History SeinfeldIsUnfunny / Music

25th May '16 8:13:53 PM HypnoticMeerkat
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* MarilynManson, like Alice Cooper before him, doesn't seem quite as shocking nowadays, with fifty thousand bands from so many different genres trying to be him. At the time, though, the idea of a mostly naked man wearing makeup, a male bassist in kinderwhore getup and a stage show that incorporated everything from the bassist sucking his dick or the guitarist giving him a rimjob to Bibles being ripped up and thrown into the crowd was absolutely horrifying to the religious right. Metal that really was straight-up supported by Anton [=LaVey=], a frontman who was a reverend in the Church of Satan, drugs, sex and androgyny were all shocking to people. Luckily, there was also a terrifyingly complex foundation it was built on, with lyrics and albums [[http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Grotesque that have prompted more writing than one could imagine]]. Coupled with some inspiration from David Bowie to change sound from album to album (although leading to plenty of fandom infighting), the band is still going strong and the latest album, ''The Pale Emperor'' is a huge hit.

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* MarilynManson, Music/MarilynManson, like Alice Cooper before him, doesn't seem quite as shocking nowadays, with fifty thousand bands from so many different genres trying to be him. At the time, though, the idea of a mostly naked man wearing makeup, a male bassist in kinderwhore getup and a stage show that incorporated everything from the bassist sucking his dick or the guitarist giving him a rimjob to Bibles being ripped up and thrown into the crowd was absolutely horrifying to the religious right. Metal that really was straight-up supported by Anton [=LaVey=], a frontman who was a reverend in the Church of Satan, drugs, sex and androgyny were all shocking to people. Luckily, there was also a terrifyingly complex foundation it was built on, with lyrics and albums [[http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Grotesque that have prompted more writing than one could imagine]]. Coupled with some inspiration from David Bowie to change sound from album to album (although leading to plenty of fandom infighting), the band is still going strong and the latest album, ''The Pale Emperor'' is a huge hit.
14th May '16 4:11:43 PM hamza678
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** It may seem ''primitive'' compared to the modern stuff, but that's [[http://youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ not always a bad thing]].
*** Actually only their early work sound quite primitive. Almost anything since ''Music/{{Autobahn}}'' (released in 1974) still sounds fresh. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tm-yTYZu4 Especially the live versions from ''Minimum-Maxiumum'']] seem really modern.
* Dance music. Most of it falls victim to this eventually. Not so long ago nobody had heard of acid house, rave, big beat, gabba, trip-hop, drum'n'bass, jungle... Anything that's new is so easily taken up and copied by imitators that it soon sounds totally conventional and often technologically primitive. (Think of MARRS "Pump Up the Volume", "Out of Space" by the Prodigy, or anything by Fatboy Slim for example).
** Very few people nowadays might hear Suicide or Silver Apples, the two bands that arguably spawned electronic music, and guess that their origins are pre-disco.

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** It may seem ''primitive'' compared to the modern stuff, but that's [[http://youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ not always a bad thing]].
*** Actually only their early work sound quite primitive. Almost anything since ''Music/{{Autobahn}}'' (released in 1974) still sounds fresh. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tm-yTYZu4 Especially the live versions from ''Minimum-Maxiumum'']] seem really modern.

* Dance music. Most of it falls victim to this eventually. Not so long ago nobody had heard of acid house, rave, big beat, gabba, trip-hop, drum'n'bass, jungle... Anything that's new is so easily taken up and copied by imitators that it soon sounds totally conventional and often technologically primitive. (Think of MARRS "Pump Up the Volume", "Out of Space" by the Prodigy, or anything by Fatboy Slim for example).
**
example). Very few people nowadays might hear Suicide or Silver Apples, the two bands that arguably spawned electronic music, and guess that their origins are pre-disco.
13th May '16 10:34:29 AM MeAndMyNerdyBat
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* Speaking of southern hip-hop, Music/OutKast pretty much [[TropeMaker invented]] the sound that is still prevalent in hip-hop scene of the South today (heavily eschewing the electro-based party elements of then-popular Miami Bass in favor of far more substantial funk, soul, and gospel-based compositions), with ''Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik'', ''[=ATLiens=]'' and ''Aquemini'' often being considered some of the best and most important albums of rap's second decade. Nowadays, this funk/soul/gospel-based sound is so overused in mainstream hip-hop and pop music that many younger listeners may have some difficulty seeing how revolutionary the band was at the time.
8th May '16 11:07:45 PM DavidDelony
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* ''Stereo sound''. Up until the mid-to-late [[TheSixties 1960s]], AM radio was the go-to format for listening to popular music, FM was strictly for news, information and [[MnogoNukes well, to find out what to do should the nukes drop]], and hi-fi stereo sound was the province of the wealthy. Stereo records ''were'' manufactured, and pop songs mixed to stereo, but monaural (mono) sound was the default format of morst systems. Bands like Music/TheBeatles and Music/TheBeachBoys in fact were only involved in the mono mixes of their records, and pop songs were mixed and mastered mainly to sound good on cheap single-speaker transistor radios or car radios. The rise of underground rock and jazz radio, "[[WatchItStoned head music]]" and music labels determined to demonstrate their [[TechnologyMarchesOn new multi-track and stereo technology]] led to the popularity of stereo recordings (and headphones), and mono eventually was phased out.

