History Main / WhatMeasureIsANonBadass

10th Jun '18 5:59:40 AM jormis29
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* Keyleth on ''WebVideo/CriticalRole'', to the point that Marisha Ray, who plays her, has to deal with incessant bullying from certain corners of the fanbase. Though Keyleth's magic makes her the most powerful member of the group, and thus a BadassOnPaper, Marisha plays her as insecure, doubtful, and socially awkward, so these fans consider her weak in comparison to the stone-cold badasses that allegedly make up the rest of the party--never mind that the other characters are just as insecure, doubtful, and socially awkward, they just deal with it in a brooding, angsty, badassful way.

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* Keyleth on ''WebVideo/CriticalRole'', to the point that Marisha Ray, Creator/MarishaRay, who plays her, has to deal with incessant bullying from certain corners of the fanbase. Though Keyleth's magic makes her the most powerful member of the group, and thus a BadassOnPaper, Marisha plays her as insecure, doubtful, and socially awkward, so these fans consider her weak in comparison to the stone-cold badasses that allegedly make up the rest of the party--never mind that the other characters are just as insecure, doubtful, and socially awkward, they just deal with it in a brooding, angsty, badassful way.
26th May '18 5:37:52 PM HenryHFA
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* ''Webcomic/OnePunchMan'' subverts this trope with Mumen Rider: He is among the weakest of the heroes and flat out admits that he is mostly useless in the battlefield, yet thanks to his determination and dedication to being a hero he managed to be one of the most popular heroes not just InUniverse but among the fandom too.
30th Apr '18 3:09:24 PM Awesomekid42
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* ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'': [[TheProtagonist Sora]] is goofy, naive, lacks angst ''and'' ambition, and is incredibly gentle and empathic. His attitude screams the opposite of badassery. He is also quite possibly the second most powerful individual in the universe, beaten out by a reality warping PhysicalGod. Without training or preparation, he has accomplished more than three of his (formally trained) predecessors put together. His combat prowess is amplified in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'''s ActionCommands, but this serves only to highlight the dissonance.
27th Apr '18 9:35:49 AM PF
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* ''Anime/DragonballZ'':
** Almost every non-Saiyan fighter is hit with this to some extent, but Krillin and Yamcha (the latter especially) get some of the worst criticism. Both guys are ''very'' strong by human terms but are called "weak" by a good chunk of the fanbase because they're not as strong as the Saiyans or the aliens/other creatures they fight. They also get criticized for dying a lot despite being far from the only characters that died more than once.
** The more zealous Gohan's fans have been given the character a hard time since he no longer trains and wants to live a normal life. Because of that he experience BadassDecay and isn't the strongest unfused character anymore, which is apparently all Gohan is worth to these fans since he's now a wasted and terrible character. This is ignoring that Gohan has said since the Cell Games that he didn't like fighting, and he now has a wife and child to take care of. He is also still one of the strongest characters in the series, but "he's not the strongest anymore, so he's terrible".

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* ''Anime/DragonballZ'':
''Anime/DragonBallZ'':
** Almost every non-Saiyan fighter is hit with this to some extent, but Krillin and Yamcha (the Yamcha, the latter especially) especially, get some of the worst criticism. Both guys are ''very'' strong by human terms but are called "weak" by a good chunk of the fanbase because they're not as strong as the Saiyans or the aliens/other creatures they fight. They also get criticized for dying a lot despite being far from the only characters that died more than once.
** The more zealous Gohan's Many Gohan fans have been given the character a hard time since he no longer trains and wants to live a normal life. Because of that this, he experience experiences BadassDecay and isn't the strongest unfused character anymore, which is apparently all Gohan is worth to these fans since he's now a wasted and terrible character.anymore. This is ignoring that Gohan has said since the Cell Games that he didn't like fighting, and he now has a wife and child to take care of. He is also still one of the strongest characters in the series, but "he's not the strongest anymore, so he's terrible".



* ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'''s Raiden got a lot of flak from fanboys, mostly for being a ReplacementScrappy for Solid Snake, but attributed to him being a "weak, [[{{Bishonen}} overly-feminine]] character" (despite the fact that he fought well, ''taking down several Metal Gears, killing the BigBad'', and did far better than most people could have done in his [[GambitPileup profoundly shitty situation]], leaving with renewed purpose, the [[WellDoneSonGuy respect of his mentor]], a renewed relationship with the woman he loved, and with the child of a castmate still alive). ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots'' reinvented him to be a cyborg ninja, and these days, he's a lot more popular - even though his ninja self spent half of the game dying slowly of kidney failure and whining about his awful situation. To be fair, he's ''still'' a powerful fighter who has his fair share of BigDamnHeroes moments, but the primary difference between his ''[=MGS2=]'' and ''[=MGS4=]'' personas seems to be {{Angst}} more than anything else. It just goes to show how shallow this trope (and/or people's standards of Badassery) is; Raiden was judged pathetic because of his [[PrettyBoy appearance]] (his actions did not matter).

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* ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'''s ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'': Raiden got a lot of flak from fanboys, mostly for being a ReplacementScrappy for Solid Snake, but attributed to him Snake and for being a "weak, [[{{Bishonen}} overly-feminine]] character" (despite character". This is despite the fact that he fought well, ''taking down several Metal Gears, killing the BigBad'', and did far better than most people could have done in his [[GambitPileup profoundly shitty situation]], leaving with renewed purpose, the [[WellDoneSonGuy respect of his mentor]], a renewed relationship with the woman he loved, and with the child of a castmate still alive). alive. ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots'' reinvented him to be a cyborg ninja, and these days, he's a lot more popular - even though his ninja self spent half of the game dying slowly of kidney failure and whining about his awful situation. To be fair, he's ''still'' a powerful fighter who has his fair share of BigDamnHeroes moments, but the primary difference between his ''[=MGS2=]'' and ''[=MGS4=]'' personas seems to be {{Angst}} more than anything else. It just goes to show how shallow this trope (and/or people's standards of Badassery) is; Raiden was judged pathetic because of his [[PrettyBoy appearance]] (his actions did not matter).popular.
3rd Apr '18 5:10:52 AM Kotomikun
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* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' : Madoka Kaname is [[TheScrappy condemned by much of the fanbase]] for being [[{{Wangst}} emotionally crushed]] by all that happens to her at the start. These fans focus on Madoka's justified grief at the situation without taking into account that [[spoiler: Madoka is a firmly proactive protagonist, saving people from unwittingly killing themselves at the hands of a witch, singlehandedly trying to stop Sayaka from fighting, and trying to convince Homura to team up with Sayaka for her benefit; all of this meant to establish that trying one's best to do what's right doesn't always result in a happy ending]]. The ending makes it a DefiedTrope, as she [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap rescues herself from the scrappy heap]] ''without'' becoming a badass, although what she actually did is awesome in itself: [[spoiler:She essentially saves everyone with ThePowerOfLove, by {{Rules Lawyer}}ing herself into goddessdom.]] Although there is the occasional vocal minority that still don't think that's enough [[spoiler: or too much if the accusations of her being a CanonSue are anything to go by.]]

