History Main / WithUsOrAgainstUs

9th Sep '16 5:28:28 AM erforce
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* In ''Film/BenHur'', this mentality is what drove Messala to sentence Judah Ben-Hur to slavery. Messala wanted his friend Ben-Hur to turn in the Jews who were speaking against him and the Roman occupation. Ben-Hur refuses, so Messala tells him, "You're either with me or you're against me." Ben-Hur replies, "If those are my choices, then I am against you."

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* In ''Film/BenHur'', ''Film/BenHur1959'', this mentality is what drove Messala to sentence Judah Ben-Hur to slavery. Messala wanted his friend Ben-Hur to turn in the Jews who were speaking against him and the Roman occupation. Ben-Hur refuses, so Messala tells him, "You're either with me or you're against me." Ben-Hur replies, "If those are my choices, then I am against you."
31st Aug '16 11:42:24 PM BroTim11
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* Literature/TheBible: PlayingWithATrope. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is against Him because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist.

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* Literature/TheBible: PlayingWithATrope. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is against Him because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist. This is distinct from salvation, which only comes through accepting Jesus', including His Divinity, sacrifice and resurrection, in faith.
31st Aug '16 11:38:59 PM BroTim11
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TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

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TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious (or anti-religious) MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.
22nd Aug '16 4:05:19 PM nombretomado
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* ''TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':

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* ''TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':
18th Aug '16 10:58:49 AM Scorntex
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* ''ComicBook/Ultimates2015:'' During the ''Civil War II'' tie-in, an increasingly driven Carol Danvers begins saying this to the team. She doesn't get beyond "or" before America decides to declare herself against Carol, via the medium of a chair to the head.

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* ''ComicBook/Ultimates2015:'' ''ComicBook/TheUltimates2015:'' During the ''Civil War II'' tie-in, an increasingly driven Carol Danvers begins saying this to the team. She doesn't get beyond "or" before America decides to declare herself against Carol, via the medium of a chair to the head.
18th Aug '16 10:56:31 AM Scorntex
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Added DiffLines:

* ''ComicBook/Ultimates2015:'' During the ''Civil War II'' tie-in, an increasingly driven Carol Danvers begins saying this to the team. She doesn't get beyond "or" before America decides to declare herself against Carol, via the medium of a chair to the head.
14th Aug '16 12:27:12 PM nombretomado
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* Something of a {{Zig Zagged Trope}} in the {{Divine Comedy}} by Dante Alighieri. Illustrated in the form of this quote.

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* Something of a {{Zig Zagged Trope}} ZigZaggedTrope in the {{Divine Comedy}} ''Literature/TheDivineComedy'' by Dante Alighieri. Illustrated in the form of this quote.



** Considering what happened to him ({{The Other Wiki}} has a lot of information on that), this view becomes [[Main/ItMakesSenseInContext understandable in hindsight.]]

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** Considering what happened to him ({{The Other Wiki}} (TheOtherWiki has a lot of information on that), this view becomes [[Main/ItMakesSenseInContext [[ItMakesSenseInContext understandable in hindsight.]]
10th Aug '16 9:09:17 PM nombretomado
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* Invoked by both sides near the end of ''[[{{Deryni}} Deryni Checkmate]]'', during the acrimonious Interdict debate in the Curia which began the schism in the Gwyneddian Church. At one point, Cardiel addresses a couple of junior bishops: "Siward? Gilbert? Do you stand with us? Or with Loris?" Loris finally hangs the lampshade when Cardiel (host of the assembly in Dhassa) orders him to leave: "Then it is war. All who side with the enemy shall be counted as the enemy. There can be no other alternative."

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* Invoked by both sides near the end of ''[[{{Deryni}} ''[[Literature/{{Deryni}} Deryni Checkmate]]'', during the acrimonious Interdict debate in the Curia which began the schism in the Gwyneddian Church. At one point, Cardiel addresses a couple of junior bishops: "Siward? Gilbert? Do you stand with us? Or with Loris?" Loris finally hangs the lampshade when Cardiel (host of the assembly in Dhassa) orders him to leave: "Then it is war. All who side with the enemy shall be counted as the enemy. There can be no other alternative."
11th Jun '16 4:20:16 PM nombretomado
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* In the ''SwordOfTruth'' series, one of the explicitly stated {{Aesop}}s is that our lives are our own, and we should do with them as we choose. Not a horribly warped lesson, right? Yet Goodkind turns this into a BrokenAesop with parts of the rest of the books that claim the only "real" choice for our lives is to fall in line with his views, and that any other choice just makes you as wrong than the bad guys. Even if people have been lied to all their lives, like the Hakens in ''Soul of the Fire'', they either side with Richard, or they have crossed the MoralEventHorizon, and should die like the evil swine they are.

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* In the ''SwordOfTruth'' ''Literature/SwordOfTruth'' series, one of the explicitly stated {{Aesop}}s is that our lives are our own, and we should do with them as we choose. Not a horribly warped lesson, right? Yet Goodkind turns this into a BrokenAesop with parts of the rest of the books that claim the only "real" choice for our lives is to fall in line with his views, and that any other choice just makes you as wrong than the bad guys. Even if people have been lied to all their lives, like the Hakens in ''Soul of the Fire'', they either side with Richard, or they have crossed the MoralEventHorizon, and should die like the evil swine they are.
28th May '16 4:53:37 AM justanid
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In a nutshell, this is a form of extremism that does acknowledge that there's a [[GreyAndGrayMorality gray]] area between {{black and white|Morality}}, but that everything that isn't white is ''still'' as bad as black. A SubTrope of FalseDichotomy.

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In a nutshell, this is a form of extremism that does acknowledge that there's a [[GreyAndGrayMorality gray]] area between {{black and white|Morality}}, but that everything that isn't white is ''still'' as bad as black. A SubTrope of FalseDichotomy.
black.



TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.



TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

See also BlackAndWhiteInsanity, ActivistFundamentalistAntics, and WeAreStrugglingTogether. This may lead to NeutralityBacklash.

[[noreallife]]

to:

TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part SubTrope of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

FalseDichotomy.

See also BlackAndWhiteInsanity, ActivistFundamentalistAntics, and WeAreStrugglingTogether. This may May lead to NeutralityBacklash.

[[noreallife]][[noreallife]] %% No Real Life Examples, please. %%
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