History Main / WhyWeAreBummedCommunismFell

21st Feb '17 5:34:40 PM TheWildWestPyro
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--->'''Alec Trevelyan''' Did you ever ask why? Why we toppled all those dictators, undermined all those regimes, only to come home -- "Good job! Well done! But, sorry, old boy, everything you risked your life and limb for has changed!"?

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--->'''Alec Trevelyan''' Trevelyan:''' Did you ever ask why? Why we toppled all those dictators, undermined all those regimes, only to come home -- "Good job! Well done! But, sorry, old boy, everything you risked your life and limb for has changed!"?
19th Jan '17 10:18:30 AM buihuuduyet
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** During the late 1990's and the early 2000's, it was not at all uncommon to find active-duty US military personnel who served a good part of their careers during the cold war of the 70's and 80's, and these comparatively young people often found themselves recalling the Cold War with an almost nostalgic fondness. Things were so much simpler back then. ''The mission was to keep the Russians on thier side of the fence.'' No threat of worldwide terrorism, no Homeland Security alerts, no downsizing of the military, no endless series of "peacekeeping" missions in the Middle East...

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** During the late 1990's and the early 2000's, it was not at all uncommon to find active-duty US military personnel who served a good part of their careers during the cold war of the 70's and 80's, and these comparatively young people often found themselves recalling the Cold War with an almost nostalgic fondness. Things were so much simpler back then. ''The mission was to keep the Russians on thier their side of the fence.'' No threat of worldwide terrorism, no Homeland Security alerts, no downsizing of the military, no endless series of "peacekeeping" missions in the Middle East...
19th Jan '17 10:17:12 AM buihuuduyet
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* When the USSR secured their hold on all the land previously owned by the Russian Empire, they decided to divide the country along ethnic lines, giving each major people group their own "Soviet Socialist Republic". Due to the fact that the areas inhabited by traditional [[ArchEnemy Arch Enemies]] the Azeris and Armenians overlapped somewhat, this resulted in an exclave of the Azerbaijan SSR being placed on the other side of the Armenian SSR, and the majority Armenian "Ngarno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast" being placed in the middle of Azeri territory. As long as everyone could move between the four areas and the Red Army and KGB were around to keep an eye on everyone, the ethnic tensions were kept quiet. When the central government collapsed, suddenly all those internal administrative boundaries became international borders, and war broke out over the Ngarno-Karabakh region, as Ngarno-Karabakh declared independence, Azerbaijan tried to assert control and Armenia tried to annex it. The conflict is still going on in some form to this day.

to:

* When the USSR secured their hold on all the land previously owned by the Russian Empire, they decided to divide the country along ethnic lines, giving each major people group their own "Soviet Socialist Republic". Due to the fact that the areas inhabited by traditional [[ArchEnemy Arch Enemies]] the Azeris and Armenians overlapped somewhat, this resulted in an exclave of the Azerbaijan SSR being placed on the other side of the Armenian SSR, and the majority Armenian "Ngarno-Karabakh "Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast" being placed in the middle of Azeri territory. As long as everyone could move between the four areas and the Red Army and KGB were around to keep an eye on everyone, the ethnic tensions were kept quiet. When the central government collapsed, suddenly all those internal administrative boundaries became international borders, and war broke out over the Ngarno-Karabakh Nagorno-Karabakh region, as Ngarno-Karabakh Nagorno-Karabakh declared independence, Azerbaijan tried to assert control and Armenia tried to annex it. The conflict is still going on in some form to this day.
18th Jan '17 4:29:56 AM RobTan
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Added DiffLines:

