History SeinfeldIsUnfunny / LiveActionTV

30th Dec '16 10:29:02 PM Spyspotter
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* ''Series/HellsKitchen''. Originally, one of the greatest appeals of the show was that the main chef, Gordon Ramsay, was unafraid to yell at the contestants for screwing up, as opposed to the insufferably nice chefs that were common in the genre. Now, thanks to the popularity of the show, such rough chefs are now considered the default in the genre, and as a result, it can be difficult for a new viewer to see what once made the show unique.
7th Dec '16 5:02:21 PM Furienna
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** It gave CharacterDevelopment and character-driven drama unheard-of levels of focus for a science-fiction TV series. While there obviously was some of this in past series (e.g. in the two previous ''Star Trek'' iterations), none quite put as much focus as ''B5'' until ''[=DS9=]''--which ran concurrently and was its friendly rival for the same audience.

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** It gave CharacterDevelopment and character-driven drama unheard-of levels of focus for a science-fiction TV series. While there obviously was some of this in past series (e.g. in the two previous ''Star Trek'' iterations), none quite put as much focus as ''B5'' until ''[=DS9=]''--which ''[=DS9=]'' - which ran concurrently and was its friendly rival for the same audience.



*** The main issue for ''B5''[='=]s pioneering CGI was that it was early CGI. When compared screen-for-screen with the pure-CGI that turned up later in ''DS9'' and ''Voyager'', ''B5''[='=]s CGI [[ConspicuousCG looks poor]] (and even looked poor at the time, especially in any sequences involving human-scale interactions). This is the primary reason CGI was disregarded -- it needed to come up in quality or the difference from miniature-led effects would've been far too jarring. ''B5'' was a pioneer, but came a little too early for its CGI imagery to be really anything impressive.
* ''Series/{{Becker}}'' was about a cantankerous doctor... no, not that one... not that one, either. The character--and show--were eclipsed first by John C. [=McGinley=] as Perry Cox in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', then by Hugh Laurie as Gregory ''Series/{{House}}''. It's easy to forget that ''Becker'' had a respectable life span of six seasons and was one of the better sitcoms in a lean period after ''Seinfeld'' but before ''Series/ArrestedDevelopment'', either version of ''Series/TheOffice'', ''Series/ThirtyRock'' or ''Series/{{Community}}''.

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*** The main issue for ''B5''[='=]s pioneering CGI was that it was early CGI. When compared screen-for-screen with the pure-CGI that turned up later in ''DS9'' and ''Voyager'', ''B5''[='=]s CGI [[ConspicuousCG looks poor]] (and even looked poor at the time, especially in any sequences involving human-scale interactions). This is the primary reason CGI was disregarded -- - it needed to come up in quality or the difference from miniature-led effects would've been far too jarring. ''B5'' was a pioneer, but came a little too early for its CGI imagery to be really anything impressive.
* ''Series/{{Becker}}'' was about a cantankerous doctor... no, not that one... not that one, either. The character--and show--were character - and show - were eclipsed first by John C. [=McGinley=] as Perry Cox in ''Series/{{Scrubs}}'', then by Hugh Laurie as Gregory ''Series/{{House}}''. It's easy to forget that ''Becker'' had a respectable life span of six seasons and was one of the better sitcoms in a lean period after ''Seinfeld'' but before ''Series/ArrestedDevelopment'', either version of ''Series/TheOffice'', ''Series/ThirtyRock'' or ''Series/{{Community}}''.



* Creator/DavidLetterman. His whole comedic sensibility (Middle American pop-culture-obsessed smartass, with a dash of intellectualism) was incredibly fresh and innovative in the early '80s, and exactly the kick in the pants that the stale TV talk show format needed. These days it's hard to find a talk show '''not''' heavily influenced by Letterman (even his short-lived 1980 morning show has [{{Spiritual Adaptation}}s like ''Ellen''), so people really take him for granted now.

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* Creator/DavidLetterman. His whole comedic sensibility (Middle American pop-culture-obsessed smartass, with a dash of intellectualism) was incredibly fresh and innovative in the early '80s, and exactly the kick in the pants that the stale TV talk show format needed. These days it's hard to find a talk show '''not''' heavily influenced by Letterman (even his short-lived 1980 morning show has [{{Spiritual {{Spiritual Adaptation}}s like ''Ellen''), so people really take him for granted now.



