History Main / WithUsOrAgainstUs

22nd Apr '17 12:11:34 PM DeathorCake
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** Pretty much the exact opposite situation occurred with the Forge World of Xana II. While a hive of scum and villainy by Forge World standards, they decided to stay neutral during the Heresy as they already had significant territory and stood to gain little. The Warmaster secured their support with promises of relics and freedom of research, and they promised him [[WaveMotionGun Ordinatus Minoris Engines]] in return. The Loyalists attacked just as the handover began, and although they succeeded in destroying or capturing all three Ordinatii, the assault both got their Navy Battlegroup shot to hell by the Xanatite defense fleet and broke open the high-security prison of Anacharis Scoria, Dark Archmagos. Taking command of the defence with his personal force of [[MadScientist enhanced combat robots]] he annihilated over half of the [[SpaceMarine Astartes]] assault force and committed the planet firmly to the Traitor cause, where it has supplied the Traitor Legions for over ten thousand years. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Good job, Dark Angels]].
18th Apr '17 12:46:17 PM BeerBaron
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--> '''Balgruuf (paraphrased)''': To not fight with him is to side against him!

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--> ----> '''Balgruuf (paraphrased)''': To "To not fight with him is to side against him!him!"



--> [[spoiler:'''Delphine''']]: It's your choice Dragonborn: us or him.

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--> ----> [[spoiler:'''Delphine''']]: It's "It's your choice Dragonborn: us or him."
18th Apr '17 12:45:01 PM BeerBaron
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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':
** Ulfric Stormcloak is like this. In the words of Jarl Balgruuf:

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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':
''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', Balmora Mages Guild Stewardess Ranis Athrys has this attitude toward any mages who do not join the Mages Guild. Several of the quests she gives involve convincing these outsider mages to join the Guild, and in most cases, [[JoinOrDie killing the mage]] in question is an acceptable quest resolution to her.
** ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'':
***
Ulfric Stormcloak is like this. In the words of Jarl Balgruuf:



** Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun is desperate to try remain neutral in the conflict. When first asked what side he supports, he replies "[[TakeAThirdOption Whiterun's]]". He eventually is [[NeutralNoLonger forced to choose]], however and lends his support to the Empire.
** After a certain point in the main quest [[spoiler: the Blades discover that the Dragonborn has been working with Paarthurnax, who is a dragon and the former right hand of [[BigBad Alduin]], and they refuse to cooperate with him any further unless he kills Paarthurnax for his past crimes against mankind. The player doesn't have to do this to finish the main quest, but the Blades cannot be convinced to let their grudge go.]]

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** *** Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun is desperate to try remain neutral in the conflict. When first asked what side he supports, he replies "[[TakeAThirdOption Whiterun's]]". He eventually is [[NeutralNoLonger forced to choose]], however and lends his support to the Empire.
** *** After a certain point in the main quest [[spoiler: the Blades discover that the Dragonborn has been working with Paarthurnax, who is a dragon and the former right hand of [[BigBad Alduin]], and they refuse to cooperate with him any further unless he kills Paarthurnax for his past crimes against mankind. The player doesn't have to do this to finish the main quest, but the Blades cannot be convinced to let their grudge go.]]
12th Mar '17 8:41:25 PM JackG
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones''. Queen Cersei Lannister tells her son Joffrey that "Everyone who isn't us is the enemy." This is all very well when House Lannister is the most powerful and wealthy family in the Seven Kingdoms, but after years of war drain their resources they make an alliance with House Tyrell. Cersei fails to understand the necessity for power-sharing, and her efforts to undermine the Tyrells instead of working with them cause disaster for everyone.
6th Mar '17 9:05:29 PM Give1Take2
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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'': The BigBad Loghain's game-long paranoia regarding Orlais ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval France]]), and his conviction that they're using the [[WorldWreckingWave the Blight]] as a smokescreen to send in Grey Warden spies to infiltrate and retake Ferelden ([[FantasyCounterpartCulture Fantasy Medieval England]]) from within, becomes so intense by the end-game that he's ''convinced'' that you're either with him and thus the nation's continued freedom, or you're against Ferelden's independence and are an Orlesian spy/sympathizer.



* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition''
** Sera [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture]] because she dislikes their "us against them" attitude regarding humans and other non-elves, yet she herself holds similar views regarding "big, important people" and the poor, common folk. Basically, you're either one of the poor common folk, or you're one of the "big, important people." If you're one of the "big people," you'd better implicitly support the common folk or you're an enemy who deserves an arrow or [[PokeThePoodle pie]] to the face.
** Sera also presents this ultimatum if she's in a romance with a Dalish Inquisitior: [[spoiler: After the Temple of Mythal, you have to agree with her that (your) Elvhen religion is a lie, elven culture is stupid and elven history should be forgotten, or she'll break up with you. You cannot retain your religion/culture and remain with her; you either have to be "with her" that it's all stupid, or you're "against her" and get dumped]].