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* ''Stereo sound''. Up until the mid-to-late [[TheSixties 1960s]], AM radio was the go-to format for listening to popular music, FM was strictly for news, information and [[MnogoNukes well, to find out what to do should the nukes drop]], and hi-fi stereo sound was the province of the wealthy. Stereo records ''were'' manufactured, and pop songs mixed to stereo, but monaural (mono) sound was the default format of morst most systems. Bands like Music/TheBeatles and Music/TheBeachBoys in fact were only involved in the mono mixes of their records, and pop songs were mixed and mastered mainly to sound good on cheap single-speaker transistor radios or car radios. The rise of underground rock and jazz radio, "[[WatchItStoned head music]]" and music labels determined to demonstrate their [[TechnologyMarchesOn new multi-track and stereo technology]] led to the popularity of stereo recordings (and headphones), and mono eventually was phased out.
2nd May '16 10:57:14 AM WhatArtThee
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* Sixties music in general is a real mixed bag. It's so often spoken of as ''the'' decade of rebellious music, shifting the focus of pop music permanently to hard rock and scandalizing parents who had been able to at least tolerate '50s rock, but were thoroughly repulsed by the hippie stuff. Truth be told, though, the transformative power of that decade's music has been somewhat exaggerated. So many '60s rock bands now sound positively quaint, especially compared to similarly paradigm-shifting bands of the '70s and '80s. Music/BuffaloSpringfield and Music/CreedenceClearwaterRevival are now practically [[GoodOldBoy "good-old-boy"]] music, and it's hard to appreciate how iconoclastic "country-rock" was considered at the time; even Ricky Nelson was abandoned by many of his fans when he started playing country-style. Music/JeffersonAirplane, meanwhile, no longer sounds quite so out there: songs like "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love", ostensibly considered the epitome of "psychedelic" music, sound like nothing more than really weird, distorted rockabilly. There are some exceptions: Music/TheDoors will always sound groundbreaking and (to a certain extent) timeless. And paradoxically, many of the '60s bands that hold up today are not the ones that rock critics and music historians always crow about, but some of the forgettable or near-forgettable "pop" bands of the era, Music/StrawberryAlarmClock and Music/TheElectricPrunes being two good examples. Not only were they emphasizing distorted guitars and synthesizers long before it was cool, but their surreal riffs and licks are echoed in the eerie "prog-metal" of hard-rock bands like Music/{{Tool}}.

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* Sixties music in general is a real mixed bag. It's so often spoken of as ''the'' decade of rebellious music, shifting the focus of pop music permanently to hard rock and scandalizing parents who had been able to at least tolerate '50s rock, but were thoroughly repulsed by the hippie stuff. Truth be told, though, the transformative power of that decade's music has been somewhat exaggerated. So many '60s rock bands now sound positively quaint, especially compared to similarly paradigm-shifting bands of the '70s and '80s. Music/BuffaloSpringfield and Music/CreedenceClearwaterRevival are now practically [[GoodOldBoy "good-old-boy"]] music, and it's hard to appreciate how iconoclastic "country-rock" was considered at the time; even Ricky Nelson was abandoned by many of his fans when he started playing country-style. Music/JeffersonAirplane, meanwhile, no longer sounds quite so out there: songs like "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love", ostensibly considered the epitome of "psychedelic" music, sound like nothing more than really weird, distorted rockabilly. There are some exceptions: Music/TheDoors will always sound groundbreaking and (to a certain extent) timeless. And paradoxically, many of the '60s bands that hold up today are not the ones that rock critics and music historians always crow about, but some of the forgettable or near-forgettable "pop" bands of the era, Music/StrawberryAlarmClock and Music/TheElectricPrunes being two good examples. Not only were they emphasizing distorted guitars and synthesizers long before it was cool, but their surreal riffs and licks are echoed in the eerie "prog-metal" of hard-rock bands like Music/{{Tool}}.
18th Apr '16 11:15:31 PM aye_amber
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[[AC:General stuff]]
* [[RockersSmashGuitars Breaking guitars (or any other instrument).]] In the 1960's, breaking your instruments on stage was seen as the epitome of badassness, rebellion and edginess. Today, breaking guitars is so overdone it's a rock n roll cliche, not to mention very expensive and a great way to piss off your endorsers.
** There is an exception for Music/YoshikiHayashi and his drum breaks, both because his actions actually weren't cliche in Japan when he first started doing it, and because he managed to successfully invoke the RuleOfCool enough that it's actually a part of his show.

