History Main / ViolenceReallyIstheAnswer

28th Aug '17 7:20:23 PM themisterfree
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** ''WesternAnimation/{{Animaniacs}}'' did this in the episode ''Bully for Skippy''. Slappy Squirrel's nephew is being horribly bullied at school, and his counselor keeps suggesting all the "solutions" RealLife counselors give: ignore the bully, try to befriend them, inform the bully that they've hurt your feelings, etc. Skippy just gets beat up worse and worse until he teams up with Aunt Slappy and breaks out the Cartoon Violence and dynamite... which oddly reforms the bully into a good citizen.

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** * ''WesternAnimation/{{Animaniacs}}'' did this in the episode ''Bully for Skippy''. Slappy Squirrel's nephew is being horribly bullied at school, and his counselor keeps suggesting all the "solutions" RealLife counselors give: ignore the bully, try to befriend them, inform the bully that they've hurt your feelings, etc. Skippy just gets beat up worse and worse until he teams up with Aunt Slappy and breaks out the Cartoon Violence and dynamite... which oddly reforms the bully into a good citizen.


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** That episode was also a TakeThat towards MoralGuardians and the FCC's then newly-instituted E/I laws (one of the killers of Saturday Mornings); throughout the episode, both the aforementioned counselor and [[NoCelebritiesWereHarmed FCC chairman Reef Blunt]] try to rein in Slappy's predilection for violence, and they send her a machine that eliminates violence, and she spends most of the episode setting it up. It turns out to be a machine that makes all cartoon violence happen offscreen- and of course, the counselor and Blunt are subjected to it.
28th Jul '17 2:10:41 PM xcountryguy
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** The movie ''Film/BatmanBegins'' presents an example where he has no choice, as his mentor turned enemy explicitly states that he feels no gratitude that Bruce previously saved his life and vows to kill Bruce if he doesn't join his cause. Ultimately, the movie flirts with TheDogShotFirst, since Batman doesn't kill the villain but rather [[SaveTheVillain declines to save him]], which is still at odds with Batman's code of ethics, at least the one established in the comics (especially as it was Batman's plan to stop the train that put the villain in a position which threatened his life). Of course, he was just starting out. It should also be noted that the villain was likely capable of saving himself, if he so wanted to. He seems to have solidified his moral code by the time of ''Film/TheDarkKnight''--when [[spoiler:the [[ChekhovsGun spring-loaded razors on his gauntlets]] cut the Joker and causes him to fall off the building, he still catches him]]. It could also be argued that [[spoiler:since he survived the fall, he might not have expected Dent to die when he prevented him from killing Gordon's son]]. [[spoiler: Batman can be excused for Dent's death, considering he was exhausted and shot, he only tackled Dent off the ledge to save a small child, and there really wasn't any way for him to know that there would be a fall that would kill Dent. Dent's death was an accident that Bruce can't really be held accountable for.]]

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** The movie ''Film/BatmanBegins'' presents an example where he has no choice, as his mentor turned enemy explicitly states that he feels no gratitude that Bruce previously saved his life and vows to kill Bruce if he doesn't join his cause. Ultimately, the movie flirts with TheDogShotFirst, since Batman doesn't kill the villain but rather [[SaveTheVillain declines to save him]], which is still at odds with Batman's code of ethics, at least the one established in the comics (especially as it was Batman's plan to stop the train that put the villain in a position which threatened his life). Of course, he was just starting out. It should also be noted that the villain was likely capable of saving himself, if he so wanted to. He seems to have solidified his moral code by the time of ''Film/TheDarkKnight''--when [[spoiler:the [[ChekhovsGun spring-loaded razors on his gauntlets]] cut the Joker and causes him to fall off the building, he still catches him]]. It could also be argued that [[spoiler:since he survived the fall, he might not have expected Dent to die when he prevented him from killing Gordon's son]]. [[spoiler: Batman [[spoiler:Batman can be excused for Dent's death, considering he was exhausted and shot, he only tackled Dent off the ledge to save a small child, and there really wasn't any way for him to know that there would be a fall that would kill Dent. Dent's death was an accident that Bruce can't really be held accountable for.]]



* In ''Series/ChinesePaladin'', Elder Shi is seen as a KnightTemplar because of his insistence that nothing will be gained by diplomacy with [[BigBad Bai Yue]]; various characters, including ''[[LadyOfWar the Nanzhao General]]'', take the time to privately advise [[AllLovingHero Ling'er]] differently. Elder Shi is later proved right, and there is a beautiful scene [[spoiler: at his funeral]] where each of the dissenting characters apologizes and pledges to give the battle their all.

