History SeinfeldIsUnfunny / ComicBooks

12th Apr '18 9:25:04 AM Pisthetairos
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** Stan Lee himself, while being a revolutionary writer as far as themes and concepts went, based alot of his editorial techniques on Superman publisher Mort Weisenger's. While Weisenger's style is nowadays remembered as pretty much a joke, seen as he wallowed in the worst excesses of the SilverAgeOfComicBooks, he was revolutionary in his use of book-length stories, as opposed to anthologies, his bigger interest in continuity, as one of the earliest AscendedFanboys, and the planning of storylines and arcs based on the possibility of later re-use. So, without him, Marvel's silver age could never have happened. Lee did it well, but Weisengerdid it first.

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** Stan Lee himself, while being a revolutionary writer as far as themes and concepts went, based alot of his editorial techniques on Superman publisher Mort Weisenger's. While Weisenger's style is nowadays remembered as pretty much a joke, seen as he wallowed in the worst excesses of the SilverAgeOfComicBooks, TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks, he was revolutionary in his use of book-length stories, as opposed to anthologies, his bigger interest in continuity, as one of the earliest AscendedFanboys, [[AscendedFanboy Ascended Fanboys]], and the planning of storylines and arcs based on the possibility of later re-use. So, without him, Marvel's silver age could never have happened. Lee did it well, but Weisengerdid it first.
12th Apr '18 9:22:07 AM Pisthetairos
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* ''ComicBook/{{Deathlok}}''. The comic book character debuted in 1974. In 1974, the idea of a man who has been turned into a cyborg and struggles to keep his humanity while fighting against those who transformed him was relatively original. Nowadays it's become a clich&eacute, ripped off by ''Franchise/{{Robocop}}'' and many other sources.

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* ''ComicBook/{{Deathlok}}''. The comic book character debuted in 1974. In 1974, the idea of a man who has been turned into a cyborg and struggles to keep his humanity while fighting against those who transformed him was relatively original. Nowadays it's become a clich&eacute, cliché, ripped off by ''Franchise/{{Robocop}}'' and many other sources.


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** Stan Lee himself, while being a revolutionary writer as far as themes and concepts went, based alot of his editorial techniques on Superman publisher Mort Weisenger's. While Weisenger's style is nowadays remembered as pretty much a joke, seen as he wallowed in the worst excesses of the SilverAgeOfComicBooks, he was revolutionary in his use of book-length stories, as opposed to anthologies, his bigger interest in continuity, as one of the earliest AscendedFanboys, and the planning of storylines and arcs based on the possibility of later re-use. So, without him, Marvel's silver age could never have happened. Lee did it well, but Weisengerdid it first.
29th Dec '17 5:25:21 AM ading
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* ''{{Franchise/Superman}}'' may very well be the flagship example of this trope on comic books; many may wonder what made him so unique, until finding out that this is due to Supes being ''the'' most groundbreaking and pioneering character within the costumed hero genre of comicbooks, inspiring and/or influencing almost all that came after (and even before).

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* ''{{Franchise/Superman}}'' may very well be the flagship example of this trope on comic books; many may wonder what made him so unique, until finding out that this is due to Supes being ''the'' most groundbreaking and pioneering character within the costumed hero genre of comicbooks, inspiring and/or influencing almost all that came after (and even before).after.
15th Nov '17 2:36:15 PM theNerdytimes
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* The 1992 story published in ''Marvel Super-Heroes #8'' in which Franchise/IronMan teams up with a teenage mutant with [[AnimalThemedSuperbeing squirrel powers]] to fight ComicBook/DoctorDoom. The mutant ends up [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome beating Doom]] [[LethalJokeCharacter via logical application of her powers]]. The story became memorable mostly for being essentially a [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] story that nevertheless showed that [[SlidingScaleOfSillinessVersusSeriousness old-school silliness]] did have a place in UsefulNotes/TheIronAgeOfComicBooks. When the character of ComicBook/SquirrelGirl was brought back into comics a decade later, she was no longer as out of place as she had been in 1992, and later writers have had trouble giving her anything to actually ''do'' other than beating high-tier Marvel characters such as ComicBook/{{Thanos}} and ComicBook/{{Galactus}} as a joke that becomes a little less funny every time it happens.
3rd Sep '17 5:35:03 PM Rubber_Lotus
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* ''Comicbook/TheAvengers'' #16, the iconic "The Old Order Changeth," story, completely upended the series' status quo by having almost the entire team resign, leaving Comicbook/CaptainAmerica to lead a new team of Avengers that consisted of lesser known characters like Comicbook/{{Hawkeye}}, Comicbook/ScarletWitch and Comicbook/{{Quicksilver}}. Since then, the idea of superhero rosters [[BreakingTheFellowship drastically changing]] has pretty much become a trope in its own right, but back then, the idea of getting rid of most of a book's A-list characters to focus on a group of second-stringers was unheard of. Similar team books like ''Fantastic Four'' or ''Comicbook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' generally had static casts, and while new members did sometimes join, the core casts usually stayed the same.

