History VideoGame / SuikodenI

22nd Apr '17 4:53:17 PM nombretomado
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* FinalDeath: Make a bad decision during the war battles and most of your stars are vulnerable to this. Don't worry, they'll let you know via dramatic LastWords before you're informed of their demise. Oddly, if you use a game with dead characters to get the OldSaveBonus for ''SuikodenII'', the dead people are [[UnexplainedRecovery alive and well]]. This is even lampshaded in the second game.

to:

* FinalDeath: Make a bad decision during the war battles and most of your stars are vulnerable to this. Don't worry, they'll let you know via dramatic LastWords before you're informed of their demise. Oddly, if you use a game with dead characters to get the OldSaveBonus for ''SuikodenII'', ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', the dead people are [[UnexplainedRecovery alive and well]]. This is even lampshaded in the second game.



*** SixthRanger: Georg Prime ([[AllThereInTheManual being a Six Great General is in his resume from investigation]]. He's already gone by the time ''SuikodenI'' rolls in).

to:

*** SixthRanger: Georg Prime ([[AllThereInTheManual being a Six Great General is in his resume from investigation]]. He's already gone by the time ''SuikodenI'' ''VideoGame/SuikodenI'' rolls in).



** Due to data read error, when you use an OldSaveBonus to unlock extra stuff in ''SuikodenII'', [=McDohl=] doesn't really get renamed. Instead, the first letter of his name in ''SuikodenI'' becomes the first letter of his name in ''SuikodenII''. So, he could be named [=TcDohl=]. In other words, name him something that begins with an M.

to:

** Due to data read error, when you use an OldSaveBonus to unlock extra stuff in ''SuikodenII'', ''VideoGame/SuikodenII'', [=McDohl=] doesn't really get renamed. Instead, the first letter of his name in ''SuikodenI'' ''VideoGame/SuikodenI'' becomes the first letter of his name in ''SuikodenII''.''VideoGame/SuikodenII''. So, he could be named [=TcDohl=]. In other words, name him something that begins with an M.
20th Mar '17 7:22:01 PM TheNicestGuy
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* AluminumChristmasTrees: Fire spears were a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance real thing]]

to:

* AluminumChristmasTrees: AluminumChristmasTrees:
**
Fire spears were a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance real thing]]thing]].
** To mount a naval assault, the rebels need to acquire five hundred boats impossibly fast, so they use a dragon's breath to freeze up a flotilla of skiffs from solid ice. With the apparently temperate climate around Lake Toran, this would be as far-fetched and temporary as it sounds, but it's not without a real-world counterpart: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete Pykrete]]. This mixture of water ice and sawdust was experimented with as a serious possibility for large ship hulls during WWII. The {{Series/Mythbusters}} made a small boat hull using a modified recipe, and it worked rather well--for less than an hour.
3rd Feb '17 9:53:50 AM Gosicrystal
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* AntiVillain: [[spoiler:Teo.]]

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* %%* AntiVillain: [[spoiler:Teo.]]



** Also, an imperial commander makes a declaration about how [[NietzscheWannabe 'God is dead']], while in the original he just declares that deals with rebels are worthless.

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** Also, an An imperial commander makes a declaration about how [[NietzscheWannabe 'God is dead']], while in the original he just declares that deals with rebels are worthless.



* BlindSeer: Leknaat

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* BlindSeer: LeknaatLeknaat.



* BodyguardCrush: [[HoYay Subtext says]] Gremio.
* BoisterousBruiser: Viktor
* BrainwashedAndCrazy: [[spoiler:Two of the Five Imperial Generals (Kwanda Rosman and Milich Oppenheimer), thanks to Windy's Black Runes. Teo [=McDohl=], Sonya Schulen, and Kasim Hazil all avert this and are opposed to the Liberation Army of their own will.]]

to:

* %%* BodyguardCrush: [[HoYay Subtext says]] says Gremio.
* BoisterousBruiser: Viktor
Viktor.
* BrainwashedAndCrazy: BrainwashedAndCrazy:
**
[[spoiler:Two of the Five Imperial Generals (Kwanda Rosman and Milich Oppenheimer), thanks to Windy's Black Runes. Teo [=McDohl=], Sonya Schulen, and Kasim Hazil all avert this and are opposed to the Liberation Army of their own will.]]