** The Season 2 finale, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E9TheTimeMeddler The Time Meddler]]", was a WhamEpisode at the time because it was the first story pitting the Doctor against another alien force in a historical period -- up until then, historical stories and science fiction stories had been entirely discrete, so TheReveal that the Monk is another time traveller was a huge twist that broke the established rules of the show. Of course, the 'historical' (a story taking place in a historical period with no sci-fi beyond that of the time travel itself) is a format all but abandoned after the Creator/WilliamHartnell era, so modern viewers checking out his stories often find it more surprising when the Doctor goes into the past and aliens ''don't'' show up.
** It's quite difficult for viewers whose only knowledge of ''Doctor Who'' comes from the revival series to understand why it was such a [[DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER massive source of fandom rage]] when the Doctor had TheBigDamnKiss with his companion in [[Recap/DoctorWhoTVMTheTVMovie The TV Movie]]. Ever since the revival series, the show has been very romance-focused, and fans who grew up without the old series' NoHuggingNoKissing have real trouble imagining the show without sexuality. In fact, those fans may look at the romance between the Eighth Doctor and Grace as very subtle and low-key in comparison to what the show gets away with now, since it's transitory and based around heat-of-the-moment feelings -- compare to the character-arc-dominating romance between the Tenth Doctor and [[OneTrueLove Rose]], or how the Eleventh Doctor not only has a lot of offscreen sex with various female characters and leers over other ones but even gets ''married''...

to:

** The Season 2 finale, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E9TheTimeMeddler The Time Meddler]]", was a WhamEpisode at the time because it was the first story pitting the Doctor against another alien force in a historical period -- - up until then, historical stories and science fiction stories had been entirely discrete, so TheReveal that the Monk is another time traveller was a huge twist that broke the established rules of the show. Of course, the 'historical' (a story taking place in a historical period with no sci-fi beyond that of the time travel itself) is a format all but abandoned after the Creator/WilliamHartnell era, so modern viewers checking out his stories often find it more surprising when the Doctor goes into the past and aliens ''don't'' show up.
** It's quite difficult for viewers whose only knowledge of ''Doctor Who'' comes from the revival series to understand why it was such a [[DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER massive source of fandom rage]] when the Doctor had TheBigDamnKiss with his companion in [[Recap/DoctorWhoTVMTheTVMovie The TV Movie]]. Ever since the revival series, the show has been very romance-focused, and fans who grew up without the old series' NoHuggingNoKissing have real trouble imagining the show without sexuality. In fact, those fans may look at the romance between the Eighth Doctor and Grace as very subtle and low-key in comparison to what the show gets away with now, since it's transitory and based around heat-of-the-moment feelings -- - compare to the character-arc-dominating romance between the Tenth Doctor and [[OneTrueLove Rose]], or how the Eleventh Doctor not only has a lot of offscreen sex with various female characters and leers over other ones but even gets ''married''...



* ''Series/EverybodyLovesRaymond'', when it first premiered in the Fall of 1996, stood out among other family sitcoms in that its focus was more on the parents than on the children. In fact, the children were, in many episodes, just [[LivingProp Living Props]] (even the intro points this out, with Raymond assuring the audience "It's not about the kids"). Given that many family sitcoms thereafter have focused more on the parents than on the children, the series doesn't seem quite as unique now as it used to (being that, aside from this one crucial difference, it was actually a pretty run-of-the-mill sitcom for the most part). Another groundbreaking aspect was introducing the [[UglyGuyHotWife "fat guy with a gorgeous wife"]] scenario (until then only present on NewspaperComics and [[WesternAnimation cartoon shows]]) which quickly replaced the ModelCouple paradigm prevalent until then.

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* ''Series/EverybodyLovesRaymond'', when it first premiered in the Fall of 1996, stood out among other family sitcoms in that its focus was more on the parents than on the children. In fact, the children were, in many episodes, just [[LivingProp Living Props]] (even the intro points this out, with Raymond assuring the audience "It's not about the kids"). Given that many family sitcoms thereafter have focused more on the parents than on the children, the series doesn't seem quite as unique now as it used to (being that, aside from this one crucial difference, it was actually a pretty run-of-the-mill sitcom for the most part). Another groundbreaking aspect was introducing the [[UglyGuyHotWife "fat guy with a gorgeous wife"]] UglyGuyHotWife scenario (until then only present on NewspaperComics and [[WesternAnimation cartoon shows]]) which quickly replaced the ModelCouple paradigm prevalent until then.



