History Main / WithUsOrAgainstUs

19th Sep '17 10:12:43 AM Necrodomo
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* Namm, the angelic god of justice from the ''VideoGame/NexusWar'' series, is so absorbed with the necessity of his war with the ManipulativeBastard demon lord Tlacolotl that he considers anyone not as dedicated to the war as he is to be a real or potential enemy. Casualties of this so far include mortals who haven't become angels fast enough, anyone who tries to sit the war out, angels who don't have perfect scores on the KarmaMeter, and [[spoiler:Azazel, another angelic deity]] who Namm didn't think was supporting him enough. Namm's attitude is the main [[DarkMessiah recruitment]] method for Tlacolotl, yet at the same time Tlacolotl really ''is'' enough of a threat to the universe that it's not clear whether Namm is actually wrong or not.
17th Jul '17 5:27:59 PM TheGreenHerring
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* In ''Film/MagnumForce'', the [[DirtyCop renegade cops]], whose idea of justice is premeditated murder of the accused, try to use this to make CowboyCop [[Film/DirtyHarry Harry Callahan]] join them: "Either you're for us, or you're against us."
--> '''Harry:''' I'm afraid you've misjudged me.
10th Jul '17 4:34:58 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'': The BigBad Loghain's game-long paranoia regarding Orlais ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval France]]), and his conviction that they're using the [[WorldWreckingWave the Blight]] as a smokescreen to send in Grey Warden spies to infiltrate and retake Ferelden ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval England]]) from within, becomes so intense by the end-game that he's ''convinced'' that you're either with him and thus the nation's continued freedom, or you're against Ferelden's independence and are an Orlesian spy/sympathizer.
* In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'', tensions between the mages and the templars in Kirkwall reach a peak when [[spoiler:Anders blows up the Chantry]] that Hawke is forced to either side with the mages and protect them from the Templars or side with the Templars and exterminate the mages.
** By Act III, Meredith is so paranoid that she believes that anyone who disagrees with her is a blood mage's slave. She refuses to acknowledge the possibility that her fellow Templars might disagree with her entirely of their own free will. You're either with her, or with the blood mages. [[spoiler:This gets even more pronounced when she whips out her lyrium idol sword, which was the cause of Bartrand's insanity and also what pushes her to the edge.]]
** [[spoiler: By the end of the game, Anders has deteriorated to the point that anybody who does not explicitly share his exact opinions on mage freedom fighting is just as bad as an enemy. It's difficult to say how much of this is from Anders himself and how much comes from [[EnemyWithin Vengeance]].]]
* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'': Sera claims to [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture's]] "us against them" attitude toward humans, yet ironically holds this view between nobles and commoners, and "elfy elves" verses everyone else. It also comes to a head in her romance with a [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]], as [[spoiler:she'll force you to choose between your elfy beliefs or the relationship]].

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* ''Franchise/DragonAge'':
**
''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'': The BigBad Loghain's game-long paranoia regarding Orlais ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval France]]), and his conviction that they're using the [[WorldWreckingWave the Blight]] as a smokescreen to send in Grey Warden spies to infiltrate and retake Ferelden ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval England]]) from within, becomes so intense by the end-game that he's ''convinced'' that you're either with him and thus the nation's continued freedom, or you're against Ferelden's independence and are an Orlesian spy/sympathizer.
* ** In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'', tensions between the mages and the templars in Kirkwall reach a peak when [[spoiler:Anders blows up the Chantry]] that Hawke is forced to either side with the mages and protect them from the Templars or side with the Templars and exterminate the mages.
** *** By Act III, Meredith is so paranoid that she believes that anyone who disagrees with her is a blood mage's slave. She refuses to acknowledge the possibility that her fellow Templars might disagree with her entirely of their own free will. You're either with her, or with the blood mages. [[spoiler:This gets even more pronounced when she whips out her lyrium idol sword, which was the cause of Bartrand's insanity and also what pushes her to the edge.]]
** *** [[spoiler: By the end of the game, Anders has deteriorated to the point that anybody who does not explicitly share his exact opinions on mage freedom fighting is just as bad as an enemy. It's difficult to say how much of this is from Anders himself and how much comes from [[EnemyWithin Vengeance]].]]
* ** ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'': Sera claims to [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture's]] "us against them" attitude toward humans, yet ironically holds this view between nobles and commoners, and "elfy elves" verses everyone else. It also comes to a head in her romance with a [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]], as [[spoiler:she'll force you to choose between your elfy beliefs or the relationship]].
8th Jul '17 6:43:33 PM nombretomado
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TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious (or anti-religious) MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

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TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious (or anti-religious) MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.



** Considering what happened to him (TheOtherWiki has a lot of information on that), this view becomes [[ItMakesSenseInContext understandable in hindsight.]]

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** Considering what happened to him (TheOtherWiki (Wiki/TheOtherWiki has a lot of information on that), this view becomes [[ItMakesSenseInContext understandable in hindsight.]]
3rd Jul '17 2:31:19 AM Nintendoman01
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* ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'': During the Future Trunks Saga, this is the reason [[spoiler:Goku Black and Future Zamasu [[KillTheGod killed all the gods]] in Future Trunks' timeline. As Black explains, he knew that none of the other gods would ever support or understand his plans or ideals, so they had to die to prevent them from trying to stop him.]]
22nd Apr '17 12:11:34 PM DeathorCake
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** Pretty much the exact opposite situation occurred with the Forge World of Xana II. While a hive of scum and villainy by Forge World standards, they decided to stay neutral during the Heresy as they already had significant territory and stood to gain little. The Warmaster secured their support with promises of relics and freedom of research, and they promised him [[WaveMotionGun Ordinatus Minoris Engines]] in return. The Loyalists attacked just as the handover began, and although they succeeded in destroying or capturing all three Ordinatii, the assault both got their Navy Battlegroup shot to hell by the Xanatite defense fleet and broke open the high-security prison of Anacharis Scoria, Dark Archmagos. Taking command of the defence with his personal force of [[MadScientist enhanced combat robots]] he annihilated over half of the [[SpaceMarine Astartes]] assault force and committed the planet firmly to the Traitor cause, where it has supplied the Traitor Legions for over ten thousand years. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Good job, Dark Angels]].
18th Apr '17 12:46:17 PM BeerBaron
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--> '''Balgruuf (paraphrased)''': To not fight with him is to side against him!