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* In ''Series/ChinesePaladin'', Elder Shi is seen as a KnightTemplar because of his insistence that nothing will be gained by diplomacy with [[BigBad Bai Yue]]; various characters, including ''[[LadyOfWar the Nanzhao General]]'', take the time to privately advise [[AllLovingHero Ling'er]] differently. Elder Shi is later proved right, and there is a beautiful scene [[spoiler: at [[spoiler:at his funeral]] where each of the dissenting characters apologizes and pledges to give the battle their all.



* ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' zig-zagged this in the last few episodes: [[MartialPacifist Aang]] speaks with his past lives and each one tells him, indirectly, that killing Ozai is justified--even a fellow monk pacifist tells him that as Avatar, the well-being of the people supersedes his own spiritual needs. Then Aang goes into the Avatar State, beats the ever living snot out of Ozai, and [[TechnicalPacifist refuses to complete the finishing move.]] THEN [[spoiler: Aang uses [[NewPowersAsThePlotDemands energy bending]] to save the day without killing]].

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* ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'' zig-zagged this in the last few episodes: [[MartialPacifist Aang]] speaks with his past lives and each one tells him, indirectly, that killing Ozai is justified--even a fellow monk pacifist tells him that as Avatar, the well-being of the people supersedes his own spiritual needs. Then Aang goes into the Avatar State, beats the ever living snot out of Ozai, and [[TechnicalPacifist refuses to complete the finishing move.]] THEN [[spoiler: Aang [[spoiler:Aang uses [[NewPowersAsThePlotDemands energy bending]] to save the day without killing]].
25th Jul '17 3:51:39 PM Nerrin
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* Sorey spends ''VideoGame/TalesOfZestiria'' as a TechnicalPacifist, using his power to beat hellions down and purge the malevolence that had transformed them, but refusing to kill. He is forced to question whether his unwillingness to kill is really the best way, especially when he has party members who will finish enemies off, even right in front of him. It's not really whether he's right or wrong, though, but whether the strength of his convictions is firm enough to handle the day he ''has to'' kill someone - particularly the [[BigBad Lord of Calamity]] - without shaking him so much that it lets malevolence infect him. [[spoiler:Sorey ultimately kills the Lord of Calamity without falling to malevolence, doing it because he understands there truly is no other option and not because he discarded his principles for the sake of revenge.]]
24th Jul '17 12:28:43 AM ex_ottoyuhr
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** ''VideoGame/CastlevaniaIISimonsQuest'' and ''VideoGame/ZeldaIITheAdventureOfLink'' offer a different sort of subversion. The BigBad of the first game is dead, but his followers are [[TheRemnant very much still out there]], [[WoundThatWillNotHeal preventing reconstruction]] while scheming to get their leader back and conquer the world for real this time. Both games also have leveling-up side-scrolling gameplay mechanics, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMy4M3oKBPY gloomy]] yet [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc8gqn6Wo1Y awesome]] music, and understandably bad reputations.
17th Jul '17 8:40:09 PM billybobfred
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* ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance'': In La Cité des Cloches, when Riku asks Esmeralda if Judge Frollo was always [[FantasticRacism an evil bigot]] and and requests to know where he could be located so that he could speak to him, it is subtly implied that Riku intends to try to reason with Frollo, having fallen into the darkness once himself. However, when Riku sees Frollo trying to burn down a villager's home because the inhabitant was suspected of harboring gypsies, he concludes that Frollo is [[MoralEventHorizon beyond saving]] and will have to be stopped by force.

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* ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance'': In La Cité des Cloches, when Riku asks Esmeralda if Judge Frollo was always [[FantasticRacism an evil bigot]] and bigot and requests to know where he could be located so that he could speak to him, it is subtly implied that Riku intends to try to reason with Frollo, having fallen into the darkness once himself. However, when Riku sees Frollo trying to burn down a villager's home because the inhabitant was suspected of harboring gypsies, he concludes that Frollo is [[MoralEventHorizon beyond saving]] and will have to be stopped by force.
12th Jul '17 6:52:40 PM AnotherDuck
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* ''Si vis pacem, para bellum.'' "If you desire peace, prepare for war."
* UsefulNotes/MaoZedong: "Political Power grows out of the barrel of a gun". He should know: his generals fought a four-year Civil War (in which ten million died) for it.



* [[UsefulNotes/AmericanGunPolitics US pro-armament/universal armament activists]] invoke this trope when arguing that ultimately, an armed populace is able to start rebellions or even Civil Wars when a government implements policies that some people do not like. As the Russian Civil War, Chinese Civil War, and Spanish Civil War (kind of, though in this instance it was chiefly the military that rebelled) attest that this literally gives the non-government faction a fighting chance. On the other hand, just because a rebel faction is well-armed doesn't necessarily mean it fights for causes US citizens would consider good (justice, freedom, fairness, democracy, etc).
** The breakdown in governance in some countries in the Middle East indicates that the only way to keep a bunch of armed people in line is the threat of overwhelming force from above.
* A physical attack on one's person may require the use of violence to stop it. This is the founding principle behind self defense or defense of others. If one is under physical attack, there is often no way to reasonably stop them without violence, so the rules against harming or killing others is suspended because it is absolutely necessary.