** We find out in the pilot that Ross' ex-wife Carol is a lesbian. Their son Ben is raised mostly by Carol and her partner Susan. In the second season, Carol and Susan get married. At the time, 1996, same-sex marriage was illegal in every state,[[note]]Technically, it was legal in Hawaii under a court order, but the order was stayed. It was not immediately clear in 1996 that same-sex marriage would be illegal for very long, at least not in Hawaii... which, when it comes to places to get married, is a darn good one. Same-sex marriage would be banned in Hawaii in 1998 when voters passed a referendum amending the state constitution allowing the state legislature to limit marriage to heterosexual couples, which the legislature promptly did; marriage equality would not return to Hawaii until 2013, when the legislature repealed the law it had passed in 1998 and officially allowed same-sex marriages for the first time.[[/note]] and no ''country'' in the world yet had full marriage for same-sex couples (the first was the Netherlands in 2001), yet there were no references to this in the show. No characters, aside from Carol's unseen parents, object to the wedding save for Ross -- and he's only upset because he still loves Carol. (In a sweet moment, he ends up walking her down the aisle.) A few network affiliates refused to air the episode, but it was the highest-rated program that week. Today, same-sex weddings and couples raising children are becoming increasingly commonplace on TV, for example in ''Modern Family''.

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** We find out in the pilot that Ross' ex-wife Carol is a lesbian. Their son Ben is raised mostly by Carol and her partner Susan. In the second season, Carol and Susan get married. At the time, 1996, same-sex marriage was illegal in every state,[[note]]Technically, it was legal in Hawaii under a court order, but the order was stayed. It was not immediately clear in 1996 that same-sex marriage would be illegal for very long, at least not in Hawaii... which, when it comes to places to get married, is a darn good one. Same-sex marriage would be banned in Hawaii in 1998 when voters passed a referendum amending the state constitution allowing the state legislature to limit marriage to heterosexual couples, which the legislature promptly did; marriage equality would not return to Hawaii until 2013, when the legislature repealed the law it had passed in 1998 and officially allowed same-sex marriages for the first time.[[/note]] and no ''country'' in the world yet had full marriage for same-sex couples (the first was the Netherlands in 2001), yet there were no references to this in the show. No characters, aside from Carol's unseen parents, object to the wedding save for Ross -- - and he's only upset because he still loves Carol. (In a sweet moment, he ends up walking her down the aisle.) A few network affiliates refused to air the episode, but it was the highest-rated program that week. Today, same-sex weddings and couples raising children are becoming increasingly commonplace on TV, for example in ''Modern Family''.



* When ''Series/LawAndOrder'' first appeared in 1990, it was unthinkable to have a show so willing to discuss controversial topics such as abortion, racism, corruption, and child abuse. Since then, shows like ''Series/TheWire'' have gone further with the "Crime Drama as a social platform" concept than anyone could have imagined.

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* When ''Series/LawAndOrder'' first appeared in 1990, it was unthinkable to have a show so willing to discuss controversial topics such as abortion, racism, corruption, corruption and child abuse. Since then, shows like ''Series/TheWire'' have gone further with the "Crime Drama as a social platform" concept than anyone could have imagined.



* Same thing has happened to ''Series/RealPeople'', which became a Wednesday night staple on NBC between 1979 and 1984.

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* Same thing has happened to ''Series/RealPeople'', ''RealPeople'', which became a Wednesday night staple on NBC between 1979 and 1984.



* ''Series/SaturdayNightLive''. In its early days, it was considered revolutionary, groundbreaking, and taboo due to its willingness to just say and/or do anything crazy, stupid, and/or controversial and hope the censors don't crack down on them. Through modern eyes, those old episodes can seem terribly dull thanks to ''SNL''[='=]s many dueling shows that try to capture its humor (i.e., ''Series/{{Fridays}}'', ''Series/InLivingColor'', ''Series/{{MADtv}}'', ''Series/MrShow'', etc).
* ''Series/SavedByTheBell'': The show that started the whole "tween" show craze (heck, that word didn't even exist back then). Lizzie, Series/HannahMontana, Series/{{iCarly}}, even Power Rangers -- they all owe their existence to this show.
* ''Series/{{SCTV}}''. Speaking of network TV sketch shows that suffer from Seinfeld Is Unfunny syndrome, when it premiered in Canada (and later, the United States), the sketch comedy show was a critical and commercial hit. By mixing [[DeconstructiveParody deconstructive parodies]] of popular and lesser-known works with [[CanadaEh absurdly specific Canadian-centric humor]], the show won over a lot of fans (it also helped that ''SNL'' had plunged into SeasonalRot in the 1980s, so shows like ''SCTV'' and ''Fridays'' became favorite substitutes for ''SNL''). The show was lauded for having a stellar cast (who would all go on to successful movie and television careers, making it a who's-who of comedy talent, much like ''SNL''), and being a trailblazer for new concepts in sketch comedy (i.e. running gags that spanned the entire episode, long camera shots in sketches, and more absurdist humor than what one would find on ''SNL'' or even ''Monty Python''). Today, many viewers would look at the series and think it's either too quaint or boring (because the nature of the sketches and jokes--which reference late 1970s and early 1980s subculture--fly right over their heads), even though the series essentially created the foundation of modern Canadian comedy shows.

