History UsefulNotes / ThirtyYearsWar

30th Mar '18 7:49:43 AM Jhonny
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The causes of the war are complex, and considering the numerous participants arguably unique to each one of them. The basic conflict involved tensions between Protestants and Catholics inside the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, tensions between the emperor and his princes (Protestant ''and'' Catholic), tensions between the Czechs and the [[UsefulNotes/{{Germany}} Germans]] within TheEmpire, the old French-Habsburg rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/{{Denmark}} Danish]]-[[UsefulNotes/{{Sweden}} Swedish]] rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/TheEightyYearsWar the Spanish conflict with the Dutch]], and Swedish designs on the Baltic. All of these things flowed together to create a 30-year long [[SophisticatedAsHell clusterfuck]] in which the sides were not always clearly marked, with certain factions frequently changing sides or essentially blackmailing their "allies" as the situation seemed to shift to their own advant age[[note]]The British peoples generally sat this one out, eventually becoming too busy killing each other to intervene (''see below'')[[/note]]. The three decades of war are considered to be very important because of the military, social and economic development that it accelerated: Armies in this period became even larger than they had been during the Habsburg-Valois and Habsburg-Ottoman and Religious Wars of the 16th Century, and new tactics were tried out that would eventually become important.

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The causes of the war are complex, and considering the numerous participants arguably unique to each one of them. The basic conflict involved tensions between Protestants and Catholics inside the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, tensions between the emperor and his princes (Protestant ''and'' Catholic), tensions between the Czechs and the [[UsefulNotes/{{Germany}} Germans]] within TheEmpire, the old French-Habsburg rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/{{Denmark}} Danish]]-[[UsefulNotes/{{Sweden}} Swedish]] rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/TheEightyYearsWar the Spanish conflict with the Dutch]], and Swedish designs on the Baltic. All of these things flowed together to create a 30-year long [[SophisticatedAsHell clusterfuck]] in which the sides were not always clearly marked, with certain factions frequently changing sides or essentially blackmailing their "allies" as the situation seemed to shift to their own advant age[[note]]The advantage[[note]]The British peoples generally sat this one out, eventually becoming too busy killing each other to intervene (''see below'')[[/note]]. The three decades of war are considered to be very important because of the military, social and economic development that it accelerated: Armies in this period became even larger than they had been during the Habsburg-Valois and Habsburg-Ottoman and Religious Wars of the 16th Century, and new tactics were tried out that would eventually become important.
30th Mar '18 6:58:49 AM alchixinren
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The causes of the war are complex, and considering the numerous participants arguably unique to each one of them. The basic conflict involved tensions between Protestants and Catholics inside the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, tensions between the emperor and his princes (Protestant ''and'' Catholic), tensions between the Czechs and the [[UsefulNotes/{{Germany}} Germans]] within TheEmpire, the old French-Habsburg rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/{{Denmark}} Danish]]-[[UsefulNotes/{{Sweden}} Swedish]] rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/TheEightyYearsWar the Spanish conflict with the Dutch]], and Swedish designs on the Baltic. All of these things flowed together to create a 30-year long [[SophisticatedAsHell clusterfuck]] in which the sides were not always clearly marked, with certain factions frequently changing sides or essentially blackmailing their "allies" as the situation seemed to shift to their own advantage. The three decades of war are considered to be very important because of the military, social and economic development that it accelerated: Armies in this period became even larger than they had been during the Habsburg-Valois and Habsburg-Ottoman and Religious Wars of the 16th Century, and new tactics were tried out that would eventually become important.

to:

