History UsefulNotes / RedsWithRockets

17th Aug '16 3:39:44 PM Harrenwolf
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* The Germans only had the logistical strength for a single operation to a maximum depth of 500km before a necessary operational pause to allow forward stockpiling. It was essential that they halt for at least a month, and ideally three, to build up supply stockpiles in Latvia and Belarus and Western Ukraine. Yet the Germans only went onto the defensive in the centre, pushing their forces onward in the Ukraine and the Baltic in the second campaign (July-September). Consequently the advancing troops did not have sufficient ammunition supplies and so took such heavy losses that they were barely effective in the third campaign (Taifun, October). Logistical preparations for the third campaign (October-November) were undermined by expenditure during the second campaign and stockpiles ran out by the middle of October. Poorly-armed and trained Soviet troops were then able to fight the Germans on equal terms because of the shortages of ammunition. Ultimately, in the First Period of War German 'victory fever' and inattention to logistics caused them to take losses [[PyrhicVictory they could not afford]], even if they managed to inflict heavy losses on the Soviets in turn. Thus the first turning point of the war was early on. Convincing arguments have been made for ''Taifun'' (October-November), ''Kiev'' (September), and even ''Smolensk'' (July) being turning points, with each campaign cumulatively reducing Germany's options and capabilities until there was no longer any hope of winning a quick war. By the time of The Winter Counter-Offensive of 1941-2, let alone Stalingrad, Soviet survival was no longer at stake. This meant the Soviet advantages in military theory and weaponry would (thanks to Soviet industry) be able to counter short-term German advantages in operational skill and troop training.

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* The Germans only had the logistical strength for a single operation to a maximum depth of 500km before a necessary operational pause to allow forward stockpiling. It was essential that they halt for at least a month, and ideally three, to build up supply stockpiles in Latvia and Belarus and Western Ukraine. Yet the Germans only went onto the defensive in the centre, pushing their forces onward in the Ukraine and the Baltic in the second campaign (July-September). Consequently the advancing troops did not have sufficient ammunition supplies and so took such heavy losses that they were barely effective in the third campaign (Taifun, October). Logistical preparations for the third campaign (October-November) were undermined by expenditure during the second campaign and stockpiles ran out by the middle of October. Poorly-armed and trained Soviet troops were then able to fight the Germans on equal terms because of the shortages of ammunition. Ultimately, in the First Period of War German 'victory fever' and inattention to logistics caused them to take losses [[PyrhicVictory [[PyrrhicVictory they could not afford]], even if they managed to inflict heavy losses on the Soviets in turn. Thus the first turning point of the war was early on. Convincing arguments have been made for ''Taifun'' (October-November), ''Kiev'' (September), and even ''Smolensk'' (July) being turning points, with each campaign cumulatively reducing Germany's options and capabilities until there was no longer any hope of winning a quick war. By the time of The Winter Counter-Offensive of 1941-2, let alone Stalingrad, Soviet survival was no longer at stake. This meant the Soviet advantages in military theory and weaponry would (thanks to Soviet industry) be able to counter short-term German advantages in operational skill and troop training.
24th Jul '16 8:43:05 AM Synthesis
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** This was supposedly the the T-55's actual replacement, even for the Russians. The ultimately lackluster export T-62 chipped in a few key features to the T-55's philosophy of not-so-high tech, mass produced, but solid armored units to create the next best-seller for Soviet Main Battle Tanks. With a constantly revised auto-loading D-81T 125mm smoothbore gun, thick frontal armor with provisions for extra protective add-ons, and decent mobility, the T-72 is still a fearsome weapon in a competent tank corp. It is also uncommon for the tank to exceed fifty tons, giving it a strategic advantage in out-manoeuvring its more advanced contemporaries like the Leopard 2, both iterations of the 120mm armed Challenger, the M1 Abrams series, the French AMX-56, and the Italian Ariete in areas with poor ground infrastructure.

to:

