History Main / YourMindMakesItReal

26th May '17 12:39:43 AM Az_Tech341
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So, if you're in a dream, hallucination, or VR simulation, death can be ''plenty'' lethal. By extension, if you're a hacker in a high-tech futuristic world where {{Cyberspace}} is navigated through a realistic simulation, intrusion countermeasures can kill you dead. To be fair, certain depictions of {{Cyberspace}} require users to electronically link their brains to the network, which would provide a relatively obvious threat to incautious intruders. However, even hackers who operate in worlds without such dangers may be vulnerable to [[BrownNote seizure-inducing graphics]].

Often, fictional {{cyberspace}} ICE (intruder countermeasure electronics) is said to work by channeling lethal voltages into the brain of the invading hacker, but it seems that any techhead with even an ounce of common sense would put at least one fuse, circuit breaker or voltage regulator on any line connected directly to his brain. Presumably most users do not know about such things, given their willingness to use an interface that could turn them into a vegetable or corpse at a moment's notice. Authors who put a little more thought into the matter may come up with some variant of the [[BrownNote motif of harmful sensation]], implying there's some kind of malicious out-of-band signal which triggers a nasty (usually fatal) seizure in its victims or [[ExplosiveInstrumentation blows up their computer]].

As for the rest? Let us be very clear: there is no obvious or immediately compelling reason that dying in a dream or hallucination would actually kill you, unless you are ''really'' gullible and you live in a world where the Nocebo Effect is '''much''' more powerful than it is in real life. Obviously, magic spells can do as they like, but the only reason that you would be actually harmed by dying in a VR simulation would be if the VR simulator was intentionally and specifically designed to murder the operator. This makes sense if it's part of a DeathTrap ([[ComplexityAddiction insofar as a death trap ever makes sense]]), but usually this is some commercial, publicly available system, often with no stated purpose beyond simply ''[[WinToExit playing games]]''.

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So, if you're in a dream, hallucination, or VR simulation, death can be ''plenty'' lethal. By extension, if you're a hacker in a high-tech futuristic world where {{Cyberspace}} is navigated through a realistic simulation, intrusion countermeasures can kill you dead. To be fair, certain depictions of {{Cyberspace}} require users to electronically link their brains to the network, network electronically, which would provide a relatively obvious threat to incautious intruders. However, even hackers who operate in worlds without such dangers may be vulnerable to [[BrownNote seizure-inducing graphics]].

Often, fictional {{cyberspace}} ICE (intruder countermeasure electronics) is said to work by channeling lethal voltages into the brain of the invading hacker, but it seems that any techhead with even an ounce of common sense would put at least one fuse, circuit breaker breaker, or voltage regulator on any line connected directly to his brain. Presumably Presumably, most users do not know about such things, given their willingness to use an interface that could turn them into a vegetable or corpse at a moment's notice. Authors who put a little more thought into the matter may come up with some variant of the [[BrownNote motif of harmful sensation]], implying there's some kind of malicious out-of-band signal which triggers a nasty (usually fatal) seizure in its victims or [[ExplosiveInstrumentation blows up their computer]].

As for the rest? Let us be very clear: there is no obvious or immediately compelling reason that dying in a dream or hallucination would actually kill you, unless you are ''really'' gullible and you live in a world where the Nocebo Effect is '''much''' more powerful than it is in real life. Obviously, magic spells can do as they like, but the only reason that you would be actually harmed by dying in a VR simulation would be if the VR simulator was intentionally and specifically designed to murder the operator. This makes sense if it's part of a DeathTrap ([[ComplexityAddiction insofar as a death trap ever makes sense]]), but usually this is some commercial, publicly available publicly-available system, often with no stated purpose beyond simply ''[[WinToExit playing games]]''.



An increasingly common justification of this trope is {{Synchronization}}; directly wiring your brain to the machine gives you {{Technopath}}ic PowerAtAPrice of a potentially fried brain. Most CyberPunk games -- such as ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' -- use this justification, and lampshade it with alternative safer but far-less effective interfaces which someone risking a BrainComputerInterface can [[CurbStompBattle destroy with ease]].