The causes of the war are complex, and considering the numerous participants arguably unique to each one of them. The basic conflict involved tensions between Protestants and Catholics inside the UsefulNotes/HolyRomanEmpire, tensions between the emperor and his princes (Protestant ''and'' Catholic), tensions between the Czechs and the [[UsefulNotes/{{Germany}} Germans]] within TheEmpire, the old French-Habsburg rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/{{Denmark}} Danish]]-[[UsefulNotes/{{Sweden}} Swedish]] rivalry, [[UsefulNotes/TheEightyYearsWar the Spanish conflict with the Dutch]], and Swedish designs on the Baltic. All of these things flowed together to create a 30-year long [[SophisticatedAsHell clusterfuck]] in which the sides were not always clearly marked, with certain factions frequently changing sides or essentially blackmailing their "allies" as the situation seemed to shift to their own advantage.advant age[[note]]The British peoples generally sat this one out, eventually becoming too busy killing each other to intervene (''see below'')[[/note]]. The three decades of war are considered to be very important because of the military, social and economic development that it accelerated: Armies in this period became even larger than they had been during the Habsburg-Valois and Habsburg-Ottoman and Religious Wars of the 16th Century, and new tactics were tried out that would eventually become important.
16th Mar '18 11:39:51 AM DukeofFinland
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* ''VideoGame/EuropaUniversalis'' includes this era and has a bookmark to start in the Thirty Years' War.

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* ''VideoGame/EuropaUniversalis'' includes this era and has a bookmark to start in the Thirty Years' War. The fourth installment's Art of War DLC has the religious leagues mechanic that simulates the conditions that lead to the war and inevitably causes it to fire off at some point after 1550 in every playthrough.
1st Sep '17 4:07:26 PM nombretomado
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* The ''Literature/SixteenThirtyTwo'' series by Creator/EricFlint has a 20th century West Virginia coal mining town dropped into the middle of the conflict, in the middle of [[AllTheLittleGermanies the Germanies]].

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* The ''Literature/SixteenThirtyTwo'' series by Creator/EricFlint has a 20th century West Virginia coal mining town dropped into the middle of the conflict, in the middle of [[AllTheLittleGermanies [[UsefulNotes/AllTheLittleGermanies the Germanies]].
25th Aug '17 6:30:02 PM nombretomado
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Indeed, 'sovereignty' is the real meaning of ''cuius regio, eius religio'': while religious affairs were in themselves important, they also served as a stand-in for the more general displeasure of the German princes at the constant interference of the Emperor and of rulers across Europe at the constant interference of UsefulNotes/ThePope (it's no coincidence that the Pope tends to drop out of European history textbooks sometime in the 17th century). The Westphalian system continued unchallenged among Western powers until the 20th century, when a few theoreticians attempted to make modifications in response to the atrocities of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII and the nasty business after TheGreatPoliticsMessUp (particularly UsefulNotes/TheYugoslavWars). Nevertheless, the modern system of states is more or less Westphalian, and several states (particularly [[RedChina China]] and to a lesser extent [[TheNewRussia Russia]]) still insist on it.

to:

Indeed, 'sovereignty' is the real meaning of ''cuius regio, eius religio'': while religious affairs were in themselves important, they also served as a stand-in for the more general displeasure of the German princes at the constant interference of the Emperor and of rulers across Europe at the constant interference of UsefulNotes/ThePope (it's no coincidence that the Pope tends to drop out of European history textbooks sometime in the 17th century). The Westphalian system continued unchallenged among Western powers until the 20th century, when a few theoreticians attempted to make modifications in response to the atrocities of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII and the nasty business after TheGreatPoliticsMessUp (particularly UsefulNotes/TheYugoslavWars). Nevertheless, the modern system of states is more or less Westphalian, and several states (particularly [[RedChina China]] and to a lesser extent [[TheNewRussia [[UsefulNotes/TheNewRussia Russia]]) still insist on it.
20th Aug '17 10:59:51 AM nombretomado
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* While it's primarily an XMeetsY crossover between [[Literature/TheThreeMusketeers Musketeers]] and [[OurMonstersAreDifferent various supernatural elements]], ''All For One: Regime Diabolique'' has the war as a major backdrop and it is entirely possible for characters to be caught up in it.

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* While it's primarily an XMeetsY JustForFun/XMeetsY crossover between [[Literature/TheThreeMusketeers Musketeers]] and [[OurMonstersAreDifferent various supernatural elements]], ''All For One: Regime Diabolique'' has the war as a major backdrop and it is entirely possible for characters to be caught up in it.
15th Jul '17 3:11:54 PM nombretomado
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* German 1910 historical novel ''Der Wehrwolf'' (''The Warwolf'') by Hermann Löns, a revenge-fantasy about North-German peasants who, after having been plundered and brutalized repeatedly by occupying troops, become guerrillas who routinely ambush and massacre foraging soldiers. The book is notorious for being a favorite of the Nazis; it directly inspired the terrorist ''Werwolf'' guerrillas at the end of WorldWarII. From the other wiki:

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* German 1910 historical novel ''Der Wehrwolf'' (''The Warwolf'') by Hermann Löns, a revenge-fantasy about North-German peasants who, after having been plundered and brutalized repeatedly by occupying troops, become guerrillas who routinely ambush and massacre foraging soldiers. The book is notorious for being a favorite of the Nazis; it directly inspired the terrorist ''Werwolf'' guerrillas at the end of WorldWarII.UsefulNotes/WorldWarII. From the other wiki:
4th Jun '17 9:51:25 AM StarSword
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The war itself had ''extremely'' long-lasting effects, the most notable of which was the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty Westphalian theory of sovereignty]], which is to say the idea that a state has territory, population, a government, and that foreigners do not (directly) interfere in its affairs, leading directly to the modern concept of the nation-state. Some present-day Mainland Chinese scholars have tried to tout [[UsefulNotes/DynastiesFromShangToQing the contemporary Ming Empire's]] model of vassal/client-state relations with the outside world as the 'true precedent of the concept of national sovereignty' instead. However, it should be noted that while this model did deny the right of any Barbarian power to interfere with Ming domestic affairs, it explicitly endorsed the Ming's right to intervene in those of its client-states - [[CriticalResearchFailure i.e. the exact opposite of the whole point of Westphalia]].[[note]] On the other hand, this is kind of the point about Mainland China's idea of sovereignty and the proper relationship between China and not-China. [[/note]]

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The war itself had ''extremely'' long-lasting effects, the most notable of which was the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty Westphalian theory of sovereignty]], which is to say the idea that a state has territory, population, a government, and that foreigners do not (directly) (overtly) interfere in its affairs, leading directly to the modern concept of the nation-state. Some present-day Mainland Chinese scholars have tried to tout [[UsefulNotes/DynastiesFromShangToQing the contemporary Ming Empire's]] model of vassal/client-state relations with the outside world as the 'true precedent of the concept of national sovereignty' instead. However, it should be noted that while this model did deny the right of any Barbarian power to interfere with Ming domestic affairs, it explicitly endorsed the Ming's right to intervene in those of its client-states - [[CriticalResearchFailure i.e. the exact opposite of the whole point of Westphalia]].[[note]] On the other hand, this is kind of the point about Mainland China's idea of sovereignty and the proper relationship between China and not-China. [[/note]]



* The first half of the {{Music/Sabaton}} album ''Carolus Rex'' covers this, emphasizing the horrors of the war.

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* The first half of the {{Music/Sabaton}} album ''Carolus Rex'' covers this, this from Sweden's perspective, emphasizing the horrors of the war. "A Lifetime of War" in particular covers it in two different ways: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvdbDw5bXnQ the English version of the song]] spends the first verse discussing the causes of the war (royal ambitions disguised by religious zealotry) before moving into an entire song of [[WhatTheHellHero "What the Hell, Europe?"]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo3cd1Rjsz4 The Swedish version]] focuses on the experiences of a common soldier fighting the war.
6th Apr '17 11:14:23 AM Brokenlampshade
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* There is a [[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3307/wallenstein board game]] ''Wallenstein'', set in the Thirty Years War.

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* There is a [[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3307/wallenstein board game]] ''Wallenstein'', ''Wallenstein'']] is set in the Thirty Years War.
6th Apr '17 11:13:10 AM Brokenlampshade
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* There is also a [[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3307/wallenstein board game]] called ''Wallenstein'', set in the Thirty Years War.

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* There is also a [[http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3307/wallenstein board game]] called ''Wallenstein'', set in the Thirty Years War.
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