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[[AC:General stuff]]
[[AC: General Stuff]]

* [[RockersSmashGuitars Breaking guitars (or any other instrument).]] In the 1960's, breaking your instruments on stage was seen as the epitome of badassness, rebellion rebellion, and edginess. Today, breaking guitars is so overdone it's a rock n roll cliche, not to mention very expensive and a great way to piss off your endorsers.
** There is an exception for Music/YoshikiHayashi and his drum breaks, both because his actions actually weren't cliche in Japan UsefulNotes/{{Japan}} when he first started doing it, and because he managed to successfully invoke the RuleOfCool enough that it's actually a part of his show.



** Part of the problem is that Hawkins's most famous song, "I Put a Spell on You," has been covered (and sanitized) so many times, most famously by the Alan Price Set and most notoriously by Music/BetteMidler for the movie ''Film/HocusPocus''. You need to go back and hear Hawkins's original: radically minimalist, and with [[HellIsThatNoise random screams and growls that are guaranteed to terrify anyone under the age of seven]].

[[AC:Classical Music]]
* Music/LudwigVanBeethoven. ''The Mark Steel Lectures'' profile of Beethoven focused on this effect since his work is so old that it can't help but be merely another part of the classical repertoire. Beethoven was one of the first composers to write autobiographical tunes, one of the first to be independent of royal patronage, was unprecedentedly ''loud'', and in behavior was the spiritual ancestor of the moody modern rock star. Mark imagined the same thing happening to today's pop music: (In an affected very posh BBC Radio 3 accent) "It's fascinating to note how the composer Mr Fifty Cent, blends the pianoforte with lyrics as they begin: 'I'm a cop killa, gonna shoot you up the ass'". And also notes how quickly the effect takes hold. Even now the kids can't really understand what was so different about punk rockers saying they were pretty 'vacant'.\\

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** Part of the problem is that Hawkins's most famous song, song: "I Put a Spell on You," has been covered (and sanitized) so many times, most famously by the ''The Alan Price Set Set'' and most notoriously by Music/BetteMidler for the movie ''Film/HocusPocus''. ''Film/HocusPocus.'' You need to go back and hear Hawkins's original: radically Radically minimalist, and with [[HellIsThatNoise random screams and growls that are guaranteed to terrify anyone under the age of seven]].

[[AC:Classical Music]]
seven.]]

[[AC: Classical Music]]

* Music/LudwigVanBeethoven. Music/LudwigVanBeethoven: ''The Mark Steel Lectures'' profile of Beethoven focused on this effect since his work is so old that it can't help but be merely another part of the classical repertoire. Beethoven was one of the first composers to write autobiographical tunes, one of the first to be independent of royal patronage, was unprecedentedly ''loud'', ''loud,'' and in behavior was the spiritual ancestor of the moody modern rock star. Mark imagined the same thing happening to today's pop music: (In an affected very posh BBC Radio 3 accent) "It's fascinating to note how the composer Mr Fifty Cent, Mr. Music/FiftyCent, blends the pianoforte with lyrics as they begin: 'I'm "I'm a cop killa, gonna shoot you up the ass'". ass." And also notes how quickly the effect takes hold. Even now the kids can't really understand what was so different about punk rockers saying they were pretty 'vacant'.\\



** Music/JudasPriest can get this themselves. Their music can sound like a ClicheStorm these days, but one has to consider that they themselves ''[[TropeMaker invented]]'' nearly all of those clichés. It's not their fault their music has been so widely imitated since then (or maybe it is, for being so good).
* Music/{{Helmet}} virtually invented the start-stop metal riff that dominated the late 90's. You'd never know it to hear their successors (e.g. Music/KoRn, {{Deftones}}, etc.) but the idea came from jazz.

