History RealLife / CoolBoat

21st Sep '17 7:30:03 PM TheD3rp
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** A favorite pastime of forum posters is to weave plenty of scenarios around which was "stronger" or "hardier" or "better armed" and could have done better: ''Bismarck'' vs ''Hood'', ''Bismarck'' vs ''Prince of Wales'' and so on. Actually, judging with a cool head, ''Bismarck performed brilliantly her job as a battleship''. She engaged two enemies at once, as per given orders, to engage combat only when absolutely needed. Then scored while all 3 ships were trying to outmanoeuver each other at 28 knots, a hard job even for modern age guided ammo. Then blew up HMS ''Hood'', her equal, and almost crippled ''Prince of Wales''. Which is exactly what 50,000-ton battleships are supposed to do. She did not fail due to torpedoes or shell hits, she failed due to awful strategy. Admiral Lütjens did not fully fuel the ship when needed, did not finish off ''Prince of Wales'' despite [[JustFollowingOrders the standing orders]] [[SubvertedTrope having left this window of opportunity]] and did not abort the Atlantic raiding mission immediately after the ship was hit. [[RuleOfThree Three absurd strategic decisions piled up upon each other]]. They were the reasons ''Bismarck'' got caught, torpedoed, crippled and finally sunk. Otherwise she could have escaped with 2 sunk capital ships, an outstanding success. People usually can't believe a talented and experienced officer could have killed himself and his crew due to a stupid decision, they search and nitpick for some hidden fault in the ship's construction, guns or machinery to blame.
---> ''If now these British cruisers are maintaining contact and Lütjens has sunk the Hood and nearly crippled the other, which was brand new and having trouble with her guns during the action, why didn't he sink her too? Why hasn't he tried to get out of there or why hasn't he turned around?'' - '''[[AdolfHitler Adolf Hitler]]''', May 24, 1941

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** A favorite pastime of forum posters is to weave plenty of scenarios around which was "stronger" or "hardier" or "better armed" and could have done better: The ''Bismarck'' vs ''Hood'', is actually a pretty hard aversion of this when looked at in context. During the Battle of the Denmark Strait, ''Bismarck'' vs ''Prince of Wales'' sank ''Hood'' - a vessel laid down in 1916 and so on. Actually, judging with a cool head, ''Bismarck performed brilliantly her job as a battleship''. She engaged two enemies at once, as per given orders, to engage combat only when absolutely needed. Then scored while all 3 ships whose three sisters were trying to outmanoeuver each other at 28 knots, a hard job even cancelled for modern age guided ammo. Then blew up HMS ''Hood'', her equal, and almost crippled ''Prince of Wales''. Which is exactly what 50,000-ton battleships are supposed to do. She did not fail being obsolete - due to torpedoes or shell hits, she failed due to awful strategy. Admiral Lütjens did not fully fuel the ship when needed, did not finish a lucky shot and drove off ''Prince of Wales'' despite [[JustFollowingOrders the standing orders]] [[SubvertedTrope having left this window of opportunity]] Wales'', a battleship with numerous teething issues that hadn't even finished shakedown (Despite this, it still managed to land two relatively important hits on ''Bismarck'', creating a fuel leak and did not abort the Atlantic raiding mission immediately after the ship was hit. [[RuleOfThree Three absurd strategic decisions piled up upon each other]]. They were the reasons damaging a boiler. Also, it is highly unlikely that ''Bismarck'' got caught, torpedoed, crippled and finally sunk. Otherwise she could have escaped with 2 sunk capital ships, an outstanding success. People usually can't believe a talented and experienced officer could actually managed to sink ''Prince of Wales''.) Then, ''Bismarck'' proceeded to have killed himself and his crew due its rudder crippled (In no small part caused by its impractical three-screw arrangement) by an outdated biplane thanks to a stupid decision, they search and nitpick for some hidden fault in having possibly one of the ship's construction, guns or machinery to blame.
---> ''If now these
worst anti-aircraft suites of the war. Now stuck circling, ''Bismarck'' was up against a large British task force... sort of. Of the ships in the task force, the cruisers are maintaining contact and Lütjens has sunk destroyers held back until the Hood very end of the battle as was standard procedure, leaving the battleships HMS ''King George V'' and nearly crippled HMS ''Rodney'' to actually engage ''Bismarck''. ''King George V'', however, was mostly ineffectual for the other, which same reasons as ''Prince of Wales'', leaving the duel between the 20-year-old ''Rodney'' and admittedly handicapped ''Bismarck.'' The result? ''Rodney'' rendered ''Bismarck'' combat-ineffective within 40 minutes, at the closer ranges ''Bismarck'' was brand new designed to fight at no less, allowing the other Royal Navy ships to close in and force the ''Bismarck'''s crew to scuttle. ''Bismarck'' sank to the bottom of the ocean having trouble taken an obsolete fast battleship and none of its intended targets - merchant ships - with her guns during the action, why didn't he sink her too? Why hasn't he tried to get out of there or why hasn't he turned around?'' - '''[[AdolfHitler Adolf Hitler]]''', May 24, 1941it.
20th Sep '17 5:57:08 AM Nautilus1
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--> ''If now these British cruisers are maintaining contact and Lütjens has sunk the Hood and nearly crippled the other, which was brand new and having trouble with her guns during the action, why didn't he sink her too? Why hasn't he tried to get out of there or why hasn't he turned around?'' - '''[[AdolfHitler Adolf Hitler]]''', May 24, 1941