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An increasingly common justification of this trope is {{Synchronization}}; directly wiring your brain to the machine gives you {{Technopath}}ic PowerAtAPrice of a potentially fried potentially-fried brain. Most CyberPunk games -- such as ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' -- use this justification, and lampshade [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]] it with alternative safer but far-less effective interfaces which someone risking a BrainComputerInterface can [[CurbStompBattle destroy with ease]].



Frequently pops up in a HolodeckMalfunction. The defining feature of TheMostDangerousVideoGame. When your mind actually changes the physical world, it's ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve, or the much darker RealityWarpingIsNotAToy. Forget [[ThoughtAversionFailure telling yourself not to think about the things you see]] -- for it will become real here. If a computer generated or magical illusion changes the physical world, it's HardLight. When you're trapped in a virtual world, and have to win or die, its WinToExit. For instances where getting killed in a dream actually ''can'' kill you for real, see NeverSleepAgain.

Compare PuffOfLogic, MagicFeather. Contrast with VisibleToBelievers. See also SelfInflictedHell.

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Frequently pops up in a HolodeckMalfunction. The defining feature of TheMostDangerousVideoGame. When your mind actually changes the physical world, it's ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve, or the much darker RealityWarpingIsNotAToy. Forget [[ThoughtAversionFailure telling yourself not to think about the things you see]] -- for it will become real here. If a computer generated or magical illusion changes the physical world, it's HardLight. When you're trapped in a virtual world, and have to win or die, its it's WinToExit. For instances where getting killed in a dream actually ''can'' kill you for real, see NeverSleepAgain.

Compare PuffOfLogic, PuffOfLogic and MagicFeather. Contrast with VisibleToBelievers. See also SelfInflictedHell.
24th May '17 12:03:48 PM Theriocephalus
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** ''Discworld/{{Pyramids}}'' has a particularly extreme example of this. The narration notes that belief is not actually that strong a force compared to things like gravity and electromagnetism, meaning that the various myths the people of Djelbeybi believe in -- that their king makes the sun rise, that being mummified grants eternal life, that all of their myriad animal-headed gods are real even when their existences are mutually contradictory -- do not normally get enough belief to actually manifest. When the kingdom of Djelbeybi is cut off from the rest of the universe, however, belief becomes the only significant force in play, allowing everything the Djelbeybians believe in to become suddenly manifest and real, with results like the land being swarmed by mummified ancestors pissed at having spent millennia stuck under pyramids and the day and night cycle becoming a farce as dozens of sun and night gods fight over who gets to raise, move and lower the sun.
24th May '17 12:02:33 PM Theriocephalus
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** Susan uses this trope to its maximum effect, developing her wards' belief in a poker she uses to beat up the monsters that hide under the bed, rather than telling them these monsters don't exist. That is, while she realizes nothing will make them stop believing in monsters, it's much easier to make them believe she's enough of a badass to take them.

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** Susan uses this trope to its maximum effect, developing her wards' belief in a poker she uses to beat up the monsters that hide under the bed, rather than telling them these monsters don't exist. That is, while she realizes nothing will make them stop believing in monsters, it's much easier to make them believe she's enough of a badass to take them.them on.


