History ValuesDissonance / ComicBooks

6th Dec '17 9:06:27 AM lillolillo
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** Shortly after ComicBook/{{Supergirl}}'s introduction, there's a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' story in which (for typically contrived [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] reasons) he has to pretend to be engaged. So, he spends a good part of the story making kissy-face with the mysterious new superheroine Mighty Maid. At the end of the story it's revealed she's Supergirl in disguise, and thus Supes has been making out with his ''15-year-old first cousin.'' (A later story makes it clear that this is not Kryptonian-Earth values dissonance; first cousins couldn't marry on Krypton.)



* Shortly after Supergirl's introduction, there's a ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'' story in which (for typically contrived [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] reasons) he has to pretend to be engaged. So, he spends a good part of the story making kissy-face with the mysterious new superheroine Mighty Maid. At the end of the story it's revealed she's Supergirl in disguise, and thus Supes has been making out with his ''15-year-old first cousin.'' (A later story makes it clear that this is not Kryptonian-Earth values dissonance; first cousins couldn't marry on Krypton.)
** Fact Note: in most US states first cousins can legally marry, doesn't lessen the {{squick}} though.
30th Oct '17 6:46:24 AM Kickisund
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** While Mafalda's ideas on women's rights ''were'' advanced by the standards of TheSixties, they come as [[StrawFeminist more rude and stuck-up than well-intentioned]] to modern readers. Especially when she says that her {{Housewife}} mother Raquel [[RealWomenDontWearDresses is "useless" and "mediocre" because she chose to raise Mafalda at home than juggle with work/college and motherhood]].

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** While Mafalda's ideas on women's rights ''were'' advanced by the standards of TheSixties, they come as [[StrawFeminist more rude and stuck-up than well-intentioned]] to modern readers. Especially when she says that her {{Housewife}} mother Raquel [[RealWomenDontWearDresses is "useless" and "mediocre" because she chose to raise Mafalda at home rather than juggle with work/college and motherhood]].



** Obelix is usually the one to be given a love interest, though usually it's unreciprocated and takes the form of a crush on a pretty woman which helps drive the plot. In ''Asterix and Caesar's Gift'', he develops another crush on newcomer Influenza, the daughter of an innkeeper, who uses this crush to manipulate him. Influenza is stated to be a teenager; Obelix, though he has a VagueAge, is clearly an adult and is at ''least'' in his twenties [[note]]He and Asterix are the same age; according to one book, Asterix isn't as young as he looks. Asterix and Obelix could be anywhere between their twenties and their thirties[[/note]]. While it was more acceptable in times past for adult men to pursue teenaged women, to modern readers it's certainly uncomfortable.

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** Obelix is usually the one to be given a love interest, though usually it's unreciprocated and takes the form of a crush on a pretty woman which helps drive the plot. In ''Asterix and Caesar's Gift'', he develops another crush on newcomer Influenza, the daughter of an innkeeper, who uses this crush to manipulate him. Influenza is stated to be a teenager; Obelix, though he has a VagueAge, is clearly an adult and is at ''least'' in his twenties [[note]]He and Asterix are the same age; according to one book, Asterix isn't as young as he looks. Asterix and Obelix could be anywhere between their twenties and their thirties[[/note]]. While it was more acceptable in times past for adult men to pursue teenaged women, girls, to modern readers it's certainly uncomfortable.
13th Oct '17 12:44:35 AM SilverFang
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Added DiffLines:

** ''{{ComicBook/Sabretooth}}'' has a habit of casually referring to women as "frails." The term being slang from the 18th century -used to refer to women back when they were seen as the weaker, more frail, sex. Creed was born in the 1800s, and seems to have stuck to the name. He usually refers to many women he speaks with as "frail" or just simply "girl." Even after his Inversion, and becoming a good guy, he still does it. Rogue, Mystique, and Monet have expressed dislike of being called "frail." But Creed continues to do it, telling Rogue that if he stopped, he may as well be neutered completely. Also an example of possible racism comes up with him condescendingly referring to Silver Fox as Logan's "squaw", which could be seen as offensive now.
8th Oct '17 9:11:12 PM TargetOnMyBack
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* An in-story example occurs in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'', when '70s superhero ComicBook/BlackLightning meets modern black superhero Mr. Terrific. Terrific remarks that a black person actually calling himself "Black Lightning" is ridiculous. (He did wear a black-and-blue costume, and his lightning bolts are often depicted as literally black, but still.) Lightning replys that when he began his career he was "the only one of us out there" and wanted people to know that.

