History UsefulNotes / AtomicBombingsOfHiroshimaAndNagasaki

16th Jan '17 12:09:10 PM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


In August 1945 UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[UsefulNotes/KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[UsefulNotes/NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.

to:

In August 1945 UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan UsefulNotes/ImperialJapan stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[UsefulNotes/KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[UsefulNotes/NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.
20th Oct '16 10:21:36 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


The decision to approve the bombing accomplished everything it was meant to achieve… sorta. The Soviets appeared to respect the USA's ruthlessness and power enough not to [[WorldWarThree start anything]] or drive too hard a bargain over the future of East Asia[[note]]In reality, they were just too tired and could not be bothered. The war had totally exhausted them, the last thing they wanted was another right now—they had a decent-sized "buffer zone" in Central/Eastern Europe against an Allied invasion, and that was all they wanted. Interestingly, the Soviet intelligence services knew pretty much everything about the bombs except how exactly they worked, and even that didn't stay hidden from them for more than a few years[[/note]], the premature defeat of Japan allowed the Guomindang to reclaim most of China for themselves (the USAAF used its transport planes and bombers to ferry them over to accept the surrender of most garrisons) and it would remain that way until 1949-50 and the latter stages of [[NoMoreEmperors the Chinese Civil War]]. All of Japan was secured for the USA, the ca. 500,000 (inc. ca. 100k deaths) almost entirely American[[note]]Just three divisions (a Commonwealth division had 14k men and unlike Soviet and German divisions was usually at or near full strength, so they'd have numbered a touch under 40k altogether) of British, Canadian, and Australian troops were included in the force. Their weaponry and ammunition, equipment, unit structure, and tactical-/trategic doctrine was just too different for them to be included in greater numbers. Most of the Royal Navy was slated to show up, however[[/note]] and ca.1-10 million Japanese civilian casualties[[note]]The estimate at the time was a bit lower, but we now know that the cessation of hostilities and the massive quantities of food-aid from the Allies prevented an absolutely massive famine from occurring from the autumn of 1945 onwards[[/note]]expected to result from [[AC:Downfall]] were averted, and [[UsefulNotes/TheKoreanWar even a bit of Korea was given over to The Allies…]]

to:

The decision to approve the bombing accomplished everything it was meant to achieve… sorta. The Soviets appeared to respect the USA's ruthlessness and power enough not to [[WorldWarThree start anything]] or drive too hard a bargain over the future of East Asia[[note]]In reality, they were just too tired and could not be bothered. The war had totally exhausted them, the last thing they wanted was another right now—they had a decent-sized "buffer zone" in Central/Eastern Europe against an Allied invasion, and that was all they wanted. Interestingly, the Soviet intelligence services knew pretty much everything about the bombs except how exactly they worked, and even that didn't stay hidden from them for more than a few years[[/note]], the premature defeat of Japan allowed the Guomindang to reclaim most of China for themselves (the USAAF used its transport planes and bombers to ferry them over to accept the surrender of most garrisons) and it would remain that way until 1949-50 and the latter stages of [[NoMoreEmperors [[UsefulNotes/NoMoreEmperors the Chinese Civil War]]. All of Japan was secured for the USA, the ca. 500,000 (inc. ca. 100k deaths) almost entirely American[[note]]Just three divisions (a Commonwealth division had 14k men and unlike Soviet and German divisions was usually at or near full strength, so they'd have numbered a touch under 40k altogether) of British, Canadian, and Australian troops were included in the force. Their weaponry and ammunition, equipment, unit structure, and tactical-/trategic doctrine was just too different for them to be included in greater numbers. Most of the Royal Navy was slated to show up, however[[/note]] and ca.1-10 million Japanese civilian casualties[[note]]The estimate at the time was a bit lower, but we now know that the cessation of hostilities and the massive quantities of food-aid from the Allies prevented an absolutely massive famine from occurring from the autumn of 1945 onwards[[/note]]expected to result from [[AC:Downfall]] were averted, and [[UsefulNotes/TheKoreanWar even a bit of Korea was given over to The Allies…]]
20th Oct '16 9:41:52 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


