History Main / WhatMeasureIsAMook

26th Jul '17 6:39:37 AM Piterpicher
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* ''SonicTheHedgehog2SpecialEdition'' reveals that one of the {{powerup}}s from Oil Ocean Zone was sapient. His name was Failure Cresh, and he had a thorough backstory involving being born with a ten-ring monitor for a head, and a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood resulting from this. When the player destroys the monitor, the video pauses for a moment of silence--but it's obvious that the player himself is completely oblivious to the fact that he just killed a person.

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* ''SonicTheHedgehog2SpecialEdition'' ''VideoGame/SonicTheHedgehog2SpecialEdition'' reveals that one of the {{powerup}}s from Oil Ocean Zone was sapient. His name was Failure Cresh, and he had a thorough backstory involving being born with a ten-ring monitor for a head, and a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood resulting from this. When the player destroys the monitor, the video pauses for a moment of silence--but it's obvious that the player himself is completely oblivious to the fact that he just killed a person.
20th Jul '17 5:57:18 AM case
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When the hero confronts the BigBad, no matter his crimes, he will [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim spare him]], despite all logic being against it; however, when he kills a {{Mook}} who happens to be in his way, it's no big deal.

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When the hero confronts the BigBad, no matter his crimes, he will [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim spare him]], despite all logic being against it; however, when he kills a {{Mook}} who happens to be in his way, it's no big deal.
deal. In fact, an entire MookHorrorShow is just fine.



Sometimes it's [[HandWave justified(?)]] by the assumption that mooks are AlwaysChaoticEvil, though, as many examples show, entirely innocent GullibleLemmings are often gunned down, as well. Also, many works will attempt to [[JustifiedTrope justify]] this with MechaMooks, though depending where they lie on the SlidingScaleOfRobotIntelligence, the UnfortunateImplications may persist regardless. Another common way to justify it is to coincidentally put heroes or their friends into life-or-death situations against a Mook with no other choice but to kill them, while always giving them the luxury to spare the significant villains.



Subtrope of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Compare WhatMeasureIsANonSuper, WhatMeasureIsANonUnique, and WhatMeasureIsANonHuman AMillionIsAStatistic can be this when applied to mooks in large numbers. Contrast ImmortalLifeIsCheap. PayEvilUntoEvil normally goes hand-in-hand with all this mookocide, often with sneers about the way mooks ''will'' go around JustFollowingOrders. Sometimes [[HandWave justified(?)]] by the assumption that mooks are AlwaysChaoticEvil, though, as many examples show, entirely innocent GullibleLemmings are often gunned down, as well. Also, many works will attempt to [[JustifiedTrope justify]] this with MechaMooks, though depending where they lie on the SlidingScaleOfRobotIntelligence, the UnfortunateImplications may persist regardless. BreakoutMookCharacter may be a subversion. MookHorrorShow is a popular SubTrope. In many works, it is justified by coincidentally being in a life-or-death situation with a Mook with no other choice, but always having the luxury to spare the significant villains.

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Subtrope of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Compare WhatMeasureIsANonSuper, WhatMeasureIsANonUnique, and WhatMeasureIsANonHuman AMillionIsAStatistic can be this when applied to mooks in large numbers. Contrast ImmortalLifeIsCheap. PayEvilUntoEvil normally goes hand-in-hand with all this mookocide, often with sneers about the way mooks ''will'' go around JustFollowingOrders. Sometimes [[HandWave justified(?)]] by the assumption that mooks are AlwaysChaoticEvil, though, as many examples show, entirely innocent GullibleLemmings are often gunned down, as well. Also, many works will attempt to [[JustifiedTrope justify]] this with MechaMooks, though depending where they lie on the SlidingScaleOfRobotIntelligence, the UnfortunateImplications may persist regardless. BreakoutMookCharacter may be a subversion. MookHorrorShow is a popular SubTrope. In many works, it is justified by coincidentally being in a life-or-death situation with a Mook with no other choice, but always having the luxury to spare the significant villains.
See also: SparingTheAces.
25th Apr '17 3:12:54 AM 1810072342
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Added DiffLines:

A common way to play this for BlackComedy is for the minion/monster to say 'Living is fun!' before the hero runs in and stabs them.
23rd Apr '17 9:21:29 AM LadyJaneGrey
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Added DiffLines:

* Zigzagged in an early chapter of ''Fanfic/ShadowchasersTorment''. Dugan breaks into [[{{Yakuza}} Taka's]] penthouse and muscles through the mobster's bodyguards; he later sees that one of them seems to be hurt badly, and asks if he's okay. The guy claims he just has an ulcer, and when Dugan asks if having this sort of job is wise for someone with that problem, the guy brushes it aside and says he just does it part time. [[spoiler:Dugan smells a rat, and it turns out, he's right to be suspicious; the guy is actually spying on Taka for [[BigBad the Doomdreamers]].]]
12th Mar '17 8:15:08 PM Vir
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Subtrope of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Compare WhatMeasureIsANonSuper, WhatMeasureIsANonUnique, and WhatMeasureIsANonHuman. AMillionIsAStatistic can be this when applied to mooks in large numbers. Contrast ImmortalLifeIsCheap. PayEvilUntoEvil normally goes hand-in-hand with all this mookocide, often with sneers about the way mooks ''will'' go around JustFollowingOrders. Sometimes [[HandWave justified(?)]] by the assumption that mooks are AlwaysChaoticEvil, though, as many examples show, entirely innocent GullibleLemmings are often gunned down, as well. Also, many works will attempt to [[JustifiedTrope justify]] this with MechaMooks, though depending where they lie on the SlidingScaleOfRobotIntelligence, the UnfortunateImplications may persist regardless. BreakoutMookCharacter may be a subversion. MookHorrorShow is a popular SubTrope. In many works, it is justified by coincidentally being in a life-or-death situation with a Mook with no other choice, but always having the luxury to spare the significant villains.

to:

Subtrope of ProtagonistCenteredMorality. Compare WhatMeasureIsANonSuper, WhatMeasureIsANonUnique, and WhatMeasureIsANonHuman. WhatMeasureIsANonHuman AMillionIsAStatistic can be this when applied to mooks in large numbers. Contrast ImmortalLifeIsCheap. PayEvilUntoEvil normally goes hand-in-hand with all this mookocide, often with sneers about the way mooks ''will'' go around JustFollowingOrders. Sometimes [[HandWave justified(?)]] by the assumption that mooks are AlwaysChaoticEvil, though, as many examples show, entirely innocent GullibleLemmings are often gunned down, as well. Also, many works will attempt to [[JustifiedTrope justify]] this with MechaMooks, though depending where they lie on the SlidingScaleOfRobotIntelligence, the UnfortunateImplications may persist regardless. BreakoutMookCharacter may be a subversion. MookHorrorShow is a popular SubTrope. In many works, it is justified by coincidentally being in a life-or-death situation with a Mook with no other choice, but always having the luxury to spare the significant villains.
3rd Mar '17 11:20:24 AM intastiel
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' displays this in spades. Shadowrunners are mercenaries hired as [[PlausibleDeniability deniable assets]] by various entities for shady or illegal purposes; most Runners are said to avoid assassination contracts and the NPCs who openly accept them are portrayed as [[PsychoForHire borderline psychopaths]], yet for an average kidnapping, the heaps of security guards, police officers, and so on who die during the shadowrun are brushed off as long as the Runners didn't go overboard with collateral damage.

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' displays this in spades. Shadowrunners are mercenaries hired as [[PlausibleDeniability deniable assets]] by various entities for shady or illegal purposes; most Runners are said to avoid assassination contracts and the NPCs [=NPCs=] who openly accept them are portrayed as [[PsychoForHire borderline psychopaths]], yet for an average kidnapping, the heaps of security guards, police officers, and so on who die during the shadowrun are brushed off as long as the Runners didn't go overboard with collateral damage.
3rd Mar '17 11:20:03 AM intastiel
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' displays this in spades. For context, the players are Shadowrunners, essentially independent mercenaries/criminals for hire hired by various parties (Government, Corporations, Individuals, Organized Crime, etc...) as [[PlausibleDeniability deniable assets]] to do jobs the person doing the hiring cannot do themselves, or cannot afford to be tied with because of who you're running against or the sheer illegality of the job. Most of the books take the form of BBS / Forum discussions between NPC Shadowrunners. The game often brings up the concept of Wetwork (Assassination jobs) as something most runners shy away from. At the very least it's seen as something one does in extreme consequences, if ever. NPC Runners who openly do that kind of work (Like Kaine) are often portrayed as borderline psychopaths, only separated from serial killers in that they get paid and are more skilled. Respectable Shadowrunners will express their disgust at those who do this stuff... Yet the average shadowrun will result in plenty of dead security guards, bodyguards, and other such people even up to police officers. And those are never given a nod. Sure, ''good'' Shadowrunners limit casualties on a run, but that's only because good deniable assets leave as little trace as possible to begin with, not out of some desire to preserve life. The game treats the dozen murders the team might do on a run to extract (Read:Kidnap) a corporate suit as a non-issue. But were the same team going to kill said suit, this would be depicted as some sort of moral line having been crossed. And brushing those deaths away as "Self-defense" or "it's us or them" kind of loses credibility when as Shadowrunners, the players often are the ones kicking down the door to where these people are and attacking.

