History ThatOneLevel / MMORPG

17th Aug '16 9:04:00 PM Hadjorim
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* Classic World of Warcraft before the expansions. Like all [=MMOs=] in those days, Classic World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. And yet World of Warcraft with its quest system was actually an improvement on most [=MMOs=] of the time, which basically ran on grinding alone, and though it could be difficult at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=] which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.

to:

* Classic World of Warcraft before the expansions. Like all [=MMOs=] in those days, Classic World of Warcraft was could be tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. And yet World of Warcraft with its quest system was actually an improvement on most [=MMOs=] of the time, which basically ran on grinding alone, and though it could be difficult at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=] which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.
17th Aug '16 9:03:10 PM Hadjorim
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* Classic World of Warcraft before the expansions. Like all MMOs in those days, Classic World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. And yet World of Warcraft with its quest system was actually an improvement on most MMOs of the time, which basically ran on grinding alone, and though it could be difficult at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=] which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.

to:

* Classic World of Warcraft before the expansions. Like all MMOs [=MMOs=] in those days, Classic World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. And yet World of Warcraft with its quest system was actually an improvement on most MMOs [=MMOs=] of the time, which basically ran on grinding alone, and though it could be difficult at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=] which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.
17th Aug '16 9:02:40 PM Hadjorim
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* Classic World of Warcraft ''in general'' was this for the series as a whole. There's no point in even going into specific examples. While later expansions improved the game significantly, Classic World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. Thing is, this was very typical for [=MMOs=] at the time, which had high levels of GuideDangIt, and World of Warcraft was actually an ''improvement'' and far more forgiving. As frustrating as its quests could be, it was still a marked improvement on most [=MMOs=] at the time, which ran on grinding and grinding alone, and if Classic World of Warcraft could be difficult, at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=], which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.
* The Oculus was the most hated dungeon in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. This is entirely due to the end section where players jump onto the backs of dragons to fight the final boss. This replaces all their old abilities with new dragon abilities, and is actually rather fun if everyone knows what to do. ''No one ever does''. It got so bad Blizzard had to add in extra loot for the final boss just to prevent people from instantly dropping group the moment it popped up.
** The first boss of Halls of Reflection was another. Enemies come at you in waves, and except for a continue point halfway through, you have to start over if you wipe. These enemies are ''extremely tough.'' The only way many players found they could succeed was by huddling in a little corner of the room, just barely out of line of sight of the spawning enemies, giving them some time and a chance to avoid enemy spells.
*** This is more a case of trying to bypass mechanics. The waves contained the same groups of enemies and if they are dealt with in a particular order and utilizing crowd control was largely simple as the more damaging an enemy had the less health they had. Most players were coming into the new dungeons with an idea that mechanics could be ignored in favor of AoE spam leading to the above "strategy". The problem is that this brought everything on the entire group at once making survival a much more difficult proposition. It's a case of doing the section the intended way is much simpler and faster than trying to ignore the intended method.
* Vashj'ir in Cataclysm. Many claim the zone is an example of AtlantisIsBoring, but the zone is actually quite diverse, with seaweed forests, massive palaces, deep ravines, underwater caves, and enormous sea creatures. Its status as a ScrappyLevel seems to come mostly from the fact that people just don't like underwater levels. It's necessarily darker than most, and always a shade of blue, giving a constant feeling of heaviness and sneaking claustrophobia. People just generally see water more as a place to ''get out of'' rather than a place to stay for an extended period of time. There ''are'' two objective problems with the zone however. When first released it was incredibly buggy, preventing some people from even progressing through it (you can still get screwed on the final quest if you're unlucky). Secondly, the whole theme of the zone was a build-up to a confrontation with underwater [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch abominations]] which, while planned to be released later, [[OrphanedSeries never happened,]] making the whole thing feel pointless.
* Uldum, another Cataclysm zone, become a BaseBreaker for plot-related reasons. While a lot of players love it for its many, many {{ShoutOut}}s to ''Franchise/IndianaJones'', just as many dislike it for [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot squandering the potential for epic titan lore and development of a cool new race in favor of one long ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' parody]]. Even players that like the homage get fed up with the large number of (frequently glitchy) cutscenes.
* The Dragon Soul raid which was the GrandFinale for Cataclysm is not well liked by many World of Warcraft players, with some going as far to call it the worst raid ever. The raid takes place in completely recycled locations, featuring bosses with completely recycled models. Even the trailer which preceded the raid's release was a half-assed job. The final boss fight was criticized for being repetitive, and even the lore implications came in for a beating, with players accusing the plot of being an AssPull and making so sense.
* Trial of the Crusader. It's quite short for a raid, with only six bosses (The Faction Champions are quite difficult, but feels more like a [=PvP=] fight, so it's more frustrating than anything else) and no trash mobs between them. The latter might sound like a good idea on paper, given that most raids have at least one section of trash that's overly frustrating, long or otherwise annoying, but in this case, there's no chance for BOE epics. Virtually no one likes this raid, and it's often dismissed as a filler between the popular Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel raids.