** This was supposedly the the T-55's actual replacement, even for the Russians.Soviets. The ultimately lackluster export T-62 chipped in a few key features to the T-55's philosophy of not-so-high tech, mass produced, but solid armored units to create the next best-seller for Soviet Main Battle Tanks. With a constantly revised auto-loading D-81T 125mm smoothbore gun, thick frontal armor with provisions for extra protective add-ons, and decent mobility, the T-72 is still a fearsome weapon in a competent tank corp. It is also uncommon for the tank to exceed fifty tons, giving it a strategic advantage in out-manoeuvring its more advanced contemporaries like the Leopard 2, both iterations of the 120mm armed Challenger, the M1 Abrams series, the French AMX-56, and the Italian Ariete in areas with poor ground infrastructure.


Added DiffLines:

** By contrast, Syria's T-72M1 tanks (note: Unlike Iraq above, Syria was the Soviet Union's closest ally in the Middle East, and was home to one of the few Soviet naval bases abroad in Tartus) performed [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72#Syria shocking well against Israeli tanks in the 1982 Lebanon War]]. While details vary, both sides acknowledged that Syrian armor effectively engaged and destroyed the best tanks [[IsraelisWithInfraredMissiles Israel]] had to offer, the M[=60A1=] and famed Merkava in South Lebanon, with few or no losses. Then-president of Syria Hafez Al-Assad described the export model T-72M1 tanks as "The best tanks in the world." Given the prestigious reputation of the Merkava (a very effective T-62 killer) and circumstances where Patton tanks handily outperformed T-72 tanks in other wars, the conflict probably spoke a great deal to the importance of up-to-date parts and training from the manufacturing country for an tank importer (not just Soviet tanks, but in general).
1st Jul '16 12:42:26 PM Anddrix
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* Marshal of the Soviet Union '''Georgy Zhukov:''' Major player in the UsefulNotes/GreatPatrioticWar, he got the Hero of the Soviet Union medal four times (the only person to have done so legitimately), and [[ChestOfMedals is said to be Russian history's most decorated officer]]. He is popularly believed to have arrested Lavrentiy Beria, who was chief of the NKVD under Stalin and one of the top figures in the Soviet hierarchy after Stalin's death. Contrary to what Aussies believe, Zhukov was the first man to defeat Imperial Japan in battle (Khalkhin Gol encirclement operation, 1939), and he did it with the neglected, ill-equipped Mongolian and eastern Soviet forces (whom he had nothing but admiration for). He was responsible for the Soviet offensive operation at Smolensk in July 1941, which forced the Germans onto the defensive and ended their (hopelessly optimistic) plan to occupy Moscow by the end of the month. In his time he was a highly underrated general among the Allies, and was actually seen by Eisenhower (the man who commanded Montgomery and Patton) as the finest general the Allied forces had to offer. Tactically he was only passably competent, and some such as Anthony Beevor have actually maintained that he was ''incompetent'' in this role, but it is hard to question that his planning and conduct of operations and his grasp of strategy was anything less than inspired. His 'style' was [[OccamsRazor blunt and callous, but undeniably effective]] - like the man himself. Zhukov himself would have been very quick to point out the greater importance of his subordinates and colleagues (Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Vatutin, etcetc), rather than analysing his own role in isolation. Among military historians, assessment of Zhukov's true abilities is a notable BaseBreaker.

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* Marshal of the Soviet Union '''Georgy Zhukov:''' Major player in the UsefulNotes/GreatPatrioticWar, he got the Hero of the Soviet Union medal four times (the only person to have done so legitimately), and [[ChestOfMedals is said to be Russian history's most decorated officer]]. He is popularly believed to have arrested Lavrentiy Beria, who was chief of the NKVD under Stalin and one of the top figures in the Soviet hierarchy after Stalin's death. Contrary to what Aussies believe, Zhukov was the first man to defeat Imperial Japan in battle (Khalkhin Gol encirclement operation, 1939), and he did it with the neglected, ill-equipped Mongolian and eastern Soviet forces (whom he had nothing but admiration for). He was responsible for the Soviet offensive operation at Smolensk in July 1941, which forced the Germans onto the defensive and ended their (hopelessly optimistic) plan to occupy Moscow by the end of the month. In his time he was a highly underrated general among the Allies, and was actually seen by Eisenhower (the man who commanded Montgomery and Patton) as the finest general the Allied forces had to offer. Tactically he was only passably competent, and some such as Anthony Beevor have actually maintained that he was ''incompetent'' in this role, but it is hard to question that his planning and conduct of operations and his grasp of strategy was anything less than inspired. His 'style' was [[OccamsRazor blunt and callous, but undeniably effective]] - like the man himself. Zhukov himself would have been very quick to point out the greater importance of his subordinates and colleagues (Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Vatutin, etcetc), rather than analysing his own role in isolation. Among military historians, assessment of Zhukov's true abilities is a notable BaseBreaker.
18th Apr '16 11:43:58 AM Synthesis
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** The Russians were the ones who mainly got the use the 74. The satellite states either received only very limited amounts of 5.45 guns, made only a few of them before [[TheGreatPoliticsMessUp the Soviet Union Collapsed]], or never had them at all.

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** The Russians were Soviet Union first adopted the ones who mainly got the use the 74. The satellite states either received only very limited amounts new AK-74--there was varying levels of 5.45 guns, made only a few of them adoption in other countries before [[TheGreatPoliticsMessUp the Soviet Union Collapsed]], or never had them at all.Collapsed]] (for example, Soviet-aligned Mongolia used the AKM more generally, and the AK-74 for specialized troops, whereas East Germany and Poland manufactured their own local models.
18th Apr '16 11:35:57 AM Synthesis
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Largely a conscript force, unlike the USA's more volunteer force (at least after the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar). Pretty much everything about Soviet armed forces was designed around reliability, from durable-but-simple vehicles, to every distinct form of weapon having a distinctly named ammo (even if two different weapons had, say, rounds 40mm in diameter, the Soviets would call one of them a 38mm round, just so idiots in the supply chain would be less likely to make mistakes). The durable-but-simple philosophy also made it possible for the Soviets to have a remarkably successful foreign arms trade, even with lower productivity in their electronics sector; versions of vehicles made for export simply left out the bits that were tricky to manufacture and used cheaper (i.e. weaker) materials for everything, e.g. hull armor. Thus, say, the BMP-2 that Egypt operated was a ''much'' different beast than the BMP-2 that the Soviets themselves had.

to:

Largely a conscript force, unlike the USA's more volunteer force (at least after the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar). Pretty much everything about Soviet armed forces was designed around reliability, from durable-but-simple vehicles, to every distinct form of weapon having a distinctly named ammo (even if two different weapons had, say, rounds 40mm in diameter, the Soviets would call one of them a 38mm round, just so idiots in the supply chain would be less likely to make mistakes). The durable-but-simple philosophy also made it possible for the Soviets to have a remarkably successful foreign arms trade, even with lower productivity in their electronics sector; versions of vehicles made for export simply left out the bits that were tricky to manufacture and used cheaper (i.e. weaker) materials for everything, e.g. hull armor. Thus, say, the BMP-2 BMP-1 that Egypt operated was a ''much'' different beast than the BMP-2 BMP-1 that the Soviets themselves had.
30th Mar '16 7:07:56 AM MAI742
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Broadly, the Soviets focused on fighting simple and fighting smart - using simple and easy to maintain weapons, focusing on logistics, planning, and leadership. Similarly, the Soviets had ([[BoringButPractical simple, but devastatingly clever]]) campaign plans that they would make months and years in advance and in agonising (and astonishingly accurate) detail.

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Broadly, the Soviets focused on fighting simple and fighting smart - using simple and easy to maintain weapons, focusing on logistics, planning, and leadership. Similarly, the The Soviets had would work out the broad strokes of campaigns months and years in advance, giving them solid guidelines for further planning or even improvisation right off the bat. While the use of Deception was practically a mandatory requirement of all planning, they still tended towards ([[BoringButPractical simple, but devastatingly clever]]) campaign plans simplicity in order to minimise the number of things that they would make months and years in advance and in agonising (and astonishingly accurate) detail.could go wrong]].
29th Mar '16 5:00:52 PM Alceister
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** The T-34 '''concept''' had been the soundest ever fielded up to 1945: a tank designed in the late 1930s could have been either a heavy, lumbering monster (T-35, Char B1) or [[FragileSpeedster maneuverable, but lightly armored]] (Somua S-35, BT, Pzkpfw 38(t), Pzkpfw III, Pzkpfw IV), while a tank designed with the experience or the 1940-1941 campaigns in mind could have been either cheap, lightly armed [[ZergRush and built by the thousands]], or complex, nearly unbeatable in the field, heavily armed, ran by men like Wittmann, but [[AwesomeButImpractical just as expensive as its weight in gold]]. Modern designs like British Comet came too late to be meaningful in war. Only two projects matched every requirement (speed, armor, gun, manoeuvrability) and asked for more: M24 Chaffee and T-34, and the last got it right due to the engine, above all: the only 400-500hp tank engine which could be made to tip the scales at just 750kg dry weight. Before the British Meteor engine came, which was stronger and lighter. All other 1941-vintage engines weighed 1000-1200-1500kg easily, while the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine in the Sherman weighed a ridiculous 2384kg (5244lbs!).

to:

** The T-34 '''concept''' had been the soundest ever fielded up to 1945: a tank designed in the late 1930s could have been either a heavy, lumbering monster (T-35, Char B1) or [[FragileSpeedster maneuverable, but lightly armored]] (Somua S-35, BT, (BT, Pzkpfw 38(t), Pzkpfw III, Pzkpfw IV), while a tank designed with the experience or the 1940-1941 campaigns in mind could have been either cheap, lightly armed [[ZergRush and built by the thousands]], or complex, nearly unbeatable in the field, heavily armed, ran by men like Wittmann, but [[AwesomeButImpractical just as expensive as its weight in gold]]. Modern designs like British Comet came too late to be meaningful in war. Only two projects matched every requirement (speed, armor, gun, manoeuvrability) and asked for more: M24 Chaffee and T-34, and the last got it right due to the engine, above all: the only 400-500hp tank engine which could be made to tip the scales at just 750kg dry weight. Before the British Meteor engine came, which was stronger more powerful and lighter. All even lighter, all other 1941-vintage engines weighed 1000-1200-1500kg easily, while the Chrysler Multi-Bank engine in the Sherman weighed a ridiculous 2384kg (5244lbs!).
29th Mar '16 4:51:16 PM Alceister
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* [[http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm Mosin-Nagant]] - actually entered service in the 19th century, long before UsefulNotes/RedOctober. Designed by Captain Sergei Mosin -- contrary to the name, Belgian Léon Nagant had almost nothing to do with the gun at all. Around 37 million were built up until the 1950's, and remain in use today. In service during both World Wars, the Mosin-Nagant is a highly rugged and reliable rifle, as well as quite accurate; the design's main attraction however, was its simplicity. WeaponOfChoice of the most deadly sniper ever: [[http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp Simo Häyhä, also known as "the White Death"]].

to:

* [[http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm Mosin-Nagant]] - actually entered service in the 19th century, long before UsefulNotes/RedOctober. Designed by Captain Sergei Mosin -- contrary to the name, Belgian Léon Nagant had almost nothing to do with the gun at all. Around 37 million were built up until the 1950's, and remain in use today. In service during both World Wars, the Mosin-Nagant is a highly rugged and reliable rifle, as well as quite accurate; the design's main attraction however, was its simplicity.simplicity, which allows for manufacture with less sophisticated tooling. WeaponOfChoice of the most deadly sniper ever: [[http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp Simo Häyhä, also known as "the White Death"]].
1st Mar '16 7:55:46 PM TheJrade1
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* The MoreDakka design philosophy continued with the Kalashnikov family. As stated above, [=AKs=] are extremely reliable and easy to obtain, but the stereotype also holds that they struggle to match TheOnion in accuracy. In reality, the AK-pattern rifles have always reached a fair standard of accuracy. The AKM has an official effective range of 350M[[note]] This is actually rather average for assault rifles[[note]], which is long enough to cover just about any distance encountered in typical infantry small arms engagements. onward had accuracy comparable to and in certain conditions better than[[note]]The AK-74, for example, has a standard effective range of 625 meters, but can have an area target capability of up to 1,000 meters with sight adjustments. The M16 has a standard effective range of around 550-600m, with an area target range of about 800-1,000 meters depending on the configuration.[[/note]] most NATO assault rifles, with the inaccuracy problem referring mostly to the early AK-47 line and its foreign derivatives. Since the early models are usually what people think of when someone mentions "Kalashnikovs," expect armchair experts to constantly state that ''all'' [=AKs=] are inaccurate. Moreover, as reliable as they may be, even AK rifles need be properly maintained and fed with decent quality ammunition to reach their full potential.

to:

* The MoreDakka design philosophy continued with the Kalashnikov family. As stated above, [=AKs=] are extremely reliable and easy to obtain, but the stereotype also holds that they struggle to match TheOnion in accuracy. In reality, the AK-pattern rifles have always reached a fair standard of accuracy. The AKM has an official effective range of 350M[[note]] This is actually rather average for assault rifles[[note]], which is long enough to cover just about any distance encountered in typical infantry small arms engagements. onward had accuracy comparable to and in certain conditions better than[[note]]The AK-74, for example, has a standard effective range of 625 meters, but can have an area target capability of up to 1,000 meters with sight adjustments. The M16 has a standard effective range of around 550-600m, with an area target range of about 800-1,000 meters depending on the configuration.[[/note]] most NATO assault rifles, with the inaccuracy problem referring mostly to the early AK-47 line and its foreign derivatives. Since the early models are usually what people think of when someone mentions "Kalashnikovs," expect armchair experts to constantly state that ''all'' [=AKs=] are inaccurate. Moreover, as reliable as they may be, even AK rifles need be properly maintained and fed with decent quality ammunition to reach their full potential. Much of the AK's reputation for inaccuracy comes from the shoddy manufacturing standards observed in AKs not constructed in Russia and without licensing from Kalashnikov Concern.
11th Jan '16 11:56:02 AM Alceister
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* [[http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm Mosin-Nagant]] - actually entered service in the 19th century, long before UsefulNotes/RedOctober. Designed by Captain Sergei Mosin -- contrary to the name, Belgian Léon Nagant had almost nothing to do with the gun at all. Around 37 million were built up until the 1950's, and remain in use today. In service during both World Wars, the Mosin-Nagant is a highly rugged and reliable rifle, as well as quite accurate. WeaponOfChoice of the most deadly sniper ever: [[http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp Simo Häyhä, also known as "the White Death"]].

to:

* [[http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl03-e.htm Mosin-Nagant]] - actually entered service in the 19th century, long before UsefulNotes/RedOctober. Designed by Captain Sergei Mosin -- contrary to the name, Belgian Léon Nagant had almost nothing to do with the gun at all. Around 37 million were built up until the 1950's, and remain in use today. In service during both World Wars, the Mosin-Nagant is a highly rugged and reliable rifle, as well as quite accurate.accurate; the design's main attraction however, was its simplicity. WeaponOfChoice of the most deadly sniper ever: [[http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp Simo Häyhä, also known as "the White Death"]].
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