History Main / VancianMagic

5th Apr '16 11:38:21 PM MaskedAndDangerous
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* Early Series/FinalFantasy games, being heavily inspired by D&D, utilize this to a degree. There are 8 levels of spells, with three slots per level. Classes that are more magically inclined can use the higher level spells, and more importantly get more charges per level. Later releases would replace the charges with MP, which simplifies the system while removing the resource management required.
15th Mar '16 9:04:10 AM OminousBoardOfInvestors
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* ''VideoGame/{{Elona}}'' follows this to the letter. Quite unfortunate considering how easy it is to fail most high-end spells, and how rare their books are.

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* ''VideoGame/{{Elona}}'' Elona follows this to the letter. Quite unfortunate considering how easy it is to fail most high-end spells, letter, and how rare their books are.piles on a ManaMeter, [[MagicMisfire spell failure rates,]] and [[AdamSmithHatesYourGuts extortionate prices]] for [[ResourcesManagementGameplay spellstock-restoring books]] to boot, seeing them as the only way to prevent [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards.]] While it doesn't quite manage to [[Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick deliberately force some kind of arbitrary equality between those of us who can reshape matter with our thoughts and those who cannot,]] it does wedge magic users into a very comfortable spot high up in DifficultButAwesome territory.
20th Feb '16 12:34:39 PM CountDorku
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** [[ReligionIsMagic Clerics and druids]] in third edition have a sort of "virtual Vancian" system. Most spells have to be prepared ahead of time, but they each have one classification of spell that can be cast spontaneously at the expense of a prepared slot of the same level. Clerics can spontaneously use a healing effect like ''cure light wounds'' if good or one of the inverted negative energy effects like ''inflict light wounds'' if evil (neutral ones have to pick one at character creation, although choice of god may influence it - Wee Jas, Greyhawk's lawful neutral goddess of necromancy and love, typically grants spontaneous inflict spells, for example), while all druids regardless of alignment have the power to ''summon nature's ally'' at the appropriate level.



* In ''Webcomic/EightBitTheater'', Black Mage started being able to use the Level 9 [[KamehameHadoken Hadoken]] once per day, [[CripplingOverspecialization and nothing else.]] Or at least, [[TheAllSolvingHammer nothing else he's in the mood to use]], as "not-level 9 spells aren't [his] idiom".

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* In ''Webcomic/EightBitTheater'', Black Mage started being able to use the Level 9 [[KamehameHadoken Hadoken]] once per day, [[CripplingOverspecialization and nothing else.]] Or at least, [[TheAllSolvingHammer nothing else he's in the mood to use]], as "not-level 9 spells aren't [his] idiom". Later on, his CharacterDevelopment means he ''does'' start filling his lower-level spell slots with fiery death...only to use them, if anything, even more irresponsibly than his level 9 spells.
-->'''Red Mage:''' We're doomed to an icy, uh, doom.\\
'''Thief:''' That sentence kinda got away from you.\\
'''RM:''' Our only hope is that Black Mage catches up to us soon! And that he hasn't squandered all of his fire magic on completely frivolous targets.\\
'''[[DescriptionCut Black Mage]]:''' [casts fire spell] Dah! More bats! Burn! [casts fire spell] Argh, a fly! [casts fire spell] Some dirt!
28th Jan '16 12:02:31 AM Terabiel
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** This is a common mistake, where people tend to default to D&D because it is the most popular fantasy RPG. Guardians isn't based on D&D, but rather on a somewhat more obscure system called "Runequest." One of the key traits that demonstrates Guardian's use of the Runequest system is that skills (including attacking and spellcasting) are leveled by using them.
24th Jan '16 1:23:49 AM GaidinBDJ
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** 5th Edition has reached a bit of a middle ground for spell-preparing casters. Now, they prepare a certain number of spells equal to (spellcasting ability modifier + caster level), but they don't assign those spells to specific slots--indeed, the number of prepared spells and the number of available slots may not even match up. They can cast any of their prepared spells as often as they want, so long as they have an unspent slot of the spell's level or higher.[[note]]EXAMPLE: A wizard who has prepared Alter Self, Invisibility, and Levitate, and has 4 level 1 slots (and no higher-level slots) can cast each of them once and one of them a second time, or cast two spells twice, or one spell once and one spell thrice, or one spell four times. The wizard doesn't decide how many times each spell will be cast when s/he prepares them; s/he decides which spell goes in a slot when s/he casts.[[/note]]