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--> ---> ''If now these British cruisers are maintaining contact and Lütjens has sunk the Hood and nearly crippled the other, which was brand new and having trouble with her guns during the action, why didn't he sink her too? Why hasn't he tried to get out of there or why hasn't he turned around?'' - '''[[AdolfHitler Adolf Hitler]]''', May 24, 1941
20th Sep '17 5:56:25 AM Nautilus1
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--> ''If now these British cruisers are maintaining contact and Lütjens has sunk the Hood and nearly crippled the other, which was brand new and having trouble with her guns during the action, why didn't he sink her too? Why hasn't he tried to get out of there or why hasn't he turned around?'' - '''[[AdolfHitler Adolf Hitler]]''', May 24, 1941
20th Sep '17 5:31:13 AM Nautilus1
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** ''Bismarck'' stands out in memory for performing the feat of blowing up Britain's favorite battlecruiser, HMS ''Hood'', almost before the battle had really started (luck played its part there, to be sure, and if a planned refit had been carried out ''Hood'' would've probably been able to give ''Bismark'' a good fight[[note]]her deck armor would've been beefed up, and the poorly-protected ammunition magazine that ''Bismark'' blew up to sink her would've no longer existed[[/note]], but still) and for her own arguably heroic last stand against an overwhelming force only days afterwards -- both on her very first actual mission. I'd like to draw a direct parallel to the ''Titanic'', which is likewise remembered first and foremost for that tragic encounter with the iceberg on her maiden voyage...I think the fate of both ships captured the public imagination in a similar fashion. How well either might have done in practice if their respective careers ''had'' lasted longer doesn't really affect the myths built around them anymore.

