History Main / WhatmeasureIsANonBadass

16th Jan '17 10:16:12 AM fearlessnikki
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Out-of-universe example: After Wrestling/{{Lita}} and Wrestling/TrishStratus kick-started the Wrestling/{{WWE}} Divas' division as we know it today, many of the other Divas were disdained for not quite measuring up to the in-ring standards of the first two, even if they trained at a level roughly equal to Lita and Trish - and even though when most of these Divas (''including'' Lita and Trish) started their careers in the late 1990s, [[FairForItsDay many fans considered it impressive when women wrestled]] ''[[FairForItsDay at all]]''.

to:

* Out-of-universe example: After Wrestling/{{Lita}} and Wrestling/TrishStratus kick-started the Wrestling/{{WWE}} Divas' division as we know it today, many of the other Divas were disdained for not quite measuring up to the in-ring standards of the first two, even if they trained at a level roughly equal to Lita and Trish - and even though when most of these Divas (''including'' Lita and Trish) started their careers in the late 1990s, [[FairForItsDay many fans considered it impressive when women wrestled]] ''[[FairForItsDay at all]]''. Even more so is when the women come from athletic backgrounds that are more feminine - dancing, cheerleader, gymnastics etc - and even on ThisVeryWiki are treated as such, never mind how athletic one needs to be to have dancing as a career.
3rd Jan '17 4:54:26 PM Wyldchyld
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* A complaint regarding a number of DemotedToExtra characters from ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha''. Prime example is Yuuno Scrya, but many would also level the complaint regarding Chrono Harlaown, who has shown himself to be genuinely BadAss on occasion. Some people would even say this about Nanoha herself, because she seems to be nonlethal no matter how much property damage she ends up inflicting, up to and including blowing through a large portion of a warship from inside. It's actually supposed to be a sign of Nanoha's power that she has enough self-control to only inflict nonlethal but very, very painful magical damage.

to:

* A complaint regarding a number of DemotedToExtra characters from ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha''. Prime example is Yuuno Scrya, but many would also level the complaint regarding Chrono Harlaown, who has shown himself to be genuinely BadAss Badass on occasion. Some people would even say this about Nanoha herself, because she seems to be nonlethal no matter how much property damage she ends up inflicting, up to and including blowing through a large portion of a warship from inside. It's actually supposed to be a sign of Nanoha's power that she has enough self-control to only inflict nonlethal but very, very painful magical damage.
19th Dec '16 10:15:01 AM Prometheus117
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Also, Sakura in the VN. She is a DamselInDistress, and in her route she doesn't kick ass [[spoiler:at least not when she's being the ApocalypseMaiden trying to destroy the world]] like Saber or Rin, but that doesn't mean it's her fault that she's horrifyingly abused by the Matou family, [[spoiler: as well as raped constantly by her stepbrother Shinji]]. And yet fans continue to bash her, implying it's her own fault that she's an abuse [[spoiler: and rape]] victim!

to:

** Also, Sakura in the VN. She is a DamselInDistress, DamselInDistress who receives [[FlatCharacter very little characterization outside of her route]] unlike the other main characters, and in her route she doesn't kick ass [[spoiler:at least not when she's being the ApocalypseMaiden trying to destroy the world]] like Saber or Rin, but that doesn't mean it's her fault that she's horrifyingly abused by the Matou family, [[spoiler: as well as raped constantly by her stepbrother Shinji]]. And yet fans continue to bash her, with some of them implying it's her own fault that she's an abuse [[spoiler: and rape]] victim!
14th Nov '16 1:56:24 PM StFan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


->''"How the hell''
->''Did it do so well?''
->''When the main character is totally gay?''
->''He whines like a girl!''
->''And he fights like one, too!''
->''Crying "I must not run away!"''
->''I always thought that an anime hero was meant to have big hairy balls!''
->''But then this guy, Shinji, seems quite unable to get up whenever he falls!"''

to:

->''"How ->''How the hell''
->''Did
hell\\
Did
it do so well?''
->''When
well?\\
When
the main character is totally gay?''
->''He
gay?\\
He
whines like a girl!''
->''And
girl!\\
And
he fights like one, too!''
->''Crying
too!\\
Crying
"I must not run away!"''
->''I
away!"\\
I
always thought that an anime hero was meant to have big hairy balls!''
->''But
balls!\\
But
then this guy, Shinji, seems quite unable to get up whenever he falls!"''falls!''



