History Main / UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans

26th May '16 4:12:27 PM Moonstreak
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It's a place built out of dreams and starlight; the name "{{Utopia}}" is a somewhat poignant pun by its author, blending the Greek words for Good Place (eutopia) and "No Place" (outopia), and despite (or perhaps because of) its unattainable nature, it has endured in myth and dreams since. While dreaming about what it would be like is harmless (like how [[FanService topless glamour model volleyball]] would be the national sport, [[CoolAndUnusualPunishment bureaucrats would work recycling paper]], there's NoPoverty and ice cream is [[AppliedPhlebotinum just as delicious with none of the calories]]...mmmm...), it's just a dream based on nothing more solid than wishful thinking.

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It's a place built out of dreams and starlight; the name "{{Utopia}}" is a somewhat poignant pun by its author, blending the Greek words for Good Place (eutopia) and "No Place" (outopia), and despite (or perhaps because of) its unattainable nature, it has endured in myth and dreams since. While dreaming about what it would be like is harmless (like how [[FanService topless glamour model volleyball]] would be the national sport, [[CoolAndUnusualPunishment bureaucrats would work recycling paper]], there's NoPoverty and ice cream is [[AppliedPhlebotinum just as delicious with none of the calories]]... mmmm...), it's just a dream based on nothing more solid than wishful thinking.
23rd May '16 2:33:46 PM ChaoticNovelist
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*''Literature/JourneyToChaos'': [[spoiler: Nunnal Enaz wants to cure mana mutation victims, mend the relations between elves and mortals, put an end to the elven slave trade, weaken Order's power in Tariatla and make sure Order can never ever threaten her home village. To do this, she risks the safety of her home village, the freedom of her family, and her own life on TheBet with Order.]]



* The One Ring in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' offers everyone who comes near it a vision of a world bowing to them as a great and mighty lord (not necessarily an Utopian though). Most hobbits are able to resist its effects solely [[WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway due to their humility]]. Admittedly, if you were smaller than even your average ''dwarf'', you would probably find it hard to see yourself as some kind of Evil Overlord as well. And even then the extent of the Ring's influence varies from Hobbit to Hobbit...

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* The One Ring in ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' offers everyone who comes near it a vision of a world bowing to them as a great and mighty lord (not necessarily an Utopian though). Utopian). Most hobbits are able to resist its effects solely [[WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway [[HumbleHero due to their humility]]. Admittedly, if you were smaller than even your average ''dwarf'', you would probably find it hard to see yourself as some kind of Evil Overlord as well. And even then the extent of the Ring's influence varies from Hobbit to Hobbit...
12th May '16 9:35:06 AM Morgenthaler
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* TheKnightsTemplar in ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedI'' and ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIII'' plan to [[spoiler:control the world using LostTechnology from [[{{Precursors}} Those Who Came Before]]. Vidic, lamenting how people in [[UsefulNotes/TheCrusades 1191]] are no different in manner from the people of [[TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture 2012]], says that the world needs a sense of order, [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill even if it means giving up freedom]].]]

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* TheKnightsTemplar UsefulNotes/TheKnightsTemplar in ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedI'' and ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIII'' plan to [[spoiler:control the world using LostTechnology from [[{{Precursors}} Those Who Came Before]]. Vidic, lamenting how people in [[UsefulNotes/TheCrusades 1191]] are no different in manner from the people of [[TwentyMinutesIntoTheFuture 2012]], says that the world needs a sense of order, [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill even if it means giving up freedom]].]]
10th May '16 4:29:37 AM M84
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* In ''Comicbook/{{Invincible}}'', [[spoiler:Robot]] decides that the best and ''only'' way to establish peace and prosperity on Earth [[spoiler:is to kill everyone who might oppose him -- preemptively. Which includes most of his ''own fellow superheroes''.]] The worst part is that [[spoiler:he succeeds, and everyone else more or less goes along with him after he wins since fighting him would just cause even more senseless death and destruction.]]
5th May '16 10:11:59 PM TSBasilisk
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* Literature/{{Worm}}'s [[spoiler: protagonist has mostly arrived at this view, [[TheInfiltration deci]][[BecomingTheMask ding]] to join up with other villains since the heroes have failed to impress her.]]
** Ironically, [[spoiler: The world's greatest heroes feel the same about their crimes against humanity.]]

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* Literature/{{Worm}}'s [[spoiler: protagonist has mostly eventually arrived at this view, [[TheInfiltration deci]][[BecomingTheMask ding]] to join up with other villains since the heroes have failed to impress her.]]
her.
** Ironically, [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:Cauldron and the world's greatest heroes heroes]] feel the same about their crimes against humanity.]]humanity.
** Coil believed he could rebuild Brockton Bay and establish a new paradigm in the balance of villain and heroes. To do so he took many unsavory actions, especially [[spoiler:kidnapping and drugging Dinah]].
7th Apr '16 1:01:39 PM Love777
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* In ''Fanfic/PonyPOV'' Princess [[spoiler:Gaia/Nightmare Whisper]] is an interesting example of this. She wants everyone to be happy (what with being [[spoiler:Fluttershy]]), and while she's not as extreme as many other examples of the trope, she does think that anyone who isn't happy must be FORCED to be happy, and that in order to achieve this goal, [[spoiler:[[BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood magically turning ponies into foals in both body and mind]] ]]is a-ok! In an even straighter example of this trope, her Knight [[spoiler:Cherilee]] actually attempts to KILL the Mane Six because they were distrupting [[spoiler:Gaia's LotusEaterMachine]].
5th Apr '16 10:28:33 PM TheGreatSkrond
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* ''Literature/{{Fahrenheit 451}}'' is a classic example, where a ''utopia'' is created by [[spoiler:banning books, funerals, weddings, and anything that causes an emotional reaction]].
3rd Mar '16 10:15:45 AM Morgenthaler
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* Some comics suggest (and, in at least one case, demonstrate) that allowing Doctor Doom to conquer the Earth will result in a utopia. Doom's a despot and a tyrant at the best of times, and another consequence of Dr. Doom taking over the Earth is the complete eradication of any kind of free will and immediate and total subservience to Doom's wishes, so this may not be as great as it seems.
** There's also the problem that he tends to get ''bored'' with utopia, as he's the sort that would rather be ''conquering'' than reigning over what he has.

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* ''ComicBook/TheFantasticFour'': Some comics suggest (and, in at least one case, demonstrate) that allowing Doctor Doom to conquer the Earth will result in a utopia. Doom's a despot and a tyrant at the best of times, and another consequence of Dr. Doom taking over the Earth is the complete eradication of any kind of free will and immediate and total subservience to Doom's wishes, so this may not be as great as it seems.
**
seems. There's also the problem that he tends to get ''bored'' with utopia, as he's the sort that would rather be ''conquering'' than reigning over what he has.
1st Mar '16 9:47:57 PM SoapheadChurch
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** Also, in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedDestiny'', Gilbert Durandal's plan was to create a society completely ruled by genetic determinism, where everyone would be forced to the endeavors for which he/she was genetically apt at. And if someone has to be sacrificed and some countries have to be destroyed with a WaveMotionGun...well, it's sad but necessary to create a world without war and without pain. Fan opinions remain [[InternetBackdraft divided]] on whether he was in the right or not.
*** The Chairman's Dragon, Rey Za Burrel, has this same mindset, and follows the Chairman because he believes that he will usher in the utopia. In the end, Rey has second thoughts about this after Kira convinces him that [[ClonesArePeopleToo he is his own man and not just a clone.]] [[spoiler:Rey chooses Kira's hope for a future with freedom over the Destiny Plan and guns down Durandal to save Kira.]]
*** Genetic determinism in a world where a good chunk of the population are genetically-enhanced humans [[FridgeLogic really means]] that the Coordinators are genetically-inclined towards having the good jobs (i.e. those requiring advanced skills/reflexes/intelligence like mobile suit pilots or technicians) and normal humans are more genetically-inclined to manual labor. Some utopia.
*** It was case of communistic/socialistic thinking. We determine what you can do by your genes, we educate you on how to use your talents, and we give you jobs that perfectly suit you, so the whole society can run perfectly, and that's better for you than the broken system where no one knows what they are supposed to do and waste their potential, or even doesn't have anything to do. In basic theory, it isn't evil, and is only wrong in practice because, as side effect, it would eliminate people's initiative to improve themselves and give opportunity to corruption by falsifying test results, which would, in the end, break the system.
*** It's the "determine what you can do by your genes" part that's the whole problem; Coordinators ''by default'' are going to be better-suited for high-paying jobs that require advanced technical skills because their genetic enhancements make them better-suited for those positions than ordinary humans. The system is inherently skewed in favor of those with genetic enhancements.
*** The writers probably wanted to show that the main flaw of such a society would be a loss of freedom, thus making a dilemma of freedom vs. peace.
*** The point of the Destiny Plan is not to give anyone, even Coordinators, an unfair advantage and to make sure everyone was happy in their jobs. In fact, going by vague descriptions from Durandal and Rey, the idea is to end Natural/Coordinator conflict by determining what would fit them regardless of better genetics, since everyone would get a fair chance, thus making sure they are happy in theory. The idea that it can be used as such is clearly not what Durandal has in mind, but it does bring up a good flaw in how it can be used as such if it was implemented by the radicals of both sides. As for the main flaw concerning freedom, this really is the driving theme of the series. Should you be predestined to be something or have the freedom to do what you want?