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** ''Bismarck'' stands out in memory for performing the feat of blowing up Britain's favorite battlecruiser, HMS ''Hood'', almost before the battle had really started (luck played its part there, to be sure, and if a planned refit had been carried out ''Hood'' would've probably been able to give ''Bismark'' ''Bismarck'' a good fight[[note]]her deck armor would've been beefed up, and the poorly-protected ammunition magazine that ''Bismark'' ''Bismarck'' blew up to sink her would've no longer existed[[/note]], but still) and for her own arguably heroic last stand against an overwhelming force only days afterwards -- both on her very first actual mission. I'd like to draw a direct parallel to the ''Titanic'', which is likewise remembered first and foremost for that tragic encounter with the iceberg on her maiden voyage...I think the fate of both ships captured the public imagination in a similar fashion. How well either might have done in practice if their respective careers ''had'' lasted longer doesn't really affect the myths built around them anymore.anymore.
** A favorite pastime of forum posters is to weave plenty of scenarios around which was "stronger" or "hardier" or "better armed" and could have done better: ''Bismarck'' vs ''Hood'', ''Bismarck'' vs ''Prince of Wales'' and so on. Actually, judging with a cool head, ''Bismarck performed brilliantly her job as a battleship''. She engaged two enemies at once, as per given orders, to engage combat only when absolutely needed. Then scored while all 3 ships were trying to outmanoeuver each other at 28 knots, a hard job even for modern age guided ammo. Then blew up HMS ''Hood'', her equal, and almost crippled ''Prince of Wales''. Which is exactly what 50,000-ton battleships are supposed to do. She did not fail due to torpedoes or shell hits, she failed due to awful strategy. Admiral Lütjens did not fully fuel the ship when needed, did not finish off ''Prince of Wales'' despite [[JustFollowingOrders the standing orders]] [[SubvertedTrope having left this window of opportunity]] and did not abort the Atlantic raiding mission immediately after the ship was hit. [[RuleOfThree Three absurd strategic decisions piled up upon each other]]. They were the reasons ''Bismarck'' got caught, torpedoed, crippled and finally sunk. Otherwise she could have escaped with 2 sunk capital ships, an outstanding success. People usually can't believe a talented and experienced officer could have killed himself and his crew due to a stupid decision, they search and nitpick for some hidden fault in the ship's construction, guns or machinery to blame.
1st Sep '17 5:47:43 PM DarthWalrus
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*** Fun fact about the Iowa's 16" cannons. They were designed to fire a special "Super-heavy" shell that weighed nearly half again as heavy as regular 16" shells, giving it ''immense'' armor-penetrating capabilities.
1st Sep '17 5:44:18 PM DarthWalrus
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** Unfortunately, these massive ships were, in all likelyhood, nothing more than showpieces, [[AwesomeButImpractical stuck to floating along the yangtze river]], due to their oversized hulls becoming too unstable to stay together in rougher waters.
16th Jul '17 9:04:02 AM nombretomado
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* The I-400 series of submarines of late-war [[KatanasoftheRisingSun Imperial Japan]] were the largest submarines until the decades-later Soviet Typhoons. Each had a rated underwater speed of 12 knots when the average for WW2 subs was 10, could circumnavigate the globe nearly one and a half times on one tank of gas and were intended to knock out the Panama Canal and other strategic East Pacific targets had the war not ended when it did. What truly sets the I-400 class apart from every submarine before or since was its capability to launch and recover the 3 float planes stored in its hangar. Making it more like an [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot underwater-capable submarine-shaped escort carrier]] with 8 torpedo tubes. Or as it was eventually intended to use them, a [[SuicideAttack submarine-shaped kamikaze carrier]]. Up to 17 were planned, with only I-400, I-401 and I-402 being completed. 400 and 401 were captured by the US after the Japanese surrender and sunk as practice targets, while 402 was converted to a tanker submarine in June 1945 before being sunk post-war for target practice like her sisters.

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* The I-400 series of submarines of late-war [[KatanasoftheRisingSun Imperial Japan]] were the largest submarines until the decades-later Soviet Typhoons. Each had a rated underwater speed of 12 knots when the average for WW2 [=WW2=] subs was 10, could circumnavigate the globe nearly one and a half times on one tank of gas and were intended to knock out the Panama Canal and other strategic East Pacific targets had the war not ended when it did. What truly sets the I-400 class apart from every submarine before or since was its capability to launch and recover the 3 float planes stored in its hangar. Making it more like an [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot underwater-capable submarine-shaped escort carrier]] with 8 torpedo tubes. Or as it was eventually intended to use them, a [[SuicideAttack submarine-shaped kamikaze carrier]]. Up to 17 were planned, with only I-400, I-401 and I-402 being completed. 400 and 401 were captured by the US after the Japanese surrender and sunk as practice targets, while 402 was converted to a tanker submarine in June 1945 before being sunk post-war for target practice like her sisters.
27th Jun '17 5:12:56 PM nombretomado
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* And let's not forget the Great-Granmammy of all these [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal sweet sexy sea]] lassies: The ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_(submarine) H. L. Hunley]]''. Now, saddly she was a bit of a, ah... [[IncrediblyLamePun Sinking]] [[WalkingDisasterArea Disaster Area]] with sinking three times taking two and a half crews (and her financier/builder) with her, but she was the very ''first'' submarine to ''ever'' sink an enemy ship in combat. And don't let those images on TheOtherWiki fool you. When the wreck was finally lifted from the seafloor (and removed of the low visiblility), people were saying that, with the surprising knife-like bow and stern and flush rivets, the sub looks a lot more like a WWI-Era U-Boat than the boxy retrofitted boiler that everyone was expecting. Keep in mind that this thing was built during the height of the UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar by the industrially behind Confederacy, during a time when water-tight seals and pressure hulls intended to go under the surface for extended periods of time were beyond the cutting edge at best.