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* ''Series/SaturdayNightLive''. In its early days, it was considered revolutionary, groundbreaking, and taboo due to its willingness to just say and/or do anything crazy, stupid, and/or controversial and hope the censors don't crack down on them. Through modern eyes, those old episodes can seem terribly dull thanks to ''SNL''[='=]s many dueling shows that try to capture its humor (i.e., ''Series/{{Fridays}}'', ''Fridays'', ''Series/InLivingColor'', ''Series/{{MADtv}}'', ''Series/MrShow'', etc).
* ''Series/SavedByTheBell'': The show that started the whole "tween" show craze (heck, that word didn't even exist back then). Lizzie, Series/HannahMontana, Series/{{iCarly}}, even Power Rangers -- - they all owe their existence to this show.
* ''Series/{{SCTV}}''. Speaking of network TV sketch shows that suffer from Seinfeld Is Unfunny syndrome, when it premiered in Canada (and later, the United States), the sketch comedy show was a critical and commercial hit. By mixing [[DeconstructiveParody deconstructive parodies]] of popular and lesser-known works with [[CanadaEh absurdly specific Canadian-centric humor]], the show won over a lot of fans (it also helped that ''SNL'' had plunged into SeasonalRot in the 1980s, so shows like ''SCTV'' and ''Fridays'' became favorite substitutes for ''SNL''). The show was lauded for having a stellar cast (who would all go on to successful movie and television careers, making it a who's-who of comedy talent, much like ''SNL''), and being a trailblazer for new concepts in sketch comedy (i.e. running gags that spanned the entire episode, long camera shots in sketches, and more absurdist humor than what one would find on ''SNL'' or even ''Monty Python''). Today, many viewers would look at the series and think it's either too quaint or boring (because the nature of the sketches and jokes--which jokes - which reference late 1970s and early 1980s subculture--fly subculture - fly right over their heads), even though the series essentially created the foundation of modern Canadian comedy shows.



** Jerri Manthey references this phenomenon in the ''Heroes Vs Villains'' season. When Jerri first appeared in the ''Australia'' season, American viewers '''hated''' her -- she schemed against other players, and was the first certifiable "villain" of the show (so much so that when she appeared on that season's reunion show, she was booed off the stage). In the following seasons, other players would up the stakes in terms of villainy, culminating in Corrine Kaplan's run in ''Gabon''[[note]]She openly dissed another contestant's dead father, and refused to apologize during the reunion show, crossing the MoralEventHorizon beyond a point that ''any'' contestant can cross.[[/note]] and Russell Hantz's run in ''Samoa''[[note]]He insulted fellow players, sabotaged his own team multiple times, tricked everyone, and generally acted like an entitled savior[[/note]]. Even at her worst, Jerri was never as nasty as Corinne or Russell, and her "villainy" is now run-of-the-mill -- practically every player backstabs their fellow teammates at this point.

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** Jerri Manthey references this phenomenon in the ''Heroes Vs Villains'' season. When Jerri first appeared in the ''Australia'' season, American viewers '''hated''' her -- - she schemed against other players, and was the first certifiable "villain" of the show (so much so that when she appeared on that season's reunion show, she was booed off the stage). In the following seasons, other players would up the stakes in terms of villainy, culminating in Corrine Kaplan's run in ''Gabon''[[note]]She openly dissed another contestant's dead father, and refused to apologize during the reunion show, crossing the MoralEventHorizon beyond a point that ''any'' contestant can cross.[[/note]] and Russell Hantz's run in ''Samoa''[[note]]He insulted fellow players, sabotaged his own team multiple times, tricked everyone, and generally acted like an entitled savior[[/note]]. Even at her worst, Jerri was never as nasty as Corinne or Russell, and her "villainy" is now run-of-the-mill -- - practically every player backstabs their fellow teammates at this point.