* When the USSR secured their hold on all the land previously owned by the Russian Empire, they decided to divide the country along ethnic lines, giving each major people group their own "Soviet Socialist Republic". Due to the fact that the areas inhabited by traditional [[ArchEnemy Arch Enemies]] the Azeris and Armenians overlapped somewhat, this resulted in an exclave of the Azerbaijan SSR being placed on the other side of the Armenian SSR, and the majority Armenian "Ngarno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast" being placed in the middle of Azeri territory. As long as everyone could move between the four areas and the Red Army and KGB were around to keep an eye on everyone, the ethnic tensions were kept quiet. When the central government collapsed, suddenly all those internal administrative boundaries became international borders, and war broke out over the Ngarno-Karabakh region, as Ngarno-Karabakh declared independence, Azerbaijan tried to assert control and Armenia tried to annex it. The conflict is still going on in some form to this day.
17th Dec '16 7:13:09 PM fumanchu
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* In an episode of ''Series/LawAndOrder'' an [[HelloAttorney assistant district attorney]] is able interpret a dead John Doe's [[TattooedCrook Russian prison tattoos]], explaining that she majored in Russian studies because she thought the UsefulNotes/ColdWar would keep her employed for life. She then chose a career in law.
12th Dec '16 10:09:41 PM Fireblood
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** Academia in general suffered from this. There has now been a move away from the arts, humanities, social sciences, and hard sciences--and towards engineering, business, and medical school--coinciding with the fall of the USSR. One of the most telling bits of information is that, for a while, 9 different engineering professions were in the top 10 for the most demand in the 2000s and are still up there in the 2010s. Ironically, arts, humanities and social sciences were discredited in the USSR because of their associations with intellectualism. UsefulNotes/JosefStalin didn't want anyone as smart as him around and considering he had a standardized IQ of 160, it was difficult to find anyone that smart. Furthermore, the CIA actually used Art as a weapon against the USSR. While Soviet artists stuck to "safe" realist art, the CIA promoted more abstract art as kind of a "this is why freedom is better" sort of tactic in the "Cultural Cold War". A senior CIA member, Thomas Braden, has gone on record saying, "The Boston Symphony Orchestra won more acclaim for the US in Paris than John Foster Dulles or Dwight D. Eisenhower could have brought with a hundred speeches". Indeed many Soviet artists started to sneak in more abstract themes in their art.
* Many engineers from the Soviet Union have faced difficulties adapting to the post-Soviet economy. Due to organizational structure of the Soviet engineering, with its concentration of most R&D in huge centralized Research Institutes, a lot of fresh engineers have found a cushy position where they could do essentially the same thing for all their career, gradually losing any semblance of flexibility. Adapting to the more general nature of engineering outside of the Soviet Union was difficult.
* During the Cold War, competition between the United States-led West and the Soviet-led Eastern Bloc at the UsefulNotes/OlympicGames was incredibly intense, with heated patriotism on both sides of the Iron Curtain generating a great deal of the excitement. The Olympics ''literally'' became an ideological battlefield and a direct extension of the conflict. As a result, performances such as the Miracle On Ice at the 1980 Winter Games have a lasting impact on popular culture today. However while in the immediate post-collapse era the lingering influence of the Soviets intensified many of the competitions (such as the "Magnificent Seven" US women's gymnastics team winning Gold at the 1996 Games) the Olympics today have lost much of their relevance without the Cold War driving the rivalries.
** Russia still remains a strong contender in the Olympics in these days, but for Americans, the new "Enemy" has become China. Since 2000, Russia usually comes in third place (based on total medal count), with the United States and China coming in first and second, respectively[[note]]Not always the case, but usually. Russia usually shines during the Winter Olympics, along with other countries like Canada and Sweden[[/note]]. Russia, on the other hand, has come to accept the spirit of the games once more: Only competing for the pride and love of their nation, and not so much to prove themselves "better" than others.

to:

** Academia in general suffered from this. There has now been a move away from the arts, humanities, social sciences, and hard sciences--and towards engineering, business, and medical school--coinciding with the fall of the USSR. One of the most telling bits of information is that, for a while, 9 different engineering professions were in the top 10 for the most demand in the 2000s and are still up there in the 2010s. Ironically, arts, humanities and social sciences were discredited in the USSR because of their associations with intellectualism. UsefulNotes/JosefStalin didn't want anyone as smart as him around and considering he had a standardized IQ of 160, it was difficult to find anyone that smart. Furthermore, the CIA actually used Art as a weapon against the USSR. While Soviet artists stuck to "safe" realist art, the CIA promoted more abstract art as kind of a "this is why freedom is better" sort of tactic in the "Cultural Cold War". A senior CIA member, Thomas Braden, has gone on record saying, "The Boston Symphony Orchestra won more acclaim for the US in Paris than John Foster Dulles or Dwight D. Eisenhower could have brought with a hundred speeches". Indeed many Soviet artists started to sneak in more abstract themes in their art.
art. Others outright defected to the West for greener pastures.
* Many engineers from the Soviet Union have faced difficulties adapting to the post-Soviet economy. Due to the organizational structure of the Soviet engineering, with its concentration of most R&D in huge centralized Research Institutes, a lot of fresh engineers have had found a cushy position where they could do essentially the same thing for all of their career, gradually losing any semblance of flexibility. Adapting to the more general nature of engineering outside of the Soviet Union was difficult.
* During the Cold War, competition between the United States-led West and the Soviet-led Eastern Bloc at the UsefulNotes/OlympicGames was incredibly intense, with heated patriotism on both sides of the Iron Curtain generating a great deal of the excitement. The Olympics ''literally'' became an ideological battlefield and a direct extension of the conflict. As a result, performances such as the Miracle On Ice at the 1980 Winter Games have a lasting impact on popular culture today. However while in the immediate post-collapse era the lingering influence of the Soviets intensified many of the competitions (such as the "Magnificent Seven" US women's gymnastics team winning Gold at the 1996 Games) Games), the Olympics today have lost much of their relevance without the Cold War driving the rivalries.
** Russia still remains a strong contender in the Olympics in these days, but for Americans, the new "Enemy" has become China. Since 2000, Russia usually comes in third place (based on total medal count), with the United States and China coming in first and second, respectively[[note]]Not respectively.[[note]]Not always the case, but usually. Russia usually shines during the Winter Olympics, along with other countries like Canada and Sweden[[/note]]. Sweden[[/note]] Russia, on the other hand, has come to accept the spirit of the games once more: Only competing for the pride and love of their nation, and not so much to prove themselves "better" than others.