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** 5th Edition has reached a bit of a middle ground for spell-preparing casters. Now, they prepare moved away from static spell slots. In 5th Edition, spell-casing classes can "prepare" (i.e. memorize) a certain number of spells equal to (spellcasting ability modifier + caster level), but they don't assign those spells to specific slots--indeed, the number of prepared spells and the number of available spells. They then get spell slots may not even match up. each level (for example, a 5th level Wizard has four 1st level slots, three 2nd level slots, and two 3rd level slots). They can use those slots to cast any of their prepared spells as often as which "uses up" that slot for the day. They can cast their prepared spells in any combination they want, so wish as long as they have an unspent a slot of equal to or higher than the spell's level or higher.[[note]]EXAMPLE: A wizard who has level. In addition, some spell-casting classes have "level 0 cantrips" that they can cast at will once they learn them without using spell slots at all. The cantrips include minor effects (creating a light, minor telekinesis, simple illusions, etc.) as well as direct damage spells.
*** The Dungeon Master's Guide for 5e contains an alternate set of rules for casting that removes spell slots entirely and replaces them with general spell point pool the
prepared Alter Self, Invisibility, and Levitate, and has 4 level 1 slots (and no higher-level slots) can cast each of them once and one of them a second time, or cast two spells twice, or one spell once and one spell thrice, or one spell four times. The wizard doesn't decide how many times each spell will can be cast when s/he prepares them; s/he decides which spell goes in a slot when s/he casts.[[/note]]from.
18th Jan '16 12:57:50 PM Underachiever
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Naturally, this approach to magic is a lot more common in non-interactive media (where it's easy for the creators to match the character's spell selection to the later needs of the plot) than it is in video games, which, while often inspired by VancianMagic, stretch its rules quite a bit since demanding a lot of magic preparation in a game could easily become annoying and/or create pacing issues. As such, most games that involve magic base its rules around the much simpler ManaMeter. Or sometimes a mix, you may only be able to "equip" a certain number of spells for any given level, but use them as often as you can afford the cost.

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Naturally, this approach to magic is a lot more common in non-interactive media (where it's of course easy for the creators to match the character's spell selection -- when it's even explicitly shown -- to the later needs of the plot) than it is in video games, which, while often inspired by VancianMagic, stretch its rules quite a bit since demanding a lot of magic preparation in a game could easily become annoying and/or create pacing issues. As such, most games that involve magic base its rules around the much simpler ManaMeter. Or sometimes a mix, you may only be able to "equip" a certain number of spells for any given level, but use them as often as you can afford the cost.
18th Jan '16 12:56:41 PM Underachiever
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Naturally, this approach to magic is a lot more common in non-interactive media than it is in video games, which, while often inspired by VancianMagic, stretch its rules quite a bit since demanding a lot of magic preparation in a game could easily become annoying and/or create pacing issues. As such, most games that involve magic base its rules around the much simpler ManaMeter. Or sometimes a mix, you may only be able to "equip" a certain number of spells for any given level, but use them as often as you can afford the cost.

to:

Naturally, this approach to magic is a lot more common in non-interactive media (where it's easy for the creators to match the character's spell selection to the later needs of the plot) than it is in video games, which, while often inspired by VancianMagic, stretch its rules quite a bit since demanding a lot of magic preparation in a game could easily become annoying and/or create pacing issues. As such, most games that involve magic base its rules around the much simpler ManaMeter. Or sometimes a mix, you may only be able to "equip" a certain number of spells for any given level, but use them as often as you can afford the cost.
4th Jan '16 5:56:26 AM SeptimusHeap
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* ''Webcomic/RustyAndCo'': Another ''D&D'' parody. Lampshaded with a "VANCE!" UnsoundEffect for a Color Spray spell. Prestige underscores the problem late in the level when she lets loose a {{Fireball}}, resulting in the page-image seen above.