[[folder:{{Anime}} and {{Manga}}]]

to:

[[folder:{{Anime}} and {{Manga}}]][[folder:Anime & Manga]]



* {{Anime/Pokemon}}: Max from the anime, largely due to having no Pokemon.
** Max? Try ''Ash''? Apparently making it far into tournaments filled with the best of the best is 'weak', and 'pathetic' to most fans.

to:

* {{Anime/Pokemon}}: ''Anime/{{Pokemon}}'': Max from the anime, largely due to having no Pokemon.
** Max? Try ''Ash''? Apparently making it far into tournaments filled with the best of the best is 'weak', and 'pathetic' to most fans.
Pokémon.



* Nite Owl II of ''Comicbook/{{Watchmen}}'' definitely qualifies for this. Since he decided he didn't want to be involved in a futile battle of good against evil for the rest of his life and retired, he's clearly the "worst" of the main characters.
** Even Rorschach held this view for a period of time. And considering his popularity with readers, his view of Nite Owl II probably contributed to the way a lot of fans saw him. Rather ironic considering how Moore intended the ''[[MisaimedFandom exact opposite]]'' effect.
** Parodied in ''WebVideo/ImAMarvelAndImADC'', where Dan and Cyclops discuss this trope.

to:

* Nite Owl II of ''Comicbook/{{Watchmen}}'' definitely qualifies for this. Since he decided he didn't want to be involved in a futile battle of good against evil for the rest of his life and retired, he's clearly the "worst" of the main characters.
**
characters. Even Rorschach held this view for a period of time. And considering his popularity with readers, his view of Nite Owl II probably contributed to the way a lot of fans saw him. Rather ironic considering how Moore intended the ''[[MisaimedFandom exact opposite]]'' effect.
**
effect. Parodied in ''WebVideo/ImAMarvelAndImADC'', where Dan and Cyclops discuss this trope.



[[folder:Film]]

to:

[[folder:Film]][[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]



* [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg This picture]] should tell you what a lot of fans think about [[TheForceAwakens Kylo Ren]].

to:

* %%Weblinks are not examples.
%%* ''Film/TheForceAwakens'':
[[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg This picture]] should tell you what a lot of fans think about [[TheForceAwakens Kylo Ren]].Ren.



[[folder:Live Action TV]]

to:

[[folder:Live Action [[folder:Live-Action TV]]



* ''Series/{{Merlin|2008}}'': On the surface, Guinevere is essentially portrayed as a ShrinkingViolet, a stark contrast to Morgana as a SpiritedYoungLady. Morgana gets to do lots of cool things: [[ActionGirl sword-fight]], telekinetically throw people through the air and [[TyrantTakesTheHelm stand up to King Uther]]. However, this is a ''huge'' simplification of each woman's characterization and CharacterArc: namely that Morgana's [[SlowlySlippingIntoEvil fall into evil]] was marked by her ItsAllAboutMe attitude in which she ranks her own grievances and pain against the needs of others and begins a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against not just Uther, but ''everyone'', including innocent people. In contrast, Guinevere (who is also deeply wronged by Uther when he has her innocent father executed) rises above her inner turmoil and explicitly refuses to wallow in hate. Many fans seem to have ''completely'' missed the juxtapositioning of Guinevere's declaration that she would never seek vengeance against Uther because: "that would make me just like him" with the observations by ''several'' characters that Morgana is now no different from Uther. It also fails to take into account the fact that Guinevere's attempts at proactivity have a far higher success rate [[note]] (retrieving the morteus flower from the dungeon, arguing on behalf of the women in Ealdor for their right to defend their homes, discovering a vital clue that allows her and Merlin to outwit the Witchfinder, convincing the council to open the gates of Camelot and allow the refugees to seek shelter in the city, escaping Helios's men by submerging herself in the river)[[/note]]. Though Guinevere has played the DamselInDistress a few times, Morgana has been in similar situations just as often ([[DistressedDude as have all the male characters]]) and is extremely WeakWilled given the consistency [[HypnotizeThePrincess with which she is placed under enchantments]]. Guinevere, on the other hand, has the ''unprecedented'' move of removing an object of enchantment from her body of her own free will (and thus breaking the spell she was under).\\
\\

to:

* ''Series/{{Merlin|2008}}'': On the surface, Guinevere is essentially portrayed as a ShrinkingViolet, a stark contrast to Morgana as a SpiritedYoungLady. Morgana gets to do lots of cool things: [[ActionGirl sword-fight]], telekinetically throw people through the air and [[TyrantTakesTheHelm stand up to King Uther]]. However, this is a ''huge'' simplification of each woman's characterization and CharacterArc: namely that Morgana's [[SlowlySlippingIntoEvil fall into evil]] was marked by her ItsAllAboutMe attitude in which she ranks her own grievances and pain against the needs of others and begins a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against not just Uther, but ''everyone'', including innocent people. In contrast, Guinevere (who is also deeply wronged by Uther when he has her innocent father executed) rises above her inner turmoil and explicitly refuses to wallow in hate. Many fans seem to have ''completely'' missed the juxtapositioning of Guinevere's declaration that she would never seek vengeance against Uther because: "that would make me just like him" with the observations by ''several'' characters that Morgana is now no different from Uther. It also fails to take into account the fact that Guinevere's attempts at proactivity have a far higher success rate [[note]] (retrieving the morteus flower from the dungeon, arguing on behalf of the women in Ealdor for their right to defend their homes, discovering a vital clue that allows her and Merlin to outwit the Witchfinder, convincing the council to open the gates of Camelot and allow the refugees to seek shelter in the city, escaping Helios's men by submerging herself in the river)[[/note]]. Though Guinevere has played the DamselInDistress a few times, Morgana has been in similar situations just as often ([[DistressedDude as have all the male characters]]) and is extremely WeakWilled given the consistency [[HypnotizeThePrincess with which she is placed under enchantments]]. Guinevere, on the other hand, has the ''unprecedented'' move of removing an object of enchantment from her body of her own free will (and thus breaking the spell she was under).\\
\\
\\\



[[folder:Professional Wrestling]]

to:

[[folder:Professional [[folder:Pro Wrestling]]



* Games in general
** [[OurElvesAreBetter Elves]] in general tend to get this. Who cares if they can put an arrow through your eye from a mile away? They're far too [[{{Elfeminate}} girly]] to pose a [[KilledMidSentence serious- *thwuck* *thump*]]
*** It really doesn't help that elves in all media have a tendency to be ''infuriatingly'' arrogant. There's a reason ScrewYouElves is it's own trope.
** In any tabletop RPG, it's not uncommon for certain character builds to be considered badass or overly strong. In some cases this is simply because conventional player wisdom expects them to be (such being the case with many late-game Wizard builds in 3rd edition ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'') or because the setting declares them to be so (Street Samurai in ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'', Juicers in ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}''). However, every gamemaster runs a game their own way and a character that is theoretically badass on paper may turn out to be useless because the challenges the party faces aren't in their area of expertise.
* ''Shadowrun'': A street samurai is a cyberwared-rocking, face-destroying nightmare of a combat monster… until the party realizes stealth, ingenuity and kill-free missions work out better. The end result is a screwed-out player rocking back and forth in his/her seat, looking utterly useless.

to:

* Games in general
** [[OurElvesAreBetter Elves]] in general tend to get this. Who cares if they can put an arrow through your eye from a mile away? They're far too [[{{Elfeminate}} girly]] to pose a [[KilledMidSentence serious- *thwuck* *thump*]]
*** It really doesn't help that elves in all media have a tendency to be ''infuriatingly'' arrogant. There's a reason ScrewYouElves is it's own trope.
**
In any tabletop RPG, it's not uncommon for certain character builds to be considered badass or overly strong. In some cases this is simply because conventional player wisdom expects them to be (such being the case with many late-game Wizard builds in 3rd edition ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'') or because the setting declares them to be so (Street Samurai in ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'', Juicers in ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}''). However, every gamemaster runs a game their own way and a character that is theoretically badass on paper may turn out to be useless because the challenges the party faces aren't in their area of expertise.
* ''Shadowrun'': ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'': A street samurai is a cyberwared-rocking, face-destroying nightmare of a combat monster… monster... until the party realizes stealth, ingenuity and kill-free missions work out better. The end result is a screwed-out player rocking back and forth in his/her seat, looking utterly useless.



* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'': The Tau and the Craftworld Eldar get a lot of stick from the fandom for not being as [[RatedMForManly overtly manly]] as the other factions, although they are no less awesome. It should tell you something that the biggest factions in terms of sales are the Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Orks. In words, all armies where everyone is bulging with muscle and has "run at the enemy shouting and brandishing an oversized and rusty melee weapon" as their main battle strategy. The Dark Eldar ever so occasionally get this treatment as well, although they avoid the worst of it by being WickedCultured and [[TheUnfavourite having only about twenty people in the world play as them]].

to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'': ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'': The Tau and the Craftworld Eldar get a lot of stick from the fandom for not being as [[RatedMForManly overtly manly]] as the other factions, although they are no less awesome. It should tell you something that the biggest factions in terms of sales are the Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Orks. In words, all armies where everyone is bulging with muscle and has "run at the enemy shouting and brandishing an oversized and rusty melee weapon" as their main battle strategy. The Dark Eldar ever so occasionally get this treatment as well, although they avoid the worst of it by being WickedCultured and [[TheUnfavourite having only about twenty people in the world play as them]].



[[folder:TV Tropes]]
* This is part of the reason that TheChick is looked down upon, because she tends to be a non-action, non-badass. And {{Chickification}} is ''immediately'' labeled to an ActionGirl [[RealWomenDontWearDresses who shows any "female" emotion]].
* WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway exists, in part, because of this attitude. HeartIsAnAwesomePower exists because it is a counterpoint to this attitude.
[[/folder]]



[[folder:Webcomics]]

to:

[[folder:Webcomics]][[folder:Web Animation]]
* An in-universe example: in Season 10 of ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', Church claims that Washington has gone from being a badass Freelancer who could fight toe-to-toe with Tex to [[spoiler:Carolina]]'s whipping boy - yet he is still a skilled fighter and has in fact [[spoiler:turned the Blues into a much more effective fighting force]]. The BadassDecay is relative when compared to [[spoiler:[[BrokenAce Carolina]]]]. Then it gets completely revoked when he [[spoiler:puts a gun to Carolina's head when she threatens Tucker and shoots her an IronicEcho before walking out on her]].
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Web Comics]]



* An in-universe example: in Season 10 of ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', Church claims that Washington has gone from being a badass Freelancer who could fight toe-to-toe with Tex to [[spoiler:Carolina]]'s whipping boy - yet he is still a skilled fighter and has in fact [[spoiler:turned the Blues into a much more effective fighting force]]. The BadassDecay is relative when compared to [[spoiler:[[BrokenAce Carolina]]]]. Then it gets completely revoked when he [[spoiler:puts a gun to Carolina's head when she threatens Tucker and shoots her an IronicEcho before walking out on her]].

to:

* An in-universe example: in Season 10 Wiki/TVTropes:
** This is part
of ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', Church claims the reason that Washington has gone from being TheChick is looked down upon, because she tends to be a badass Freelancer non-action, non-badass. And {{Chickification}} is ''immediately'' labeled to an ActionGirl [[RealWomenDontWearDresses who could fight toe-to-toe with Tex shows any "female" emotion]].
** WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway exists, in part, because of this attitude. HeartIsAnAwesomePower exists because it is a counterpoint
to [[spoiler:Carolina]]'s whipping boy - yet he is still a skilled fighter and has in fact [[spoiler:turned the Blues into a much more effective fighting force]]. The BadassDecay is relative when compared to [[spoiler:[[BrokenAce Carolina]]]]. Then it gets completely revoked when he [[spoiler:puts a gun to Carolina's head when she threatens Tucker and shoots her an IronicEcho before walking out on her]].this attitude.



* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra''

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra''''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'':
19th Oct '16 3:26:41 PM wedward
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] should tell you what a lot of fans think about [[TheForceAwakens Kylo Ren]].

to:

* [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this This picture]] should tell you what a lot of fans think about [[TheForceAwakens Kylo Ren]].
19th Oct '16 3:26:07 PM wedward
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] should tell you what a lot of fans think about [[TheForceAwakens Kylo Ren]].
18th Oct '16 7:32:58 PM KrspaceT
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* The Russian Army in World War 1 is often seen as being weak and nothing but a German Punching Bag. Apparently the roughly 6 ''million'' casualties they took down with them died of laughing at their weakness then.
18th Oct '16 7:28:12 PM KrspaceT
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Max? Try Ash? Apparently making it far into tournaments filled with the best of the best is 'weak', and 'pathetic' to most fans.

to:

** Max? Try Ash? ''Ash''? Apparently making it far into tournaments filled with the best of the best is 'weak', and 'pathetic' to most fans.
18th Oct '16 7:27:48 PM KrspaceT
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Max? Try Ash? Apparently making it far into tournaments filled with the best of the best is 'weak', and 'pathetic' to most fans.
1st Oct '16 2:34:00 PM ANTMuddle
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Natalie White was considered this on ''Series/{{Survivor}} Samoa'', particularly by her aggressive competitors who were with her in the last tribal council. Then jury-member Erik stands up and delivers a speech in which he points out that since she's still in the game, she must be doing ''something'' right, and furthermore, did it in a way that didn't sacrifice her integrity. Meanwhile, Mick claimed to deserve votes (Natalie didn't), while Russell Hantz just sociopathically bullied his way through the game and finished by boasting "These two suck - Aren't I awesome?" to the jury. This speech may well have contributed to her 7-2-0 win.
** Sandra Diaz-Twine in ''Heroes vs. Villains'' had this by the fans as well as Russell Hantz himself. Russell claims that Sandra being able to win ''twice'' is somehow proof that the game's rules are flawed, because she would be ''terrible'' at physical challenges and have ''zero'' personal immunities under her belt, yet was good enough with people to know what was up, and was able to play the lesser of three evils. ("I hate Russell, too.") Meanwhile, Parvati already had a pretty loyal fan base and played a game more people approved of, as opposed to Sandra who [[XanatosSpeedChess went with the flow]]. Mario Lanza (a foremost columnist on Survivor) pointed on his [[http://funny115.com/v2/2.htm "The Fall of Russell Hantz entry]] on his The Funny 115 that she and Russell taunted the heroes with J.T.'s letter. Some Sandra supporters even pointed out that Sandra ''had'' more allies in the jury (including the entire Heroes tribe) and Russell should have considered that -- Parvati ''did'' realize this and [[CassandraTruth tried to get Russell to see this too]], but he kept on insisting that Sandra had no chance of winning... just like he insisted that Natalie had no chance of winning in ''Samoa''. Cue the HumiliationConga.

to:

** Natalie White was considered this on ''Series/{{Survivor}} Samoa'', particularly by her aggressive competitors who were with her in the last tribal council. Then jury-member Erik stands up and delivers a speech in which he points out that since she's still in the game, she must be doing ''something'' right, and furthermore, did it in a way that didn't sacrifice her integrity. Meanwhile, Mick claimed to deserve votes (Natalie didn't), while Russell Hantz just sociopathically bullied his way through the game and finished by boasting "These two suck - Aren't I awesome?" to the jury. This speech may well have contributed to her 7-2-0 win. \n [[http://funny115.com/v2/50.htm Also see the first "Fall of Russell Hantz" entry.]]
** Sandra Diaz-Twine in ''Heroes vs. Villains'' had this by the fans as well as Russell Hantz himself. Russell claims that Sandra being able to win ''twice'' is somehow proof that the game's rules are flawed, because she would be ''terrible'' at physical challenges and have ''zero'' personal immunities under her belt, yet was good enough with people to know what was up, and was able to play the lesser of three evils. ("I hate Russell, too.") Meanwhile, Parvati already had a pretty loyal fan base and played a game more people approved of, as opposed to Sandra who [[XanatosSpeedChess went with the flow]]. Mario Lanza (a foremost columnist on Survivor) pointed on his [[http://funny115.com/v2/2.htm second "The Fall of Russell Hantz Hantz" entry]] on his The Funny 115 that she and Russell taunted the heroes with J.T.'s letter. Some Sandra supporters even pointed out that Sandra ''had'' more allies in the jury (including the entire Heroes tribe) and Russell should have considered that -- Parvati ''did'' realize this and [[CassandraTruth tried to get Russell to see this too]], but he kept on insisting that Sandra had no chance of winning... just like he insisted that Natalie had no chance of winning in ''Samoa''. Cue the HumiliationConga.
This list shows the last 10 events of 380. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WhatmeasureIsANonBadass