History Main / WarfareRegression

20th Nov '17 4:43:35 AM civetcatcoffee
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* During UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, it was often said that the closest land-based comparison for aerial dogfighting was the combat of the Middle Ages, particularly the tales of knights dueling one another on even terms. This was seen as a positive thing, with many viewing aerial combat as the last bastion of [[WarIsGlorious martial chivalry]] in comparison to [[WarIsHell the horrors of industrial trench warfare on the ground]] (leaving aside the fact that pilots in World War I had [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zw4mxnb arguably higher casualty rates]], especially once air combat started picking up in 1917), and {{Ace Pilot}}s for both the Allied and Central Powers would later be romanticized in terms similar to those of medieval knights.
* A few pieces of soldiers' equipment that had come to be considered outdated in the 19th century made a comeback during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Grenades were considered obsolete with improvements to firearms easily stopping anyone trying to get close enough to throw them (the twists of trenches remedied that), and [[ArmorIsUseless armor and helmets were considered expensive, overly cumbersome wastes of effort]] (the former was restricted to mostly entirely-still sentries, but the latter turned out to be a vital last resort for a man ducked in cover getting raked by shrapnel). Said equipment has improved and remained in used to this day.

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* During UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, it UsefulNotes/WorldWarI featured many examples of previously-considered-outdated modes of combat being more effective than then-modern technologies and tactics.
** It
was often said that the closest land-based comparison for aerial dogfighting was the combat of the Middle Ages, particularly the tales of knights dueling one another on even terms. This was seen as a positive thing, with many viewing aerial combat as the last bastion of [[WarIsGlorious martial chivalry]] in comparison to [[WarIsHell the horrors of industrial trench warfare on the ground]] (leaving aside the fact that pilots in World War I had [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zw4mxnb arguably higher casualty rates]], especially once air combat started picking up in 1917), and {{Ace Pilot}}s for both the Allied and Central Powers would later be romanticized in terms similar to those of medieval knights.
* ** A few pieces of soldiers' equipment that had come to be considered outdated in the 19th century made a comeback during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Grenades were considered obsolete with improvements to firearms easily stopping anyone trying to get close enough to throw them (the twists of trenches remedied that), and [[ArmorIsUseless armor and helmets were considered expensive, overly cumbersome wastes of effort]] (the former was restricted to mostly entirely-still sentries, but the latter turned out to be a vital last resort for a man ducked in cover getting raked by shrapnel). Said equipment has improved and remained in used to this day.day.
** Military commanders originally idealized the rifle and bayonet, believing that waves upon waves of soldiers armed with this combination would go charging towards the enemy, firing well-aimed shots before switching to melee combat when they got close. This rarely happened. Even when soldiers survived long enough to reach enemy trenches, rifles with fixed bayonets were much too long to be effectively used in those tight quarters. Instead, soldiers turned to much cruder weapons, using large knives, short swords, clubs (often made deadlier with nails or barbed wire), and even brass knuckles when it came time to fight hand-to-hand.
27th Jun '17 1:47:12 AM Occidensill
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* The aircraft carrier example given in the description is [[http://sploid.gizmodo.com/are-the-us-navy-supercarriers-useless-1484497670 speculated]] by some military theorists to be on its way to becoming TruthInTelevision sometime in the 21st century, due to the increasing efficacy of anti-ship missiles. Given that these same missiles can also sink other large boats, the consequence of this would be that the future of naval warfare in this environment would resemble a mix of the mid-late 19th century (before the [[LensmanArmsRace dreadnought race]]), with every surface vessel larger than a cruiser (the smallest warship that can operate independently in the open ocean) rendered obsolete, and the early 20th century, specifically the submarine warfare employed by Germany in [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI the two]] UsefulNotes/{{World War|II}}s, albeit with the proliferation of much more powerful and long-ranged weaponry. Such predictions take on [[http://www.newsweek.com/china-dongfeng-21d-missile-us-aircraft-carrier-427063 an especially ominous tone]] for the United States, whose unmatched navy is built entirely around the power of its carrier task forces; the other boats in the fleet are all there to protect the carriers.

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* The aircraft carrier example given in the description is [[http://sploid.gizmodo.com/are-the-us-navy-supercarriers-useless-1484497670 speculated]] by some military theorists to be on its way to becoming TruthInTelevision sometime in the 21st century, due to the increasing efficacy of anti-ship missiles. Given that these same missiles can also sink other large boats, the consequence of this would be that the future of naval warfare in this environment would resemble a mix of the mid-late 19th century (before the [[LensmanArmsRace dreadnought race]]), with every surface vessel larger than a cruiser destroyer (the smallest warship that can operate independently in the open ocean) rendered obsolete, and the early 20th century, specifically the submarine warfare employed by Germany in [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI the two]] UsefulNotes/{{World War|II}}s, albeit with the proliferation of much more powerful and long-ranged weaponry. Such predictions take on [[http://www.newsweek.com/china-dongfeng-21d-missile-us-aircraft-carrier-427063 an especially ominous tone]] for the United States, whose unmatched navy is built entirely largely around the power of its carrier task forces; the other boats in the fleet are all there to protect the carriers.
28th Apr '17 7:43:52 PM kome360
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* ''Webcomic/PlushAndBlood'': Emperor Brown intentionally brought the majority of his advanced forces and supersoldiers to a heavily-contested ''nuclear reactor'' to judge himself - he wanted to see if his archnemesis Phoenix would be willing to doom the world with global nuclear fallout if it meant stopping Brown once and for all, with Brown's evil plan being BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans to create a world where nobody could act on hate]]. Unfortunately, Phoenix's lacky was all too willing to push the button out of spite. Ten years later, the entire world is a wretched wasteland where agricultural supplies are a myth, bandits use semi-auto revolvers, and the local caravans are all wagons and mutant slaves.
5th Dec '16 8:13:56 PM TheRedRedKroovy
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* A few facets of soldiers' equipment used in WorldWarI were just brought back after long being considered outdated. Grenades were considered obsolete with improvements to firearms easily stopping anyone trying to get close enough to throw them (the twists of trenches remedied that), and [[ArmorIsUseless armor and helmets were considered expensive, overly cumbersome wastes of effort]] (the former was restricted to mostly entirely-still sentries while the latter turned out to be a vital last resort for a man ducked in cover getting raked by shrapnel). Said equipment has improved and remained in used to this day.
* During the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar there were calls, especially on the Royalist side, to go back from Muskets to Bows and Arrows. There was a justification, it was difficult for gunpowder production to keep up with consumption and Muskets aren't that much more lethal. In the end though it wasn't practical because of the amount of time it takes to train an archer.