to:

* Classic World of Warcraft ''in general'' was this for before the series as a whole. There's no point expansions. Like all MMOs in even going into specific examples. While later expansions improved the game significantly, those days, Classic World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. Thing is, this was very typical for [=MMOs=] at the time, which had high levels of GuideDangIt, and And yet World of Warcraft with its quest system was actually an ''improvement'' and far more forgiving. As frustrating as its quests could be, it was still a marked improvement on most [=MMOs=] at MMOs of the time, which basically ran on grinding and grinding alone, and if Classic World of Warcraft though it could be difficult, difficult at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=], [=MMOs=] which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.
* The Oculus was the most hated dungeon in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. This is entirely expansion due to the end section where dragon-riding segment at the end, which replaced all the players jump onto the backs of dragons to fight the final boss. This replaces all their old abilities with new dragon abilities, and is actually rather fun if everyone knows what to do. ''No one ever does''. It got so bad Blizzard had to add in extra loot for the final boss just to prevent controls which many people from instantly dropping group the moment it popped up.had no idea how to use.
** The first boss of Halls of Reflection was another. Enemies come at you in waves, and except for a continue point halfway through, you have to start over if you wipe. These enemies are ''extremely tough.'' The only way many players found they could succeed was by huddling in a little corner of the room, just barely out of line of sight of the spawning enemies, giving them some time and a chance to avoid enemy spells.
*** This is more a case of trying to bypass mechanics. The waves contained the same groups of enemies and if they are dealt with in a particular order and utilizing crowd control was largely simple as the more damaging an enemy had the less health they had. Most players were coming into the new dungeons with an idea that mechanics could be ignored in favor of AoE spam leading to the above "strategy". The problem is that this brought everything on the entire group at once making survival a much more difficult proposition. It's a case of doing the section the intended way is much simpler and faster than trying to ignore the intended method.
* Vashj'ir in Cataclysm. Many claim the zone is an example of AtlantisIsBoring, but the zone is actually quite diverse, with seaweed forests, massive palaces, deep ravines, underwater caves, and enormous sea creatures. Its status as a ScrappyLevel seems to come mostly from the fact that people just don't like underwater levels. It's necessarily darker than most, and always a shade of blue, giving a constant feeling of heaviness and sneaking claustrophobia. People just generally see water more as a place to ''get out of'' rather than a place to stay for an extended period of time. There ''are'' two objective problems with the zone however. When Also when first released it was incredibly buggy, preventing some people from even progressing through it (you can still get screwed on the final quest if you're unlucky). Secondly, unlucky), and secondly the whole theme of the zone was a build-up to a confrontation with underwater [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch abominations]] which, while planned to be released later, which [[OrphanedSeries never happened,]] making the whole thing feel pointless.
* Uldum, another Cataclysm zone, become a BaseBreaker for plot-related reasons. While a lot of Many players love it for its many, many {{ShoutOut}}s objected to ''Franchise/IndianaJones'', just as many dislike it for [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot squandering Blizzard taking what should have been an incredibly lore-rich zone about the potential for epic titan lore Titans and development of a cool new race in favor of one long ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' parody]]. Even players that like the homage get fed up with the large number of (frequently glitchy) cutscenes.turning it into an extended ''Franchise/IndianaJones'' parody.
* Again in Cataclysm: The Dragon Soul raid which was the GrandFinale for Cataclysm is not well liked by many World of Warcraft players, GrandFinale, with some going as far to call it the worst raid ever. The raid takes place in completely Completely recycled locations, featuring bosses with completely recycled models. Even the trailer which preceded the raid's release was a half-assed job. The final boss fight was criticized for being repetitive, and even the lore implications came in for a beating, with players accusing the plot of being an AssPull and making so sense.
* Trial of the Crusader. It's quite short for a raid, with only six bosses (The Faction Champions are quite difficult, but feels more like a [=PvP=] fight, so it's more frustrating than anything else) and no trash mobs between them. The latter might sound like a good idea on paper, given that most raids have at least one section of trash that's overly frustrating, long or otherwise annoying, but in this case, there's no chance for BOE epics. Virtually no one likes this raid, and it's often dismissed as a filler between the popular Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel raids.
half-assed.
17th Aug '16 1:00:29 PM Hadjorim
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* Classic WoW ''in general'' was this for the series as a whole. There's no point in even going into specific examples. While later expansions improved the game significantly, Classic WoW was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. Thing is, this was very typical for [=MMOs=] at the time, which had high levels of GuideDangIt, and World of Warcraft was actually an ''improvement'' and far more forgiving. As frustrating as its quests could be, it was still a marked improvement on most [=MMOs=] at the time, which ran on grinding and grinding alone, and if Classic WoW could be difficult, at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=], which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.