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* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' : ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'':
**
Madoka Kaname is [[TheScrappy condemned by much of the fanbase]] for being [[{{Wangst}} emotionally crushed]] by all that happens to her at the start. These fans focus on Madoka's justified grief at the situation without taking into account that [[spoiler: Madoka is a firmly proactive protagonist, saving people from unwittingly killing themselves at the hands of a witch, singlehandedly trying to stop Sayaka from fighting, and trying to convince Homura to team up with Sayaka for her benefit; all of this meant to establish that trying one's best to do what's right doesn't always result in a happy ending]]. The ending makes it a DefiedTrope, as she [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap rescues herself from the scrappy heap]] ''without'' becoming a badass, although what she actually did is awesome in itself: [[spoiler:She essentially saves everyone with ThePowerOfLove, by {{Rules Lawyer}}ing herself into goddessdom.]] Although there is the occasional vocal minority that still don't think that's enough [[spoiler: or too much if the accusations of her being a CanonSue are anything to go by.]]]]
** Sayaka also has this issue, for different reasons. She does fight, initially, and wants to be cool and confident in battle like Mami; but a combination of her lack of talent and [[KnightTemplar perfectionistic expectations for her skills and moral conduct]] cause her to take a sharp turn towards angst and depression, until [[spoiler:she hits rock bottom and [[AndThenJohnWasAZombie becomes a witch]]]]. Her story is meant to be tragic, but some viewers see it as [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter pointless]] because she never gets to do anything particularly cool, and insist that she overreacted to [[spoiler:unwittingly having her soul extracted and put in a SoulJar, Kyousuke not falling for her after she made her wish for his sake]], and other things that caused her rapid BadassDecay. She became more popular after TheMovie, where she's more mature and less angsty... even though she only got that way through her original unpopular ClassicalAntihero arc.
2nd Mar '18 3:52:01 PM Sakubara
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* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' : Madoka Kaname is [[TheScrappy condemned by the fanbase]] for being [[{{Wangst}} emotionally crushed]] by all that happens to her at the start. These fans focus on Madoka's justified grief at the situation without taking into account that [[spoiler: Madoka is a firmly proactive protagonist, saving people from unwittingly killing themselves at the hands of a witch, singlehandedly trying to stop Sayaka from fighting, and trying to convince Homura to team up with Sayaka for her benefit; all of this meant to establish that trying one's best to do what's right doesn't always result in a happy ending]]. The ending makes it a DefiedTrope, as she [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap rescues herself from the scrappy heap]] ''without'' becoming a badass, although what she actually did is awesome in itself: [[spoiler:She essentially saves everyone with ThePowerOfLove, by {{Rules Lawyer}}ing herself into goddessdom.]]

to:

* ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagica'' : Madoka Kaname is [[TheScrappy condemned by much of the fanbase]] for being [[{{Wangst}} emotionally crushed]] by all that happens to her at the start. These fans focus on Madoka's justified grief at the situation without taking into account that [[spoiler: Madoka is a firmly proactive protagonist, saving people from unwittingly killing themselves at the hands of a witch, singlehandedly trying to stop Sayaka from fighting, and trying to convince Homura to team up with Sayaka for her benefit; all of this meant to establish that trying one's best to do what's right doesn't always result in a happy ending]]. The ending makes it a DefiedTrope, as she [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap rescues herself from the scrappy heap]] ''without'' becoming a badass, although what she actually did is awesome in itself: [[spoiler:She essentially saves everyone with ThePowerOfLove, by {{Rules Lawyer}}ing herself into goddessdom.]] Although there is the occasional vocal minority that still don't think that's enough [[spoiler: or too much if the accusations of her being a CanonSue are anything to go by.]]
10th Feb '18 6:43:37 PM Frankencastle
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* Carl Johnson from ''VideoGame/GrandTheftAutoSanAndreas''; his feats are comparable to those of Tommy Vercetti and Niko Bellic, but he also has a tendency to show compassion to those who he wronged. Because, you know, ''considering'' the ramifications of his actions every once in a while makes him a pussy. Some of his cutscenes involve [[CutsceneIncompetence some lack of competence]]. Pushed around by two cops, scolded by his brother or being raped by a psychotic woman make him look bad.