* Even though the [=USSR=]/Eastern Europe and post-1990 China has stopped supporting pro-Communist rebel groups in Asia, Europe, the Americas, Africa and the Middle East, some of them still exists due to other factors such as government corruption or poor living standards.

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* Even though the [=USSR=]/Eastern Europe and post-1990 China has stopped supporting pro-Communist rebel groups in Asia, Europe, the Americas, Africa and the Middle East, some of them still exists exist due to other factors such as government corruption or poor living standards.



* And the most telling result of the fall of Communism, for the West, has been a dramatic shift towards liberal capitalism and a narrowing of the political landscape; "socialist" and "labour" parties now stand for centrist free-market policy, and governments that think to institute policies of wealth redistribution or fund social welfare are branded as "radical". Such a lack of pluralism can be considered to have weakened post-cold war democracy.
* Many women's artistic gymnastics fans long for the days when, as they see it, artistry and grace dominated the sport. The Soviets won an unheard-of ''nine'' back-to-back team Olympic gold medals[[note]]the Soviet women took home gold at every Olympics they competed in, not winning in 1984 (Romania won instead) only because of the boycott; their winning streak lasted from 1952 to ''1992''[[/note]], and on any list of the greatest gymnasts of all time, a minimum of seventy percent are guaranteed to be Soviet.[[note]]The others will be Romanian or East German, with maybe ''one'' American (almost certainly Shannon Miller) on the list.[[/note]] The Soviets, with their national training center, massive government funding, thousands of aspiring athletes, and in-house choreographer, emphasized line, artistry, dance, and grace in their gymnastics, and no one will dispute that their routines, and floor exercises in particular, are of a standard that may never be reached again. There is a reason why the Golden Age of Women's Gymnastics is considered to have ended with the 1992 Olympics. But because the government demanded success at any price, the system's TrainingFromHell means that dark brutality lurked in the shadows behind the blazing lights of the Soviet greats, and many of the stories hidden in that darkness would give any parent nightmares.'

to:

* And the most telling result of the fall of Communism, for the West, has been a dramatic shift towards liberal capitalism and a narrowing of the political landscape; "socialist" and "labour" "labor" parties now stand for centrist free-market policy, and governments that think to institute policies of wealth redistribution or fund social welfare are branded as "radical". Such a lack of pluralism can be considered to have weakened post-cold war democracy.
* Many women's artistic gymnastics fans long for the days when, as they see it, artistry and grace dominated the sport. The Soviets won an unheard-of ''nine'' back-to-back team Olympic gold medals[[note]]the medals.[[note]]The Soviet women took home gold at every Olympics they competed in, not winning in 1984 (Romania won instead) only because of the boycott; their winning streak lasted from 1952 to ''1992''[[/note]], and ''1992''.[[/note]] And on any list of the greatest gymnasts of all time, a minimum of seventy percent are guaranteed to be Soviet.[[note]]The others will be Romanian or East German, with maybe ''one'' American (almost certainly Shannon Miller) on the list.[[/note]] The Soviets, with their national training center, massive government funding, thousands of aspiring athletes, and in-house choreographer, emphasized line, artistry, dance, and grace in their gymnastics, and no one will dispute that their routines, and floor exercises in particular, are of a standard that may never be reached again. There is a reason why the Golden Age of Women's Gymnastics is considered to have ended with the 1992 Olympics. But because the government demanded success at any price, the system's TrainingFromHell means that dark brutality lurked in the shadows behind the blazing lights of the Soviet greats, and many of the stories hidden in that darkness would give any parent nightmares.'
8th Nov '16 4:57:50 PM TheWildWestPyro
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* The few places Communism didn't fall was more because they didn't practice it to begin with, or at least not to the letter. Post-Mao mainland China and 1990s Vietnam are the more successful examples of ideology bending to reality - Deng Xiaoping, leader of the CCP was proud to proclaim words to the effect that "It doesn't matter whether 'the cat' is black or white; if it catches rats, it's a good cat".

