arryns. Boltons are First Men through and through. * The Redforts were strongly pro-Stark before the Red Wedding, during the time when the Boltons served the Starks. * Lord Horton Redfort enjoys a vague, but frightening reputation as a "dangerous man", he's also the silent, non-overt guy among the Lords Declarant. Could it be the same kind of reputation Roose Bolton has? [[WMG: Theon's Revenge]] When Theon will finally get his revenge on Ramsay, he will beat him up with a mace and yell: "Reek! Reek! It rhymes with BIG STICK!".]]
21st Sep '15 1:06:54 PM MrThorfan64
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When Theon will finally get his revenge on Ramsay, he will beat him up with a mace and yell: "Reek! Reek! It rhymes with BIG STICK!". [[WMG: Aegon VI Targaryen is exactly who he says he is, and ''that is not a good thing.'']] * Ser Barristan has credited Jaehaerys II Targaryen as saying that that madness and greatness were two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land. We've had five books to get to know Daenerys, and she has proven herself to be great. * By contrast, in the one book we've gotten the chance to know Aegon, he started losing at Cyvasse and flipped the table, then changed 15 years of planning by two of the smartest men in the world on a whim, all because Tyrion Lannister mocked him and wounded his pride. So he decides to invade Westeros with only 10,000 men. His endgame is "Gosh, I sure hope Daenerys and her dragons come to rescue me because I'm in way over my head." Two Targaryens: one Great, and one Mad. * We've all played board games with that guy who flips the board when he's losing. Now imagine he comes from a family with a history of epic mental illness, has an army at his command, and his aspirations are total hegemonic dominion over an entire continent. In short, he's proven that he's not Rhaegar's son, he's ''Aerys II's grandson.'' Remember the Mad King Aerys? Who decided to burn all of King's Landing to the ground when Robert started winning the rebellion? That's the real life equivalent of flipping a game board over when you start losing, and that's the behavior Aegon has shown he's prone to. * Amusingly, flipping the board like that is exactly what convinced Tyrion that Aegon is a Targaryen. [[WMG: Stannis will win the Iron Throne, then Daenerys will invade with her dragons and kill him]] * Considering Stannis is based on Richard III and Dany on Henry Tudor. Of course, Martin might not just go with the rules. [[WMG: Shireen will end up as Queen]] * To provide a link to House Baratheon to the King. [[WMG: Shireen is the Princess that was Promised]] * That would be a twist. [[WMG: Shireen's marriage will end up being very important]] * Stannis may die and someone will marry Shireen to give legitimacy to a succession. Or Stannis may make sure she'll marry someone to win him support. [[WMG: The world is round]] I always wonder with fantasy worlds where the shape of the world isn't mentioned anywhere whether the author thought about it or just depicted a section of world that can basically be considered as flat regardless, at least if you don't worry about the technical details of navigation at sea. But I'm thinking maybe GRRM did think about it and has a round world which you can travel all the way around. We've never seen what's to the west of Westeros, apparently people don't sail very far that way for one reason or another. I'm never quite sure of distances but could it be possible that Qarth and the East of Essos are closer to Westeros than might be thought - and even if not closer by distance, all the people who would want to stop Dany returning to Westeros will be waiting for her to move West. Perhaps this is why "to go west, [she] must go east." Also food for thought is that the Qartheen are pale-skinned, as are the Westerosi, but not so much the rest of the peoples of Essos. [[WMG: The Wall was not built by Brandon the Builder, nor any other man, but by the Others]] It seems strange that there would be no other examples of such amazing feats of engineering from ancient Westerosi. Winterfell was also said to have been built by Bran the Builder, but given[[spoiler: it was destroyed pretty easily by Ironborn raiders and/or Ramsay Bolton,]] it seems to be much more fragile, and thus unlikely to have survived as long as the Wall has against normal wear and tear and accidents. Also, Winterfell was a rather normal, if large, castle. It wasn't on nearly the same scale as the Wall (not that it needed to be). Therefore, the claim that Bran the Builder built Winterfell can probably be dismissed. At least, he didn't build both the Wall and Winterfell, and maybe not either of them, if he ever even existed at all. The Wall is made of ice (and stone, apparently), and the Others are known to work in ice, at least for their equipment. Also, GRRM said that they could do things with ice that men couldn't even imagine. The Wall is also said to incorporate powerful magic, which the Others definitely seem to possess. Furthermore, it does not seem to be built to any human standards of design, except things which were likely added later. There are no stairs to the top on either side. The top is just a flat surface, there are no crenellations for defenders to hide behind on either side. The gates and portcullises are iron and were likely added by the Night's Watch. The only interior space are the bare, straight tunnels that pass through it, there are no places in the tunnels for people to defend them. There are no storehouses, murder-holes, etc... along the tunnel walls or ceiling. Its appearance is alien. My