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* An in-story example occurs in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'', when '70s superhero ComicBook/BlackLightning meets modern black superhero Mr. Terrific. Terrific remarks that a black person actually calling himself "Black Lightning" is ridiculous. (He did wear a black-and-blue costume, and his lightning bolts are often depicted as literally black, but still.) Lightning replys replies that when he began his career he was "the only one of us out there" and wanted people to know that.
27th Sep '17 10:39:23 AM PrincessGwen
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** [[{{Pun}} Ultimately]], the differences between original Captain America and "Ultimate" Captain America are a values dissonance between the comics industry of the 1940's and the modern day. At the time, the industry was all about big patriotism and sticking by your country in times of trouble because hey, it's your country. Nowadays, comics are more willing to stick it to the man. Thus original Cap attempted to symbolize everything best about America, while post-[[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] Cap tries to fight everything that's worst about it.

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** [[{{Pun}} Ultimately]], the differences between original Captain America and "Ultimate" Captain America are a values dissonance between the comics industry of the 1940's and the modern day. At the time, the industry was all about big patriotism and sticking by your country in times of trouble because hey, it's your country. Nowadays, comics are more willing to stick it to the man. Thus original Cap attempted to symbolize everything best about America, while post-[[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] Cap tries to fight everything that's the worst about it.



** While Mafalda's ideas on women's rights ''were'' advanced by the standards of TheSixties, they come as [[StrawFeminist more rude and stuck-up than well-intentioned]] to modern readers. Specially when she says that her {{Housewife}} mother Raquel [[RealWomenDontWearDresses is "useless" and "mediocre" because she chose to raise Mafalda at home than juggle with work/college and motherhood]].

to:

** While Mafalda's ideas on women's rights ''were'' advanced by the standards of TheSixties, they come as [[StrawFeminist more rude and stuck-up than well-intentioned]] to modern readers. Specially Especially when she says that her {{Housewife}} mother Raquel [[RealWomenDontWearDresses is "useless" and "mediocre" because she chose to raise Mafalda at home than juggle with work/college and motherhood]].



** In One particular story the heroes meet Fidel Castro who is shown as a very nice and sympathethic person...

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** In One one particular story story, the heroes meet Fidel Castro who is shown as a very nice and sympathethic person...



** There's also the reason behind using a deal with the devil to separate Spider-Man and Mary Jane; Joe Quesada wanted them broken up, but believed divorcing them would send a bad message and so used magic to remove the marriage from existence. For those who don't think divorce is a bad thing when you have suitable reason for it (which is a decent number of people nowadays), that makes the decision to use magic devil-deals ridiculous. Especially considering that most of Spider-Man's long-established supporting characters of roughly his own age-group were already divorced or widowed before ''One More Day''[[note]]Cleanly divorced: Randy Robertson (who is a few years younger than Peter Parker) from Amanda, and Debra from Mr. Whitman. Quasi-divorced (not married, but went through a very painful separation): Flash Thompson and Sha Shan. Widowed: Betty Brant Leeds (but not before her husband walked out on her because of her (second!) adulterous affair with Flash) and Liz Allan Osborn[[/note]]. To cap it all off, the issue immediately following ''One More Day'' revealed that Harry Osborn was alive and now a triple divorcé, having apparently married two more women after getting a divorce from his former widow Liz.

to:

** There's also the reason behind using a deal with the devil to separate Spider-Man and Mary Jane; Joe Quesada wanted them broken up, but believed divorcing them would send a bad message and so used magic to remove the marriage from existence. For those who don't think divorce is a bad thing when you have a suitable reason for it (which is a decent number of people nowadays), that makes the decision to use magic devil-deals ridiculous. Especially considering that most of Spider-Man's long-established supporting characters of roughly his own age-group were already divorced or widowed before ''One More Day''[[note]]Cleanly divorced: Randy Robertson (who is a few years younger than Peter Parker) from Amanda, and Debra from Mr. Whitman. Quasi-divorced (not married, but went through a very painful separation): Flash Thompson and Sha Shan. Widowed: Betty Brant Leeds (but not before her husband walked out on her because of her (second!) adulterous affair with Flash) and Liz Allan Osborn[[/note]]. To cap it all off, the issue immediately following ''One More Day'' revealed that Harry Osborn was alive and now a triple divorcé, having apparently married two more women after getting a divorce from his former widow Liz.