to:

* Classic WoW World of Warcraft ''in general'' was this for the series as a whole. There's no point in even going into specific examples. While later expansions improved the game significantly, Classic WoW World of Warcraft was tedious, grindy, and nonsensical. Thing is, this was very typical for [=MMOs=] at the time, which had high levels of GuideDangIt, and World of Warcraft was actually an ''improvement'' and far more forgiving. As frustrating as its quests could be, it was still a marked improvement on most [=MMOs=] at the time, which ran on grinding and grinding alone, and if Classic WoW World of Warcraft could be difficult, at least it wasn't as brutally punishing as some other [=MMOs=], which would deliberately go out of their way to screw players from their hard-earned gains.



* The Dragon Soul raid which was the GrandFinale for Cataclysm is not well liked by many WoW players, with some going as far to call it the worst raid ever. The raid takes place in completely recycled locations, featuring bosses with completely recycled models. Even the trailer which preceded the raid's release was a half-assed job. The final boss fight was criticized for being repetitive, and even the lore implications came in for a beating, with players accusing the plot of being an AssPull and making so sense.

to:

* The Dragon Soul raid which was the GrandFinale for Cataclysm is not well liked by many WoW World of Warcraft players, with some going as far to call it the worst raid ever. The raid takes place in completely recycled locations, featuring bosses with completely recycled models. Even the trailer which preceded the raid's release was a half-assed job. The final boss fight was criticized for being repetitive, and even the lore implications came in for a beating, with players accusing the plot of being an AssPull and making so sense.
11th Jun '16 9:25:59 AM Valiona
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* Trial of the Crusader. It's quite short for a raid, with only six bosses (The Faction Champions are quite difficult, but feels more like a [=PvP=] fight, so it's more frustrating than anything else) and no trash mobs between them. The latter might sound like a good idea on paper, given that most raids have at least one section of trash that's overly frustrating, long or otherwise annoying, but in this case, there's no chance for BOE epics. Virtually no one likes this raid, and it's often dismissed as a filler between the popular Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel raids.
14th May '16 10:05:43 AM Gilberta
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* VideoGame/GrandChase has Tower of Disappearance, which is called [[NintendoHard unforgiving]] by articles online. You only get one live. When you die, that's it. Not to mention that items, and revives are disabled. If you were to take too long to clear one area, you'll take damage constantly with no way to stop it until you enter the next area. Have fun reaching Kaze'aze!
13th May '16 5:44:06 PM lordlundar
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*** This is more a case of trying to bypass mechanics. The waves contained the same groups of enemies and if they are dealt with in a particular order and utilizing crowd control was largely simple as the more damaging an enemy had the less health they had. Most players were coming into the new dungeons with an idea that mechanics could be ignored in favor of AoE spam leading to the above "strategy". The problem is that this brought everything on the entire group at once making survival a much more difficult proposition. It's a case of doing the section the intended way is much simpler and faster than trying to ignore the intended method.
12th Jan '16 5:27:15 PM nombretomado
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* ''{{Runescape}}'' possesses one of these in the form of the quest "Ratcatchers", namely around half-way in the quest where you must do a forced stealth mission in order to kill some rats with your cat. However, this part of the quest suffers from heavily bugged AI. Meaning guards will often spot you behind walls, when they're not facing you and often walking out of their patrol routes into places where they are completely unavoidable. Thankfully, a fix has made this quest less frustrating, but god help you if you're doing this quest with only a kitten, as you wills spend hours watching your chatbox filling up with "Your kitten fails to catch the rat".