theory is that the Others raised the Wall when they retreated back to the uttermost North after they lost their war against Westeros long ago. They did it with their Other magic in a very short period of time, and can destroy it whenever they want just as quickly. The Wall acts as a boundary, but not with the purpose of keeping the Others out of Westeros. Rather it was meant to keep humans out of the Land of Always Winter. The Land Beyond the Wall could have been meant as a buffer zone, a staging area for future assaults on Westeros, or a land where the Others could "farm" humans and/or animals for wights (or several of these at once). Perhaps the Others meant to make a stand at the Wall, but as it kept getting warmer, they had to abandon it and retreat even further north. Eventually, with the Others vanished into the arctic lands, the humans took over the Wall. They may have added to it over time, or maybe not. This goes back to Sam's statement about how little the Westerosi actually know about their history. Problems with this theory include the fact that Melisandre's magic is more powerful at the Wall (this could simply be because the Wall is impregnated with magic and enhances all magic cast nearby). Also, wights cannot pass the Wall, which seems counter-intuitive as wights are the Others' soldiers. However, it may simply be a side-effect of the Wall's magic and not intended, or it could be intended to keep the wights from wandering off (Coldhands shows that the Others might not have complete control of the wights). If the Others could destroy the Wall at will, the fact that wights couldn't cross it wouldn't be a problem. They could build up their forces north of the Wall, and when they were ready, just break it and invade Westeros again. This could also be how Joramun got hold of a horn that could break the Wall: the Others made it and he just found it, or maybe they gave it to him. How did anyone know it could break the Wall, anyway (if indeed it even can)? The Wall is still there, so it definitely hasn't been used before successfully. [[WMG: Jaqen's Target]] The laws of storytelling's conservation of detail lead me to believe the following: Jaqen H'ghar's target is in Westeros and he hasn't yet completed the assassination. Well, he may have been responsible for [[spoiler:Balon Greyjoy's fall, but the timing seems off and could very well have been a different Faceless Man, hired by Euron.]] Even if so, Jaqen could feasibly have another target keeping him from returning to the House of Black and White. But whom? Well, first we need to figure out who can afford a Faceless Man. The cost of one is staggering - nobody in King's Landing at least seemed able to purchase such service, not even Littlefinger (who seems to move gold around rather than hoarding it). Tywin might have afforded it, but this does not strike me as his style. Plus, was there any evidence that he had regular contact with Essos? But there is someone with hands in both Westeros and Essos, who also happens to be one of the wealthiest and craftiest characters: Illyrio Mopatis. And assassination definitely seems like his style. So who would Illyrio want dead? Obviously, Illyrio would need to know or at least know of this individual. This person must be a threat to his plans. It has to be someone who is still alive as of A Dance with Dragons, since Jaqen remains active. But, the target also must have been selected before the end of A Game of Thrones, since Jaqen was in the dungeon by that point. The sheer amount of deaths already eliminates a huge chunk of potential targets (i.e. it wasn't Robert or Tywin). Stannis would seem like a good candidate, but he wasn't actively doing anything by the time Jaqen was deployed. Let's look at Illyrio's motivation again: he apparently wants to put a Targaryen on the throne. Who would be a liability to this plan? I can only think of three (still living) candidates: The first two are Varys and Doran Martell, being his co-conspirators. It's possible, I guess, that Illyrio might have found a reason to distrust one - Doran being a bit more likely. Perhaps Illyrio thought he might betray them, manipulating the young Targaryen ruler through marriage? Or by striking a deal with such top-secret information? Again, it's possible, but I'm not totally convinced; Doran and Varys both seem hella committed. Before I reveal my personal suspicion, let me just come out and say that I support the theory that [[spoiler:Jon is Rhaegar Targaryen's son by Lyanna Stark.]] If so, that could present a significant rival to Illyrio's personal pet dragon. In fact, even if that theory is wrong but ''Illyrio himself'' believes it in-universe, it still works! But only two men know the truth: [[spoiler:Eddard Stark and Howland Reed. Ned's dead, baby, and besides, he'd faithfully kept his tongue shut for 15+ years. But Howland Reed? He's a wild card, no telling what he might do with this possible information. Not only that, Crannogmen are specifically notorious to find and defeat. But a Faceless Man, ah, he'll get the job done, you can bet on that.]] It's also worth noting that Jaqen seems to currently be [[spoiler:in Oldtown, conversing with Sam, who not only knows Jon, but also has met the Reeds.]] That might be a coincidence, but still, Jaqen could very well be trying to gather knowledge on how to assassinate this particular individual. And where better to go for knowledge? Also, if the theory that [[spoiler:Alleras is Sarella is also true, that's another person who would be ''very'' interested in knowing about possible rivals for a Targaryen/Martell alliance...]]