* In ''ComicBook/TheJudasContract'' from the early 1980s, TheMole Terra has a sexual relationship with ComicBook/{{Deathstroke}}. Not only is Deathstroke twice her age, but he has ''kids'' either her age or older. Terra is above the age-of-consent in most of America (she was sixteen) however it's still {{squick}}y. That was the intended reaction, however it's become a bit ''too'' uncomfortable in future years. That aspect of their relationship either gets ignored or critisized. The 2003 ''WesternAnimation/TeenTitans'' cartoon outright ignored their relationship and the 2016 [[WesternAnimation/TeenTitansTheJudasContract animated film adaptation]] of it arc also changes it so that no sex occurs. Terra simply has an unrequited crush on Deathstroke.

to:

* In ''ComicBook/TheJudasContract'' from the early 1980s, TheMole Terra has a sexual relationship with ComicBook/{{Deathstroke}}. Not only is Deathstroke twice her age, but he has ''kids'' either her age or older. Terra is above the age-of-consent in most of America (she was sixteen) however it's still {{squick}}y. That was the intended reaction, however it's become a bit ''too'' uncomfortable in future years. That aspect of their relationship either gets ignored or critisized.criticized. The 2003 ''WesternAnimation/TeenTitans'' cartoon outright ignored their relationship and the 2016 [[WesternAnimation/TeenTitansTheJudasContract animated film adaptation]] of it arc also changes it so that no sex occurs. Terra simply has an unrequited crush on Deathstroke.
19th Sep '17 5:07:36 PM KrspaceT
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** One very early issue showed that every male member of the team was lusting after Jean, even Professor Xavier, who believes the biggest obstacle to a romance between them is ''his wheelchair'', not that he's her teacher and twice her age. This has almost never been mentioned since then.

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** One very early issue showed that every male member of the team was lusting after Jean, even Professor Xavier, who believes the biggest obstacle to a romance between them is ''his wheelchair'', not that he's her teacher and twice her age. This has almost never been mentioned since then.then, and when it is brought up it is one of Xavier's greatest personal shames.
14th Sep '17 4:16:31 AM Pichu-kun
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to:

* In ''ComicBook/TheJudasContract'' from the early 1980s, TheMole Terra has a sexual relationship with ComicBook/{{Deathstroke}}. Not only is Deathstroke twice her age, but he has ''kids'' either her age or older. Terra is above the age-of-consent in most of America (she was sixteen) however it's still {{squick}}y. That was the intended reaction, however it's become a bit ''too'' uncomfortable in future years. That aspect of their relationship either gets ignored or critisized. The 2003 ''WesternAnimation/TeenTitans'' cartoon outright ignored their relationship and the 2016 [[WesternAnimation/TeenTitansTheJudasContract animated film adaptation]] of it arc also changes it so that no sex occurs. Terra simply has an unrequited crush on Deathstroke.
10th Sep '17 7:46:02 PM Doug86
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* ''Many'' of ''ComicBook/ArchieComics'' older slapstick routines are magnificently dated and offensive by today's standards:

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* ''Many'' of ''ComicBook/ArchieComics'' ''Franchise/ArchieComics'' older slapstick routines are magnificently dated and offensive by today's standards:
21st Aug '17 11:37:21 PM randomtroper89
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*** Values dissonance began to haunt Superman by the end of the '60s as he had not reverted to his earlier, rebellious form, but remained a symbol of the establishment, despite the youth movement moving that way. Attempts at "modernizing" Superman were often scoffed at, and between the '70s and the '00s, Superman was often used as an example of the right and virtuous old-fashioned superhero for better or worse, though besides "I don't kill," they're rarely specific about what "morals" of his are supposed to be outdated. That's not to say Superman never had any high points during this period, they just tended to be more about the overall plot or spectacle. Lately, they seem to be trying to get away from this.

to:

*** ** Values dissonance began to haunt Superman by the end of the '60s as he had not reverted to his earlier, rebellious form, but remained a symbol of the establishment, despite the youth movement moving that way. Attempts at "modernizing" Superman were often scoffed at, and between the '70s and the '00s, Superman was often used as an example of the right and virtuous old-fashioned superhero for better or worse, though besides "I don't kill," they're rarely specific about what "morals" of his are supposed to be outdated. That's not to say Superman never had any high points during this period, they just tended to be more about the overall plot or spectacle. Lately, they seem to be trying to get away from this.
21st Aug '17 11:29:28 PM randomtroper89
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*** '60s-era Cap featured many similar views played straight, with Cap nudging his career-woman girlfriend Sharon Carter to resign from SHIELD so that she could be his wife; back then, that was pretty normal. Nowadays, it makes Steve look like a dick. As such, Steve is now far more progressive with his views (including bowing leadership to Wasp and serving alongside many female Avengers without questioning their abilities), and his relationship with Sharon is modernized into a BattleCouple with Sharon being the one who proposes to Steve.

to:

*** ** '60s-era Cap featured many similar views played straight, with Cap nudging his career-woman girlfriend Sharon Carter to resign from SHIELD so that she could be his wife; back then, that was pretty normal. Nowadays, it makes Steve look like a dick. As such, Steve is now far more progressive with his views (including bowing leadership to Wasp and serving alongside many female Avengers without questioning their abilities), and his relationship with Sharon is modernized into a BattleCouple with Sharon being the one who proposes to Steve.
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