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** ''Discworld/{{Pyramids}}'' has a particularly extreme example of this. The narration notes that belief is not actually that strong a force compared to things like gravity and electromagnetism, meaning that the various myths the people of Djelbeybi believe in -- that their king makes the sun rise, that being mummified grants eternal life, that all of their myriad animal-headed gods are real even when their existences are mutually contradictory -- do not normally get enough belief to actually manifest. When the kingdom of Djelbeybi is cut off from the rest of the universe, however, belief becomes the only significant force in play, allowing everything the Djelbeybians believe in to become suddenly manifest and real, with results like the land being swarmed by mummified ancestors pissed at having spent millennia stuck under pyramids and the day and night cycle becoming a farce as dozens of sun and night gods fight over who gets to raise, move and lower the sun.
24th May '17 9:50:02 AM Theriocephalus
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Often, fictional {{cyberspace}} ICE (intruder countermeasure electronics) is said to work by channeling lethal voltages into the brain of the invading hacker, but it seems that any techhead with even an ounce of common sense would put at least one fuse, circuit breaker or voltage regulator, on any line connected directly to his brain. Presumably most users do not know about such things, given their willingness to use an interface that could turn them into a vegetable or corpse at a moment's notice. Authors who put a little more thought into the matter may come up with some variant of the [[BrownNote motif of harmful sensation]], implying there's some kind of malicious out-of-band signal which triggers a nasty (usually fatal) seizure in its victims or [[ExplosiveInstrumentation blows up their computer]].

to:

Often, fictional {{cyberspace}} ICE (intruder countermeasure electronics) is said to work by channeling lethal voltages into the brain of the invading hacker, but it seems that any techhead with even an ounce of common sense would put at least one fuse, circuit breaker or voltage regulator, regulator on any line connected directly to his brain. Presumably most users do not know about such things, given their willingness to use an interface that could turn them into a vegetable or corpse at a moment's notice. Authors who put a little more thought into the matter may come up with some variant of the [[BrownNote motif of harmful sensation]], implying there's some kind of malicious out-of-band signal which triggers a nasty (usually fatal) seizure in its victims or [[ExplosiveInstrumentation blows up their computer]].



* An episode of ''Series/TheFortyFourHundred'' features all of the main characters being trapped in a shared dream where they had to escape from a building that was trying to kill them. This trope is brought up in that the characters don't know whether it's going to be subverted or played straight. It's [[spoiler:subverted; after Shawn is killed by an exploding window and Meghan is electrocuted, both wake up fine at the same time that the others are released.]]

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* An episode of ''Series/TheFortyFourHundred'' features all of the main characters being trapped in a shared dream where they had to escape from a building that was trying to kill them. This trope is brought up in that the characters don't know whether it's going to be subverted or played straight. It's [[spoiler:subverted; after Shawn is killed by an exploding window and Meghan is electrocuted, both wake up fine at the same time that the others are released.]]released]].



-->"Allergies are all in the mind, Lemon. I used to have a wicked peanut allergy, and now...witness. [''Pops a peanut into his mouth from a bowl on his desk.'']"

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-->"Allergies are all in the mind, Lemon. I used to have a wicked peanut allergy, and now... witness. [''Pops a peanut into his mouth from a bowl on his desk.'']"



** Some Phantasm spells, such as ''Phantasmal Killer'' and ''Weird'', make you save or die upon failing the roll to disbelieve, doing nasty damage even on success. Annoyingly, ''Death Ward'', which protects against other spells that make you save or die, won't protect you against this because it's an illusion based on fear.
*** Probably because ''Death Ward'' protects only against direct, external magical energies that cause death while these illusions essentially rely on tricking the target into killing itself.

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** Some Phantasm spells, such as ''Phantasmal Killer'' and ''Weird'', make you save or die upon failing the roll to disbelieve, doing nasty damage even on success. Annoyingly, ''Death Ward'', which protects against other spells that make you save or die, won't protect you against this because it's an illusion based on fear.
*** Probably because
fear, since ''Death Ward'' protects only against direct, external magical energies that cause death death, while these illusions essentially rely on tricking the target into killing itself.



** The psionic powers "Recall Agony" and "Recall Death" cause the target to see into the future - specifically, to witness a possible future in which the target dies horribly. This can cause the target to die horribly.

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** The psionic powers "Recall Agony" and "Recall Death" cause the target to see into the future - -- specifically, to witness a possible future in which the target dies horribly. This can cause the target to die horribly.