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When Theon will finally get his revenge on Ramsay, he will beat him up with a mace and yell: "Reek! Reek! It rhymes with BIG STICK!". [[WMG: Aegon VI Targaryen is exactly who he says he is, and ''that is not a good thing.'']] * Ser Barristan has credited Jaehaerys II Targaryen as saying that that madness and greatness were two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land. We've had five books to get to know Daenerys, and she has proven herself to be great. * By contrast, in the one book we've gotten the chance to know Aegon, he started losing at Cyvasse and flipped the table, then changed 15 years of planning by two of the smartest men in the world on a whim, all because Tyrion Lannister mocked him and wounded his pride. So he decides to invade Westeros with only 10,000 men. His endgame is "Gosh, I sure hope Daenerys and her dragons come to rescue me because I'm in way over my head." Two Targaryens: one Great, and one Mad. * We've all played board games with that guy who flips the board when he's losing. Now imagine he comes from a family with a history of epic mental illness, has an army at his command, and his aspirations are total hegemonic dominion over an entire continent. In short, he's proven that he's not Rhaegar's son, he's ''Aerys II's grandson.'' Remember the Mad King Aerys? Who decided to burn all of King's Landing to the ground when Robert started winning the rebellion? That's the real life equivalent of flipping a game board over when you start losing, and that's the behavior Aegon has shown he's prone to. * Amusingly, flipping the board like that is exactly what convinced Tyrion that Aegon is a Targaryen. [[WMG: Stannis will win the Iron Throne, then Daenerys will invade with her dragons and kill him]] * Considering Stannis is based on Richard III and Dany on Henry Tudor. Of course, Martin might not just go with the rules. [[WMG: Shireen will end up as Queen]] * To provide a link to House Baratheon to the King. [[WMG: Shireen is the Princess that was Promised]] * That would be a twist. [[WMG: Shireen's marriage will end up being very important]] * Stannis may die and someone will marry Shireen to give legitimacy to a succession. Or Stannis may make sure she'll marry someone to win him support. [[WMG: The world is round]] I always wonder with fantasy worlds where the shape of the world isn't mentioned anywhere whether the author thought about it or just depicted a section of world that can basically be considered as flat regardless, at least if you don't worry about the technical details of navigation at sea. But I'm thinking maybe GRRM did think about it and has a round world which you can travel all the way around. We've never seen what's to the west of Westeros, apparently people don't sail very far that way for one reason or another. I'm never quite sure of distances but could it be possible that Qarth and the East of Essos are closer to Westeros than might be thought - and even if not closer by distance, all the people who would want to stop Dany returning to Westeros will be waiting for her to move West. Perhaps this is why "to go west, [she] must go east." Also food for thought is that the Qartheen are pale-skinned, as are the Westerosi, but not so much the rest of the peoples of Essos. [[WMG: The Wall was not built by Brandon the Builder, nor any other man, but by the Others]] It seems strange that there would be no other examples of such amazing feats of engineering from ancient Westerosi. Winterfell was also said to have been built by Bran the Builder, but given[[spoiler: it was destroyed pretty easily by Ironborn raiders and/or Ramsay Bolton,]] it seems to be much more fragile, and thus unlikely to have survived as long as the Wall has against normal wear and tear and accidents. Also, Winterfell was a rather normal, if large, castle. It wasn't on nearly the same scale as the Wall (not that it needed to be). Therefore, the claim that Bran the Builder built Winterfell can probably be dismissed. At least, he didn't build both the Wall and Winterfell, and maybe not either of them, if he ever even existed at all. The Wall is made of ice (and stone, apparently), and the Others are known to work in ice, at least for their equipment. Also, GRRM said that they could do things with ice that men couldn't even imagine. The Wall is also said to incorporate powerful magic, which the Others definitely seem to possess. Furthermore, it does not seem to be built to any human standards of design, except things which were likely added later. There are no stairs to the top on either side. The top is just a flat surface, there are no crenellations for defenders to hide behind on either side. The gates and portcullises are iron and were likely added by the Night's Watch. The only interior space are the bare, straight tunnels that pass through it, there are no places in the tunnels for people to defend them. There are no storehouses, murder-holes, etc... along the tunnel walls or ceiling. Its appearance is alien. My theory is that the Others raised the Wall when they retreated back to the uttermost North after they lost their war against Westeros long ago. They did it with their Other magic in a very short period of time, and can destroy it whenever they want just as quickly. The Wall acts as a