** Before that, ''Soap'' also had Creator/BillyCrystal as a gay lead, in a much less cliche role. The character later went straight.

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** Before that, ''Soap'' also had Creator/BillyCrystal Billy Crystal as a gay lead, in a much less cliche role. The character later went straight.



* ''Series/RichManPoorMan'' was the first miniseries, an exploration of long-form storytelling that's become completely standard today. As well, one of its biggest selling points was its frank depiction of sexuality, with the MoralGuardians up in arms over characters talking about "nailing" each other and a white woman considering an affair with a black man. Nowadays, of course, all that seems remarkably tame.

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* ''Series/RichManPoorMan'' ''Rich Man, Poor Man'' was the first miniseries, an exploration of long-form storytelling that's become completely standard today. As well, one of its biggest selling points was its frank depiction of sexuality, with the MoralGuardians up in arms over characters talking about "nailing" each other and a white woman considering an affair with a black man. Nowadays, of course, all that seems remarkably tame.



* On American TV shows of the [[TheSixties mid/late 1960s]] and [[TheSeventies early 1970's]], boasts of "in color." Viewers who have grown up on color TV are likely to have a reaction of, "Um, okay?" In the mid-1960s, however, many shows were still in black-and-white, making the changeover to color significant. Reruns of shows from that period generally leave off the "in color" intro. The real motivation for this kind of thing was to let people who still had black and white [=TVs=] know just what they were missing -- at least, when the point had been reached when the "in color" boast continued to appear while ''everything'' was in color anyway.

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* On American TV shows of the [[TheSixties mid/late 1960s]] and [[TheSeventies early 1970's]], boasts of "in color." Viewers who have grown up on color TV are likely to have a reaction of, "Um, okay?" In the mid-1960s, however, many shows were still in black-and-white, making the changeover to color significant. Reruns of shows from that period generally leave off the "in color" intro. The real motivation for this kind of thing was to let people who still had black and white [=TVs=] know just what they were missing -- - at least, when the point had been reached when the "in color" boast continued to appear while ''everything'' was in color anyway.
14th Oct '16 10:43:27 AM CumbersomeTercel
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** The Season 2 finale, "The Time Meddler", was a WhamEpisode at the time because it was the first story pitting the Doctor against another alien force in a historical period -- up until then, historical stories and science fiction stories had been entirely discrete, so TheReveal that the Monk is another time traveller was a huge twist that broke the established rules of the show. Of course, the 'historical' (a story taking place in a historical period with no sci-fi beyond that of the time travel itself) is a format all but abandoned after the William Hartnell era, so modern viewers checking out his stories often find it more surprising when the Doctor goes into the past and aliens ''don't'' show up.
** It's quite difficult for viewers whose only knowledge of ''Doctor Who'' comes from the revival series to understand why it was such a [[DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER massive source of fandom rage]] when the Doctor had TheBigDamnKiss with his companion in the TV Movie. Ever since the revival series, the show has been very romance-focused, and fans who grew up without the old series' NoHuggingNoKissing have real trouble imagining the show without sexuality. In fact, those fans may look at the romance between the Eighth Doctor and Grace as very subtle and low-key in comparison to what the show gets away with now, since it's transitory and based around heat-of-the-moment feelings -- compare to the character-arc-dominating romance between the Tenth Doctor and [[OneTrueLove Rose]], or how the Eleventh Doctor not only has a lot of offscreen sex with various female characters and leers over other ones but even gets ''married''...
** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]there was a lesbian subtext to the Classic Series companion Ace and the expanded universe already had Izzy Sinclair from "Doctor Who Magazine" come out as lesbian[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.

to:

** The Season 2 finale, "The "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS2E9TheTimeMeddler The Time Meddler", Meddler]]", was a WhamEpisode at the time because it was the first story pitting the Doctor against another alien force in a historical period -- up until then, historical stories and science fiction stories had been entirely discrete, so TheReveal that the Monk is another time traveller was a huge twist that broke the established rules of the show. Of course, the 'historical' (a story taking place in a historical period with no sci-fi beyond that of the time travel itself) is a format all but abandoned after the William Hartnell Creator/WilliamHartnell era, so modern viewers checking out his stories often find it more surprising when the Doctor goes into the past and aliens ''don't'' show up.
** It's quite difficult for viewers whose only knowledge of ''Doctor Who'' comes from the revival series to understand why it was such a [[DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER massive source of fandom rage]] when the Doctor had TheBigDamnKiss with his companion in the [[Recap/DoctorWhoTVMTheTVMovie The TV Movie.Movie]]. Ever since the revival series, the show has been very romance-focused, and fans who grew up without the old series' NoHuggingNoKissing have real trouble imagining the show without sexuality. In fact, those fans may look at the romance between the Eighth Doctor and Grace as very subtle and low-key in comparison to what the show gets away with now, since it's transitory and based around heat-of-the-moment feelings -- compare to the character-arc-dominating romance between the Tenth Doctor and [[OneTrueLove Rose]], or how the Eleventh Doctor not only has a lot of offscreen sex with various female characters and leers over other ones but even gets ''married''...
** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]there was a lesbian subtext to the Classic Series companion Ace and the expanded universe already had Izzy Sinclair from "Doctor Who Magazine" come out as lesbian[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS27E13ThePartingOfTheWays The Parting of the Ways" Ways]]" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.
7th Aug '16 12:49:50 PM tiiger
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* ''Series/MrRobot'' has an in-universe subversion. Leon has only recently discovered ''Series/{{Seinfeld}}'' and is blown away by tropes that so many people have long since internalized.
23rd Jul '16 12:50:13 PM nombretomado
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** The American version of ''Series/BigBrother'' also gets this said about it, especially since there originally ''was'' no "power of veto" and there were almost ''no'' "twists" to speak of in the first two and three seasons. Considering how radically different it is, it can be very hard to appreciate the concept of the early ''BigBrother'' seasons. And not ''just'' in the American version where it's more competitive. (There was ''some'' degree of competition in the Brazilian ''BigBrother'' still.)

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** The American version of ''Series/BigBrother'' also gets this said about it, especially since there originally ''was'' no "power of veto" and there were almost ''no'' "twists" to speak of in the first two and three seasons. Considering how radically different it is, it can be very hard to appreciate the concept of the early ''BigBrother'' ''Big Brother'' seasons. And not ''just'' in the American version where it's more competitive. (There was ''some'' degree of competition in the Brazilian ''BigBrother'' ''Big Brother'' still.)
21st Jul '16 10:30:46 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''Series/BlakesSeven''. Before there was ''Series/BabylonFive'', ''Series/TheXFiles'', ''Series/{{Firefly}}'', and the DarkerAndEdgier ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}'' reimagining, there was this. In 1978, your sci-fi show protagonists were heroic, and landed firmly on the good morality scale. The villains looked like idiots at the end. Everything was supposed to be shiny, and the future was supposed to be better. Even if you had rebels fighting an evil empire, they were supposed to strike and win! Instead, we had a bunch of criminals, mercenaries, and a failed revolutionary stealing a ship and using it for a personal vendetta. The "rebellion" never got above seven people, the villainess was one of the most DangerouslyGenreSavvy characters to strut across a screen in stiletto heels, and the whole thing ended on [[spoiler: [[KillThemAll one protagonist murdering the other]] and [[BolivianArmyEnding getting a summary execution from the Federation troops]]]]. However, it doesn't seem like anything shocking after gorging on anything made past 1992, where ''every'' sci-fi setting is a CrapsackWorld, the "heroes" are dubious at best, and the best ending you'll manage is a BittersweetEnding.

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* ''Series/BlakesSeven''. Before there was ''Series/BabylonFive'', ''Series/TheXFiles'', ''Series/{{Firefly}}'', and the DarkerAndEdgier ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}'' reimagining, there was this. In 1978, your sci-fi show protagonists were heroic, and landed firmly on the good morality scale. The villains looked like idiots at the end. Everything was supposed to be shiny, and the future was supposed to be better. Even if you had rebels fighting an evil empire, they were supposed to strike and win! Instead, we had a bunch of criminals, mercenaries, and a failed revolutionary stealing a ship and using it for a personal vendetta. The "rebellion" never got above seven people, the villainess was one of the most DangerouslyGenreSavvy cunning characters to strut across a screen in stiletto heels, and the whole thing ended on [[spoiler: [[KillThemAll one protagonist murdering the other]] and [[BolivianArmyEnding getting a summary execution from the Federation troops]]]]. However, it doesn't seem like anything shocking after gorging on anything made past 1992, where ''every'' sci-fi setting is a CrapsackWorld, the "heroes" are dubious at best, and the best ending you'll manage is a BittersweetEnding.
23rd May '16 9:44:11 AM MrThorfan64
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** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]the Classic Series companion Ace was implied to be bisexual and the expanded universe already had the openly-lesbian Izzy Sinclair appear in "Doctor Who Magazine"[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.