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* ''{{Runescape}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}'' possesses one of these in the form of the quest "Ratcatchers", namely around half-way in the quest where you must do a forced stealth mission in order to kill some rats with your cat. However, this part of the quest suffers from heavily bugged AI. Meaning guards will often spot you behind walls, when they're not facing you and often walking out of their patrol routes into places where they are completely unavoidable. Thankfully, a fix has made this quest less frustrating, but god help you if you're doing this quest with only a kitten, as you wills spend hours watching your chatbox filling up with "Your kitten fails to catch the rat".
9th Dec '15 2:03:32 AM jormis29
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* Similar to the Jita example above, in old-school ''AsheronsCall'' ''everybody'' hated the town of Arwic. It was just a hop, skip, and jump from the Abandoned Mine, a dungeon called the "subway" since it had portals that could take you to key locations all over the gameworld. This meant that it was always crowded, laggy, full of inane chatter, and subject to portal storms. It got so bad that eventually the developers had the game's first BigBad KickTheDog by ''blowing it off the map'' with the magical equivalent of a tactical nuke. It was rebuilt a few months later as a collection of shopkeepers and basic amenities scattered around the edge of the crater, which alleviated the overcrowding immensely.

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* Similar to the Jita example above, in old-school ''AsheronsCall'' ''VideoGame/AsheronsCall'' ''everybody'' hated the town of Arwic. It was just a hop, skip, and jump from the Abandoned Mine, a dungeon called the "subway" since it had portals that could take you to key locations all over the gameworld. This meant that it was always crowded, laggy, full of inane chatter, and subject to portal storms. It got so bad that eventually the developers had the game's first BigBad KickTheDog by ''blowing it off the map'' with the magical equivalent of a tactical nuke. It was rebuilt a few months later as a collection of shopkeepers and basic amenities scattered around the edge of the crater, which alleviated the overcrowding immensely.
4th Dec '15 6:42:37 PM jormis29
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* Corpus missions in ''{{Warframe}}''. Hundreds of security cameras that can detect you from ''the other side of the room'' and activate absurdly powerful turrents, as well as laser doors that deal incredibly high damage and bars you from exiting the room until the camera is destroyed. God help you if a [[TimedMission Capture]] or [[EscortMission Rescue]] takes place on a Corpus map.
* ''{{Wizard101}}'' has an ''entire world'' of That One Level: Azteca (at least pre-2013 nerf). Leading up to it were two easy worlds (Wizard City and Krokotopia), three moderate worlds (Marleybone, MooShu and Dragonspyre [this last one was actually kinda hard before the 2010 nerf], plus an additionl side world [Grizzleheim] that started as level 20 but the areas escalated in level), then a difficulty spike with Celestia, introducing the second arc (also later nerfed, though not to the extent of Dragonspyre, sorta like the Azteca nerf) which slightly changed the way enemies fought (health was now much more dependant on school, hardly any enemies used off-school spells [meaning no more annoying Weakness spam], now they'd use irregular spells [not taught by the teacher in quests or otherwise], they'd start with much more than just one pip [this amount was later nerfed since they sorta went in all-guns-blazing] and would now have a new weakness [in the form of Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors] in addition to their antithesis [Ice-Fire, Life-Death, Storm-Myth, Balance with none, but being weak to Life, Death and Myth], these being Life-Storm-Fire and so forth for the schools in the Sun triangle and Ice-Death-Myth for the schools in the Moon triangle [ie. before, Fire enemies would only be weak to Ice and vice versa but Celestia+ Fire enemies would be weak to Ice and Storm and Ice enemies to Fire and Myth], while in turn reducing the percentage of the boost), which was kept for Zafaria, then Avalon kept it mostly the same but started using a health system more akin to WC-DS (health being more dependant on rank that class, thus making Storm enemies more difficult), then Azteca introduced bosses that had mastery over two schools (but only having the weaknesses of one) and it's been suspected that they also started having better stats other than HP. Azteca was pretty hard and grindy, with the high amount of health enemies had, plus being kinda boring and being released at a point where players were going through a nostalgia kick with the first arc and classic PvP.

to:

* Corpus missions in ''{{Warframe}}''.''VideoGame/{{Warframe}}''. Hundreds of security cameras that can detect you from ''the other side of the room'' and activate absurdly powerful turrents, as well as laser doors that deal incredibly high damage and bars you from exiting the room until the camera is destroyed. God help you if a [[TimedMission Capture]] or [[EscortMission Rescue]] takes place on a Corpus map.
* ''{{Wizard101}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Wizard 101}}'' has an ''entire world'' of That One Level: Azteca (at least pre-2013 nerf). Leading up to it were two easy worlds (Wizard City and Krokotopia), three moderate worlds (Marleybone, MooShu and Dragonspyre [this last one was actually kinda hard before the 2010 nerf], plus an additionl side world [Grizzleheim] that started as level 20 but the areas escalated in level), then a difficulty spike with Celestia, introducing the second arc (also later nerfed, though not to the extent of Dragonspyre, sorta like the Azteca nerf) which slightly changed the way enemies fought (health was now much more dependant on school, hardly any enemies used off-school spells [meaning no more annoying Weakness spam], now they'd use irregular spells [not taught by the teacher in quests or otherwise], they'd start with much more than just one pip [this amount was later nerfed since they sorta went in all-guns-blazing] and would now have a new weakness [in the form of Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors] in addition to their antithesis [Ice-Fire, Life-Death, Storm-Myth, Balance with none, but being weak to Life, Death and Myth], these being Life-Storm-Fire and so forth for the schools in the Sun triangle and Ice-Death-Myth for the schools in the Moon triangle [ie. before, Fire enemies would only be weak to Ice and vice versa but Celestia+ Fire enemies would be weak to Ice and Storm and Ice enemies to Fire and Myth], while in turn reducing the percentage of the boost), which was kept for Zafaria, then Avalon kept it mostly the same but started using a health system more akin to WC-DS (health being more dependant on rank that class, thus making Storm enemies more difficult), then Azteca introduced bosses that had mastery over two schools (but only having the weaknesses of one) and it's been suspected that they also started having better stats other than HP. Azteca was pretty hard and grindy, with the high amount of health enemies had, plus being kinda boring and being released at a point where players were going through a nostalgia kick with the first arc and classic PvP.



* ''{{Pirate101}}'' has the first quests from Book 8 which serve as introduction to Port Regal Skyway, which involve defeating an absurd amount of ships that are quite hard (or take a long time if you board/let them board you and take out the crew) to sink solo, especially with the slightly outdated ship you have at this point (because the next ship available is ''inside'' Port Regal Skyway, unless you have someone teleport you into Port Regal to buy it or did a lot of side quests and grinded ship EXP and have someone to teleport you into Tumbleweed to buy the Bison Galleon [next ship after Marleybone Skiff], which makes these quests much easier). There used to be a glitch where you could access Tumbleweed Skyway [and thus Tumbleweed] from the entrance to it on Big Sky but it has since been patched). Then around five quests later you get to find ten ''more'' ships to sink. Then next quest you get ''TEN FREAKING MORE SHIPS TO SINK!'' At least after that you get to one of the coolest dungeons in the game (which is a little long but still very fun and furthers the plot).

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* ''{{Pirate101}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Pirate 101}}'' has the first quests from Book 8 which serve as introduction to Port Regal Skyway, which involve defeating an absurd amount of ships that are quite hard (or take a long time if you board/let them board you and take out the crew) to sink solo, especially with the slightly outdated ship you have at this point (because the next ship available is ''inside'' Port Regal Skyway, unless you have someone teleport you into Port Regal to buy it or did a lot of side quests and grinded ship EXP and have someone to teleport you into Tumbleweed to buy the Bison Galleon [next ship after Marleybone Skiff], which makes these quests much easier). There used to be a glitch where you could access Tumbleweed Skyway [and thus Tumbleweed] from the entrance to it on Big Sky but it has since been patched). Then around five quests later you get to find ten ''more'' ships to sink. Then next quest you get ''TEN FREAKING MORE SHIPS TO SINK!'' At least after that you get to one of the coolest dungeons in the game (which is a little long but still very fun and furthers the plot).



** Like in Wizard101, there's a postgame tower that's considerably hard and requires a good team to fight with you if you don't wanna spend four hours in this damn tower (at least most of the time on Wizard101's postgame towers you can get by if the others just know how to avoid the cheats/work around them, and don't necessarily have to play very well so long as any one person can carry the team). Add in the fact that there's a badge with a really cool effect for going rogue on the before-before last fight and only one player can go rogue, which means a lot of players only do this tower for the badge and ragequit if someone beats them to the punch on said fight. Not to mention that there's so much good gear up for grabs in this tower that it almost demands you run it a lot of times (plus there's a badge for completing it ''25 times'').

to:

** Like in Wizard101, Wizard 101, there's a postgame tower that's considerably hard and requires a good team to fight with you if you don't wanna spend four hours in this damn tower (at least most of the time on Wizard101's postgame towers you can get by if the others just know how to avoid the cheats/work around them, and don't necessarily have to play very well so long as any one person can carry the team). Add in the fact that there's a badge with a really cool effect for going rogue on the before-before last fight and only one player can go rogue, which means a lot of players only do this tower for the badge and ragequit if someone beats them to the punch on said fight. Not to mention that there's so much good gear up for grabs in this tower that it almost demands you run it a lot of times (plus there's a badge for completing it ''25 times'').
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