boundary, but not with the purpose of keeping the Others out of Westeros. Rather it was meant to keep humans out of the Land of Always Winter. The Land Beyond the Wall could have been meant as a buffer zone, a staging area for future assaults on Westeros, or a land where the Others could "farm" humans and/or animals for wights (or several of these at once). Perhaps the Others meant to make a stand at the Wall, but as it kept getting warmer, they had to abandon it and retreat even further north. Eventually, with the Others vanished into the arctic lands, the humans took over the Wall. They may have added to it over time, or maybe not. This goes back to Sam's statement about how little the Westerosi actually know about their history. Problems with this theory include the fact that Melisandre's magic is more powerful at the Wall (this could simply be because the Wall is impregnated with magic and enhances all magic cast nearby). Also, wights cannot pass the Wall, which seems counter-intuitive as wights are the Others' soldiers. However, it may simply be a side-effect of the Wall's magic and not intended, or it could be intended to keep the wights from wandering off (Coldhands shows that the Others might not have complete control of the wights). If the Others could destroy the Wall at will, the fact that wights couldn't cross it wouldn't be a problem. They could build up their forces north of the Wall, and when they were ready, just break it and invade Westeros again. This could also be how Joramun got hold of a horn that could break the Wall: the Others made it and he just found it, or maybe they gave it to him. How did anyone know it could break the Wall, anyway (if indeed it even can)? The Wall is still there, so it definitely hasn't been used before successfully. [[WMG: Jaqen's Target]] The laws of storytelling's conservation of detail lead me to believe the following: Jaqen H'ghar's target is in Westeros and he hasn't yet completed the assassination. Well, he may have been responsible for [[spoiler:Balon Greyjoy's fall, but the timing seems off and could very well have been a different Faceless Man, hired by Euron.]] Even if so, Jaqen could feasibly have another target keeping him from returning to the House of Black and White. But whom? Well, first we need to figure out who can afford a Faceless Man. The cost of one is staggering - nobody in King's Landing at least seemed able to purchase such service, not even Littlefinger (who seems to move gold around rather than hoarding it). Tywin might have afforded it, but this does not strike me as his style. Plus, was there any evidence that he had regular contact with Essos? But there is someone with hands in both Westeros and Essos, who also happens to be one of the wealthiest and craftiest characters: Illyrio Mopatis. And assassination definitely seems like his style. So who would Illyrio want dead? Obviously, Illyrio would need to know or at least know of this individual. This person must be a threat to his plans. It has to be someone who is still alive as of A Dance with Dragons, since Jaqen remains active. But, the target also must have been selected before the end of A Game of Thrones, since Jaqen was in the dungeon by that point. The sheer amount of deaths already eliminates a huge chunk of potential targets (i.e. it wasn't Robert or Tywin). Stannis would seem like a good candidate, but he wasn't actively doing anything by the time Jaqen was deployed. Let's look at Illyrio's motivation again: he apparently wants to put a Targaryen on the throne. Who would be a liability to this plan? I can only think of three (still living) candidates: The first two are Varys and Doran Martell, being his co-conspirators. It's possible, I guess, that Illyrio might have found a reason to distrust one - Doran being a bit more likely. Perhaps Illyrio thought he might betray them, manipulating the young Targaryen ruler through marriage? Or by striking a deal with such top-secret information? Again, it's possible, but I'm not totally convinced; Doran and Varys both seem hella committed. Before I reveal my personal suspicion, let me just come out and say that I support the theory that [[spoiler:Jon is Rhaegar Targaryen's son by Lyanna Stark.]] If so, that could present a significant rival to Illyrio's personal pet dragon. In fact, even if that theory is wrong but ''Illyrio himself'' believes it in-universe, it still works! But only two men know the truth: [[spoiler:Eddard Stark and Howland Reed. Ned's dead, baby, and besides, he'd faithfully kept his tongue shut for 15+ years. But Howland Reed? He's a wild card, no telling what he might do with this possible information. Not only that, Crannogmen are specifically notorious to find and defeat. But a Faceless Man, ah, he'll get the job done, you can bet on that.]] It's also worth noting that Jaqen seems to currently be [[spoiler:in Oldtown, conversing with Sam, who not only knows Jon, but also has met the Reeds.]] That might be a coincidence, but still, Jaqen could very well be trying to gather knowledge on how to assassinate this particular individual. And where better to go for knowledge? Also, if the theory that [[spoiler:Alleras is Sarella is also true, that's another person who would be ''very'' interested in knowing about possible rivals for a Targaryen/Martell alliance...]]STICK!".