to:

* The few places Communism didn't fall was more because they didn't practice it to begin with, or at least not to the letter. Post-Mao mainland China and 1990s Vietnam are the more successful examples of ideology bending to reality - Deng Xiaoping, leader of the CCP was proud to proclaim words to the effect that "It doesn't matter whether 'the cat' is black or white; if as long as it catches rats, mice, it's a good cat".
24th Oct '16 10:44:42 AM jamespolk
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** The book ''Revolution 1989'' describes Mikhail Gorbachev as a man who did "the right thing for the wrong reasons". Gorbachev did not relax the Soviet grip on Eastern Europe because he wanted to see the Soviet bloc go capitalist. He did it because the Eastern Bloc countries had become a serious economic drain on the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was, in fact, a committed Communist. He believed that his own country and the USSR's satellites would choose communism of their own free will. He was wrong.

to:

** The book ''Revolution 1989'' describes Mikhail Gorbachev as a man who did "the right thing for the wrong reasons". Gorbachev did not relax the Soviet grip on Eastern Europe because he wanted to see the Soviet bloc go capitalist. He did it because the Eastern Bloc countries had become a serious economic drain on the Soviet Union. Gorbachev was, in fact, a committed Communist. Communist, and his program was quite similar to Alexander Dubcek's "socialism with a human face" in Czechoslovakia a generation before. He believed that political repression was not necessary to maintain communism; he believed that his own country and the USSR's satellites would choose communism of their own free will. He was wrong.
21st Oct '16 10:50:25 AM Morgenthaler
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** Academia in general suffered from this. There has now been a move away from the arts, humanities, social sciences, and hard sciences--and towards engineering, business, and medical school--coinciding with the fall of the USSR. One of the most telling bits of information is that, for a while, 9 different engineering professions were in the top 10 for the most demand in the 2000s and are still up there in the 2010s. Ironically, arts, humanities and social sciences were discredited in the USSR because of their associations with intellectualism. JosefStalin didn't want anyone as smart as him around and considering he had a standardized IQ of 160, it was difficult to find anyone that smart. Furthermore, the CIA actually used Art as a weapon against the USSR. While Soviet artists stuck to "safe" realist art, the CIA promoted more abstract art as kind of a "this is why freedom is better" sort of tactic in the "Cultural Cold War". A senior CIA member, Thomas Braden, has gone on record saying, "The Boston Symphony Orchestra won more acclaim for the US in Paris than John Foster Dulles or Dwight D. Eisenhower could have brought with a hundred speeches". Indeed many Soviet artists started to sneak in more abstract themes in their art.

to:

** Academia in general suffered from this. There has now been a move away from the arts, humanities, social sciences, and hard sciences--and towards engineering, business, and medical school--coinciding with the fall of the USSR. One of the most telling bits of information is that, for a while, 9 different engineering professions were in the top 10 for the most demand in the 2000s and are still up there in the 2010s. Ironically, arts, humanities and social sciences were discredited in the USSR because of their associations with intellectualism. JosefStalin UsefulNotes/JosefStalin didn't want anyone as smart as him around and considering he had a standardized IQ of 160, it was difficult to find anyone that smart. Furthermore, the CIA actually used Art as a weapon against the USSR. While Soviet artists stuck to "safe" realist art, the CIA promoted more abstract art as kind of a "this is why freedom is better" sort of tactic in the "Cultural Cold War". A senior CIA member, Thomas Braden, has gone on record saying, "The Boston Symphony Orchestra won more acclaim for the US in Paris than John Foster Dulles or Dwight D. Eisenhower could have brought with a hundred speeches". Indeed many Soviet artists started to sneak in more abstract themes in their art.
14th Oct '16 9:05:17 AM dotchan
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* An ad for [[WhatWereTheySellingAgain some company]] highlighted the hazards of the crumbling of the Soviet Bloc: it seemed that every second a new country was being formed (or unformed), necessitating new market update reports.

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* An ad for [[WhatWereTheySellingAgain some company]] highlighted one of the hazards of the crumbling of the Soviet Bloc: Bloc on a corporation with international business interests: it seemed that every second a new country was being formed (or unformed), necessitating new market update reports.
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