to:

** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]the on-screen[[note]]there was a lesbian subtext to the Classic Series companion Ace was implied to be bisexual and the expanded universe already had the openly-lesbian Izzy Sinclair appear in from "Doctor Who Magazine"[[/note]], Magazine" come out as lesbian[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.
23rd May '16 9:41:43 AM MrThorfan64
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** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]Ace was implied to be bisexual and the expanded universe already had the openly-lesbian Izzy Sinclair appear in "Doctor Who Magazine"[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.

to:

** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]Ace on-screen[[note]]the Classic Series companion Ace was implied to be bisexual and the expanded universe already had the openly-lesbian Izzy Sinclair appear in "Doctor Who Magazine"[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.
23rd May '16 9:40:06 AM MrThorfan64
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Added DiffLines:

** On a similar level is [[ExtremeOmnisexual Jack Harkness]], the first openly LGBT character on-screen[[note]]Ace was implied to be bisexual and the expanded universe already had the openly-lesbian Izzy Sinclair appear in "Doctor Who Magazine"[[/note]], and a scene where he kisses the Ninth Doctor in the Series 1 finale "The Parting of the Ways" in 2005. At the time it was a source of major controversy. However after the mass of more explicit sexual references and humour in the New series, with openly homosexual and bisexual characters Jack's LGBT status doesn't seem such a major thing. The S1 finale scene feels quite subdued, especially as it comes right after Jack kisses Rose in the same way and not much attention is drawn to it.
2nd May '16 10:55:44 AM WhatArtThee
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* Almost as much as the TropeNamer, ''Series/TheMaryTylerMooreShow'' has fallen victim to this trope. When it aired during the early 1970s, it made an enormous cultural splash in its depiction of a single 30-something year old woman who was more interested in having a fulfilling career than landing a husband, garnering the outrage of MoralGuardians and significantly contributing to the infamous [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Purge Rural Purge]]. The show's critical acclaim and insanely high ratings were even cited as key factors in the rise of UsefulNotes/{{feminism}} during the 1970's. While the series still holds up reasonably well (as opposed to [[Series/MurphyBrown a later show with a very similar premise]]), it may be difficult for modern audiences accustomed to much riskier shows like ''Series/SexAndTheCity'' and ''Series/GilmoreGirls'' to understand just how revolutionary and controversial ''The Mary Tyler Moore Show'' was when it first aired. To see how far network television has come in terms of risky content, one needs to look no further than the ExecutiveMeddling that surrounded the reasoning for Mary being single. The original intent was for her to be newly divorced. However, the network felt such a plot would significantly diminish the show's family appeal (remember, this is when divorce still had a very negative stigma attached to it), so it was retooled to Mary being single by virtue of a broken engagement. Seems pretty quaint, given what women on network television (let alone Cable) are capable of doing today, huh? Another reason the divorcee angle was dropped was because Mary Tyler Moore was coming off a long run on ''Series/TheDickVanDykeShow'' and there were fears that viewers would misinterpret the show's premise as "Rob and Laura got a divorce". (This was one of the reasons Van Dyke himself [[WhatCouldHaveBeen wasn't picked up]] as newly divorced NeatFreak Felix in the film version of ''Series/TheOddCouple''.)

to:

* Almost as much as the TropeNamer, ''Series/TheMaryTylerMooreShow'' has fallen victim to this trope. When it aired during the early 1970s, it made an enormous cultural splash in its depiction of a single 30-something year old woman who was more interested in having a fulfilling career than landing a husband, garnering the outrage of MoralGuardians and significantly contributing to the infamous [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Purge Rural Purge]]. The show's critical acclaim and insanely high ratings were even cited as key factors in the rise of UsefulNotes/{{feminism}} during the 1970's. While the series still holds up reasonably well (as opposed to [[Series/MurphyBrown a later show with a very similar premise]]), However, it may be difficult for modern audiences accustomed to much riskier shows like ''Series/SexAndTheCity'' and ''Series/GilmoreGirls'' to understand just how revolutionary and controversial ''The Mary Tyler Moore Show'' was when it first aired. To see how far network television has come in terms of risky content, one needs to look no further than the ExecutiveMeddling that surrounded the reasoning for Mary being single. The original intent was for her to be newly divorced. However, the network felt such a plot would significantly diminish the show's family appeal (remember, this is when divorce still had a very negative stigma attached to it), so it was retooled to Mary being single by virtue of a broken engagement. Seems pretty quaint, given what women on network television (let alone Cable) are capable of doing today, huh? Another reason the divorcee angle was dropped was because Mary Tyler Moore was coming off a long run on ''Series/TheDickVanDykeShow'' and there were fears that viewers would misinterpret the show's premise as "Rob and Laura got a divorce". (This was one of the reasons Van Dyke himself [[WhatCouldHaveBeen wasn't picked up]] as newly divorced NeatFreak Felix in the film version of ''Series/TheOddCouple''.)