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--> ----> '''Balgruuf (paraphrased)''': To "To not fight with him is to side against him!him!"



--> [[spoiler:'''Delphine''']]: It's your choice Dragonborn: us or him.

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--> ----> [[spoiler:'''Delphine''']]: It's "It's your choice Dragonborn: us or him."
18th Apr '17 12:45:01 PM BeerBaron
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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':
** Ulfric Stormcloak is like this. In the words of Jarl Balgruuf:

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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':
''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', Balmora Mages Guild Stewardess Ranis Athrys has this attitude toward any mages who do not join the Mages Guild. Several of the quests she gives involve convincing these outsider mages to join the Guild, and in most cases, [[JoinOrDie killing the mage]] in question is an acceptable quest resolution to her.
** ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'':
***
Ulfric Stormcloak is like this. In the words of Jarl Balgruuf:



** Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun is desperate to try remain neutral in the conflict. When first asked what side he supports, he replies "[[TakeAThirdOption Whiterun's]]". He eventually is [[NeutralNoLonger forced to choose]], however and lends his support to the Empire.
** After a certain point in the main quest [[spoiler: the Blades discover that the Dragonborn has been working with Paarthurnax, who is a dragon and the former right hand of [[BigBad Alduin]], and they refuse to cooperate with him any further unless he kills Paarthurnax for his past crimes against mankind. The player doesn't have to do this to finish the main quest, but the Blades cannot be convinced to let their grudge go.]]

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** *** Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun is desperate to try remain neutral in the conflict. When first asked what side he supports, he replies "[[TakeAThirdOption Whiterun's]]". He eventually is [[NeutralNoLonger forced to choose]], however and lends his support to the Empire.
** *** After a certain point in the main quest [[spoiler: the Blades discover that the Dragonborn has been working with Paarthurnax, who is a dragon and the former right hand of [[BigBad Alduin]], and they refuse to cooperate with him any further unless he kills Paarthurnax for his past crimes against mankind. The player doesn't have to do this to finish the main quest, but the Blades cannot be convinced to let their grudge go.]]
12th Mar '17 8:41:25 PM JackG
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones''. Queen Cersei Lannister tells her son Joffrey that "Everyone who isn't us is the enemy." This is all very well when House Lannister is the most powerful and wealthy family in the Seven Kingdoms, but after years of war drain their resources they make an alliance with House Tyrell. Cersei fails to understand the necessity for power-sharing, and her efforts to undermine the Tyrells instead of working with them cause disaster for everyone.
6th Mar '17 9:05:29 PM Give1Take2
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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'': The BigBad Loghain's game-long paranoia regarding Orlais ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval France]]), and his conviction that they're using the [[WorldWreckingWave the Blight]] as a smokescreen to send in Grey Warden spies to infiltrate and retake Ferelden ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval England]]) from within, becomes so intense by the end-game that he's ''convinced'' that you're either with him and thus the nation's continued freedom, or you're against Ferelden's independence and are an Orlesian spy/sympathizer.



* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition''
** Sera [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture]] because she dislikes their "us against them" attitude regarding humans and other non-elves, yet she herself holds similar views regarding "big, important people" and the poor, common folk. Basically, you're either one of the poor common folk, or you're one of the "big, important people." If you're one of the "big people," you'd better implicitly support the common folk or you're an enemy who deserves an arrow or [[PokeThePoodle pie]] to the face.
** Sera also presents this ultimatum if she's in a romance with a Dalish Inquisitior: [[spoiler: After the Temple of Mythal, you have to agree with her that (your) Elvhen religion is a lie, elven culture is stupid and elven history should be forgotten, or she'll break up with you. You cannot retain your religion/culture and remain with her; you either have to be "with her" that it's all stupid, or you're "against her" and get dumped]].

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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition''
**
''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'': Sera claims to [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture]] because she dislikes their culture's]] "us against them" attitude regarding humans and other non-elves, toward humans, yet she herself ironically holds similar views regarding "big, important people" this view between nobles and the poor, common folk. Basically, you're either one of the poor common folk, or you're one of the "big, important people." If you're one of the "big people," you'd better implicitly support the common folk or you're an enemy who deserves an arrow or [[PokeThePoodle pie]] to the face.
** Sera
commoners, and "elfy elves" verses everyone else. It also presents this ultimatum if she's comes to a head in a her romance with a Dalish Inquisitior: [[spoiler: After the Temple of Mythal, [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]], as [[spoiler:she'll force you have to agree with her that (your) Elvhen religion is a lie, elven culture is stupid and elven history should be forgotten, or she'll break up with you. You cannot retain choose between your religion/culture and remain with her; you either have to be "with her" that it's all stupid, elfy beliefs or you're "against her" and get dumped]].the relationship]].
-->'''Sera:''' Take your elves. I'm just people.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WithUsOrAgainstUs