* ''Continuum - Roleplaying in the Yet''. When two characters meet while Dreaming any combat between them is usually harmless - any character who is knocked unconscious or killed just wakes up. However, if one or both of the dreamers uses Telepathy during the combat the damage inflicted is real and can result in nerve damage (and paralysis when the victim awakens) or death.
* The Warp in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer40000}}'' is made up of the thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and feelings of ''everything''. It's said that every strong emotion forms a daemon in the Warp, and daemons who are strong enough can join TheLegionsOfHell to attack realspace. Enough belief can actually bleed over into reality and [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve start changing things]] -- the Orks use this [[AchievementsInIgnorance to amazing effect]]. Lastly, [[MagicByAnyOtherName psykers]] can astral project themselves either deep into the Warp to predict the future or into the shallows to spy on reality; getting attacked by daemons in this state will most certainly kill you in the most painful ways the mortal soul can imagine (as well as [[FateWorseThanDeath several ways that it can't]]).

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* ''Continuum - -- Roleplaying in the Yet''. When two characters meet while Dreaming any combat between them is usually harmless - any character who is knocked unconscious or killed just wakes up. However, if one or both of the dreamers uses Telepathy during the combat the damage inflicted is real and can result in nerve damage (and paralysis when the victim awakens) or death.
* The Warp in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer40000}}'' ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'' is made up of the thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and feelings of ''everything''. It's said that every strong emotion forms a daemon in the Warp, and daemons who are strong enough can join TheLegionsOfHell to attack realspace. Enough belief can actually bleed over into reality and [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve start changing things]] -- the Orks use this [[AchievementsInIgnorance to amazing effect]]. Lastly, [[MagicByAnyOtherName psykers]] can astral project themselves either deep into the Warp to predict the future or into the shallows to spy on reality; getting attacked by daemons in this state will most certainly kill you in the most painful ways the mortal soul can imagine (as well as [[FateWorseThanDeath several ways that it can't]]).



* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', you and your friends carry model guns that do nothing in reality. But because of the nature of the Palaces, they become real guns with live ammunition, able to inflict damage on the Shadows.

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', ''VideoGame/Persona5'', you and your friends carry model guns that do nothing in reality. But because of the nature of the Palaces, they become real guns with live ammunition, able to inflict damage on the Shadows.



* ''Wiki/SCPFoundation''

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* ''Wiki/SCPFoundation''''Wiki/SCPFoundation'':
13th Apr '17 6:21:19 PM nombretomado
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* [[TheSlenderManMythos In the Slender Man fic]] ''Fanfic/ByTheFiresLight'', the Slender Man wouldn't even exist if [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve people didn't believe in it.]] This is unfortunate for people who ends up on the wrong side of its [[CombatTentacles tendrils]] whether in waking or dreaming life.

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* [[TheSlenderManMythos [[Franchise/TheSlenderManMythos In the Slender Man fic]] ''Fanfic/ByTheFiresLight'', the Slender Man wouldn't even exist if [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve people didn't believe in it.]] This is unfortunate for people who ends up on the wrong side of its [[CombatTentacles tendrils]] whether in waking or dreaming life.



* [[TheSlenderManMythos The Slender Man]] is theorized to have been created by this, coupled with lots of stories so the universe can fit him into history. Some people have recently begun to theorize, mostly because of the Slender Man stabbing incidents coupled with unusual occurrences in their general area (i.e. Children playing outside in the middle of the night) that [[OhCrap this]] [[NiceJobBreakingItHero theory]] [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve was]] ''[[RealAfterAll correct.]]''