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* ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition''
**
''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'': Sera claims to [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch dislikes elven culture]] because she dislikes their culture's]] "us against them" attitude regarding humans and other non-elves, toward humans, yet she herself ironically holds similar views regarding "big, important people" this view between nobles and the poor, common folk. Basically, you're either one of the poor common folk, or you're one of the "big, important people." If you're one of the "big people," you'd better implicitly support the common folk or you're an enemy who deserves an arrow or [[PokeThePoodle pie]] to the face.
** Sera
commoners, and "elfy elves" verses everyone else. It also presents this ultimatum if she's comes to a head in a her romance with a Dalish Inquisitior: [[spoiler: After the Temple of Mythal, [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]], as [[spoiler:she'll force you have to agree with her that (your) Elvhen religion is a lie, elven culture is stupid and elven history should be forgotten, or she'll break up with you. You cannot retain choose between your religion/culture and remain with her; you either have to be "with her" that it's all stupid, elfy beliefs or you're "against her" and get dumped]].the relationship]].
-->'''Sera:''' Take your elves. I'm just people.
25th Jan '17 3:57:33 PM Scorntex
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* ''ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': If all his other methods fail, [[{{Jerkass}} Prowl]] will try this option, even trying to use it on Ultra Magnus when the guy tries to call him on his BS before [[spoiler:Megatron's trial.]]

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* ''ComicBook/TransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': ''ComicBook/TheTransformersMoreThanMeetsTheEye'': If all his other methods fail, [[{{Jerkass}} Prowl]] will try this option, even trying to use it on Ultra Magnus when the guy tries to call him on his BS before [[spoiler:Megatron's trial.]]
23rd Jan '17 1:50:59 AM Morgenthaler
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* In the LeftBehind books, during the Tribulation, it eventually comes down to joining God or joining the Global Community, as both sides end up squashing any sign of neutrality on the issue.

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* In the LeftBehind ''Literature/LeftBehind'' books, during the Tribulation, it eventually comes down to joining God or joining the Global Community, as both sides end up squashing any sign of neutrality on the issue.
20th Jan '17 11:17:24 PM TheSinful
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** Essentially how the New World works. As it is demonstrated with the Worst Generation post-timeskip, the only way to survive is to overthrow them (ie. Law and Kid's alliances who are planning to topple Kaido and Shanks respectively) or swallow your pride and serve under them (ie. Bege and Drake).

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** Essentially how the New World works. As it is demonstrated with the Worst Generation post-timeskip, the only way to survive is to overthrow them the Yonko (ie. Law and Kid's alliances who are planning to topple Kaido and Shanks respectively) or swallow your pride and serve under them (ie. Bege and Drake).


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* Inverted in ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8907405/1/Aegis Aegis]]'' where [[Film/{{Underworld}} Amelia]] declares that if [[Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer Xander]] isn't with the lycans, then he's with the vampires. He agrees when he realizes the other option is to be killed by one faction or the other.
19th Jan '17 1:06:37 PM Willbyr
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* In the ''ShamanKing'' anime, this is the reason [[KnightTemplar the X-Laws]] hunt down Yoh and his friends. Like Marco said, they become "too powerful to let [them] be."

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* In the ''ShamanKing'' ''Manga/ShamanKing'' anime, this is the reason [[KnightTemplar the X-Laws]] hunt down Yoh and his friends. Like Marco said, they become "too powerful to let [them] be."
7th Jan '17 1:58:14 PM MasterofGalaxies4628
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* [[PlayingWithATrope Played with]] in Literature/TheBible. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for Him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is "against Him" because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist. This is distinct from salvation, which only comes through accepting Jesus', including His Divinity, sacrifice and resurrection, in faith.
** Luke 11:23 ' "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."
** Luke 9:50 "Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you." [[note]] The context for this verse is a man who was casting out demons in Jesus's name, but was not among the disciples. So the disciples told him to stop. Thus Jesus said the above quote. [[/note]]


to:

* [[PlayingWithATrope Played with]] in Literature/TheBible. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for Him" Him", even if they're an atheist atheist, because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e e. sin) is "against Him" Him", because sin is basically "an offense against God" God", again, even if that person is an atheist.atheist. In other words, it is impossible not to choose a side because your actions choose it for you, rather than you making a conscious decision on the matter. This is distinct from salvation, which only comes through accepting Jesus', including His Divinity, sacrifice and resurrection, in faith.
** Luke 11:23 ' 11:23: "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."
** Luke 9:50 features an {{inver|tedTrope}}sion: "Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you." [[note]] The context for For context, this verse is refers to a man who was casting out demons in Jesus's name, but was not among the disciples. So the disciples told him to stop. Thus Jesus said Thus, the above quote. [[/note]]

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