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* A few facets pieces of soldiers' equipment used in WorldWarI were just brought back after long being that had come to be considered outdated. outdated in the 19th century made a comeback during UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Grenades were considered obsolete with improvements to firearms easily stopping anyone trying to get close enough to throw them (the twists of trenches remedied that), and [[ArmorIsUseless armor and helmets were considered expensive, overly cumbersome wastes of effort]] (the former was restricted to mostly entirely-still sentries while sentries, but the latter turned out to be a vital last resort for a man ducked in cover getting raked by shrapnel). Said equipment has improved and remained in used to this day.
* During the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar, there were calls, especially on the Royalist side, to go back from Muskets muskets to Bows and Arrows. There was a justification, longbows, on the grounds that that it was difficult for gunpowder production to keep up with consumption consumption, and Muskets muskets aren't that much more lethal. UsefulNotes/BenjaminFranklin made a similar recommendation over a hundred years later during UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution. In the end though it wasn't practical because of the amount of time end, though, muskets had one massive advantage over longbows: while it takes years to train an archer.a man to use a longbow, it only takes weeks to train that same man to use a musket with comparable lethality.
5th Dec '16 8:04:22 PM TheRedRedKroovy
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* In TheSixties, a view emerged in the US military that the rise of guided missiles had rendered [[OldSchoolDogfight dogfighting]] obsolete, and so new fighter jets like the F-4 Phantom II did not have machine guns or cannons built in. Air combat in UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar, in which North Vietnamese pilots shredded their American counterparts in close-range dogfights where their long-range missiles were ineffective, demonstrated the hard way that this was not the case. Machine guns, cannons, and the training to use them returned to the fore ''very'' quickly.
22nd Nov '16 7:10:46 PM PaulA
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* In the ''Literature/ChildeCycle's'' first book, ''Dorsai!'', long range countermeasures have actually reduced the effectiveness of many weapons. Civilians have better, more advanced firepower than most soldiers. As a result, many troopers rely on simple, effective weapons.

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* In the ''Literature/ChildeCycle's'' first book, ''Dorsai!'', ''Literature/{{Dorsai}}'', long range countermeasures have actually reduced the effectiveness of many weapons. Civilians have better, more advanced firepower than most soldiers. As a result, many troopers rely on simple, effective weapons.
21st Nov '16 4:40:17 PM VutherA
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* A few facets of soldiers' equipment used in WorldWarI were just brought back after long being considered outdated. Grenades were considered obsolete with improvements to firearms easily stopping anyone trying to get close enough to throw them (the twists of trenches remedied that), and [[ArmorIsUseless armor and helmets were considered expensive, overly cumbersome wastes of effort]] (the former was restricted to mostly entirely-still sentries while the latter turned out to be a vital last resort for a man ducked in cover getting raked by shrapnel). Said equipment has improved and remained in used to this day.
10th Nov '16 6:38:45 PM StevieG
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* The ancient Greeks used the phalanx (a mass of troops with very long spears) as the main part of their army. This strategy didn't last against the weapons and tactics of the Roman Legions. Fast forward a few centuries, and medieval armies made extensive use of pikemen (a mass of troops with very long spears), as they were the best way to prevent knights from overrunning your lines.
4th Nov '16 8:49:24 AM Morgenthaler
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[[quoteright:300:[[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianSeries http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/warfare_regression.png]]]]
[[caption-width-right:300:GDI armor in the [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianDawn first]], [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberianSun second]], and [[VideoGame/CommandAndConquerTiberiumWars third]] Tiberium Wars.]]
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31st Oct '16 4:07:50 AM justanid
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* ''[=EarthSiege=]'' and ''VideoGame/{{StarSiege}}'' have [[{{Mecha}} HERCULANs]] that don't show up in the ''VideoGame/{{Tribes}}'' series because they were [[AwesomeButImpractical difficult to maintain]] and less maneuverable than teams of power-armored soldiers with built-in jetpacks. Plus, technology had advanced to the point that less complex vehicles, like aircraft and tanks, could be assembled in just a few seconds with a special vehicle pad[=/=]assembler. Another benefit is being able to leave behind cheaply made vehicles when they get too damaged, instead of hauling back an expensive [=HERC=] for repairs.
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