In August 1945 UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.

to:

In August 1945 UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun [[UsefulNotes/KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors [[UsefulNotes/NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.
30th Sep '16 8:01:25 PM MAI742
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given the reservations of President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which the latter felt might be completely unnecessary given the internal threat that domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when widespread famine began in earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an a possible Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this This point was particularly important given that the reservations of Japanese Army and Navy were aware that President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which the latter felt might be completely unnecessary given the internal threat had reservations about American losses when executing ''Downfall''. All parties knew that this reservation was strengthened by the likelihood that a land invasion would be unnecessary, as domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when might successfully topple the Japanese regime after widespread famine began in earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).
30th Sep '16 7:56:59 PM MAI742
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about ''Downfall'', which they felt to be unnecessary given the inevitability of domestic rebellion or even revolution when the food crisis became an outright famine out sometime in the second half of 1945.

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about of President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which they the latter felt to might be completely unnecessary given the inevitability of internal threat that domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when the food crisis became an outright widespread famine out sometime began in the second half of 1945.earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).
30th Sep '16 7:54:13 PM MAI742
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The
and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about ''Downfall'', which they felt to be unnecessary given the inevitability of domestic rebellion or even revolution when the food crisis became an outright famine out sometime in the second half of 1945.
30th Sep '16 7:51:01 PM MAI742
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Destroy two of the four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.

to:

* Destroy Efficiently destroy two of the four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.with firebombing, as had been accomplished upon all other cities and most large towns.



* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to the Soviets were essentially worthless, as the Army vetoed attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever [[/note]]

to:

* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might depose (or even kill!) him and establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to Ambassador's negotiations with the Soviets were essentially worthless, completely fruitless and everyone knew it, as the Army vetoed all attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever to anyone at all [[/note]]
30th Sep '16 7:45:08 PM MAI742
Is there an issue? Send a Message


In the last month of the summer of 1945, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame. With UsefulNotes/NaziGermany defeated, ImperialJapan stood alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.

to:

In On the last month 6th and 9th of August 1945, the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were largely destroyed by nuclear weapons. This was done to:

* Destroy two
of the summer four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of 1945, more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.
* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.

Due to official secrecy on the American side (regarding intercepted Japanese diplomatic communiques, which gave the USA a relatively good insight into Japanese politics) and a lack of study on the Japanese side, until recently these events were some of the most misunderstood in history. Three versions of these events arose in the absence of full and accurate information:

* (Japan) [[IRejectYourReality After previous unwarranted US aggression/Apropos of nothing, the USA destroyed every city in Japan and then these cities to enslave Japan]].
* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to the Soviets were essentially worthless, as the Army vetoed attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever [[/note]]

'''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement This page is NOT about the moral, ethical, or other philosophical dimensions of whether or not the bombings were justified.]]'''

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Operation DOWNFALL]]

In August 1945
UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame. With endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan stood stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.



'''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement This page is NOT about whether or not the bombings were justified.]]'''

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Operation DOWNFALL]]
30th Sep '16 11:39:41 AM Hadjorim
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

Unofficially, this policy of arming civilians was called ''ichioku gyokusai'' (一億玉砕) literally meaning "100 million shattered jewels," referring to the total population of Japan sacrificing themselves in the coming battle. Japanese War Minister, General Anami, expressed during a meeting, "Would it not be wondrous for this whole nation to be destroyed, like a beautiful flower?"
2nd Aug '16 12:26:17 AM kazokuhouou
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''WebComic/AndShineHeavenNow'' it's implied that the only reason Nagasaki got bombed [[spoiler: was to take out a government research facility studying vampires. And the one who made it happen was [[ComicStrip/LittleOrphanAnnie Oliver Warbucks]].]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 198. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=UsefulNotes.AtomicBombingsOfHiroshimaAndNagasaki