* CelibateHero: Flik
* ChainOfDeals: The Soap.

to:

* CelibateHero: Flik
*
Flik.
%%*
ChainOfDeals: The Soap.



* ChekhovsGun: The Fire Spears
* ColdSniper: Clive
* CombinationAttack
* CruelAndUnusualDeath: [[spoiler:Gremio's HeroicSacrifice involves him being trapped alone a room and eaten alive by man-eating spores. He does get better if you collect all the stars.]]

to:

* %%* ChekhovsGun: The Fire Spears
Spears.
* ColdSniper: Clive
*
Clive.
%%*
CombinationAttack
* CruelAndUnusualDeath: [[spoiler:Gremio's [[spoiler:Gremio]]'s HeroicSacrifice involves him [[spoiler:him being trapped alone in a room and eaten alive by man-eating spores. He does get better if you collect all the stars.]]stars]].



* DragonRider: The Dragon Knights
* DuelBoss: Most notably [[spoiler: [=McDohl=]'s father]].

to:

* DragonRider: The Dragon Knights
Knights.
* DuelBoss: Most notably [[spoiler: [=McDohl=]'s [[spoiler:[=McDohl=]'s father]].



* EarnYourHappyEnding

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* %%* EarnYourHappyEnding



* FalseFlagOperation: The Kalekka Incident.

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* %%* FalseFlagOperation: The Kalekka Incident.



* FiveManBand: The group at the beginning:
** TheHero: Tir [=McDohl=]
** TheLancer: Ted
** TheBigGuy: Pahn
** TheSmartGuy: Cleo
** TheChick: Gremio (who gets this spot as opposed to Cleo due to the fact that he dotes on Tir like an overprotective mother, and tends to be the most emotional of the group)
** As well as the Six Great Generals of the Empire. Remember, there was once a time when they were genuine good guys rather than the FiveBadBand.
*** TheHero: Teo [=McDohl=]
*** TheLancer: Kasim Hazil
*** TheBigGuy: Kwanda Rossman
*** TheSmartGuy: Milich Oppenheimer (Fruitiness aside, he came up with a lot of contraptions that caused many troubles for the Liberation Army, such as the Antoinette poison pollen)
*** TheChick: Kilahwer Shulen (Sonya's mother)
*** SixthRanger: Georg Prime ([[AllThereInTheManual Being a Six Great General is in his resume from investigation]]. He's already gone by the time ''SuikodenI'' rolls in.)

to:

* FiveManBand: FiveManBand:
**
The group at the beginning:
** *** TheHero: Tir [=McDohl=]
**
[=McDohl=].
***
TheLancer: Ted
**
Ted.
***
TheBigGuy: Pahn
**
Pahn.
***
TheSmartGuy: Cleo
**
Cleo.
***
TheChick: Gremio (who gets this spot as opposed to Cleo due to the fact that he dotes on Tir like an overprotective mother, and tends to be the most emotional of the group)
group).
** As well as the The Six Great Generals of the Empire. Remember, there was once a time when they were genuine good guys rather than the FiveBadBand.
*** TheHero: Teo [=McDohl=]
[=McDohl=].
*** TheLancer: Kasim Hazil
Hazil.
*** TheBigGuy: Kwanda Rossman
Rossman.
*** TheSmartGuy: Milich Oppenheimer (Fruitiness aside, he came up with a lot of contraptions that caused many troubles for the Liberation Army, such as the Antoinette poison pollen)
pollen).
*** TheChick: Kilahwer Shulen (Sonya's mother)
mother).
*** SixthRanger: Georg Prime ([[AllThereInTheManual Being being a Six Great General is in his resume from investigation]]. He's already gone by the time ''SuikodenI'' rolls in.)in).