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* And let's not forget the Great-Granmammy of all these [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal sweet sexy sea]] lassies: The ''[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_(submarine) H. L. Hunley]]''. Now, saddly she was a bit of a, ah... [[IncrediblyLamePun Sinking]] [[WalkingDisasterArea Disaster Area]] with sinking three times taking two and a half crews (and her financier/builder) with her, but she was the very ''first'' submarine to ''ever'' sink an enemy ship in combat. And don't let those images on TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki fool you. When the wreck was finally lifted from the seafloor (and removed of the low visiblility), people were saying that, with the surprising knife-like bow and stern and flush rivets, the sub looks a lot more like a WWI-Era U-Boat than the boxy retrofitted boiler that everyone was expecting. Keep in mind that this thing was built during the height of the UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar by the industrially behind Confederacy, during a time when water-tight seals and pressure hulls intended to go under the surface for extended periods of time were beyond the cutting edge at best.
26th Jun '17 3:14:04 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* The ''Shōkaku''-class aircraft carriers were the best carriers of the [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun Imperial Japanese Navy]], and arguably the best carriers in the world when the war started, with speed that was unmatched and a large air complement of what was then [[CoolPlane the most advanced carrier aircraft]] in the world. They were part of the strike force that [[AttackAtDawn assaulted Pearl Harbor]] and began the Pacific War, and after the [[CurbStompBattle disastrous Battle of Midway]] which saw 4 of the IJN's six fleet carriers sunk, they became to crux of Japan's naval air strength for the rest of the war until the IJN's carrier force was wiped out in 1944.

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* The ''Shōkaku''-class aircraft carriers were the best carriers of the [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun Imperial Japanese Navy]], and arguably the best carriers in the world when the war started, with speed that was unmatched and a large air complement of what was then [[CoolPlane the most advanced carrier aircraft]] in the world. They were part of the strike force that [[AttackAtDawn [[DawnAttack assaulted Pearl Harbor]] and began the Pacific War, and after the [[CurbStompBattle disastrous Battle of Midway]] which saw 4 of the IJN's six fleet carriers sunk, they became to crux of Japan's naval air strength for the rest of the war until the IJN's carrier force was wiped out in 1944.
26th Jun '17 3:09:41 AM WikiGuardianAngel
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* The carrier and class namer [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_%28CV-5%29 USS Yorktown (CV-5)]] surely has to qualify. She sustained three bomb hits, one of which punched right through the flight deck armor and killed sixty-six of her crew, and another twelve damage-causing near-misses at the Battle of Coral Sea -- the first battle in which aircraft carriers directly opposed one another, and for that reason also the first in which neither side's ships sighted or fired directly upon the other. Initial repair estimate: three months. Upon arriving in Pearl Harbour 18 days later the estimate had shrunk to two weeks in drydock. The yard dogs turned her loose [[ScottyTime 48 hours later]] to participate in the Battle of Midway. At Midway on June 4, she took three severe bomb hits but was back underway in a hour, just in time to receive two torpedo hits. With a 26 degree list, she was deemed unsafe and abandoned. A salvage party arrived June 6 to right the ship and were making good progress when two more torpedoes struck. Finally, a sinking destroyer's magazine exploded, blowing equipment off the ship, sending internal fixtures flying about, and breaking bones among the salvage party. The USS ''Yorktown'' [[RasputinianDeath finally sank on June 7, 1942]] at 7:01 am before a second salvage attempt could be made. The near miraculous recoveries [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat convinced the Japanese they had sunk a different, undamaged carrier three times]] (thus actually believing at first that Midway was at least a stalemate, and reporting home that ''Yorktown'', ''Enterprise'' and ''Hornet'' had all been sunk[[note]]In fact, this would've made Midway something of a strategic victory for Japan had it been true, since it would've left USS ''Saratoga'' as the entirety of the US Pacific Fleet's carrier force...and she was out of commission for repairs until six months later.[[/note]]); once at Coral Sea and twice at Midway. "The Fighting Lady" was one tough mother.

