History NightmareFuel / MageTheAwakening

27th Apr '16 7:39:16 PM Leliel
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*** You're thinking of the Exarchs. And it's not so much they caused those things so much as ''[[AbstractApotheosis became]]'' them-the General of Forces ''is'' the notion that MightMakesRight and the notion that violence solves everything, while the Chancellor of Matter ''is'' {{Greed}} and the devaluation of everything and every''one'' into replaceable resources and commodities. They aren't even really ''people'' any more so much as impulses shared by all the beings who live in their Supernal palaces...but they're still human ''enough'' to focus what remains of their personalities into [[GodInHumanForm ochemata]] and the Lie. The Lie, it should be noted, is not "magic doesn't exist." It's the constant, Supernal refrain of [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech the words]] the Exarchs use to clamp down on any rival to their power: "Magic may or may not exist. ''You'' don't deserve it, and ''never'' did. ''You'' are nothing before the world, it's better to hide behind our chosen elect, where it's safe. From everything but the elect, but better us than the world, which is rotten, and cruel, and frightening, and we're the only things that can and are willing to protect you, and it is ''our'' right to do whatever we want to you because of it. It's okay to live in ignorance. Ignorance dulls the pain, and all knowledge does is rob you of happiness before the end. You will obey, or you will die-''that'' is the nature of things."

to:

*** You're thinking of the Exarchs. And it's not so much they caused those things so much as ''[[AbstractApotheosis became]]'' them-the General of Forces ''is'' the notion that MightMakesRight and the notion that violence solves everything, while the Chancellor of Matter ''is'' {{Greed}} and the devaluation of everything and every''one'' into replaceable resources and commodities. They aren't even really ''people'' any more so much as impulses shared by all the beings who live in their Supernal palaces...but they're still human ''enough'' to focus what remains of their personalities into [[GodInHumanForm ochemata]] and the Lie. The Lie, it should be noted, is not "magic doesn't exist." It's the constant, Supernal refrain of [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech the words]] the Exarchs use to clamp down on any rival to their power: "Magic may or may not exist. ''You'' exists, but you will never see it. ''[[YouSuck You]]'' don't deserve it, to see wonder, and ''never'' ''[[HumansAreTheRealMonsters never]]'' did. ''You'' are nothing before the world, it's better to hide behind our [[LesCollaborateurs chosen elect, elect]], where it's safe. [[EvilVersusOblivion safe]]. [[BlackAndGreyMorality From everything but the elect, but better us than the world, world]], which is [[CrapsackWorld rotten, and cruel, and frightening, frightening]], and [[ALighterShadeOfBlack we're the only things that can and are willing to protect you, you]], and it is ''our'' right [[RightOfASuperiorSpecies right]] to do whatever we want to you because of it. It's okay to live in ignorance. [[IgnoranceIsBliss Ignorance dulls the pain, and all knowledge does is rob you of happiness before the end.end]]. You will obey, or you will die-''that'' is the nature of things."" That message is so ''deeply encoded into reality'' that no member of the Pentacle has ''begun'' to figure out a way to remove it from the back of the mind of ''everybody in the world''. Small wonder the mood of the NewWorldOfDarkness is so somber.
27th Apr '16 7:58:25 AM Leliel
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** You know who I find scarier? The guys in the Supernal Realms. I don't remember they're names, but the Seers to the Throne worship them. Yeah, they're immortal, and obscenely powerful by ARCHMAGE standards. Worse, they're selfish enough to cut off the rest of humanity from magic, and they're ancient. That might not sound all that bad, but people in the past had a much different sense of morality. Witch hunts( which the Seers probably caused), slavery, and of course, classism. And sexism. Just a few hundred years ago, if a man slept with a married woman, he could be fined, for "damaging the husband's property". And that was a marked improvement from what came before. So yeah, people in the past, not good. People in the past so horrible other mages decided they needed to knock it off, much, much worse. Also, these mages created everything in the Abyss. It's ALL their fault. Are these the people you would trust with Phenomenal Cosmic Power?

to:

** You know who I find scarier? The guys in the Supernal Realms. I don't remember they're names, but the Seers to the Throne worship them. Yeah, they're immortal, and obscenely powerful by ARCHMAGE standards. Worse, they're selfish enough to cut off the rest of humanity from magic, and they're ancient. That might not sound all that bad, but people in the past had a much different sense of morality. Witch hunts( which the Seers probably caused), slavery, and of course, classism. And sexism. Just a few hundred years ago, if a man slept with a married woman, he could be fined, for "damaging the husband's property". And that was a marked improvement from what came before. So yeah, people in the past, not good. People in the past so horrible other mages decided they needed to knock it off, much, much worse. Also, these mages created everything in the Abyss. It's ALL their fault. Are these the people you would trust with Phenomenal Cosmic Power?Power?
*** You're thinking of the Exarchs. And it's not so much they caused those things so much as ''[[AbstractApotheosis became]]'' them-the General of Forces ''is'' the notion that MightMakesRight and the notion that violence solves everything, while the Chancellor of Matter ''is'' {{Greed}} and the devaluation of everything and every''one'' into replaceable resources and commodities. They aren't even really ''people'' any more so much as impulses shared by all the beings who live in their Supernal palaces...but they're still human ''enough'' to focus what remains of their personalities into [[GodInHumanForm ochemata]] and the Lie. The Lie, it should be noted, is not "magic doesn't exist." It's the constant, Supernal refrain of [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech the words]] the Exarchs use to clamp down on any rival to their power: "Magic may or may not exist. ''You'' don't deserve it, and ''never'' did. ''You'' are nothing before the world, it's better to hide behind our chosen elect, where it's safe. From everything but the elect, but better us than the world, which is rotten, and cruel, and frightening, and we're the only things that can and are willing to protect you, and it is ''our'' right to do whatever we want to you because of it. It's okay to live in ignorance. Ignorance dulls the pain, and all knowledge does is rob you of happiness before the end. You will obey, or you will die-''that'' is the nature of things."
16th Apr '16 6:50:00 PM DarthFanboy
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* The Janamukti philosophy is a terrifying combination of TheFundamentalist and OmnicidalManiac wielded by a full-fledged RealityWarper. They're an order of fanatics dedicated to a philosophy built on FantasticRacism, [[TheMagocracy magocrats]] who blame the Fallen state of the world entirely on Sleepers and who want to restore the Supernal world. Which they figure can be achieved if they ''wipe out civilization as we know it'', drastically cull humanity's numbers, and annihilate all non-Mage supernaturals. They want their paradise so badly they're willing to completely destroy the world as we know it in hopes that this ''might'' give it back to them. And they ''could'' do it...

to:

* The Janamukti Jnanamukti philosophy is a terrifying combination of TheFundamentalist and OmnicidalManiac wielded by a full-fledged RealityWarper. They're an order of fanatics dedicated to a philosophy built on FantasticRacism, [[TheMagocracy magocrats]] who blame the Fallen state of the world entirely on Sleepers and who want to restore the Supernal world. Which they figure can be achieved if they ''wipe out civilization as we know it'', drastically cull humanity's numbers, and annihilate all non-Mage supernaturals. They want their paradise so badly they're willing to completely destroy the world as we know it in hopes that this ''might'' give it back to them. And they ''could'' do it...
16th Apr '16 6:47:01 PM DarthFanboy
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* The Jnanamukti philosophy is a terrifying combination of TheFundamentalist and OmnicidalManiac wielded by a full-fledged RealityWarper. They're an order of fanatics dedicated to a philosophy built on FantasticRacism, [[TheMagocracy magocrats]] who blame the Fallen state of the world entirely on Sleepers and who want to restore the Supernal world. Which they figure can be achieved if they ''wipe out civilization as we know it'', drastically cull humanity's numbers, and annihilate all non-Mage supernaturals. They want their paradise so badly they're willing to completely destroy the world as we know it in hopes that this ''might'' give it back to them. And they ''could'' do it...

to:

* The Jnanamukti Janamukti philosophy is a terrifying combination of TheFundamentalist and OmnicidalManiac wielded by a full-fledged RealityWarper. They're an order of fanatics dedicated to a philosophy built on FantasticRacism, [[TheMagocracy magocrats]] who blame the Fallen state of the world entirely on Sleepers and who want to restore the Supernal world. Which they figure can be achieved if they ''wipe out civilization as we know it'', drastically cull humanity's numbers, and annihilate all non-Mage supernaturals. They want their paradise so badly they're willing to completely destroy the world as we know it in hopes that this ''might'' give it back to them. And they ''could'' do it...
26th Mar '16 7:32:42 PM baschapp
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** Making things worse is the underlying philosophies that ''Mage'' is built on; in essence, humanity ''should'' be a WitchSpecies, but the vast bulk of the species has been artificially blinded to the higher world around them. There's a subtle feeling of FantasticRacism when mages contemplate Sleepers, but looking at the difference between what both are capable of... there's a sinking feeling in the depths of your subconsciousness that mages are ''justified'' in it. Really, when one takes into account the abilities of even a moderately trained mage in contrast a Sleeper, one could quite believably justify mages believing that Sleepers ''aren't human'', they're just ''animals that look human'', and acting accordingly.

to:

** Making things worse is the underlying philosophies that ''Mage'' is built on; in essence, humanity ''should'' be a WitchSpecies, but the vast bulk of the species has been artificially blinded to the higher world around them. There's a subtle feeling of FantasticRacism when mages contemplate Sleepers, but looking at the difference between what both are capable of... there's a sinking feeling in the depths of your subconsciousness that mages are ''justified'' in it. Really, when one takes into account the abilities of even a moderately trained mage in contrast a Sleeper, one could quite believably justify mages believing that Sleepers ''aren't human'', they're just ''animals that look human'', and acting accordingly.accordingly.
** You know who I find scarier? The guys in the Supernal Realms. I don't remember they're names, but the Seers to the Throne worship them. Yeah, they're immortal, and obscenely powerful by ARCHMAGE standards. Worse, they're selfish enough to cut off the rest of humanity from magic, and they're ancient. That might not sound all that bad, but people in the past had a much different sense of morality. Witch hunts( which the Seers probably caused), slavery, and of course, classism. And sexism. Just a few hundred years ago, if a man slept with a married woman, he could be fined, for "damaging the husband's property". And that was a marked improvement from what came before. So yeah, people in the past, not good. People in the past so horrible other mages decided they needed to knock it off, much, much worse. Also, these mages created everything in the Abyss. It's ALL their fault. Are these the people you would trust with Phenomenal Cosmic Power?
18th Mar '16 5:49:58 AM KhlavKalash
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* Really, mages themselves are scary beyond reason. They ''start'' as "mere" [[RealityWarper Reality Warpers]], even at Gnosis 1, and they grow increasingly more powerful as they ascend. Archmages, although still constrained by some meaningful limitations, have gone beyond that title to the rank of PhysicalGod; for these mages, reality is so much putty they can play with as they like, even if it goes awry sometimes -- there's a passage in passing in ''Imperial Mysteries'', the Archmage splatbook, where one Archmage makes a comment implying that they made Christianity the dominant religion in Western civilization ''by accident''. They can't even enter the mortal world without risking causing ripples that could potentially unravel the world. Really, mages make a huge lie of the idea that HumansAreSpecial if you take ''Imperial Mysteries'' as canon; everything that generations {{Muggles}} have accomplished can be undone by the whim of just ''one'' Archmage. Just try to wrap your head around that kind of power...

to:

* Really, mages themselves are scary beyond reason. They ''start'' as "mere" [[RealityWarper Reality Warpers]], even at Gnosis 1, and they grow increasingly more powerful as they ascend. Archmages, although still constrained by some meaningful limitations, have gone beyond that title to the rank of PhysicalGod; for these mages, reality is so much putty they can play with as they like, even if it goes awry sometimes -- there's a passage in passing in ''Imperial Mysteries'', the Archmage splatbook, where one Archmage makes a comment implying that they made Christianity the dominant religion in Western civilization ''by accident''. They can't even enter the mortal world without risking causing ripples that could potentially unravel the world. Really, mages make a huge lie of the idea that HumansAreSpecial if you take ''Imperial Mysteries'' as canon; everything that generations of {{Muggles}} have accomplished can be undone by the whim of just ''one'' Archmage. Just try to wrap your head around that kind of power...
18th Mar '16 5:43:54 AM KhlavKalash
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** While the Blood of the Lamb is terrifying, the worst thing about him is arguably what he represents. Apparently, being a totally, batshit insane sociopath with an obsession with cannibalism is absolutely NO barrier toward the kind of self knowledge and understanding that leads to Awakening. Imagine Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Ed Gein in the world of darkness, and imagine how many serial killers have awakened and slipped through the cracks? Imagine all the people out there who aren't Scelesti and in theory are tolerated by their Consilii? Joe Beal is scary, but the fact that people like him can and probably do exist, and almost certainly have achieved some truly god-teir reality warping powers is paranoia-fuel to the max.

to:

** While the Blood of the Lamb is terrifying, the worst thing about him is arguably what he represents. Apparently, being a totally, batshit insane sociopath with an obsession with cannibalism is absolutely NO barrier toward the kind of self knowledge and understanding that leads to Awakening. Imagine Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Ed Gein in the world of darkness, and imagine how many serial killers have awakened and slipped through the cracks? Imagine all the people out there who aren't Scelesti and in theory are tolerated by their Consilii? Joe Beal is scary, but the fact that people like him can and probably do exist, and almost certainly have achieved some truly god-teir god-tier reality warping powers is paranoia-fuel to the max.
18th Mar '16 4:12:26 AM KhlavKalash
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** The Whorl, in which things stop being merely ominous and start to get ''[[RealityIsOutToLunch plain weird]]''. The completion of a specific action - walking a mile, crafting a sword, reading a book - occurs [[SlidingScaleOfTurnRealism instananeously from all external perspectives]] (including the real world), while taking the expected amount of time from the perspective of the person undertaking it - and once you've started doing something, you can't stop until it's finished. If you're not careful, you can [[TimeAbyss accidentally end up living several subjective lifespans]]. Or... [[AndIMustScream significantly longer]], if you decided to do something stupid like "walk to the astral reflection of Alpha Centauri on foot."