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* [[TheSlenderManMythos [[Franchise/TheSlenderManMythos The Slender Man]] is theorized to have been created by this, coupled with lots of stories so the universe can fit him into history. Some people have recently begun to theorize, mostly because of the Slender Man stabbing incidents coupled with unusual occurrences in their general area (i.e. Children playing outside in the middle of the night) that [[OhCrap this]] [[NiceJobBreakingItHero theory]] [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve was]] ''[[RealAfterAll correct.]]''
12th Apr '17 5:43:16 AM ChronoLegion
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* Creator/AndreyLivadny's ''Literature/PhantomServer'' trilogy has an avid VR gamer named Xander get bored with all the mainstream games out there and find out about this bleeding edge game called ''[[TitleDrop Phantom Server]]'' that's still in alpha testing. He pays an exorbitant sum to an acquaintance of his to sign him up for the game. However, playing the game requires an implant that allows the simulation to be extremely realistic. Luckily for Xander, he had a similar experimental implant put in him a few years ago in his thirst for greater realism in games. After logging into the ''Phantom Server'', he finds out that the game might as well be RealLife, if real life had players in a remote, hostile star system with dangerous enemies. Any pain Xander's character experiences, Xander feels too, thanks to the implant. In addition, certain locations or states automatically disable the logout button, so he can't even cut the connection if things get too hot to handle. Now, the company developing the game makes sure that every player's physical body is plugged into a life support system, so they can't starve or die of thirst. Still, Xander starts finding bodies of people he initially assumes to be [=NPCs=], except they don't [[EverythingFades fade]] and actually undergo a realistic decomposition process. He realizes that the sheer realism of the game, coupled with the pain might very well result in player deaths. He recalls his acquaintance telling him that many gamers went into the game, but few came out. Back then, Xander dismissed the warning, assuming the game was simply so cool that no one wanted to leave. Now he relializes people may have been actually dying in the game. There's also the very real threat of going insane, especially in certain locations that continually kill and respawn players, only to kill them (very painfully) mere minutes (or even seconds) later.

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* Creator/AndreyLivadny's ''Literature/PhantomServer'' trilogy has an avid VR gamer named Xander get bored with all the mainstream games out there and find out about this bleeding edge game called ''[[TitleDrop Phantom Server]]'' that's still in alpha testing. He pays an exorbitant sum to an acquaintance of his to sign him up for the game. However, playing the game requires an implant that allows the simulation to be extremely realistic. Luckily for Xander, he had a similar experimental implant put in him a few years ago in his thirst for greater realism in games. After logging into the ''Phantom Server'', he finds out that the game might as well be RealLife, if real life had players in a remote, hostile star system with dangerous enemies. Any pain Xander's character experiences, Xander feels too, thanks to the implant. In addition, certain locations or states automatically disable the logout button, so he can't even cut the connection if things get too hot to handle. Now, the company developing the game makes sure that every player's physical body is plugged into a life support system, so they can't starve or die of thirst. Still, Xander starts finding bodies of people he initially assumes to be [=NPCs=], except they don't [[EverythingFades fade]] and actually undergo a realistic decomposition process. He realizes that the sheer realism of the game, coupled with the pain might very well result in player deaths. He recalls his acquaintance telling him that many gamers went into the game, but few came out. Back then, Xander dismissed the warning, assuming the game was simply so cool that no one wanted to leave. Now he relializes realizes people may have been actually dying in the game. There's also the very real threat of going insane, especially in certain locations that continually kill and respawn players, only to kill them (very painfully) mere minutes (or even seconds) later. [[spoiler:Then alpha testing ends, and the developers decide to remove any testers, who are still alive and sane (i.e. haven't turned into [=NPCs=]), as witnesses]].
11th Apr '17 7:38:00 AM ChronoLegion
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Added DiffLines:

* Creator/AndreyLivadny's ''Literature/PhantomServer'' trilogy has an avid VR gamer named Xander get bored with all the mainstream games out there and find out about this bleeding edge game called ''[[TitleDrop Phantom Server]]'' that's still in alpha testing. He pays an exorbitant sum to an acquaintance of his to sign him up for the game. However, playing the game requires an implant that allows the simulation to be extremely realistic. Luckily for Xander, he had a similar experimental implant put in him a few years ago in his thirst for greater realism in games. After logging into the ''Phantom Server'', he finds out that the game might as well be RealLife, if real life had players in a remote, hostile star system with dangerous enemies. Any pain Xander's character experiences, Xander feels too, thanks to the implant. In addition, certain locations or states automatically disable the logout button, so he can't even cut the connection if things get too hot to handle. Now, the company developing the game makes sure that every player's physical body is plugged into a life support system, so they can't starve or die of thirst. Still, Xander starts finding bodies of people he initially assumes to be [=NPCs=], except they don't [[EverythingFades fade]] and actually undergo a realistic decomposition process. He realizes that the sheer realism of the game, coupled with the pain might very well result in player deaths. He recalls his acquaintance telling him that many gamers went into the game, but few came out. Back then, Xander dismissed the warning, assuming the game was simply so cool that no one wanted to leave. Now he relializes people may have been actually dying in the game. There's also the very real threat of going insane, especially in certain locations that continually kill and respawn players, only to kill them (very painfully) mere minutes (or even seconds) later.
11th Apr '17 7:28:20 AM ChronoLegion
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* Russian cyberpunk literary classic ''Labyrinth of Reflections'' by Creator/SergeyLukyanenko used a massive VR world... based on ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}''. Considering the state of the nigh-post-Soviet information network in 1991, that makes some sense.... The trick was a hypnosis program of sorts known as Deep that put the user in a trance-like state; the relatively limited visuals they were given were filled in by the brain's natural ability to add extra data (akin to limited side effects of sensory deprivation) and an immersive world was created. The trick was a very small, professional group of "Divers" who could bring themselves out of the trance-state at will, and interface with the system as it actually existed. Also there has been made a certain virus in the Deep that actually kills the users. And one that traps divers.

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* Russian cyberpunk literary classic ''Labyrinth of Reflections'' ''Literature/LabyrinthOfReflections'' by Creator/SergeyLukyanenko used a massive VR world... based on ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}''. Considering the state of the nigh-post-Soviet information network in 1991, that makes some sense.... The trick was a hypnosis program of sorts known as Deep that put the user in a trance-like state; the relatively limited visuals they were given were filled in by the brain's natural ability to add extra data (akin to limited side effects of sensory deprivation) and an immersive world was created. The trick was a very small, professional group of "Divers" who could bring themselves out of the trance-state at will, and interface with the system as it actually existed. Also there has been made a certain virus in the Deep that actually kills the users. And one that traps divers.
10th Apr '17 5:52:23 PM nombretomado
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* Russian cyberpunk literary classic ''Labyrinth of Reflections'' by SergeyLukyanenko used a massive VR world... based on ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}''. Considering the state of the nigh-post-Soviet information network in 1991, that makes some sense.... The trick was a hypnosis program of sorts known as Deep that put the user in a trance-like state; the relatively limited visuals they were given were filled in by the brain's natural ability to add extra data (akin to limited side effects of sensory deprivation) and an immersive world was created. The trick was a very small, professional group of "Divers" who could bring themselves out of the trance-state at will, and interface with the system as it actually existed. Also there has been made a certain virus in the Deep that actually kills the users. And one that traps divers.

to:

* Russian cyberpunk literary classic ''Labyrinth of Reflections'' by SergeyLukyanenko Creator/SergeyLukyanenko used a massive VR world... based on ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}''. Considering the state of the nigh-post-Soviet information network in 1991, that makes some sense.... The trick was a hypnosis program of sorts known as Deep that put the user in a trance-like state; the relatively limited visuals they were given were filled in by the brain's natural ability to add extra data (akin to limited side effects of sensory deprivation) and an immersive world was created. The trick was a very small, professional group of "Divers" who could bring themselves out of the trance-state at will, and interface with the system as it actually existed. Also there has been made a certain virus in the Deep that actually kills the users. And one that traps divers.
6th Apr '17 8:09:35 AM Usyra
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'', you and your friends carry model guns that do nothing in reality. But because of the nature of the Palaces, they become real guns with live ammunition, able to inflict damage on the Shadows.
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