to:

* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'' displays this in spades. For context, the players Shadowrunners are Shadowrunners, essentially independent mercenaries/criminals for hire mercenaries hired by various parties (Government, Corporations, Individuals, Organized Crime, etc...) as [[PlausibleDeniability deniable assets]] to do jobs the person doing the hiring cannot do themselves, by various entities for shady or cannot afford to be tied with because of who you're running against or the sheer illegality of the job. Most of the books take the form of BBS / Forum discussions between NPC Shadowrunners. The game often brings up the concept of Wetwork (Assassination jobs) as something illegal purposes; most runners shy away from. At the very least it's seen as something one does in extreme consequences, if ever. NPC Runners are said to avoid assassination contracts and the NPCs who openly do that kind of work (Like Kaine) accept them are often portrayed as [[PsychoForHire borderline psychopaths, only separated from serial killers in that they get paid and are more skilled. Respectable Shadowrunners will express their disgust at those who do this stuff... Yet the psychopaths]], yet for an average shadowrun will result in plenty kidnapping, the heaps of dead security guards, bodyguards, and other such people even up to police officers. And those officers, and so on who die during the shadowrun are never given a nod. Sure, ''good'' Shadowrunners limit casualties on a run, but that's only because good deniable assets leave brushed off as little trace long as possible to begin with, not out of some desire to preserve life. The game treats the dozen murders the team might do on a run to extract (Read:Kidnap) a corporate suit as a non-issue. But were the same team going to kill said suit, this would be depicted as some sort of moral line having been crossed. And brushing those deaths away as "Self-defense" or "it's us or them" kind of loses credibility when as Shadowrunners, the players often are the ones kicking down the door to where these people are and attacking.Runners didn't go overboard with collateral damage.
29th Nov '16 11:05:35 AM WillBGood
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* In Creator/FrankMiller's ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns'', Batman won't kill the Joker even though his grinning adversary has recently murdered ''a studio full of people, on live TV''. Earlier on, however, he has no hesitation about using a gang member as a HumanShield, and then turning that gangster's machine-gun on his buddies. Sure, the gangsters were bad but WTF, Millar?

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* In Creator/FrankMiller's ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns'', Batman won't kill the Joker even though his grinning adversary has recently murdered ''a studio full of people, on live TV''. Earlier on, however, he has no hesitation about using a gang member as a HumanShield, and then turning that gangster's machine-gun on his buddies. Sure, the gangsters were bad but WTF, Millar?Miller?
2nd Nov '16 12:51:32 PM rufusluciusivan
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* Cruelly averted in ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of ''Anime/TheWorldsStrongest'' with the Bio-Warriors. In this version, contrary to the evil mooks they were in their original movie, they were designed as friendly creatures supposed to help people, before Kochin turned them (probably against their will) into living weapons. [[AlasPoorVillain Their death is even a surprisingly solemn (and sad) moment.]]

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* Cruelly averted in ''WebVideo/DragonBallZAbridged'''s rendition of ''Anime/TheWorldsStrongest'' ''Anime/DragonBallZTheWorldsStrongest'' with the Bio-Warriors. In this version, contrary to the evil mooks they were in their original movie, they were designed as friendly creatures supposed to help people, before Kochin turned them (probably against their will) into living weapons. [[AlasPoorVillain Their death is even a surprisingly solemn (and sad) moment.]]
7th Aug '16 6:20:15 AM rufusluciusivan
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--> '''Blub-Blub": [[ImColdSoCold "So dark... And cold..."]] ''[[{{Tearjerker}} (starts sobbing)]]''

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--> '''Blub-Blub": '''Blub-Blub''': [[ImColdSoCold "So dark... And cold..."]] ''[[{{Tearjerker}} (starts sobbing)]]''
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WhatMeasureIsAMook