History UsefulNotes / AtomicBombingsOfHiroshimaAndNagasaki

30th Sep '16 8:01:25 PM MAI742
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* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given the reservations of President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which the latter felt might be completely unnecessary given the internal threat that domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when widespread famine began in earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an a possible Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this This point was particularly important given that the reservations of Japanese Army and Navy were aware that President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which the latter felt might be completely unnecessary given the internal threat had reservations about American losses when executing ''Downfall''. All parties knew that this reservation was strengthened by the likelihood that a land invasion would be unnecessary, as domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when might successfully topple the Japanese regime after widespread famine began in earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).
30th Sep '16 7:56:59 PM MAI742
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* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about ''Downfall'', which they felt to be unnecessary given the inevitability of domestic rebellion or even revolution when the food crisis became an outright famine out sometime in the second half of 1945.

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion in October 1946 (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about of President Truman and the US Navy regarding ''Downfall'', which they the latter felt to might be completely unnecessary given the inevitability of internal threat that domestic rebellion or even revolution would pose when the food crisis became an outright widespread famine out sometime began in the second half of 1945.earnest (sometime in autumn 1945).
30th Sep '16 7:54:13 PM MAI742
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* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.

to:

* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The
and the number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.
** Note that this was particularly important given that the Navy had serious reservations about ''Downfall'', which they felt to be unnecessary given the inevitability of domestic rebellion or even revolution when the food crisis became an outright famine out sometime in the second half of 1945.
30th Sep '16 7:51:01 PM MAI742
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* Destroy two of the four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.

to:

* Destroy Efficiently destroy two of the four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.with firebombing, as had been accomplished upon all other cities and most large towns.



* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to the Soviets were essentially worthless, as the Army vetoed attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever [[/note]]

to:

* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might depose (or even kill!) him and establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to Ambassador's negotiations with the Soviets were essentially worthless, completely fruitless and everyone knew it, as the Army vetoed all attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever to anyone at all [[/note]]
30th Sep '16 7:45:08 PM MAI742
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In the last month of the summer of 1945, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame. With UsefulNotes/NaziGermany defeated, ImperialJapan stood alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.

to:

In On the last month 6th and 9th of August 1945, the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were largely destroyed by nuclear weapons. This was done to:

* Destroy two
of the summer four remaining industrial cities (of a pre-war total of 1945, more than sixty) which climatic conditions had made difficult to raze in the earlier firebombing campaign.
* Show that Japan's conventional defense of the Home Islands against an Allied land invasion (''Operation Downfall'') could now be easily brushed aside given the power and...
* The number of the Western Allies' nuclear weapons. Two was considered an adequate proof that they had made concerted effort to mass-produce them, so all further weapons were going to be held in reserve for use against Japanese land forces during the Allied invasion.

Due to official secrecy on the American side (regarding intercepted Japanese diplomatic communiques, which gave the USA a relatively good insight into Japanese politics) and a lack of study on the Japanese side, until recently these events were some of the most misunderstood in history. Three versions of these events arose in the absence of full and accurate information:

* (Japan) [[IRejectYourReality After previous unwarranted US aggression/Apropos of nothing, the USA destroyed every city in Japan and then these cities to enslave Japan]].
* (USA) The USA destroyed these cities in a successful bid to make Japan surrender and save the loss of American lives in a land invasion, whereupon Emperor Hirohito finally got involved in Imperial politics and overruled a semi-reluctant military to organise a surrender because he was so worried about his people dying. [[note]] Here we must note that when Hirohito noted concern over 'the internal situation', he was worried that the exponentially increasing deaths from famine would cause a revolution - and that if they were successful the revolutionaries might establish a republic [[/note]]
* (USA) The USA destroyed Hiroshima to demonstrate its 'resolve' to use Weapons of Mass Destruction in warfare to the Soviets, whose declaration of war upon Japan both caused Japanese surrender (as this made a negotiated surrender impossible) and prompted the USA to destroy Nagasaki so that the focus would remain upon the USA's role.[[note]] Here we must note that the Japanese civilians' offers to the Soviets were essentially worthless, as the Army vetoed attempts to give absolutely any territorial or other concessions to anyone whatsoever [[/note]]

'''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement This page is NOT about the moral, ethical, or other philosophical dimensions of whether or not the bombings were justified.]]'''

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Operation DOWNFALL]]

In August 1945
UsefulNotes/WorldWarII was in its endgame. With endgame with the European Axis headed by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany utterly defeated, and ImperialJapan stood stooding essentially alone. The half-million men of [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun the China Expeditionary Force]] had been largely cut off from supplies and its garrisons were left to rot on the vine, scouring the countryside for food and grain on an even greater scale than ever before even as [[UsefulNotes/ChiangKaiShek Generalissimo Chiang's]] [[NoMoreEmperors Guomindang]] moved to crush them one by one.



'''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement This page is NOT about whether or not the bombings were justified.]]'''