* GuideDangIt: Recruiting several of the stars qualifies as this.
** Special mention goes to recruiting Mathiu's uncle Leon. To do so, you need to get the castle up towards its maximum size, which Leon will remark upon the next time you talk to him. Next, you have to get Mathiu to write him a letter asking for his services. Now, this ordinarily wouldn't be a problem, but since Mathiu is your strategist, talking to him normally causes him to ask you if you're ready to advance the plot. If he's doing this, he can't write the letter, so you have to do it in a lull in the storyline. There are only two points where this can happen, and you need to have recruited ''every'' other available character for it to work. It's all a bit much even for an optional character.

to:

* GuideDangIt: Recruiting several of the stars qualifies as this.
**
this. Special mention goes to recruiting Mathiu's uncle Leon. To do so, you need to get the castle up towards its maximum size, which Leon will remark upon the next time you talk to him. Next, you have to get Mathiu to write him a letter asking for his services. Now, this ordinarily wouldn't be a problem, but since Mathiu is your strategist, talking to him normally causes him to ask you if you're ready to advance the plot. If he's doing this, he can't write the letter, so you have to do it in a lull in the storyline. There are only two points where this can happen, and you need to have recruited ''every'' other available character for it to work. It's all a bit much even for an optional character.



* TheHerosJourney

to:

* %%* TheHerosJourney



* JerkWithAHeartOfGold: Flik and Apple.
* LaResistance: The Liberation Army.

to:

%% * JerkWithAHeartOfGold: Flik and JerkWithAHeartOfGold:
%% ** Flik.
%% **
Apple.
%% * LaResistance: The Liberation Army.
3rd Feb '17 9:41:47 AM Gosicrystal
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* LostForever: Did you forget to recruit Leon Silverberg before the assault at Shasarazade? Say goodbye to the 100% Completion! [[note]]You need to talk to Mathiu IN the headquarters so he writes the letter to Leon when asked. If you've done Shasarazade, Mathiu will not be in the place and will only write for Leon AFTER the final war, which renders him useless and also by then, you probably have passed [[spoiler:Gremio's possible resurrection.]][[/note]]



* NewPowersAsThePlotDemands: Sort of; the Soul Eater has four spells like any other rune, but [=McDohl=] only gains access to each successive spell after certain plot points.
** Mostly a subversion though, as not only the new skills have no relation to the plot, they are gained after the Soul Eater [[spoiler: eats the soul of someone close to you]], so the powerup is vaguely justified.

to:

* NewPowersAsThePlotDemands: Sort of; the Soul Eater has four spells like any other rune, but [=McDohl=] only gains access to each successive spell after certain plot points.
**
points. Mostly a subversion subversion, though, as not only the new skills have no relation to the plot, they are gained after the Soul Eater [[spoiler: eats [[spoiler:eats the soul of someone close to you]], so the powerup is vaguely justified.



* NonActionGuy: Hix ''can'' fight--he just isn't very good, and prefers avoiding combat when he can. Unfortunately, the poor guy lives in the Warriors' Village and has [[{{Tsundere}} Tengaar]] as his love interest, and she's bound and determined to make him a man.
** A bit of a subversion, though, as Hix has good stat growth and can be quite a good fighter if you give him the right rune.

to:

* NonActionGuy: Hix ''can'' fight--he just isn't very good, and prefers avoiding combat when he can. Unfortunately, the poor guy lives in the Warriors' Village and has [[{{Tsundere}} Tengaar]] as his love interest, and she's bound and determined to make him a man.
**
man. A bit of a subversion, though, as Hix has good stat growth and can be quite a good fighter if you give him the right rune.



* PettingZooPeople: The kobolds.

to:

* PermanentlyMissableContent: Did you forget to recruit Leon Silverberg before the assault at Shasarazade? Say goodbye to the 100% Completion! [[note]]You need to talk to Mathiu IN the headquarters so he writes the letter to Leon when asked. If you've done Shasarazade, Mathiu will not be in the place and will only write for Leon AFTER the final war, which renders him useless and also by then, you probably have passed [[spoiler:Gremio's possible resurrection.]][[/note]]
%%*
PettingZooPeople: The kobolds.



* PlotlineDeath

to:

* %%* PlotlineDeath



* QuicklyDemotedWoman: Poor Odessa.
** Don't worry, you can still enjoy her days being badass [[AllThereInTheManual if you read the novels...]]
* ReallySevenHundredYearsOld: [[spoiler:Ted got to be BlessedWithSuck before [=McDohl=].]]
** It turns out that all True Rune bearers are subject to this, including Windy and Joshua, the holder of the Dragon Rune.

to:

* %%* QuicklyDemotedWoman: Poor Odessa.
**
Odessa. Don't worry, you can still enjoy her days being badass [[AllThereInTheManual if you read the novels...]]
* ReallySevenHundredYearsOld: [[spoiler:Ted got to be BlessedWithSuck before [=McDohl=].]]
**
It turns out that all True Rune bearers are subject to this, including Windy and Joshua, the holder of the Dragon Rune.Rune.
%% ** [[spoiler:Ted got to be BlessedWithSuck before [=McDohl=].]]



* SourSupporter: [[spoiler:Sonya Shulen.]]
** Flik starts as one, due to [[spoiler:Odessa's death]]. [[CharacterDevelopment He gets better]] after [[spoiler:Gremio's HeroicSacrifice]].

to:

* SourSupporter: [[spoiler:Sonya Shulen.]]
**
Flik starts as one, due to [[spoiler:Odessa's death]]. [[spoiler:Odessa]]'s death. [[CharacterDevelopment He gets better]] after [[spoiler:Gremio's HeroicSacrifice]].[[spoiler:Gremio]]'s HeroicSacrifice.
%% ** [[spoiler:Sonya Shulen.]]



* TheStrategist: Mathiu Silverberg.

to:

* %%* TheStrategist: Mathiu Silverberg.



* {{Tsundere}}: ''Tengaar'', one of the best examples of this trope in the entire series.
** Made even scarier when you realize she bears a slight resemblance to another [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion red-headed mega-tsundere...]]
*** And just to hammer it home, her boyfriend is a [[BewareTheNiceOnes soft-spoken wuss capable of killing men three times his weight in single combat if properly motivated.]]
* YouGottaHaveBlueHair: Stallion the elf.

to:

* {{Tsundere}}: ''Tengaar'', one of the best examples of this trope in the entire series.
**
Tengaar. Made even scarier when you realize she bears a slight resemblance to another [[Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion red-headed mega-tsundere...]]
***
]] And just to hammer it home, her boyfriend is a [[BewareTheNiceOnes soft-spoken wuss capable of killing men three times his weight in single combat if properly motivated.]]
motivated]].
%% Which color?
* YouGottaHaveBlueHair: Stallion the elf.



* YourSoulIsMine: The Soul Eater rune does this. When people [[spoiler:close to the bearer]] die, it eats their soul and gains power.
** It might be worse than that; the Soul Eater is implied to ''manipulate fate'' to cause the [[spoiler: people nearest to the bearer]] to die off so it can feed.

to:

* YourSoulIsMine: The Soul Eater rune does this. When people [[spoiler:close to the bearer]] die, it eats their soul and gains power.
**
It might be worse than that; the Soul Eater is implied to ''manipulate fate'' to cause the [[spoiler: people [[spoiler:people nearest to the bearer]] to die off so it can feed.
21st Jan '17 4:08:47 AM Morgenthaler
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The first installment of the {{Suikoden}} series; naturally, many of the series' long-running themes are established herein.

to:

The first installment of the {{Suikoden}} ''VideoGame/{{Suikoden}}'' series; naturally, many of the series' long-running themes are established herein.
21st Jan '17 4:07:22 AM Morgenthaler
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!![[SuikodenI Suikoden]] provides examples of:

to:

!![[SuikodenI Suikoden]] !!Suikoden provides examples of:
15th Jan '17 10:37:25 PM DustSnitch
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** Don't worry, you can still enjoy her days being {{Badass}} [[AllThereInTheManual if you read the novels...]]

to:

** Don't worry, you can still enjoy her days being {{Badass}} badass [[AllThereInTheManual if you read the novels...]]
16th Nov '16 2:32:28 PM creepingdeath
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Added DiffLines:

* AluminumChristmasTrees: Fire spears were a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_lance real thing]]
8th Sep '16 5:41:20 AM ChrisX
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* EvenEvilHasStandards: [[spoiler:The Soul Eater Rune is widely considered to be the most evil of the True Runes (and with good reason), but even it is disgusted by Windy, and refuses to accept her as its wielder. Although given that the game gives not even the vaguest hint as to ''how Windy was intending get around the fact that simultaneously holding two True Runes is impossible'', standards might not be involved after all.]]

to:

* EvenEvilHasStandards: [[spoiler:The Soul Eater Rune is widely considered to be the most evil of the True Runes (and with good reason), but even it is disgusted by Windy, and refuses to accept her as its wielder. Although given that the game gives not even the vaguest hint as to ''how Windy was intending get around the fact that simultaneously holding two True Runes is impossible'', standards might not be involved after all.]] Or maybe there is a standard: ''Follow the goddamn rules.'']]
9th Jun '16 7:42:52 AM NESBoy
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** At one point, Kirkis says, "After returning from Dwarves' Village" for no apparent reason. This is due to the localization team accidentally including a developer's note into the dialogue, resulting in Gremio saying Kirkis's actual line, Valeria saying Gremio's line, and so on until the actual final line in this dialogue chain (Kirkis expressing disbelief and telling the player to hurry) ended up being unused.



* CharacterDevelopment: Flik gradually matures from a [[ClingyJealousGirl Clingy Jealous Boyfriend]] who blames [=McDohl=] for [[spoiler:Odessa's]] death to a driven, loyal companion. And this turns out to be just the start for him...

to:

* CharacterDevelopment: Flik gradually matures from a [[ClingyJealousGirl Clingy Jealous Boyfriend]] who blames [=McDohl=] for [[spoiler:Odessa's]] [[spoiler:Odessa]]'s death to a driven, loyal companion. And this turns out to be just the start for him...



* WhatHappenedToTheMouse: [[spoiler: Sanchez]]'s fate is never elaborated upon in the game itself, because [[spoiler: he's]] not a Star of Destiny and doesn't get mentioned in the epilogue. [[AllThereInTheManual Supplementary materials]] reveal that after the end of the war, [[spoiler: he was pardoned by President Lepant to avoid a scandal, made to swear that he will not associate with any Republic officials, and ends up entering Qlon Temple to live quietly.]] Of course, these materials [[NoExportForYou never made it out of Japan.]]

to:

* WhatHappenedToTheMouse: [[spoiler: Sanchez]]'s fate is never elaborated upon in the game itself, because [[spoiler: he's]] he's not a Star of Destiny and doesn't get mentioned in the epilogue. [[AllThereInTheManual Supplementary materials]] reveal that after the end of the war, [[spoiler: he was pardoned by President Lepant to avoid a scandal, made to swear that he will not associate with any Republic officials, and ends up entering Qlon Temple to live quietly.]] Of course, these materials [[NoExportForYou never made it out of Japan.]]
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