13th Sep '15 4:39:41 AM MrThorfan64
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to:
** Somehow this doesn't feel right. Also, Sansa will eventually drop the pretense, that is Littlefinger's plan, and I doubt she will permanently stay as Alayne.

It's also worth noting that Jaqen seems to currently be [[spoiler:in Oldtown, conversing with Sam, who not only knows Jon, but also has met the Reeds.]] That might be a coincidence, but still, Jaqen could very well be trying to gather knowledge on how to assassinate this particular individual. And where better to go for knowledge? Also, if the theory that [[spoiler:Alleras is Sarella is also true, that's another person who would be ''very'' interested in knowing about possible rivals for a Targaryen/Martell alliance...]] [[WMG: Literally everything that has happened in the entire series as well as preceding it has all been planned and manipulated by the Great other in order to bring about the end of the world.]] Literally everything, the war of the five kings, Robert's rebellion, the various Blackfyre rebellions. All of it a part of the Great other's long term plan to end the world by sowing chaos and death everywhere in westeros. The drowned god, R'hllor, The many faced god, all of them are just different faces the Great other uses to further it's goals and plans. All the prophecies, such as the prince who was promised, the Stallion who mounts the world, even the Azor Ahai are all false. Fake lies to further motivate men into action only to create further chaos and ruin in the long term. Littlefinger and Varys are either witting or unwitting pawns or even outright servants. Both sowing chaos in order to leave westeros as unstable as possible so that once winter finally comes in force, there will be no one powerful enough to be able to resist the others and their army of wights. Whats more all the sheer death and destruction caused by the war of the five kings has been deliberate so the Great other now has a literal continent's worth of corpses just waiting to rise up as it's army. And with famine all but guaranteed, in large parts of Westeros, further death is even more likely. The wholesale annihilation of the starks and their corruption has also been deliberate and intended to turn them into servants. [[spoiler:Jon actually will die and be revived as the new Night's King. Making his title as "Lord Snow" hold extra meaning.]] In the end, all the various struggles, civil conflicts, and dispute over the iron throne will mean utterly nothing in the end. The truth of the long winters and who the others are will finally be revealed as will the meaning behind "All men must die." What that will come to mean is exactly what it says. All men literally must die. Everywhere and throughout the whole world. THAT is the ultimate goal of the Great other, to end all life through out the world in a cold, eternal winter. The other's will break out of the wall, winter will engulf all of westeros with only small holdouts managing to endure, like Dorne. The others will rampage across the land unopposed till almost all of Westeros save from particularly stubborn places manage to hold out, but still be faced with doom in the long term. Even Essos will be affected, only less so, with Dany's actions having been revealed to also be a part of this grand horrible plan. In the end, the ultimate massage of the series will be revealed to actually be that "power really is where ever men believe it resides". In other words, a genuine savor will come about but it won't be because of any prophecy, or any gods, or anything supernatural. But because the people believe in them whoever they are. it will also be revealed that the original Azor Ahai was actually just some random person who wasn't picked by any god or force or fate but was just someone who proved them self a true hero through there own actions. [[WMG: Jaime will eventually reveal his relationship with Cersei]] * Feeling this is the only way he can regain some honor and because he is upset with his sister. ** Kind of moot, as everyone already knows. ** Jaime may reveal this to the High Septon, making it official. [[WMG: House Words of House Seaworth]] * NeverTellMeTheOdds, after a famous smuggler litany [[WMG: Cersei will face the ultimate indignity- being remembered historically as an inept female ruler]] Nobody will catch on to her plotting, but the sexist historians of Westeros will remember her as a typical woman unable to handle the pressures of ruling a nation. This will be the thing that pushes her over... oh, wait. Further over the edge. [[WMG: The Dragons Aren't Making [[TheMagicComesBack the Magic Come Back]]]] Magic is making the dragons come back. Everyone in the series assumes that dragons strengthen magic, but maybe it's the other way around. Magical events were already happening before Dany's eggs hatched. The Others reappeared in Westeros, and Mirri Maz Duur cast multiple successful spells. This could explain the rapid decline in the Targaryen's dragons. As the magic faded, the dragons became weaker. Why else would a family who had successfully been breeding powerful dragons for centuries be unable to keep a hatchling alive for even a day?