[[foldercontrol]]

[[folder: Operation DOWNFALL]]
30th Sep '16 11:39:41 AM Hadjorim
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Added DiffLines:

Unofficially, this policy of arming civilians was called ''ichioku gyokusai'' (一億玉砕) literally meaning "100 million shattered jewels," referring to the total population of Japan sacrificing themselves in the coming battle. Japanese War Minister, General Anami, expressed during a meeting, "Would it not be wondrous for this whole nation to be destroyed, like a beautiful flower?"
2nd Aug '16 12:26:17 AM kazokuhouou
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''WebComic/AndShineHeavenNow'' it's implied that the only reason Nagasaki got bombed [[spoiler: was to take out a government research facility studying vampires. And the one who made it happen was [[ComicStrip/LittleOrphanAnnie Oliver Warbucks]].]]
15th Jun '16 11:25:37 PM Hadjorim
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The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft. Most would be used in Kamikaze attacks (what the Japanese military then called, "Special Attacks"). During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Kamikaze attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Kamikaze forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.

to:

The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft. Most would be used in Kamikaze attacks (what the Japanese military then called, "Special Attacks").Attacks"), if for no other reason than their inexperienced pilots weren't good for much else. All Japan's aces had already been killed. Attempting to dog-fight with the Americans was useless. During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Kamikaze attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Kamikaze forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.
15th Jun '16 11:22:56 PM Hadjorim
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The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft. Most would be used in Kamikaze attacks (what the Japanese military then called, "Special Attacks"). During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Kamikaze attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. While this may not sound like a lot, it should be remembered that the USA had suffered very few deaths throughout the war (less than half a million) so this seemed like a very large number to them at the time. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Kamikaze forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.

In addition to this, the Japanese had built over 1000 suicide submarines of various types, and thousands of suicide boats (simply motorboats filled with explosives). As much as half of these might actually be in working order during the invasion, and the majority of these would of course be allocated to Kyushu. The Navy further hoped to employ thousands of "human mines"—men in diving gear who would swim out from shore and detonate bombs as the American transports passed over. On land, the Japanese had roughly a million soldiers with passable training and armament. Japanese civilians were also trained to fight to the death, using centuries-old muskets, longbows, bamboo spears—whatever they had. One Japanese schoolgirl related how she was handed a simple metal spike and told, "Even killing one American soldier will do. Aim for the abdomen." Another schoolboy related how he was trained to dive under an American tank with a satchel of explosives and set it off.

to:

The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft. Most would be used in Kamikaze attacks (what the Japanese military then called, "Special Attacks"). During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Kamikaze attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. While this may not sound like a lot, it should be remembered that the USA had suffered very few deaths throughout the war (less than half a million) so this seemed like a very large number to them at the time. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Kamikaze forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.

In addition to this, the Japanese had built over 1000 suicide submarines of various types, and thousands of suicide boats (simply motorboats filled with explosives). As much as half of these might actually be in working order during the invasion, and the majority of these would of course be allocated to Kyushu. The Navy further hoped to employ thousands of "human mines"—men in diving gear who would swim out from shore and detonate bombs as the American transports passed over. On land, the Japanese had roughly a million soldiers with passable training and armament.to oppose an invasion (of varying quality). Japanese civilians were also trained to fight to the death, using centuries-old muskets, longbows, bamboo spears—whatever they had. One Japanese schoolgirl related how she was handed a simple metal spike and told, "Even killing one American soldier will do. Aim for the abdomen." Another schoolboy related how he was trained to dive under an American tank with a satchel of explosives and set it off.
15th Jun '16 11:17:51 PM Hadjorim
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The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft of all types and in all conditions (of which a third might be in working order). Given the lack of fuel and munitions, most would have to be used in Special Attacks if they were to be of any use. During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Special Attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. While this may not sound like a lot, it should be remembered that the USA had suffered very few deaths throughout the war (less than half a million) so this seemed like a very large number to them at the time. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Special Attack forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.

to:

The Japanese answer to [[AC:Downfall]] was Operation ''[[AC:Ketsugō]].'' It wasn't hard to guess where the invasion would take place, and Japan began moving more and more troops to southern Kyushu. While the Japanese knew they had no hope of winning the war, they hoped that they could make invasion of the Home Islands too costly for the Allies to attempt. Even at this late stage, Japan retained around 10,000 aircraft of all types and in all conditions (of which a third might be in working order). Given the lack of fuel and munitions, most aircraft. Most would have to be used in Special Attacks if they were to be of any use. Kamikaze attacks (what the Japanese military then called, "Special Attacks"). During the Battle of Okinawa, the Japanese Navy had launched 1500 Special Attacks, Kamikaze attacks, achieving a hit-rate of around 11% and wounding or killing more than 10,000 U.S. Navy personnel. While this may not sound like a lot, it should be remembered that the USA had suffered very few deaths throughout the war (less than half a million) so this seemed like a very large number to them at the time. At Kyushu, due to more favorable terrain, the Japanese hoped for a hit rate of 17%. Furthermore, they would target troop carriers as they ferried men to the beaches, rather than the heavy navy ships, increasing casualties even further. With this, the Japanese hoped that the Special Attack Kamikaze forces alone could destroy 1/3 or more of the invasion force ''en route'' to the beaches.
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