* Even though certain connections with bullying are now a known fabrication by the media, the Columbine High School Massacre still ''was'' responsible for the gradual enactment of anti-bullying policies and laws.
** People in general who commit mass shootings perceive this trope verbatim. While most kids don't have access to guns and only have suicide as a way out, those who do see the deaths of their tormentors as a bonus in the form of retribution before they themselves go out. No sense of basic security, unable to drop out of school until a certain age, many without an option to change schools, their real purpose of going to school in the first place nullified (unable to maintain grades for college, for one thing), too long to await what might not even be any better a future in college, no fulfillment to eke out, and even if life does get better, they still have to live for years on end with everything that happened to them for all those years. These people are beyond any influence of the law and ethics; prison would seem trivial, since they have little to lose in the first place, whatever rules they had abided by had failed them ''chronically'', few had helped them in any meaningful way, there was little they themselves could do to change anything peacefully, and in their minds, even "innocent" people deserve to die for doing so little about their situation. Can you really blame them for seeing the most to gain through their rampages?
12th Jul '17 4:52:37 PM Gosicrystal
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* There're some bosses in the pacifist route of UnderTale where violence is simply your only option to continue. However, this doesn't mean you can't spare them or show mercy.
* VideoGame/MegaManX had always tried to be a pacifist, but he quickly concluded (or at least, decided before the first game) that fighting was necessary to bring about peace, to the point that he states that he is not afraid to fight [[spoiler:his best friend Zero to stop him from getting corrupted in ''X5'', and his enemy Sigma if he keeps showing up to stop the reconstruction of the world in ''X6''.]] Then he suddenly made a decision to become an ActualPacifist in ''X7'', and players were [[ReplacementScrappy given Axl as a result]]) Once you save enough Reploids or beat all 8 Mavericks however, X decides (again), that yes, violence is necessary. [[GameBreaker Then he becomes playable.]]

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* There're some bosses in the pacifist route of UnderTale ''{{VideoGame/Undertale}}'' where violence is simply your only option to continue. However, this doesn't mean you can't spare them or show mercy.
* VideoGame/MegaManX ''VideoGame/MegaManX'' had always tried to be a pacifist, but he quickly concluded (or at least, decided before the first game) that fighting was necessary to bring about peace, to the point that he states that he is not afraid to fight [[spoiler:his best friend Zero to stop him from getting corrupted in ''X5'', and his enemy Sigma if he keeps showing up to stop the reconstruction of the world in ''X6''.]] Then he suddenly made a decision to become an ActualPacifist in ''X7'', and players were [[ReplacementScrappy given Axl as a result]]) Once you save enough Reploids or beat all 8 Mavericks however, X decides (again), that yes, violence is necessary. [[GameBreaker Then he becomes playable.]]
31st May '17 6:23:16 PM nombretomado
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* In ''TheYoungOnes'', Vyvyan argues [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality that violence is a necessity to create interesting stories]] when it comes to action narratives. He points out how incredibly boring ''ComicStrip/DanDare'' and ''Franchise/{{Batman}}'' comics would be if the heroes never threw any punches, and instead got along well with their [[RoguesGallery Rogues Galleries]].

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* In ''TheYoungOnes'', ''Series/TheYoungOnes'', Vyvyan argues [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality that violence is a necessity to create interesting stories]] when it comes to action narratives. He points out how incredibly boring ''ComicStrip/DanDare'' and ''Franchise/{{Batman}}'' comics would be if the heroes never threw any punches, and instead got along well with their [[RoguesGallery Rogues Galleries]].
7th Mar '17 11:35:07 PM Gairyuki
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** Except, in the original Japanese, he does spare his enemies not out of any sort of actual altruistic mercy, but solely out of their ability to provide him a strong opponent to fight.

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** Except, Not quite, since Goku himself never actually learns that lesson in advance of Cell. He throws the original Japanese, fight, even letting Cell have a Senzu Bean, and sics Gohan on him to draw out the latter's power. By the time he does spare realize that killing Cell is a bigger priority, he's forced to sacrifice himself. And, it should be noted that Goku's primary reason for sparing ANY of his enemies enemies, or at least, having the intention to initially, is because of his overwhelming desire for a strong opponent, not out of any sort of actual altruistic mercy, show of mercy or a desire for them to repent. He does prefer that they be good, but solely that's somewhat drowned out of their ability to provide him a strong opponent to fight.by his BloodKnight tendencies.
7th Mar '17 11:27:28 PM Gairyuki
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** Except, in the original Japanese, he does spare his enemies not out of any sort of actual altruistic mercy, but solely out of their ability to provide him a strong opponent to fight.
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