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* Carl Johnson from ''VideoGame/GrandTheftAutoSanAndreas''; his feats are comparable to those of Tommy Vercetti and Niko Bellic, but he also has a tendency to show compassion to those who he wronged. Because, you know, ''considering'' his status as this stems from the ramifications of fact that he suffers from some ''seriously'' inconsistent characterization. Mostly due to his actions every once in a while makes him a pussy. Some of his cutscenes involve [[CutsceneIncompetence some lack of competence]]. Pushed competence in cutscenes]]. Such as allowing himself to be being pushed around by two cops, low level cops (even though he could just as easily kill them), scolded by his brother or being infamously [[NeverLiveItDown raped by a psychotic woman make woman]]. All of which makes him look bad.come across as a spineless wimp rather than the hardcore gangbanger he's meant to be.
5th Jan '18 10:38:50 AM handlere
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** However, in other D&D-oriented optimization forums, this trope is inverted, with the typical "badass" mundane classes such as Barbarian, Monk and Fighter being considered weak and useless for being [[Irony only half-decent in combat]] and pretty much useless anywhere else. In general, they're being considered far weaker classes than [[LinearClasses most spellcasters]] or even [[InverseLawOfUtilityAndLethality more skill-oriented mundane classes]]

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** However, in other D&D-oriented optimization forums, this trope is inverted, with the typical "badass" mundane classes such as Barbarian, Monk and Fighter being considered weak and useless for being [[Irony only half-decent even in combat]] combat and pretty much useless anywhere else. In general, they're being considered far weaker classes than [[LinearClasses [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards most spellcasters]] or even [[InverseLawOfUtilityAndLethality more skill-oriented mundane classes]]
5th Jan '18 10:15:48 AM handlere
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Added DiffLines:

** However, in other D&D-oriented optimization forums, this trope is inverted, with the typical "badass" mundane classes such as Barbarian, Monk and Fighter being considered weak and useless for being [[Irony only half-decent in combat]] and pretty much useless anywhere else. In general, they're being considered far weaker classes than [[LinearClasses most spellcasters]] or even [[InverseLawOfUtilityAndLethality more skill-oriented mundane classes]]
3rd Jan '18 12:29:20 PM MasterFuzzy
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* ''Film/TheForceAwakens'': Kylo Ren, the newest villain. The guy, as [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] says, can stop laser blasts in midair, tank a shot from Chewbacca, chew out his generals freely, and many more. He's Darth Vader's second coming. However - partly ''because'' of that - he's also seen as not badass enough, as fans think his face below his mask looks "emo" as well as how he has [[spoiler:some daddy issues with Han Solo]]. And, unlike Luke, who couldn't really hold his own against Vader until much later, here Rey (who's about as much of a newbie as Luke back then) can fight Kylo Ren to a standstill.

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* ''Film/TheForceAwakens'': Kylo Ren, the newest villain. The guy, as [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ab/d5/f2abd5a88db975bb07408ba0c12cddf5.jpg this picture]] says, can stop laser blasts in midair, tank a shot from Chewbacca, chew out his generals freely, and many more. He's Darth Vader's second coming. However - partly ''because'' of that - he's also seen as not badass enough, as fans think his face below his mask looks "emo" as well as how he has [[spoiler:some daddy issues with Han Solo]]. And, unlike Luke, who couldn't really hold his own against Vader until much later, here Rey (who's about as much of a newbie as Luke back then) can fight Kylo Ren to a standstill. Fans are also divided on his temper tantrums-while some feel that it makes him new and different, others feel that it makes him look weak and pathetic compared to previous antagonists, all of whom were TheStoic, and many AffablyEvil as well.



** Ginny becomes more outspoken, blossoms into a fine CuteWitch plucky girl and Harry falls for her? It doesn't matter, she '''only''' developed to be more "desirable" to Harry and steal him from Hermione who deserves him so much more! What a MarySue!

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** Ginny becomes more outspoken, blossoms into a fine CuteWitch plucky girl and Harry falls for her? It doesn't matter, she '''only''' developed to be more "desirable" to Harry and steal him from Hermione who deserves him so much more! What a MarySue!MarySue! (This one partially comes from fans who have only seen the films, where she loses much of her CharacterDevelopment and has a very rushed, forced romance with Harry).
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