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* ''Webcomic/RustyAndCo'': Another ''D&D'' parody. Lampshaded with a "VANCE!" UnsoundEffect for a Color Spray spell. Prestige underscores the problem late in the level when she lets loose a {{Fireball}}, {{Fireball|s}}, resulting in the page-image seen above.
25th Sep '15 3:19:36 PM CaptainCrawdad
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** In 3rd Edition, a spell's effects can be fine-tuned with "metamagic feats", and sorcerers, a separate class from wizards, don't have to prepare spells ([[CompetitiveBalance but can only know a very limited number of them]]).
*** 3rd Edition also changed the default in-story explanation from "forget the spell when cast"(as mentioned with Dragonlance Chronicles, also used by Vance himself and mocked by Pratchett) to "finish a nearly completed ritual", more akin to the Amber example.
** The Warlock class, as it appeared in 3.5e's ''CompleteArcane,'' was completely non-vancian. Warlocks can cast Invocations ''at will'', an unlimited number of times per day, without penalty. However, unless you go epic or invest in feats, [[CompetitiveBalance you can only learn 12]]. In addition, the list of invocations is far smaller than the list of available spells. Oh, and something spooky owns your soul.

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** In 3rd Edition, a spell's effects can be fine-tuned with "metamagic feats", and feats"
** 3rd edition introduce
sorcerers, a separate class from wizards, who don't have to prepare spells ([[CompetitiveBalance spells, [[CompetitiveBalance but can only know a very limited number of them]]).
*** 3rd Edition also changed the default in-story explanation from "forget the spell when cast"(as mentioned with Dragonlance Chronicles, also used by Vance himself and mocked by Pratchett) to "finish a nearly completed ritual", more akin to the Amber example.
them]].
** The Warlock class, as it appeared in 3.5e's ''CompleteArcane,'' was completely non-vancian. Warlocks can cast Invocations ''at will'', an unlimited number of times per day, without penalty. However, unless you go epic or invest in feats, [[CompetitiveBalance you can only learn 12]]. In addition, the list of invocations is far smaller than the list of available spells. Oh, and something spooky owns your soul.



** Many of the late 3.5e variant mechanics, from the Warlock on, were playtests for a new system to appear in 4e. The 3.5e ''Book of Nine Swords'' moved Vancian encounter powers onto non-magical characters, and at least 4E arrived which ironically both weakened and strengthened Vancian rules.
** 4th Edition gave characters of every class, magic or not, "at-will powers," similar to the 3.5e Warlock's invocations, that can be used as much as a character wants with no penalty. At the same time, the new edition gave ''every character class'' Vancian abilities, from Cleric prayers to Fighter exploits. The encounter power mechanic sort of splits the difference between Vancian powers and at-will one by having the encounter powers only refresh after a brief rest. The game still uses the Daily Power mechanic though; like the other two mechanics, it is used with every class (a point of contention amongst some fans Fighters and Rangers who forget their best exploits after using them but one that has been elaborated on and explained as the edition has advanced with new books such as ''Martial Power 2'').

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** Many of the late 3.5e variant mechanics, from the Warlock on, were playtests for a new system to appear in 4e. The 3.5e ''Book of Nine Swords'' moved Vancian encounter powers onto non-magical characters, and at least 4E arrived which ironically both weakened and strengthened Vancian rules.
** 4th Edition gave characters of every class, magic or not, "at-will powers," similar to the 3.5e Warlock's invocations, that can be used as much often as a character wants with no penalty.player likes. At the same time, the new edition gave ''every character class'' Vancian abilities, from Cleric prayers to Fighter exploits. The encounter power "encounter power" mechanic sort of splits the difference between Vancian powers and at-will one by having the encounter powers only refresh after a brief rest. The game still uses the Daily Power mechanic though; like the other two mechanics, it is "daily power" can only be used with every class (a point of contention amongst some fans Fighters and Rangers who forget their best exploits after using them but one that has been elaborated on and explained as the edition has advanced with new books such as ''Martial Power 2'').once per day.



** However, retained for ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'', save for bards and sorcerers of course.

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** However, retained Retained for ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'', save for bards and sorcerers of course.
7th Sep '15 5:33:48 AM jormis29
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Also, the whole idea of spells taking so much energy to prepare is now sometimes being passed with "well, it was the least competent wizard in the world claiming that". (This was in ''{{GURPS}} Discworld'', probably.)

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Also, the whole idea of spells taking so much energy to prepare is now sometimes being passed with "well, it was the least competent wizard in the world claiming that". (This was in ''{{GURPS}} Discworld'', ''[[TabletopGame/DiscworldRolePlayingGame GURPS Discworld]]'', probably.)
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