History Trivia / SlidingScaleofIdealismVersusCynicism

27th Jan '14 12:00:59 AM krepta999
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* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is ''Film/TheMatrix''. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

to:

* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is ''Film/TheMatrix''. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and more literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".
24th Dec '13 1:56:47 AM johnnyfog
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->''"I think utopianism and eschatology are really two sides of the same coin. They both assume that some massively transformative event is going to happen that’s going to completely change the nature of society. They only disagree on whether we get a happy ending or all die horribly. And so utopianism is on the wane right now because at the moment most of the plausible candidates for huge historical transformation [[DarkMessiah look like they’re going to kill us.]]"''
-->-- '''[[http://mindlessones.com/2013/12/21/i-should-hope-my-writing-appalls-and-horrifies-you-the-phil-sandifer-interview/#more-29803 Phil Sandifer]]'''
24th Dec '13 1:54:47 AM johnnyfog
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Added DiffLines:

->''"I think utopianism and eschatology are really two sides of the same coin. They both assume that some massively transformative event is going to happen that’s going to completely change the nature of society. They only disagree on whether we get a happy ending or all die horribly. And so utopianism is on the wane right now because at the moment most of the plausible candidates for huge historical transformation [[DarkMessiah look like they’re going to kill us.]]"''
-->-- '''[[http://mindlessones.com/2013/12/21/i-should-hope-my-writing-appalls-and-horrifies-you-the-phil-sandifer-interview/#more-29803 Phil Sandifer]]'''
11th Jan '13 1:12:04 PM Diask
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* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is Film/TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism Cynicism]] (from the word kynikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kyôn, "dog", not that [[LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya Kyon]]) was the philosophy that proposes virtue as the greatest good, and rejection of conventional notions of happiness like those gained from idealism and materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with [[NietzscheWannabe Pessimism and Nihilism]]). The Cynics of these times even believed that people could gain happiness through a rigorous training and living a simple life that is in agreement with Nature (Which was pretty idealistic if you think about it). But the majority of the Cynics took it to its logical extreme. They lived a life of poverty, were highly indifferent, harshly criticized the wealthy and idealistic, and generally lived in a way that could best described as "dogs" (''There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.''). In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy.

to:

* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is Film/TheMatrix. ''Film/TheMatrix''. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

ideals".
* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism Cynicism]] (from the word kynikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kyôn, "dog", not that [[LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya Kyon]]) "dog") was the philosophy that proposes virtue as the greatest good, and rejection of conventional notions of happiness like those gained from idealism and materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with [[NietzscheWannabe [[StrawNihilist Pessimism and Nihilism]]). The Cynics of these times even believed that people could gain happiness through a rigorous training and living a simple life that is in agreement with Nature (Which was pretty idealistic if you think about it). But the majority of the Cynics took it to its logical extreme. They lived a life of poverty, were highly indifferent, harshly criticized the wealthy and idealistic, and generally lived in a way that could best described as "dogs" (''There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.''). In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy.philosophy.
----
6th Aug '12 7:45:20 AM FELH2
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* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism Cynicism]] (from the word kynikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kyôn, "dog", not that [[HaruhiSuzumiya Kyon]]) was the philosophy that proposes virtue as the greatest good, and rejection of conventional notions of happiness like those gained from idealism and materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with [[NietzscheWannabe Pessimism and Nihilism]]). The Cynics of these times even believed that people could gain happiness through a rigorous training and living a simple life that is in agreement with Nature (Which was pretty idealistic if you think about it). But the majority of the Cynics took it to its logical extreme. They lived a life of poverty, were highly indifferent, harshly criticized the wealthy and idealistic, and generally lived in a way that could best described as "dogs" (''There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.''). In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy.

to:

* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is TheMatrix.Film/TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism Cynicism]] (from the word kynikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kyôn, "dog", not that [[HaruhiSuzumiya [[LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya Kyon]]) was the philosophy that proposes virtue as the greatest good, and rejection of conventional notions of happiness like those gained from idealism and materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with [[NietzscheWannabe Pessimism and Nihilism]]). The Cynics of these times even believed that people could gain happiness through a rigorous training and living a simple life that is in agreement with Nature (Which was pretty idealistic if you think about it). But the majority of the Cynics took it to its logical extreme. They lived a life of poverty, were highly indifferent, harshly criticized the wealthy and idealistic, and generally lived in a way that could best described as "dogs" (''There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.''). In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy.
4th Jun '11 4:09:01 PM LogicallyDashing
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* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed or is heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

to:

* Originally, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the philosophy of perception that the world is composed of, or is heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this kind of idealism is TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".
31st Mar '11 1:33:28 PM 1111222333
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This trope is not to be confused with the philosophies of Idealism and Cynicism: Originally, Idealism was the metaphysical theory that the world is composed or is heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception (nowadays this worldview is called solipsism), while Cynicism was the philosophy that proposes living a virtuous life with Nature and rejecting conventional notions of happiness, such as happiness gained from materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with Pessimism and Nihilism). This Trope could be better known as a Sliding Scale of Optimism Versus Pessimism. In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy, while idealism, with its association with Platonism and its proposition of an ideal "World of Ideas" on which this imperfect world is merely a shadow, was associated with perfectionist (and therefore naive) thinking. Going by philosophical doctrine, it is possible for a Cynic to be an Optimist, and an Idealist to be a Pessimist.

to:

This trope is not to be confused with the philosophies of Idealism and Cynicism: Cynicism.

*
Originally, Idealism [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism Idealism]] was the metaphysical theory philosophy of perception that the world is composed or is heavily dependent on mind, ideas or perception (nowadays perception. Epistemological Idealists, like Kant, claim that the only things which can be directly known for certain are just ideas (abstractions. In other words, idealism simply meant that YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm of actual reality, and that what you see are just projections in your mind/brain). Such idealism is commonly associated with the philosophies of Plato and his idea of a "World Of Forms". In the Theory of Forms, our world is just a shadow of more complicated and perfect ideas. Similar ideas can be found in Hinduism, which the view that consciousness, which at its root emanates from God (Brahman, Purusha or Svayam bhagavan), is the essence or meaning of the phenomenal reality. One of the best analogies for this worldview kind of idealism is called solipsism), while Cynicism TheMatrix. Nowadays, such beliefs where the world is a projection of subjective experience is more commonly known as "solipsism", and here on Tv Tropes, we prefer to use idealism in its more simpler and literal definition, that is, "belief in ideals".

* [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism Cynicism]] (from the word kynikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kyôn, "dog", not that [[HaruhiSuzumiya Kyon]])
was the philosophy that proposes living a virtuous life with Nature virtue as the greatest good, and rejecting rejection of conventional notions of happiness, such as happiness like those gained from idealism and materialism (which means, Original Cynicism has more in common with Stoicism and Buddhism than with [[NietzscheWannabe Pessimism and Nihilism). This Trope Nihilism]]). The Cynics of these times even believed that people could be better known gain happiness through a rigorous training and living a simple life that is in agreement with Nature (Which was pretty idealistic if you think about it). But the majority of the Cynics took it to its logical extreme. They lived a life of poverty, were highly indifferent, harshly criticized the wealthy and idealistic, and generally lived in a way that could best described as a Sliding Scale "dogs" (''There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of Optimism Versus Pessimism. the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them.''). In contemporary times, the negativity and harsh scepticism of cynicism made thinkers in the late 18th and early 19th century consider it as a pessimistic philosophy, while idealism, with its association with Platonism and its proposition of an ideal "World of Ideas" on which this imperfect world is merely a shadow, was associated with perfectionist (and therefore naive) thinking. Going by philosophical doctrine, it is possible for a Cynic to be an Optimist, and an Idealist to be a Pessimist.philosophy.
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