to:
It's also worth noting that Jaqen seems to currently be [[spoiler:in Oldtown, conversing with Sam, who not only knows Jon, but also has met the Reeds.]] That might be a coincidence, but still, Jaqen could very well be trying to gather knowledge on how to assassinate this particular individual. And where better to go for knowledge? Also, if the theory that [[spoiler:Alleras is Sarella is also true, that's another person who would be ''very'' interested in knowing about possible rivals for a Targaryen/Martell alliance...]] [[WMG: Literally everything that has happened in the entire series as well as preceding it has all been planned and manipulated by the Great other in order to bring about the end of the world.]] Literally everything, the war of the five kings, Robert's rebellion, the various Blackfyre rebellions. All of it a part of the Great other's long term plan to end the world by sowing chaos and death everywhere in westeros. The drowned god, R'hllor, The many faced god, all of them are just different faces the Great other uses to further it's goals and plans. All the prophecies, such as the prince who was promised, the Stallion who mounts the world, even the Azor Ahai are all false. Fake lies to further motivate men into action only to create further chaos and ruin in the long term. Littlefinger and Varys are either witting or unwitting pawns or even outright servants. Both sowing chaos in order to leave westeros as unstable as possible so that once winter finally comes in force, there will be no one powerful enough to be able to resist the others and their army of wights. Whats more all the sheer death and destruction caused by the war of the five kings has been deliberate so the Great other now has a literal continent's worth of corpses just waiting to rise up as it's army. And with famine all but guaranteed, in large parts of Westeros, further death is even more likely. The wholesale annihilation of the starks and their corruption has also been deliberate and intended to turn them into servants. [[spoiler:Jon actually will die and be revived as the new Night's King. Making his title as "Lord Snow" hold extra meaning.]] In the end, all the various struggles, civil conflicts, and dispute over the iron throne will mean utterly nothing in the end. The truth of the long winters and who the others are will finally be revealed as will the meaning behind "All men must die." What that will come to mean is exactly what it says. All men literally must die. Everywhere and throughout the whole world. THAT is the ultimate goal of the Great other, to end all life through out the world in a cold, eternal winter. The other's will break out of the wall, winter will engulf all of westeros with only small holdouts managing to endure, like Dorne. The others will rampage across the land unopposed till almost all of Westeros save from particularly stubborn places manage to hold out, but still be faced with doom in the long term. Even Essos will be affected, only less so, with Dany's actions having been revealed to also be a part of this grand horrible plan. In the end, the ultimate massage of the series will be revealed to actually be that "power really is where ever men believe it resides". In other words, a genuine savor will come about but it won't be because of any prophecy, or any gods, or anything supernatural. But because the people believe in them whoever they are. it will also be revealed that the original Azor Ahai was actually just some random person who wasn't picked by any god or force or fate but was just someone who proved them self a true hero through there own actions. [[WMG: Jaime will eventually reveal his relationship with Cersei]] * Feeling this is the only way he can regain some honor and because he is upset with his sister. ** Kind of moot, as everyone already knows. ** Jaime may reveal this to the High Septon, making it official. [[WMG: House Words of House Seaworth]] * NeverTellMeTheOdds, after a famous smuggler litany [[WMG: Cersei will face the ultimate indignity- being remembered historically as an inept female ruler]] Nobody will catch on to her plotting, but the sexist historians of Westeros will remember her as a typical woman unable to handle the pressures of ruling a nation. This will be the thing that pushes her over... oh, wait. Further over the edge. [[WMG: The Dragons Aren't Making [[TheMagicComesBack the Magic Come Back]]]] Magic is making the dragons come back. Everyone in the series assumes that dragons strengthen magic, but maybe it's the other way around. Magical events were already happening before Dany's eggs hatched. The Others reappeared in Westeros, and Mirri Maz Duur cast multiple successful spells. This could explain the rapid decline in the Targaryen's dragons. As the magic faded, the dragons became weaker. Why else would a family who had successfully been breeding powerful dragons for centuries be unable to keep a hatchling alive for even a day?]]
13th Aug '15 4:06:57 PM ladyaira
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Added DiffLines:
***She washed her own clothes when she got lost in Red Keep's dungeons and came out of the sewers.
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