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** Music/JudasPriest can get this themselves. Their music can sound like a ClicheStorm these days, but one has to consider that they themselves ''[[TropeMaker ''[[TropeMakers invented]]'' nearly all of those clichés. It's not their fault their music has been so widely imitated since then (or maybe it is, for being so good).
* Music/{{Helmet}} virtually invented the start-stop metal riff that dominated the late 90's. You'd never know it to hear their successors (e.g. Music/KoRn, {{Deftones}}, Music/{{Korn}}, Music/{{Deftones}}, etc.) but the idea came from jazz.
10th Mar '16 3:40:01 PM TokyoByNight
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* T.I. suffers from this today. Hailing from UsefulNotes/{{Altanta}} and representing the south at a time when any rapper that wasn't from the east coast or west coast was considered a novelty, he pioneered southern hip-hop in the mainstream. He was literally declared "King of the South"! Naturally, with the southern hip-hop explosion that happened in the mid-'00s, it's become ''very'' difficult for people to see what the big deal was about him today due to the countless amount of rappers from his area.

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* T.I.Music/{{TI}}. suffers from this today. Hailing from UsefulNotes/{{Altanta}} and representing the south at a time when any rapper that wasn't from the east coast or west coast was considered a novelty, he pioneered southern hip-hop in the mainstream. He was literally declared "King of the South"! Naturally, with the southern hip-hop explosion that happened in the mid-'00s, it's become ''very'' difficult for people to see what the big deal was about him today due to the countless amount of rappers from his area.
7th Mar '16 10:17:04 AM TokyoByNight
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* The Music/{{Sepultura}} album ''Roots''. Upon release, it was one of the most critically-acclaimed and commercially successful metal albums of the mid-90's. However, the legions of nu-metal bands that copied its sound (the album was, in fact, arguably the first true nu "metal" album - Korn's s/t being more of a rap/hardcore album with hints of metal) have led this album to gradually become far less acclaimed and celebrated as the years went by.

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* The Music/{{Sepultura}} album ''Roots''. Upon release, it was one of the most critically-acclaimed and commercially successful metal albums of the mid-90's. However, the legions of nu-metal bands that copied its sound (the album was, in fact, arguably the first true nu "metal" album - Korn's s/t being more of a rap/hardcore album with hints of metal) have led this album to gradually become far less acclaimed and celebrated as the years went by.




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* Music/{{Korn}} suffers pretty heavily from this. Their debut SelfTitledAlbum ''Music/KornAlbum'' was considered ''original'' at the time of its 1994 release. It was an earnest, raw, and commercial unfriendly take on AlternativeMetal. Being a mix of alt metal, grunge, groove metal, funk metal, prog metal, and hip-hop, there was nothing like it before at the time. However, when it became a [[SleeperHit sleeper success]], it spawned one of the most controversial genres in metal: NuMetal. The countless nu metal bands (and even alt metal bands that weren't part of the genre) that were influenced by them and saturated the market led to them not seeming all that original to someone who hears their music later. In fact, many metal purists will deny how massively influential they were, or if they did, they would say was a negative influence. This is despite the fact that they were more-or-less responsible for salvaging heavy metal music out of underground purgatory.
29th Feb '16 10:41:38 PM aristos_achaion
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Added DiffLines:

** When opera was first emerging in the early 17th century, at the beginning of the Baroque period, recitative was revolutionary for being able translate human speech (and human emotion) naturally into music. By the end of the Baroque period, recitative was mainly used to quickly cover large blocks of dialogue between arias. Operas like Monteverdi's ''L'Orfeo'' can sound odd to the modern ear because they're from the brief period before recitative became so common it was relegated to getting the boring stuff out of the way.
23rd Feb '16 5:03:46 AM erforce
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* "Black Diamond" by Music/{{Kiss}} sounds like really primitive HairMetal, but it wasn't so primitive in 1974. It was unprecedented at the time for a rock song to not only be loud and angry, but to have a "symphonic" sound evocative of opera or classical music. It could be argued that AliceCooper pioneered this sound first, but he was never quite able to equal the Olympian grandeur of Kiss.

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* "Black Diamond" by Music/{{Kiss}} sounds like really primitive HairMetal, but it wasn't so primitive in 1974. It was unprecedented at the time for a rock song to not only be loud and angry, but to have a "symphonic" sound evocative of opera or classical music. It could be argued that AliceCooper Music/AliceCooper pioneered this sound first, but he was never quite able to equal the Olympian grandeur of Kiss.
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