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* ''Comicbook/TheAvengers'' #16, the iconic "The Old Order Changeth," story, completely upended the series' status quo by having almost the entire team resign, leaving Comicbook/CaptainAmerica to lead a new team of Avengers that consisted of lesser known characters like Comicbook/{{Hawkeye}}, Comicbook/ScarletWitch and Comicbook/{{Quicksilver}}. Since then, the idea of superhero rosters [[BreakingTheFellowship drastically changing]] has pretty much become a trope in its own right, but back then, the idea of getting rid of most of a book's A-list characters to focus on a group of second-stringers was unheard of. Similar team books like ''Fantastic Four'' or ''Comicbook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' generally had static casts, and while new members did sometimes join, the core casts usually stayed the same.[[note]]Mind, back in the 1960s - or heck, any period before the MarvelCinematicUniverse - the Avengers were not particularly A-list in the grand scheme of Marvel. In fact, the book was sort of a support network for less-popular characters and a testing ground for potential new heroes; when a hero left, it's usually because he/she graduated to a solo book.[[/note]]
30th Jul '17 6:21:45 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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* ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol''. Very shortly after ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' debuted, Creator/DetectiveComics tried their hand at "superhero angst." It was also the first title to pull a KillThemAll ending for the ''entire team''. Now, it might not seem to revolutionary.

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* ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol''. Very shortly after ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' debuted, Creator/DetectiveComics Creator/DCComics tried their hand at "superhero angst." It was also the first title to pull a KillThemAll ending for the ''entire team''. Now, it might not seem to revolutionary.



* ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}''. The Great Darkness Saga is considered one of the all-time best Legion stories. The villain is {{ComicBook/Darkseid}} - a plot element that seems trite nowadays because of Darkseid's overexposure. But the story is from [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks 1982]], when that was a new idea - back then, Darkseid was a very obscure character who showed up in a low-selling comic from a decade ago.

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* ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}''. The Great Darkness Saga is considered one of the all-time best Legion stories. The villain is {{ComicBook/Darkseid}} - a plot element that seems trite nowadays because of Darkseid's overexposure. But the story is from [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks 1982]], when that was a new idea - -- back then, Darkseid was a very obscure character who showed up in a low-selling comic from a decade ago.
28th Jun '17 10:09:26 AM MBG159
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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.

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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe [[WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway the worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
28th Jun '17 10:08:16 AM MBG159
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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.

to:

* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
28th Jun '17 10:07:53 AM MBG159
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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
18th Feb '17 2:57:21 AM Silverblade2
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*** The depiction of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker as a mass murderer (complete with the story casually slinging around triple-digit numbers as his supposed body count) with strong FoeYay overtones toward Batman also originated with this story, as did Batman's internal angst over whether his ThouShaltNotKill code meant that he was responsible for every person the Joker has killed. All of these elements are largely taken for granted in any modern Joker story (granted, the Joker did kill people before ''The Dark Knight Returns'', but the level of seriousness with which those stories - and Batman - took those murders bordered on AngstWhatAngst).

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*** The depiction of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker as a mass murderer (complete with the story casually slinging around triple-digit numbers as his supposed body count) with strong FoeYay overtones toward Batman also originated with this story, as did Batman's internal angst over whether his ThouShaltNotKill code meant that he was responsible for every person the Joker has killed. All of these elements are largely taken for granted in any modern Joker story (granted, the Joker did kill people before ''The Dark Knight Returns'', but the level of seriousness with which those stories - and Batman - took those murders bordered on AngstWhatAngst).



* The ComicBook/FantasticFour introduced the concepts that revolutionized the genre in the early 1960s. It was unimaginable for readers back then to have a superhero with a monstrous appearance like the Thing, or dysfunctional team dynamics (that became so popular, the FF looks normal in comparison with most other groups). That's not to mention the villains, which included [[SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom a dangerous leader of a foreign country]] and [[ComicBook/{{Galactus}} a planet eater entity bound to destroy the universe]]. And they ''didn't have secret identities'', which were a staple for all superheroes then (and are still common even today).

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* The ComicBook/FantasticFour introduced the concepts that revolutionized the genre in the early 1960s. It was unimaginable for readers back then to have a superhero with a monstrous appearance like the Thing, or dysfunctional team dynamics (that became so popular, the FF looks normal in comparison with most other groups). That's not to mention the villains, which included [[SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom a dangerous leader of a foreign country]] country and [[ComicBook/{{Galactus}} a planet eater entity bound to destroy the universe]]. And they ''didn't have secret identities'', which were a staple for all superheroes then (and are still common even today).
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