History SeinfeldIsUnfunny / ComicBooks

3rd Sep '17 5:35:03 PM Rubber_Lotus
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* ''Comicbook/TheAvengers'' #16, the iconic "The Old Order Changeth," story, completely upended the series' status quo by having almost the entire team resign, leaving Comicbook/CaptainAmerica to lead a new team of Avengers that consisted of lesser known characters like Comicbook/{{Hawkeye}}, Comicbook/ScarletWitch and Comicbook/{{Quicksilver}}. Since then, the idea of superhero rosters [[BreakingTheFellowship drastically changing]] has pretty much become a trope in its own right, but back then, the idea of getting rid of most of a book's A-list characters to focus on a group of second-stringers was unheard of. Similar team books like ''Fantastic Four'' or ''Comicbook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' generally had static casts, and while new members did sometimes join, the core casts usually stayed the same.

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* ''Comicbook/TheAvengers'' #16, the iconic "The Old Order Changeth," story, completely upended the series' status quo by having almost the entire team resign, leaving Comicbook/CaptainAmerica to lead a new team of Avengers that consisted of lesser known characters like Comicbook/{{Hawkeye}}, Comicbook/ScarletWitch and Comicbook/{{Quicksilver}}. Since then, the idea of superhero rosters [[BreakingTheFellowship drastically changing]] has pretty much become a trope in its own right, but back then, the idea of getting rid of most of a book's A-list characters to focus on a group of second-stringers was unheard of. Similar team books like ''Fantastic Four'' or ''Comicbook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' generally had static casts, and while new members did sometimes join, the core casts usually stayed the same.[[note]]Mind, back in the 1960s - or heck, any period before the MarvelCinematicUniverse - the Avengers were not particularly A-list in the grand scheme of Marvel. In fact, the book was sort of a support network for less-popular characters and a testing ground for potential new heroes; when a hero left, it's usually because he/she graduated to a solo book.[[/note]]
30th Jul '17 6:21:45 AM FuzzyBarbarian
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* ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol''. Very shortly after ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' debuted, Creator/DetectiveComics tried their hand at "superhero angst." It was also the first title to pull a KillThemAll ending for the ''entire team''. Now, it might not seem to revolutionary.

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* ''Comicbook/DoomPatrol''. Very shortly after ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' debuted, Creator/DetectiveComics Creator/DCComics tried their hand at "superhero angst." It was also the first title to pull a KillThemAll ending for the ''entire team''. Now, it might not seem to revolutionary.



* ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}''. The Great Darkness Saga is considered one of the all-time best Legion stories. The villain is {{ComicBook/Darkseid}} - a plot element that seems trite nowadays because of Darkseid's overexposure. But the story is from [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks 1982]], when that was a new idea - back then, Darkseid was a very obscure character who showed up in a low-selling comic from a decade ago.

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* ''ComicBook/{{Legion of Super-Heroes}}''. The Great Darkness Saga is considered one of the all-time best Legion stories. The villain is {{ComicBook/Darkseid}} - a plot element that seems trite nowadays because of Darkseid's overexposure. But the story is from [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks 1982]], when that was a new idea - -- back then, Darkseid was a very obscure character who showed up in a low-selling comic from a decade ago.
28th Jun '17 10:09:26 AM MBG159
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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.

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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe [[WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway the worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
28th Jun '17 10:08:16 AM MBG159
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* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.

to:

* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice [[{{Fanservice}} sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
28th Jun '17 10:07:53 AM MBG159
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Added DiffLines:

* Creator/ChrisClaremont and Creator/JohnByrne's 70s-80s work on ''ComicBook/XMen'' and ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' are often remembered for standardizing the idea of ActionGirl heroines. Back in their time, team books held a pretty universal grip on TheSmurfettePrinciple, and the one female character who did show up would almost always have [[WhatKindOfALamePowerIsHeartAnywaythe worst powers,]] [[FauxActionGirl no nerves or skills]], and the role of [[DamselScrappy being captured once an issue.]] The idea of a team with multiple female heroes on it, where the female heroes have abilities level with and [[SuperpowerLottery frequently far exceeding]] their male counterparts, receiving CharacterFocus, and being treated as powerful and feared by the narrative, was basically unheard of. Today, this is basically the absolute bare minimum for any team book that isn't [[GrandfatherClause recycling an old lineup]], and the idea of competent and respected female heroes not named ComicBook/WonderWoman existing is pretty much universally accepted. Indeed, to modern readers, Claremont and Byrne's work can come off as more than a bit [[UnfortunateImplications regressive]], largely due to the heavy [[Fanservice sexual]] and [[AuthorAppeal fetishistic]] imagery and themes involved in a lot of their female characters.
18th Feb '17 2:57:21 AM Silverblade2
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*** The depiction of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker as a mass murderer (complete with the story casually slinging around triple-digit numbers as his supposed body count) with strong FoeYay overtones toward Batman also originated with this story, as did Batman's internal angst over whether his ThouShaltNotKill code meant that he was responsible for every person the Joker has killed. All of these elements are largely taken for granted in any modern Joker story (granted, the Joker did kill people before ''The Dark Knight Returns'', but the level of seriousness with which those stories - and Batman - took those murders bordered on AngstWhatAngst).

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*** The depiction of SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker ComicBook/TheJoker as a mass murderer (complete with the story casually slinging around triple-digit numbers as his supposed body count) with strong FoeYay overtones toward Batman also originated with this story, as did Batman's internal angst over whether his ThouShaltNotKill code meant that he was responsible for every person the Joker has killed. All of these elements are largely taken for granted in any modern Joker story (granted, the Joker did kill people before ''The Dark Knight Returns'', but the level of seriousness with which those stories - and Batman - took those murders bordered on AngstWhatAngst).