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* The carrier and class namer nameship [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_%28CV-5%29 USS Yorktown (CV-5)]] surely has to qualify. She sustained three bomb hits, one of which punched right through the flight deck armor and killed sixty-six of her crew, and another twelve damage-causing near-misses at the Battle of Coral Sea -- the first battle in which aircraft carriers directly opposed one another, and for that reason also the first in which neither side's ships sighted or fired directly upon the other. Initial repair estimate: three months. Upon arriving in Pearl Harbour 18 days later the estimate had shrunk to two weeks in drydock. The yard dogs turned her loose [[ScottyTime 48 hours later]] to participate in the Battle of Midway. At Midway on June 4, she took three severe bomb hits but was back underway in a hour, just in time to receive two torpedo hits. With a 26 degree list, she was deemed unsafe and abandoned. A salvage party arrived June 6 to right the ship and were making good progress when two more torpedoes struck. Finally, a sinking destroyer's magazine exploded, blowing equipment off the ship, sending internal fixtures flying about, and breaking bones among the salvage party. The USS ''Yorktown'' [[RasputinianDeath finally sank on June 7, 1942]] at 7:01 am before a second salvage attempt could be made. The near miraculous recoveries [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat convinced the Japanese they had sunk a different, undamaged carrier three times]] (thus actually believing at first that Midway was at least a stalemate, and reporting home that ''Yorktown'', ''Enterprise'' and ''Hornet'' had all been sunk[[note]]In fact, this would've made Midway something of a strategic victory for Japan had it been true, since it would've left USS ''Saratoga'' as the entirety of the US Pacific Fleet's carrier force...and she was out of commission for repairs until six months later.[[/note]]); once at Coral Sea and twice at Midway. "The Fighting Lady" was one tough mother.



* The ''Shōkaku''-class aircraft carriers were the best carriers of the [[KatanasOfTheRisingSun Imperial Japanese Navy]], and arguably the best carriers in the world when the war started, with speed that was unmatched and a large air complement of what was then [[CoolPlane the most advanced carrier aircraft]] in the world. They were part of the strike force that [[AttackAtDawn assaulted Pearl Harbor]] and began the Pacific War, and after the [[CurbStompBattle disastrous Battle of Midway]] which saw 4 of the IJN's six fleet carriers sunk, they became to crux of Japan's naval air strength for the rest of the war until the IJN's carrier force was wiped out in 1944.



* The ''Yamato-class'' Battleships. They were the largest battleships ever made (surpassed in military vessel size only by the Nimitz supercarriers), which automatically makes them {{Cool Boat}}s, even if they was sunk before causing much damage. Also, the anime ''[[Anime/UchuuSenkanYamato Space Battleship Yamato]]'' turned the nameship into a CoolStarship, which has to earn some extra points.

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* The ''Yamato-class'' ''Yamato''-class Battleships. They were the largest battleships ever made (surpassed in military vessel size only by the Nimitz supercarriers), which automatically makes them {{Cool Boat}}s, even if they was sunk before causing much damage. Also, the anime ''[[Anime/UchuuSenkanYamato Space Battleship Yamato]]'' turned the nameship into a CoolStarship, which has to earn some extra points.



** The ''Yamato''-class didn't get that much action because they were so crucial to the IJN's naval strategy, as the most powerful battleships in existence[[note]]at least in raw stats in surface warfare[[/note]], that they were TooAwesomeToUse for anything less than the decisive battle to end the war, and therefore sat in port until it was too late.
** [[http://www.amazon.com/The-World-Wonderd-Really-Happened-ebook/dp/B00KN1I09O Some]] have argued that the ''Yamato'' actually had the crown of the longest range gunnery hit, or at least damaging shot, to another moving target, with her salvo damaging the escort carrier ''White Plains'' (the very same same ship that would eventually defeat the heavy cruiser ''Choukai'' in a gun duel) from ''31 kilometers away''. While technically it's not a direct hit, the shell ended up causing damage by detonating under the ''White Plains''' keel, which means that it's one of the few times where her Type 1 shell, which were designed for diving shot (and thus has less than stellar performance on a direct hit), worked ''perfectly''.

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** The ''Yamato''-class didn't get that much action because they were so crucial to the IJN's naval strategy, as the most powerful battleships in existence[[note]]at least in raw stats in surface warfare[[/note]], that they were TooAwesomeToUse for anything less than the decisive battle to end the war, and therefore sat in port awaiting the opportunity until it was too late.
** [[http://www.amazon.com/The-World-Wonderd-Really-Happened-ebook/dp/B00KN1I09O Some]] have argued that the ''Yamato'' actually had the crown of the longest range gunnery hit, or at least damaging shot, to another moving target, with her salvo damaging the escort carrier ''White Plains'' (the very same same ship that would eventually defeat the heavy cruiser ''Choukai'' in a gun duel) enough to send her back to the continent for repairs from ''31 kilometers away''. While technically it's not a direct hit, the shell ended up causing enough damage by detonating under the ''White Plains''' keel, keel[[note]]modern torpedoes intentionally do this to break a ship's keel[[/note]], which means that it's one of the few times where her Type 1 shell, which were designed for diving shot (and thus has less than stellar performance on a direct hit), worked ''perfectly''.
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