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** Also, in * In ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedDestiny'', Gilbert Durandal's plan was to create a society completely ruled by genetic determinism, where everyone would be forced to the endeavors for which he/she was genetically apt at. And if someone has to be sacrificed and some countries have to be destroyed with a WaveMotionGun...well, it's sad but necessary to create a world without war and without pain. Fan opinions remain [[InternetBackdraft divided]] on whether he was in the right or not.
***
not. The Chairman's Dragon, Rey Za Burrel, has this same mindset, and follows the Chairman because he believes that he will usher in the utopia. In the end, Rey has second thoughts about this after Kira convinces him that [[ClonesArePeopleToo he is his own man and not just a clone.]] [[spoiler:Rey chooses Kira's hope for a future with freedom over the Destiny Plan and guns down Durandal to save Kira.]]
*** Genetic determinism in a world where a good chunk of the population are genetically-enhanced humans [[FridgeLogic really means]] that the Coordinators are genetically-inclined towards having the good jobs (i.e. those requiring advanced skills/reflexes/intelligence like mobile suit pilots or technicians) and normal humans are more genetically-inclined to manual labor. Some utopia.
*** It was case of communistic/socialistic thinking. We determine what you can do by your genes, we educate you on how to use your talents, and we give you jobs that perfectly suit you, so the whole society can run perfectly, and that's better for you than the broken system where no one knows what they are supposed to do and waste their potential, or even doesn't have anything to do. In basic theory, it isn't evil, and is only wrong in practice because, as side effect, it would eliminate people's initiative to improve themselves and give opportunity to corruption by falsifying test results, which would, in the end, break the system.
*** It's the "determine what you can do by your genes" part that's the whole problem; Coordinators ''by default'' are going to be better-suited for high-paying jobs that require advanced technical skills because their genetic enhancements make them better-suited for those positions than ordinary humans. The system is inherently skewed in favor of those with genetic enhancements.
*** The writers probably wanted to show that the main flaw of such a society would be a loss of freedom, thus making a dilemma of freedom vs. peace.
*** The point of the Destiny Plan is not to give anyone, even Coordinators, an unfair advantage and to make sure everyone was happy in their jobs. In fact, going by vague descriptions from Durandal and Rey, the idea is to end Natural/Coordinator conflict by determining what would fit them regardless of better genetics, since everyone would get a fair chance, thus making sure they are happy in theory. The idea that it can be used as such is clearly not what Durandal has in mind, but it does bring up a good flaw in how it can be used as such if it was implemented by the radicals of both sides. As for the main flaw concerning freedom, this really is the driving theme of the series. Should you be predestined to be something or have the freedom to do what you want?
]]
1st Mar '16 6:55:23 PM MagBas
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* ''Literature/TheTurnerDiaries'' (written by a Neo Nazi) has protagonists who want to take what they consider a CrapsackWorld (one with private ownership of guns outlawed, minorities having rights and "oppressing" the pure, white people), and they plan to replace that [[VillainWorld with a world that has everyone but the white people dead and the only survivors will be fanatical white supremacists]], but only after [[CrapsackWorld they use nuclear, chemical and biological weapons to kill everyone else they don't like, even if it means rendering most of the world uninhabitable.]]
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