* The ComicBook/FantasticFour introduced the concepts that revolutionized the genre in the early 1960s. It was unimaginable for readers back then to have a superhero with a monstrous appearance like the Thing, or dysfunctional team dynamics (that became so popular, the FF looks normal in comparison with most other groups). That's not to mention the villains, which included [[SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom a dangerous leader of a foreign country]] and [[ComicBook/{{Galactus}} a planet eater entity bound to destroy the universe]]. And they ''didn't have secret identities'', which were a staple for all superheroes then (and are still common even today).

to:

* The ComicBook/FantasticFour introduced the concepts that revolutionized the genre in the early 1960s. It was unimaginable for readers back then to have a superhero with a monstrous appearance like the Thing, or dysfunctional team dynamics (that became so popular, the FF looks normal in comparison with most other groups). That's not to mention the villains, which included [[SelfDemonstrating/DoctorDoom a dangerous leader of a foreign country]] country and [[ComicBook/{{Galactus}} a planet eater entity bound to destroy the universe]]. And they ''didn't have secret identities'', which were a staple for all superheroes then (and are still common even today).
8th Jan '17 8:45:45 PM SergeantLuke
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* In general, [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] and to a lesser extent [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] comic books are often difficult for modern fans to fully appreciate. Changes in computer and publishing technology have allowed for current comics to have very detailed and high-quality art, making the basic coloring and simpler line work of older stories less palatable; many innovations in composition and design had yet to take place, making them feel a lot more flat and bland; and the writing styles of older eras, when compared to the more natural and movie-like dialogue of today, were very wordy, melodramatic, and eccentric, and often perceived as juvenile. Add all that together, and it's quite common to see casual comic fans read through ''Action Comics #1'' or ''Detective Comics #27'' and wonder, "how did ''that'' manage to take off?!"

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* In general, [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks [[UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] and to a lesser extent [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] comic books are often difficult for modern fans to fully appreciate. Changes in computer and publishing technology have allowed for current comics to have very detailed and high-quality art, making the basic coloring and simpler line work of older stories less palatable; many innovations in composition and design had yet to take place, making them feel a lot more flat and bland; and the writing styles of older eras, when compared to the more natural and movie-like dialogue of today, were very wordy, melodramatic, and eccentric, and often perceived as juvenile. Add all that together, and it's quite common to see casual comic fans read through ''Action Comics #1'' or ''Detective Comics #27'' and wonder, "how did ''that'' manage to take off?!"
8th Jan '17 8:45:23 PM SergeantLuke
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* In general, [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] and to a lesser extent [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] comic books are often difficult for modern fans to fully appreciate. Changes in computer and publishing technology have allowed for current comics to have very detailed and high-quality art, making the basic coloring and simpler line work of older stories less palatable; many innovations and experiments in composition and design had yet to take place, making them feel a lot more flat and bland; and the writing styles of older eras, when compared to the more natural and movie-like dialogue of today, were very wordy, melodramatic, and eccentric, and often perceived as juvenile. Add all that together, and it's quite common to see casual comic fans read through ''Action Comics #1'' or ''Detective Comics #27'' and wonder, "how did ''that'' manage to take off?!"

to:

* In general, [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] and to a lesser extent [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] comic books are often difficult for modern fans to fully appreciate. Changes in computer and publishing technology have allowed for current comics to have very detailed and high-quality art, making the basic coloring and simpler line work of older stories less palatable; many innovations and experiments in composition and design had yet to take place, making them feel a lot more flat and bland; and the writing styles of older eras, when compared to the more natural and movie-like dialogue of today, were very wordy, melodramatic, and eccentric, and often perceived as juvenile. Add all that together, and it's quite common to see casual comic fans read through ''Action Comics #1'' or ''Detective Comics #27'' and wonder, "how did ''that'' manage to take off?!"
8th Jan '17 8:45:06 PM SergeantLuke
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Added DiffLines:

* In general, [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] and to a lesser extent [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] comic books are often difficult for modern fans to fully appreciate. Changes in computer and publishing technology have allowed for current comics to have very detailed and high-quality art, making the basic coloring and simpler line work of older stories less palatable; many innovations and experiments in composition and design had yet to take place, making them feel a lot more flat and bland; and the writing styles of older eras, when compared to the more natural and movie-like dialogue of today, were very wordy, melodramatic, and eccentric, and often perceived as juvenile. Add all that together, and it's quite common to see casual comic fans read through ''Action Comics #1'' or ''Detective Comics #27'' and wonder, "how did ''that'' manage to take off?!"
11th Dec '16 2:39:24 PM Morgenthaler
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*** The revelation that Jason Todd was killed before the events of the story held a lot more weight when the book first came out, since the character's death hadn't yet happened in the regular comics (''A Death in the Family'' didn't come out until 1988), and the idea of Robin being KilledOffForReal was still unthinkable to most readers. Now that Jason has since [[ComicBookDeath died and been resurrected]] as a {{badass}} AntiHero with his own series, hearing Franchise/{{Batman}} angsting over his death can cause some eye-rolling.

to:

*** The revelation that Jason Todd was killed before the events of the story held a lot more weight when the book first came out, since the character's death hadn't yet happened in the regular comics (''A Death in the Family'' didn't come out until 1988), and the idea of Robin being KilledOffForReal was still unthinkable to most readers. Now that Jason has since [[ComicBookDeath died and been resurrected]] as a {{badass}} badass AntiHero with his own series, hearing Franchise/{{Batman}} angsting over his death can cause some eye-rolling.
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