* While ''Series/TheSopranos'' holds up very well to this day (barring a few UnintentionalPeriodPiece moments), it too has fallen victim to this. In 1999 when it came out, it was rather unusual for a television show to feature a morally questionable protagonist, especially a criminal. For instance, ''Series/{{Profit}}'' had also dabbled in the concept just a few years before, but was cancelled after just one season. It was so unusual that David Chase had to fight HBO about whether or not Tony could commit a murder in the fifth episode of the series because HBO was scared of putting off fans. Over the years, series with anti-heroes and villain protagonists have become dime a dozen, with popular series like ''Series/TheShield'', ''Series/{{Dexter}}'', ''Series/{{Deadwood}}'', ''Series/HouseOfCardsUS'', and perhaps most of all, ''Series/BreakingBad'' (which has all but eclipsed ''The Sopranos''[='=] place in popular culture) all featuring protagonists that commit criminal acts up to and including murder on a nearly weekly basis.

to:

* While When ''Series/TheSopranos'' holds up very well to this day (barring a few UnintentionalPeriodPiece moments), it too has fallen victim to this. In 1999 when it came out, out in 1999, it was rather unusual for a television show to feature a morally questionable protagonist, especially a criminal. For instance, ''Series/{{Profit}}'' had also dabbled in the concept just a few years before, but was cancelled after just one season. It was so unusual that David Chase had to fight HBO about whether or not Tony could commit a murder in the fifth episode of the series because HBO was scared of putting off fans. Over the years, series with anti-heroes and villain protagonists have become dime a dozen, with popular series like ''Series/TheShield'', ''Series/{{Dexter}}'', ''Series/{{Deadwood}}'', ''Series/HouseOfCardsUS'', and perhaps most of all, ''Series/BreakingBad'' (which has all but eclipsed ''The Sopranos''[='=] place in popular culture) all featuring protagonists that commit criminal acts up to and including murder on a nearly weekly basis.



** Even amongst Johnny-come-lately ''Survivor'' fans, it can be difficult to get into the earlier seasons. If you watch ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback'' (the first and second seasons, respectively) you'll notice the game was ''majorly'' different back then than it is now. The Tribal switch was actually seen as the '''big twist''' of ''Africa'' (season 3). Nowadays it's in almost ''every season'' of ''Survivor'', partly because it made things a bit less one-sided at the merge. (The game was dominated by the remnants of one team at the merge in ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback''. When the power shifts, it becomes more interesting to watch.) When one takes into account that there was nothing like hidden immunity idols or Exile Island... the first two seasons were actually kinda bland, weren't they? However, at the time, the main draw of ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback'' [[FairForItsDay was still the premise itself]] (being stranded on a deserted island, being stranded in the wild, et cetera). Since the emphasis wasn't on shocking twists and "blindsides", they can still hold up to the modern viewer who simply likes the adventure and/or voyeur aspects.

to:

** Even amongst Johnny-come-lately ''Survivor'' fans, it can be difficult to get into the earlier seasons. If you watch ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback'' (the first and second seasons, respectively) you'll notice the game was ''majorly'' different back then than it is now. The Tribal switch was actually seen as the '''big twist''' of ''Africa'' (season 3). Nowadays it's in almost ''every season'' of ''Survivor'', partly because it made things a bit less one-sided at the merge. (The game was dominated by the remnants of one team at the merge in ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback''. When the power shifts, it becomes more interesting to watch.) When one takes into account that there was nothing like hidden immunity idols or Exile Island... the first two seasons were actually kinda bland, weren't they? However, at the time, the main draw of ''Borneo'' and ''The Australian Outback'' [[FairForItsDay was still the premise itself]] (being stranded on a deserted island, being stranded in the wild, et cetera). Since the emphasis wasn't on shocking twists and "blindsides", they can still hold up to the modern viewer who simply likes the adventure and/or voyeur aspects.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=SeinfeldIsUnfunny.LiveActionTV