to:

** The Whorl, in which things stop being merely ominous and start to get ''[[RealityIsOutToLunch plain weird]]''. The completion of a specific action - walking a mile, crafting a sword, reading a book - occurs [[SlidingScaleOfTurnRealism instananeously instantaneously from all external perspectives]] (including the real world), while taking the expected amount of time from the perspective of the person undertaking it - and once you've started doing something, you can't stop until it's finished. If you're not careful, you can [[TimeAbyss accidentally end up living several subjective lifespans]]. Or... [[AndIMustScream significantly longer]], if you decided to do something stupid like "walk to the astral reflection of Alpha Centauri on foot."
18th Mar '16 3:45:03 AM KhlavKalash
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** The fate of the Hollow Ones is even worse - they were Sleepers (not Sleepwalkers, ''Sleepers'', utterly ordinary people) who were abducted by the [[PathOfInspiration Paternoster]] and thrown to the [[EldritchAbomination Custodian]], a being from the Lower Depths who ''[[FateWorseThanDeath eats individuality]].'' The... ''[[EmptyShell thing]]'' that is left over looks like a person, but is completely unable to retain memories or personality of its own without magic, and without regular infusions will rapidly degrade to a vapid husk once again. At least the Grigori can [[DyingAsYourself die knowing they're finally free]]. For the Hollow Ones, the self is...''gone.''

to:

** The fate of the Hollow Ones is even worse - they were Sleepers (not Sleepwalkers, ''Sleepers'', utterly ordinary people) who were abducted by the [[PathOfInspiration Paternoster]] and thrown to the [[EldritchAbomination Custodian]], a being from the Lower Depths who ''[[FateWorseThanDeath eats individuality]].'' The... ''[[EmptyShell thing]]'' that is left over looks like a person, but is completely unable to retain memories or personality of its own without magic, and without regular infusions will rapidly degrade to a vapid husk once again. At least the Grigori can [[DyingAsYourself die knowing they're finally free]]. For the Hollow Ones, the self is... ''gone.''
18th Mar '16 3:43:27 AM KhlavKalash
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** Grigori are the disembodied souls of Sleepwalkers, the ultimate agents of the [[BigBrotherIsWatchingYou Panopticon]]. Disembodied souls of Sleepwalkers that, it should be mentioned, are still alive...''[[AndIMustScream and completely unable to return to their bodies at all, or control their astral selves]].'' All they are now are prisoners of an ArtifactOfDoom, their living selves kept in convenient storage so the Seers are never far away from the stream of observations they are forced by it to utter, without even the solace that starvation will eventually claim them-the Artifact supplies their body's needs, no matter how much they don't want to.
** The fate of the Hollow Ones is even worse - they were Sleepers (not Sleepwalkers, ''Sleepers'', utterly ordinary people) who were abducted by the [[PathOfInspiration Paternoster]] and thrown to the [[EldritchAbomination Custodian]], a being from the Lower Depths who ''[[FateWorseThanDeath eats individuality]].'' The...''[[EmptyShell thing]]'' that is left over looks like a person, but is completely unable to retain memories or personality of its own without magic, and without regular infusions will rapidly degrade to a vapid husk once again. At least the Grigori can [[DyingAsYourself die knowing they're finally free]]. For the Hollow Ones, the self is...''gone.''

to:

** Grigori are the disembodied souls of Sleepwalkers, the ultimate agents of the [[BigBrotherIsWatchingYou Panopticon]]. Disembodied souls of Sleepwalkers that, it should be mentioned, are still alive... ''[[AndIMustScream and completely unable to return to their bodies at all, or control their astral selves]].'' All they are now are prisoners of an ArtifactOfDoom, their living selves kept in convenient storage so the Seers are never far away from the stream of observations they are forced by it to utter, without even the solace that starvation will eventually claim them-the Artifact supplies their body's needs, no matter how much they don't want to.
** The fate of the Hollow Ones is even worse - they were Sleepers (not Sleepwalkers, ''Sleepers'', utterly ordinary people) who were abducted by the [[PathOfInspiration Paternoster]] and thrown to the [[EldritchAbomination Custodian]], a being from the Lower Depths who ''[[FateWorseThanDeath eats individuality]].'' The... ''[[EmptyShell thing]]'' that is left over looks like a person, but is completely unable to retain memories or personality of its own without magic, and without regular infusions will rapidly degrade to a vapid husk once again. At least the Grigori can [[DyingAsYourself die knowing they're finally free]]. For the Hollow Ones, the self is...''gone.''
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